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Posted to infrastructure-dev@apache.org by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org> on 2009/08/20 09:19:36 UTC
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Wes Wannemacher wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 August 2009 04:39:25 pm Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> today, I saw a mail from a guy who is not an committer, who is looking
>> for a job. As a moderator, I can assure you that I didn't saw the mail
>> before it reached the ML.
>>
>> How possibly this guy could post directly to this ML without being a
>> committer or being moderated ?
>>
>> Poster : luigi.viggiano@gmail.com
>>
>> Mail content :
>>
>>
> [snip]
>
> I'm not a member of the infra team, but I do subscribe to that list as well.
>
> The funny thing for me is that I don't remember finding any policies about the
> jobs@a.o ML. I read the message and found it acceptable, if there are rules
> for that list, are they somewhere that the poster could have found them?
>
I have looked on the Apache web site, and I didn't found any reference
to it. Can't find a lot on the web too.
> I'm not arguing whether he should or should not have posted, I'm just curious
> if there is a policy, where it is and if the poster realized he might have
> broken it.
>
May be I'm defining my own policy about what can be posted on this
mailing list. To me, this is for committers who are looking for a new
job, or for people seeking committers and submit a proposal. Either side
have to be a committer, at some point. Otherwise, Monster.com is
probably the place to post.
But I may be totally wrong, and I'd like to know what is the exact
policy for this mailing list. All in all, as a moderator, that could help :)
Anyone ?
--
--
cordialement, regards,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
directory.apache.org
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org>.
Sander Temme wrote:
>
> On Sep 26, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
>
>> Not wanting to challenge your statement in any way, specially as the
>> policying of jobs@ involves real work, but I'd say that whoever is
>
> Meh. I moderate jobs@, and so far it's pretty low traffic. Aside
> from ignoring the obvious 419 scams and other SPAM, my personal policy
> is to refuse subscription requests from recruiters and other
> non-committers. Also, I do not moderate through responses that
> candidates send to the list (usually in direct spite of the job
> posting, and I would not hire anyone who is sloppy enough to make that
> mistake).
>
> Perhaps the moderators need to sync up on the finer points of this.
> Who are we?
Yes, most certainly.
I also moderate this mist, and I apply a slightly different policy :
- I of course discard all the RAIN FOREST crap
- I accept proposals when it's really focused on some Apache project
- I also accept proposals coming from committers or members.
- last, not least, I accept mails from committers looking for a job
As you said, it covers probably one or two mails a month.
At some point, we may have to inform committers about this mailing list,
because I'm sure that it's a good place for all of us looking for some
people or seeking for a new job...
--
--
cordialement, regards,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
directory.apache.org
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Sander Temme <sc...@apache.org>.
On Sep 26, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
> Not wanting to challenge your statement in any way, specially as the
> policying of jobs@ involves real work, but I'd say that whoever is
Meh. I moderate jobs@, and so far it's pretty low traffic. Aside
from ignoring the obvious 419 scams and other SPAM, my personal policy
is to refuse subscription requests from recruiters and other non-
committers. Also, I do not moderate through responses that candidates
send to the list (usually in direct spite of the job posting, and I
would not hire anyone who is sloppy enough to make that mistake).
Perhaps the moderators need to sync up on the finer points of this.
Who are we?
> taking care of community right now should take jobs. My guess is it is
> prc@ (I can't remember right now and I can't search email either), and
> it will be communication "branch" of it in the near future.
>
> I'd say infra should handle it off to them (us?) when this committee
> is
> properly set up. infra has enough work as it is set up to take this
> sort
> of "PRish" stuff. Again it is a guess driven mostly by common sense,
> and
> I'm not strongly against infra keeping it.
Oh please no. jobs@ is an informal internal service with low traffic
and (I believe) few subscribers. We may hammer out some guidelines
for moderation, and then post them in a README for the list (is that
possible) that anyone can pull down.
Reconvene if that doesn't work, but not before. No need for PRC drama.
