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Posted to users@netbeans.apache.org by N <na...@gmail.com> on 2022/09/20 07:21:23 UTC
Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Hello,
I was an ardent user of Netbeans from 2009 to around 2016, while using Java
(and for a short while when using C++ and Python). I've even written about
it
<https://nrecursions.blogspot.com/2014/07/preview-your-webpage-realtime-while.html>,
and linked to James Gosling's support for Netbeans.
The reason for mentioning this, is because current popular IDE's lack the
usability that Netbeans has. There is a LOT of features that are very
thoughtfully crafted, and has left me wishing it was there in other IDE's
too. Problems with other IDE's:
- Intellij Idea: Too heavy on resources. Can't run it on my 2GB RAM,
Celeron laptop.
- VS Code: The various view panels are inflexible in position and simple
tasks that should have been easily runnable, are complex in accessibility
and usage. Julia's plugin for VS Code makes it extremely slow to run Julia
programs.
- Spyder: Poor support for refactoring.
- Sublime text: Unbelievably un-intuitive IDE. Need to Google search for
how to do anything in it.
- Atom: Is already being sunsetted.
- Eclipse and LiClipse: Is kind of ok, but not as good as Netbeans.
It's not just me. When using Java, many of my juniors were also
enthusiastically vocal in their preference for Netbeans. You've built a
great IDE. If Netbeans could be streamlined to be lightweight, bug-free and
if support for languages like Python, Julia, R and C++ is added/improved,
and if Netbeans could be marketed more, it'd be a great help to the
software community.
--
Regards,
Navin
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by Eric Bresie <eb...@gmail.com>.
For example, regarding Python support…it’s in very early development but there is an in-work LSP based Python plugin available here.
https://github.com/ebresie/python4nb
And can always checkout other languages like those listed here
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=148640090#content/view/148640090
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2022 6:39:57 AM
To: Amn Ojee Uw <am...@gmail.com>
Cc: László Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>; N <na...@gmail.com>; Netbeans Apache Mailing List <us...@netbeans.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Take a look around at the apache.org<http://apache.org> website to see what it is about (i.e., all volunteer programmers, just like you; you want something, you build it).
Gj
On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 at 13:38, Amn Ojee Uw <am...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well, isn't that the job of the Apache Netbeans.
The features requests is what users do.
If I have a request and Netbeans wants to include any of us in that teem, one could help. I love the suggestion of the OP, and respect the suggestion being offered. However, accepting that suggestion would require too much effort for a single developer; not only time wise, but also mental and physical, just to mention some. This kind of endeavours are better suited for a stablish company like Apache.
I'm offering my help, in case one of the developers need coffee or something from the kitchen :), 7 to 10 hour a week.
I truly hope Apache is not just reading this emails, but also giving them the cerebral value they deserve.
On Tue., Sep. 20, 2022, 3:37 a.m. László Kishalmi, <la...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well, pick a language and start writing the support for that. It's that simple.
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 00:22 N <na...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hello,
I was an ardent user of Netbeans from 2009 to around 2016, while using Java (and for a short while when using C++ and Python). I've even written about it<https://nrecursions.blogspot.com/2014/07/preview-your-webpage-realtime-while.html>, and linked to James Gosling's support for Netbeans.
The reason for mentioning this, is because current popular IDE's lack the usability that Netbeans has. There is a LOT of features that are very thoughtfully crafted, and has left me wishing it was there in other IDE's too. Problems with other IDE's:
* Intellij Idea: Too heavy on resources. Can't run it on my 2GB RAM, Celeron laptop.
* VS Code: The various view panels are inflexible in position and simple tasks that should have been easily runnable, are complex in accessibility and usage. Julia's plugin for VS Code makes it extremely slow to run Julia programs.
* Spyder: Poor support for refactoring.
* Sublime text: Unbelievably un-intuitive IDE. Need to Google search for how to do anything in it.
* Atom: Is already being sunsetted.
* Eclipse and LiClipse: Is kind of ok, but not as good as Netbeans.
