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Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by Eric Lenio <mo...@lenio.net> on 2004/08/10 15:56:01 UTC
advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
I'm about to start work on a web application which will collect information
from the user and return a document based on that information.
I'm trying to point out the advantages of mod_perl over a solution based on
Java servlet technology to my client. Can anyone provide any quick links/
information to help me out?
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by "Randal L. Schwartz" <me...@stonehenge.com>.
>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Lenio <mo...@lenio.net> writes:
Eric> I'm trying to point out the advantages of mod_perl over a
Eric> solution based on Java servlet technology to my client. Can
Eric> anyone provide any quick links/ information to help me out?
Well, well-designed mod_perl as a technology is similar to JSP as a
technology, in terms of keeping the algorithms buried inside an Apache
process for rapid access.
However, the real advantage is that you get to program in Perl
rather than Java. :)
Seriously, Perl means more actions with fewer lines of code (Perl
density versus Java density), true open source (if it breaks
*anywhere* you can fix it or pay someone to fix it), and you get
access to the CPAN.
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Torsten Foertsch wrote:
> A few years ago I was in a similar situation. I was working for a big company
> (~500.000 employees) and someone from the upper management had 'decided' that
> java was the best tool for all purposes. Then some department had startet a
> new project and of cource tried to implement it in java using jsp. After 6
> weeks of more or less resultless effort the lower management decided to try a
> competing approach. To my luck the manager had had some positive experience
> with perl. He hired me and a fellow programmer gave us 2 weeks time to create
> something to show. After that time the java project was canceled and after
> another 2 weeks we had created a working system where all the basic
> requirements were implemented.
>
> As for scalability I am running mod_perl-enhanced apaches on a web server farm
> consisting of 5 machines making 500.000 visits, 2.000.000 page impressions or
> 18.000.000 hits a day. Every request on these machines is touched by
> mod_perl. And the system would run without noticable performance degradation
> even with only 3 of the machines running.
Torsten, care to reword these bits into a success story, which can be
hosted here? http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/index.html
See the URL above for the desired format... Thanks.
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Torsten Foertsch <to...@gmx.net>.
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Hash: SHA1
On Tuesday 10 August 2004 21:28, Eric Lenio wrote:
> the reason I'm asking is because the client is really more attuned to the
> java hype/buzzwords that exists out there. having done just a smattering
> of java, I am somewhat at a loss as to tell them exactly why a perl
> solution is better. this client does already have some investment in java,
> but no perl, so it is probably more palatable to management to continue to
> invest in java.
>
> the client is also quite concerned with scalability, but I am confident
> that mod_perl will scale extremely well.
A few years ago I was in a similar situation. I was working for a big company
(~500.000 employees) and someone from the upper management had 'decided' that
java was the best tool for all purposes. Then some department had startet a
new project and of cource tried to implement it in java using jsp. After 6
weeks of more or less resultless effort the lower management decided to try a
competing approach. To my luck the manager had had some positive experience
with perl. He hired me and a fellow programmer gave us 2 weeks time to create
something to show. After that time the java project was canceled and after
another 2 weeks we had created a working system where all the basic
requirements were implemented.
As for scalability I am running mod_perl-enhanced apaches on a web server farm
consisting of 5 machines making 500.000 visits, 2.000.000 page impressions or
18.000.000 hits a day. Every request on these machines is touched by
mod_perl. And the system would run without noticable performance degradation
even with only 3 of the machines running.
Torsten
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
harm wrote:
> Is there some documentation about Amazon and Perl somewhere?
http://masonhq.com/?AmazonDotCom
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Jim Martinez <jj...@bigbigorg.org>.
On Aug 11 harm wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 04:33:07PM -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 16:24, Xavier Noria wrote:
> > > I am confident too, Slashdot runs on Perl for instance
> >
> > Slashdot, although of great interest to techies like us, is tiny.
> > Amazon runs on Perl.
>
> Is there some documentation about Amazon and Perl somewhere?
>
> Thanks,
> Harmen
>
> > Yahoo runs a lot of Perl. Ticketmaster is all mod_perl.
>
Why is there no mention of Ticketmaster on the mod perl success stories
page?
http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/index.html
Just wondering,
Jim
> > IMDB is Perl. All of these get tons more traffic than
> > Slashdot.
> >
> > - Perrin
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by harm <ha...@tty.nl>.
On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 04:33:07PM -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 16:24, Xavier Noria wrote:
> > I am confident too, Slashdot runs on Perl for instance
>
> Slashdot, although of great interest to techies like us, is tiny.
> Amazon runs on Perl.
Is there some documentation about Amazon and Perl somewhere?