S.
--
Sander Temme
sctemme@apache.org
PGP FP: 51B4 8727 466A 0BC3 69F4 B7B8 B2BE BC40 1529 24AF
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Santiago Gala <sa...@gmail.com>.
El jue, 20-08-2009 a las 09:43 +0200, Emmanuel Lécharny escribió:
> Paul Querna wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny<el...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Wes Wannemacher wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday 19 August 2009 04:39:25 pm Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi guys,
> >>>>
> >>>> today, I saw a mail from a guy who is not an committer, who is looking
> >>>> for a job. As a moderator, I can assure you that I didn't saw the mail
> >>>> before it reached the ML.
> >>>>
> >>>> How possibly this guy could post directly to this ML without being a
> >>>> committer or being moderated ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Poster : luigi.viggiano@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>> Mail content :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>> I'm not a member of the infra team, but I do subscribe to that list as
> >>> well.
> >>> The funny thing for me is that I don't remember finding any policies about
> >>> the jobs@a.o ML. I read the message and found it acceptable, if there are
> >>> rules for that list, are they somewhere that the poster could have found
> >>> them?
> >>>
> >> I have looked on the Apache web site, and I didn't found any reference to
> >> it. Can't find a lot on the web too.
> >>
> >>> I'm not arguing whether he should or should not have posted, I'm just
> >>> curious if there is a policy, where it is and if the poster realized he
> >>> might have broken it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> May be I'm defining my own policy about what can be posted on this mailing
> >> list. To me, this is for committers who are looking for a new job, or for
> >> people seeking committers and submit a proposal. Either side have to be a
> >> committer, at some point. Otherwise, Monster.com is probably the place to
> >> post.
> >>
> >> But I may be totally wrong, and I'd like to know what is the exact policy
> >> for this mailing list. All in all, as a moderator, that could help :)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I would say committers only +/- respected guests looking for specific
> > apache-things, but thats about it. We aren't a job exchange website,
> > but I'm happy to have a place to let committers connect.
> >
> > If we need a written policy.... I guess job@ falls under the domain of
> > Infra Committee... :)
> >
> Probably :)
>
Not wanting to challenge your statement in any way, specially as the
policying of jobs@ involves real work, but I'd say that whoever is
taking care of community right now should take jobs. My guess is it is
prc@ (I can't remember right now and I can't search email either), and
it will be communication "branch" of it in the near future.
I'd say infra should handle it off to them (us?) when this committee is
properly set up. infra has enough work as it is set up to take this sort
of "PRish" stuff. Again it is a guess driven mostly by common sense, and
I'm not strongly against infra keeping it.
Regards
Santiago
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org>.
Paul Querna wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny<el...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Wes Wannemacher wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday 19 August 2009 04:39:25 pm Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>
>>>> today, I saw a mail from a guy who is not an committer, who is looking
>>>> for a job. As a moderator, I can assure you that I didn't saw the mail
>>>> before it reached the ML.
>>>>
>>>> How possibly this guy could post directly to this ML without being a
>>>> committer or being moderated ?
>>>>
>>>> Poster : luigi.viggiano@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Mail content :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I'm not a member of the infra team, but I do subscribe to that list as
>>> well.
>>> The funny thing for me is that I don't remember finding any policies about
>>> the jobs@a.o ML. I read the message and found it acceptable, if there are
>>> rules for that list, are they somewhere that the poster could have found
>>> them?
>>>
>> I have looked on the Apache web site, and I didn't found any reference to
>> it. Can't find a lot on the web too.
>>
>>> I'm not arguing whether he should or should not have posted, I'm just
>>> curious if there is a policy, where it is and if the poster realized he
>>> might have broken it.
>>>
>>>
>> May be I'm defining my own policy about what can be posted on this mailing
>> list. To me, this is for committers who are looking for a new job, or for
>> people seeking committers and submit a proposal. Either side have to be a
>> committer, at some point. Otherwise, Monster.com is probably the place to
>> post.