It's not just me. When using Java, many of my juniors were also enthusiastically vocal in their preference for Netbeans. You've built a great IDE. If Netbeans could be streamlined to be lightweight, bug-free and if support for languages like Python, Julia, R and C++ is added/improved, and if Netbeans could be marketed more, it'd be a great help to the software community.
--
Regards,
Navin
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by Thomas Wolf <tj...@gmail.com>.
I think the suggestion is to learn about a subject before making statements
about it. E.g. it isn’t the “job of the Apache Netbeans” [to implement user
requested features.]. A “job” is a function performed for pay - work. Who is
getting paid - and by whom - to implement those features?
I think Andreas put it well in his response with respect to how features get
implemented in a community supported tool.
> On Sep 20, 2022, at 7:46 AM, Amn Ojee Uw <am...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Thanks, I would love to check it out when I get some downtime.
>
> However, something tells me that you know the law, but not the message in
> it, thank you nonetheless. 😊
>
>
>
>
> On Tue., Sep. 20, 2022, 7:40 a.m. Geertjan Wielenga,
> <[geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com](mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com)>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Take a look around at the [apache.org](http://apache.org) website to see
what it is about (i.e., all volunteer programmers, just like you; you want
something, you build it).
>>
>>
>
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>
>
>>
>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 at 13:38, Amn Ojee Uw
<[amnojeeuw@gmail.com](mailto:amnojeeuw@gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Well, isn't that the job of the Apache Netbeans.
>>>
>>> The features requests is what users do.
>>>
>>> If I have a request and Netbeans wants to include any of us in that teem,
one could help. I love the suggestion of the OP, and respect the suggestion
being offered. However, accepting that suggestion would require too much
effort for a single developer; not only time wise, but also mental and
physical, just to mention some. This kind of endeavours are better suited for
a stablish company like Apache.
>>>
>>> I'm offering my help, in case one of the developers need coffee or
something from the kitchen :), 7 to 10 hour a week.
>>>
>>> I truly hope Apache is not just reading this emails, but also giving them
the cerebral value they deserve.
>>>
>>>
>
>>>
>>>
>
>>>
>>> On Tue., Sep. 20, 2022, 3:37 a.m. László Kishalmi,
<[laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com](mailto:laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> Well, pick a language and start writing the support for that. It's that
simple.
>>>>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 00:22 N
<[navin.pro@gmail.com](mailto:navin.pro@gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was an ardent user of Netbeans from 2009 to around 2016, while using
Java (and for a short while when using C++ and Python). I've even [written
about it](https://nrecursions.blogspot.com/2014/07/preview-your-webpage-
realtime-while.html), and linked to James Gosling's support for Netbeans.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason for mentioning this, is because current popular IDE's lack
the usability that Netbeans has. There is a LOT of features that are very
thoughtfully crafted, and has left me wishing it was there in other IDE's too.
Problems with other IDE's:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Intellij Idea: Too heavy on resources. Can't run it on my 2GB RAM,
Celeron laptop.
>>>>> * VS Code: The various view panels are inflexible in position and
simple tasks that should have been easily runnable, are complex in
accessibility and usage. Julia's plugin for VS Code makes it extremely slow to
run Julia programs.
>>>>> * Spyder: Poor support for refactoring.
>>>>> * Sublime text: Unbelievably un-intuitive IDE. Need to Google search
for how to do anything in it.
>>>>> * Atom: Is already being sunsetted.
>>>>> * Eclipse and LiClipse: Is kind of ok, but not as good as Netbeans.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not just me. When using Java, many of my juniors were also
enthusiastically vocal in their preference for Netbeans. You've built a great
IDE. If Netbeans could be streamlined to be lightweight, bug-free and if
support for languages like Python, Julia, R and C++ is added/improved, and if
Netbeans could be marketed more, it'd be a great help to the software
community.
>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> \--
>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
> Navin
>
>
>
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by Amn Ojee Uw <am...@gmail.com>.
Thanks, I would love to check it out when I get some downtime.
However, something tells me that you know the law, but not the message in
it, thank you nonetheless. 😊
On Tue., Sep. 20, 2022, 7:40 a.m. Geertjan Wielenga, <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Take a look around at the apache.org website to see what it is about
> (i.e., all volunteer programmers, just like you; you want something, you
> build it).