Thanks,
Harmen
> Yahoo runs a lot of Perl. Ticketmaster is all
> mod_perl. IMDB is Perl. All of these get tons more traffic than
> Slashdot.
>
> - Perrin
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 16:24, Xavier Noria wrote:
> I am confident too, Slashdot runs on Perl for instance
Slashdot, although of great interest to techies like us, is tiny.
Amazon runs on Perl. Yahoo runs a lot of Perl. Ticketmaster is all
mod_perl. IMDB is Perl. All of these get tons more traffic than
Slashdot.
- Perrin
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Xavier Noria <fx...@hashref.com>.
On Aug 10, 2004, at 21:28, Eric Lenio wrote:
> the reason I'm asking is because the client is really more attuned to
> the java
> hype/buzzwords that exists out there. having done just a smattering
> of java, I
> am somewhat at a loss as to tell them exactly why a perl solution is
> better.
> this client does already have some investment in java, but no perl, so
> it is
> probably more palatable to management to continue to invest in java.
Looks like the typical set of advantages we Perl coders find valuable
might not be of interest to your client. Because he does not have to
write the application, and has staff and preferences for Java.
He probably doesn't care much about CPAN for this particular project,
for instance, perhaps he just wants an application that fulfills the
requeriments and they can maintain. You are the best person to judge
that.
Since one of the key advantages of Perl is speed in development, if the
project is paid by hours perhaps you could offer a cheaper price for
the Perl implementation than for the Java implementation. That could
interest to him maybe.
Writing what you described in CGI.pm under Apache::Registry with TT2
looks way more quick and bug-free than writing it in Java/JSP provided
you are equally fluent in both.
But if you still would like to convince your client, perhaps you could
borrow some ideas from this paper:
Dynamic Languages: Ready for the Next Challenges, By Design
http://www.activestate.com/Company/NewsRoom/whitepapers_ADL.plex
> the client is also quite concerned with scalability, but I am confident
> that mod_perl will scale extremely well.
I am confident too, Slashdot runs on Perl for instance, but have no
personal experience in heavily loaded websites.
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Eric Lenio <mo...@lenio.net>.
the reason I'm asking is because the client is really more attuned to the java
hype/buzzwords that exists out there. having done just a smattering of java, I
am somewhat at a loss as to tell them exactly why a perl solution is better.
this client does already have some investment in java, but no perl, so it is
probably more palatable to management to continue to invest in java.
the client is also quite concerned with scalability, but I am confident
that mod_perl will scale extremely well.
On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 09:19:17PM +0200, Xavier Noria wrote:
>
> Errr... I asked those questions because it is difficult to answer that
> without more context. When you need to choose a technology several
> variables matter.
>
> For instance, if you are working as a freelance for a Java-based
> company that will maintain that software afterwards that makes a
> difference. If the client is buzzwords inclined or has prejudices
> against open source that matters. If you are the developer offering a
> service in ASP mode then you can choose the development tools based on
> your preferences. You see, there are no absolute advantages (insert a
> Perl versus Java joke here).
>
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Xavier Noria <fx...@hashref.com>.
On Aug 10, 2004, at 19:12, Xavier Noria wrote:
> On Aug 10, 2004, at 15:56, Eric Lenio wrote:
>
>> I'm about to start work on a web application which will collect
>> information
>> from the user and return a document based on that information.
>>
>> I'm trying to point out the advantages of mod_perl over a solution
>> based on
>> Java servlet technology to my client. Can anyone provide any quick
>> links/
>> information to help me out?
>
> Which kind of advantages are you looking for? Why does your client
> need to know about the technology you are going to use, and why do you
> need to justify your choice to him?
Errr... I asked those questions because it is difficult to answer that
without more context. When you need to choose a technology several
variables matter.
For instance, if you are working as a freelance for a Java-based
company that will maintain that software afterwards that makes a
difference. If the client is buzzwords inclined or has prejudices
against open source that matters. If you are the developer offering a
service in ASP mode then you can choose the development tools based on
your preferences. You see, there are no absolute advantages (insert a
Perl versus Java joke here).
-- fxn
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Re: advantages of mod_perl over java servlets
Posted by Xavier Noria <fx...@hashref.com>.
On Aug 10, 2004, at 15:56, Eric Lenio wrote:
> I'm about to start work on a web application which will collect
> information
> from the user and return a document based on that information.
>
> I'm trying to point out the advantages of mod_perl over a solution
> based on
> Java servlet technology to my client. Can anyone provide any quick
> links/
> information to help me out?
Which kind of advantages are you looking for? Why does your client need
to know about the technology you are going to use, and why do you need
to justify your choice to him?
-- fxn
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