>>
>> But I may be totally wrong, and I'd like to know what is the exact policy
>> for this mailing list. All in all, as a moderator, that could help :)
>>
>>
>
> I would say committers only +/- respected guests looking for specific
> apache-things, but thats about it. We aren't a job exchange website,
> but I'm happy to have a place to let committers connect.
>
> If we need a written policy.... I guess job@ falls under the domain of
> Infra Committee... :)
>
Probably :)
--
--
cordialement, regards,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
directory.apache.org
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by J Aaron Farr <fa...@apache.org>.
On Thu 20 Aug 2009 15:46, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org> wrote:
> I think that we should allow any potential employers looking either
> for a committer or a user to post on jobs@a.o. And I personnaly
> moderate through any kind of proposal like that.
+1
I see no reason to deny committers a chance at a job. Let committers
subscribe and let any real job offer make it to the list.
--
J. Aaron Farr
馮傑仁
www.cubiclemuses.com
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org>.
Mark Struberg wrote:
> I didn't use jobs@a.o yet, but I saw a lot of noise on the other mailing lists where people were looking for apache committers _and_users_ as employees! They all get directed to jobs@a.o. So if we close this list for non-committers, this may increase the noise on the other lists even further.
>
I think that we should allow any potential employers looking either for
a committer or a user to post on jobs@a.o. And I personnaly moderate
through any kind of proposal like that.
But my question was more about non-committers looking for a job.
--
--
cordialement, regards,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
directory.apache.org
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
on myfaces we think it is OK to have questions for that on the users
list, for as you say "respected guests", no
recruiting agency.
-M
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Mark Struberg<st...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> I didn't use jobs@a.o yet, but I saw a lot of noise on the other mailing lists where people were looking for apache committers _and_users_ as employees! They all get directed to jobs@a.o. So if we close this list for non-committers, this may increase the noise on the other lists even further.
>
> just my .02
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org>
>> To: infrastructure-dev@apache.org; elecharny@apache.org
>> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:34:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Emmanuel Lécharnywrote:
>> > Wes Wannemacher wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wednesday 19 August 2009 04:39:25 pm Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi guys,
>> >>>
>> >>> today, I saw a mail from a guy who is not an committer, who is looking
>> >>> for a job. As a moderator, I can assure you that I didn't saw the mail
>> >>> before it reached the ML.
>> >>>
>> >>> How possibly this guy could post directly to this ML without being a
>> >>> committer or being moderated ?
>> >>>
>> >>> Poster : luigi.viggiano@gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>> Mail content :
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> [snip]
>> >>
>> >> I'm not a member of the infra team, but I do subscribe to that list as
>> >> well.
>> >> The funny thing for me is that I don't remember finding any policies about
>> >> the jobs@a.o ML. I read the message and found it acceptable, if there are
>> >> rules for that list, are they somewhere that the poster could have found
>> >> them?
>> >
>> > I have looked on the Apache web site, and I didn't found any reference to
>> > it. Can't find a lot on the web too.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not arguing whether he should or should not have posted, I'm just
>> >> curious if there is a policy, where it is and if the poster realized he
>> >> might have broken it.
>> >>
>> >
>> > May be I'm defining my own policy about what can be posted on this mailing
>> > list. To me, this is for committers who are looking for a new job, or for
>> > people seeking committers and submit a proposal. Either side have to be a
>> > committer, at some point. Otherwise, Monster.com is probably the place to
>> > post.
>> >
>> > But I may be totally wrong, and I'd like to know what is the exact policy
>> > for this mailing list. All in all, as a moderator, that could help :)
>> >
>>
>> I would say committers only +/- respected guests looking for specific
>> apache-things, but thats about it. We aren't a job exchange website,
>> but I'm happy to have a place to let committers connect.
>>
>> If we need a written policy.... I guess job@ falls under the domain of
>> Infra Committee... :)
>
>
>
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>.