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 at 13:38, Amn Ojee Uw <am...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, isn't that the job of the Apache Netbeans.
>> The features requests is what users do.
>> If I have a request and Netbeans wants to include any of us in that teem,
>> one could help. I love the suggestion of the OP, and respect the suggestion
>> being offered. However, accepting that suggestion would require too much
>> effort for a single developer; not only time wise, but also mental and
>> physical, just to mention some. This kind of endeavours are better suited
>> for a stablish company like Apache.
>> I'm offering my help, in case one of the developers need coffee or
>> something from the kitchen :), 7 to 10 hour a week.
>> I truly hope Apache is not just reading this emails, but also giving
>> them the cerebral value they deserve.
>>
>>
>> On Tue., Sep. 20, 2022, 3:37 a.m. László Kishalmi, <
>> laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, pick a language and start writing the support for that. It's that
>>> simple.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 00:22 N <na...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I was an ardent user of Netbeans from 2009 to around 2016, while using
>>>> Java (and for a short while when using C++ and Python). I've even written
>>>> about it
>>>> <https://nrecursions.blogspot.com/2014/07/preview-your-webpage-realtime-while.html>,
>>>> and linked to James Gosling's support for Netbeans.
>>>> The reason for mentioning this, is because current popular IDE's lack
>>>> the usability that Netbeans has. There is a LOT of features that are very
>>>> thoughtfully crafted, and has left me wishing it was there in other IDE's
>>>> too. Problems with other IDE's:
>>>>
>>>> - Intellij Idea: Too heavy on resources. Can't run it on my 2GB
>>>> RAM, Celeron laptop.
>>>> - VS Code: The various view panels are inflexible in position and
>>>> simple tasks that should have been easily runnable, are complex in
>>>> accessibility and usage. Julia's plugin for VS Code makes it extremely slow
>>>> to run Julia programs.
>>>> - Spyder: Poor support for refactoring.
>>>> - Sublime text: Unbelievably un-intuitive IDE. Need to Google
>>>> search for how to do anything in it.
>>>> - Atom: Is already being sunsetted.
>>>> - Eclipse and LiClipse: Is kind of ok, but not as good as Netbeans.
>>>>
>>>> It's not just me. When using Java, many of my juniors were also
>>>> enthusiastically vocal in their preference for Netbeans. You've built a
>>>> great IDE. If Netbeans could be streamlined to be lightweight, bug-free and
>>>> if support for languages like Python, Julia, R and C++ is added/improved,
>>>> and if Netbeans could be marketed more, it'd be a great help to the
>>>> software community.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Navin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Take a look around at the apache.org website to see what it is about (i.e.,
all volunteer programmers, just like you; you want something, you build it).
Gj
On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 at 13:38, Amn Ojee Uw <am...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, isn't that the job of the Apache Netbeans.
> The features requests is what users do.
> If I have a request and Netbeans wants to include any of us in that teem,
> one could help. I love the suggestion of the OP, and respect the suggestion
> being offered. However, accepting that suggestion would require too much
> effort for a single developer; not only time wise, but also mental and
> physical, just to mention some. This kind of endeavours are better suited
> for a stablish company like Apache.
> I'm offering my help, in case one of the developers need coffee or
> something from the kitchen :), 7 to 10 hour a week.
> I truly hope Apache is not just reading this emails, but also giving them
> the cerebral value they deserve.
>
>
> On Tue., Sep. 20, 2022, 3:37 a.m. László Kishalmi, <
> laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, pick a language and start writing the support for that. It's that
>> simple.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 00:22 N <na...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I was an ardent user of Netbeans from 2009 to around 2016, while using
>>> Java (and for a short while when using C++ and Python). I've even written
>>> about it
>>> <https://nrecursions.blogspot.com/2014/07/preview-your-webpage-realtime-while.html>,
>>> and linked to James Gosling's support for Netbeans.
>>> The reason for mentioning this, is because current popular IDE's lack
>>> the usability that Netbeans has. There is a LOT of features that are very
>>> thoughtfully crafted, and has left me wishing it was there in other IDE's
>>> too. Problems with other IDE's:
>>>
>>> - Intellij Idea: Too heavy on resources. Can't run it on my 2GB RAM,
>>> Celeron laptop.
>>> - VS Code: The various view panels are inflexible in position and
>>> simple tasks that should have been easily runnable, are complex in
>>> accessibility and usage. Julia's plugin for VS Code makes it extremely slow
>>> to run Julia programs.
>>> - Spyder: Poor support for refactoring.
>>> - Sublime text: Unbelievably un-intuitive IDE. Need to Google search
>>> for how to do anything in it.
>>> - Atom: Is already being sunsetted.
>>> - Eclipse and LiClipse: Is kind of ok, but not as good as Netbeans.
>>>
>>> It's not just me. When using Java, many of my juniors were also
>>> enthusiastically vocal in their preference for Netbeans. You've built a
>>> great IDE. If Netbeans could be streamlined to be lightweight, bug-free and
>>> if support for languages like Python, Julia, R and C++ is added/improved,
>>> and if Netbeans could be marketed more, it'd be a great help to the
>>> software community.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Navin
>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by Andreas Reichel <an...@manticore-projects.com>.
On Tue, 2022-09-20 at 19:06 +0700, Andreas Reichel wrote:
> 1) select your language
> 2) get hold of the specs (Syntax and Grammar)
> 3) get hold of parser generating the AST (build the parser by
> yourself using ANTLR or JavaCC)
> 4) clone one of the existing language plugins (e.g. Groovy) and
> replace with your language Grammar/AST and Formatter
> 5) publish your plugin
I forgot of course:
6) provide the compiler/execution tool-chain!
7) write good documentation, how to use it and examples
8) promote it (or nobody will ever notice)
Failure on 7) or 8) will render all effort 1-6 mood.
Cheers
Andreas
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by Andreas Reichel <an...@manticore-projects.com>.
All,
On Tue, 2022-09-20 at 07:37 -0400, Amn Ojee Uw wrote:
> Well, isn't that the job of the Apache Netbeans.
I can not speak for Apache/Netbeans but only for some Open Source
Software, that I contribute to -- and the following is my very personal
opinion:
1) Open source is provided by volunteers in their spare time and shared
for free
2) Users are welcome to make suggestions
3) There are 3 ways to get stuff implemented:
a) convince the author, that your suggestion aligns with his own
interest and so the author would implement it for himself and you
would benefit from it
b) convince the author with a payment to implement it for you
c) implement it by yourself and submit a PR
There really is no obligation or job -- just a lots of good will and
passion (in the best case on both sides.
I do a lot of work for JSQLParser and we often get feature requests. If
those are for major RDBMS, which we use by ourselves then option 1)
applies. Pull requests according to option 3) are very welcome. If
about very proprietary, exotic RDBMS far away from any standard then
even option 2) would not always work.
> If I have a request and Netbeans wants to include any of us in that
> teem, one could help. I love the suggestion of the OP, and respect
> the suggestion being offered. However, accepting that suggestion
> would require too much effort for a single developer; not only time
> wise, but also mental and physical, just to mention some. This kind
> of endeavours are better suited for a stablish company like Apache.
> I'm offering my help, in case one of the developers need coffee or
> something from the kitchen :), 7 to 10 hour a week.
> I truly hope Apache is not just reading this emails, but also giving
> them the cerebral value they deserve.
From a more practical point of view (and again, not authorised by
Apache/Netbeans -- I am just an End user):
1) select your language
2) get hold of the specs (Syntax and Grammar)
3) get hold of parser generating the AST (build the parser by yourself
using ANTLR or JavaCC)
4) clone one of the existing language plugins (e.g. Groovy) and replace
with your language Grammar/AST and Formatter
5) publish your plugin
From my own experience on SQL Parsing/Formatting and my knowledge of
Julja/R (which has been mentioned by the OP), I can tell you that items
2 and 3 will be major work and serious effort.
I have only the highest admiration for the Netbeans team, but my
personal defensive assessment was: Until a major sponsor would appear
and/or someone really has a passion for Julja or R, it likely won't
happen too soon. The people capable of doing such stuff are usually
drowned in Corporate money already.