I didn't use jobs@a.o yet, but I saw a lot of noise on the other mailing lists where people were looking for apache committers _and_users_ as employees! They all get directed to jobs@a.o. So if we close this list for non-committers, this may increase the noise on the other lists even further.
just my .02
LieGrue,
strub
----- Original Message ----
> From: Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org>
> To: infrastructure-dev@apache.org; elecharny@apache.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:34:05 AM
> Subject: Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Emmanuel Lécharnywrote:
> > Wes Wannemacher wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wednesday 19 August 2009 04:39:25 pm Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hi guys,
> >>>
> >>> today, I saw a mail from a guy who is not an committer, who is looking
> >>> for a job. As a moderator, I can assure you that I didn't saw the mail
> >>> before it reached the ML.
> >>>
> >>> How possibly this guy could post directly to this ML without being a
> >>> committer or being moderated ?
> >>>
> >>> Poster : luigi.viggiano@gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> Mail content :
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> I'm not a member of the infra team, but I do subscribe to that list as
> >> well.
> >> The funny thing for me is that I don't remember finding any policies about
> >> the jobs@a.o ML. I read the message and found it acceptable, if there are
> >> rules for that list, are they somewhere that the poster could have found
> >> them?
> >
> > I have looked on the Apache web site, and I didn't found any reference to
> > it. Can't find a lot on the web too.
> >>
> >> I'm not arguing whether he should or should not have posted, I'm just
> >> curious if there is a policy, where it is and if the poster realized he
> >> might have broken it.
> >>
> >
> > May be I'm defining my own policy about what can be posted on this mailing
> > list. To me, this is for committers who are looking for a new job, or for
> > people seeking committers and submit a proposal. Either side have to be a
> > committer, at some point. Otherwise, Monster.com is probably the place to
> > post.
> >
> > But I may be totally wrong, and I'd like to know what is the exact policy
> > for this mailing list. All in all, as a moderator, that could help :)
> >
>
> I would say committers only +/- respected guests looking for specific
> apache-things, but thats about it. We aren't a job exchange website,
> but I'm happy to have a place to let committers connect.
>
> If we need a written policy.... I guess job@ falls under the domain of
> Infra Committee... :)
Re: A problematic mail at jobs@a.o
Posted by Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org>.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny<el...@apache.org> wrote:
> Wes Wannemacher wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday 19 August 2009 04:39:25 pm Emmanuel Lecharny wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> today, I saw a mail from a guy who is not an committer, who is looking
>>> for a job. As a moderator, I can assure you that I didn't saw the mail
>>> before it reached the ML.
>>>
>>> How possibly this guy could post directly to this ML without being a
>>> committer or being moderated ?
>>>
>>> Poster : luigi.viggiano@gmail.com
>>>
>>> Mail content :
>>>
>>>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I'm not a member of the infra team, but I do subscribe to that list as
>> well.
>> The funny thing for me is that I don't remember finding any policies about
>> the jobs@a.o ML. I read the message and found it acceptable, if there are
>> rules for that list, are they somewhere that the poster could have found
>> them?
>
> I have looked on the Apache web site, and I didn't found any reference to
> it. Can't find a lot on the web too.
>>
>> I'm not arguing whether he should or should not have posted, I'm just
>> curious if there is a policy, where it is and if the poster realized he
>> might have broken it.
>>
>
> May be I'm defining my own policy about what can be posted on this mailing
> list. To me, this is for committers who are looking for a new job, or for
> people seeking committers and submit a proposal. Either side have to be a
> committer, at some point. Otherwise, Monster.com is probably the place to
> post.
>
> But I may be totally wrong, and I'd like to know what is the exact policy
> for this mailing list. All in all, as a moderator, that could help :)
>
I would say committers only +/- respected guests looking for specific
apache-things, but thats about it. We aren't a job exchange website,
but I'm happy to have a place to let committers connect.
If we need a written policy.... I guess job@ falls under the domain of
Infra Committee... :)