@Netbeans team: please feel very welcome to correct me, where I am
wrong.
Cheers and regards
Andreas
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by Amn Ojee Uw <am...@gmail.com>.
Well, isn't that the job of the Apache Netbeans.
The features requests is what users do.
If I have a request and Netbeans wants to include any of us in that teem,
one could help. I love the suggestion of the OP, and respect the suggestion
being offered. However, accepting that suggestion would require too much
effort for a single developer; not only time wise, but also mental and
physical, just to mention some. This kind of endeavours are better suited
for a stablish company like Apache.
I'm offering my help, in case one of the developers need coffee or
something from the kitchen :), 7 to 10 hour a week.
I truly hope Apache is not just reading this emails, but also giving them
the cerebral value they deserve.
On Tue., Sep. 20, 2022, 3:37 a.m. László Kishalmi, <
laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, pick a language and start writing the support for that. It's that
> simple.
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 00:22 N <na...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I was an ardent user of Netbeans from 2009 to around 2016, while using
>> Java (and for a short while when using C++ and Python). I've even written
>> about it
>> <https://nrecursions.blogspot.com/2014/07/preview-your-webpage-realtime-while.html>,
>> and linked to James Gosling's support for Netbeans.
>> The reason for mentioning this, is because current popular IDE's lack the
>> usability that Netbeans has. There is a LOT of features that are very
>> thoughtfully crafted, and has left me wishing it was there in other IDE's
>> too. Problems with other IDE's:
>>
>> - Intellij Idea: Too heavy on resources. Can't run it on my 2GB RAM,
>> Celeron laptop.
>> - VS Code: The various view panels are inflexible in position and
>> simple tasks that should have been easily runnable, are complex in
>> accessibility and usage. Julia's plugin for VS Code makes it extremely slow
>> to run Julia programs.
>> - Spyder: Poor support for refactoring.
>> - Sublime text: Unbelievably un-intuitive IDE. Need to Google search
>> for how to do anything in it.
>> - Atom: Is already being sunsetted.
>> - Eclipse and LiClipse: Is kind of ok, but not as good as Netbeans.
>>
>> It's not just me. When using Java, many of my juniors were also
>> enthusiastically vocal in their preference for Netbeans. You've built a
>> great IDE. If Netbeans could be streamlined to be lightweight, bug-free and
>> if support for languages like Python, Julia, R and C++ is added/improved,
>> and if Netbeans could be marketed more, it'd be a great help to the
>> software community.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Navin
>>
>>
>>
Re: Possibility of Netbeans supporting more languages
Posted by László Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Well, pick a language and start writing the support for that. It's that
simple.
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022, 00:22 N <na...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was an ardent user of Netbeans from 2009 to around 2016, while using
> Java (and for a short while when using C++ and Python). I've even written
> about it
> <https://nrecursions.blogspot.com/2014/07/preview-your-webpage-realtime-while.html>,
> and linked to James Gosling's support for Netbeans.
> The reason for mentioning this, is because current popular IDE's lack the
> usability that Netbeans has. There is a LOT of features that are very
> thoughtfully crafted, and has left me wishing it was there in other IDE's
> too. Problems with other IDE's:
>
> - Intellij Idea: Too heavy on resources. Can't run it on my 2GB RAM,
> Celeron laptop.
> - VS Code: The various view panels are inflexible in position and
> simple tasks that should have been easily runnable, are complex in
> accessibility and usage. Julia's plugin for VS Code makes it extremely slow
> to run Julia programs.
> - Spyder: Poor support for refactoring.
> - Sublime text: Unbelievably un-intuitive IDE. Need to Google search
> for how to do anything in it.
> - Atom: Is already being sunsetted.
> - Eclipse and LiClipse: Is kind of ok, but not as good as Netbeans.
>
> It's not just me. When using Java, many of my juniors were also
> enthusiastically vocal in their preference for Netbeans. You've built a
> great IDE. If Netbeans could be streamlined to be lightweight, bug-free and
> if support for languages like Python, Julia, R and C++ is added/improved,
> and if Netbeans could be marketed more, it'd be a great help to the
> software community.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Navin
>
>
>