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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Steven Punte <st...@excite.com> on 2001/07/22 20:20:33 UTC
Financial Business Model: Was Stable Software Needed
My point is don't loose out and just become an interesting
"experimental academic project."
There is HUGH INTEREST by the software industry in this
type of architecture. There are undoubted many commercial
firms working on comparable frameworks. Sales of such
XML framework technology will probably exceed $1B by 2005.
I was driven away from TOMCAT last year because of it lack
of "production worthiness'." It looks like it is more mature
now, and I may return. It's sure costly to change back and
fourth.
I wish some financial business model could be integrated into this
type of open-source project. Say maybe free for all development
work and $1000/cpu for production use. Any commercial company
would not heisted to pony up $1K for a bit more stability and
support.
There is really a need in the market for something in-between the
very low cost open source and the $10K and up variety of full
commercial software.
Hell, the UC campuses have gone from free tuition to big bucks "fees"
(i.e. still supposedly free tuition) over the last few decades.
PS:
I'm on 1.8.2++ See http://candlelightsoftware.com/cocoon.html
for the "++".
PSS:
I love the Cocoon Framework! :-)
PSSS:
I showed an ASP instance of Cocoon at a Hotel trade
show in June, and the technology was a real hit!!
Steven P. Punte
Candlelight Software
By Candlelight If Necessary!
stevep@candlelightsoftware.com
http://candlelightsoftware.com
On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 09:54:02 -0700, cocoon-users@xml.apache.org wrote:
> I would like to point out that the cocoon team has done a good job of
> balancing feature requests with development release time. If what you
need
> is stable and mature software perhaps you'd like to consider using Cocoon
> 1.X series and see if it does what you need (which is what I did) while
> features are completed and the code matures enough to meet your
> requirements.
>
> Or, more bluntly, use commercial software if it gives you the more stable
> and usable system that you're looking for.
>
> Once upon a time, "Steven Punte" was seen writting:
>
> > I too agree with Roys' statements. Stable software is
> > everything. Otherwise Cocoon will just take it's
> > place as some interesting R&D project in the Software
> > Halls of History while another project, another firm,
> > deliveres a stable usable system to market that
> > becomes the standard.
> >
> > Steve Punte
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
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>
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Re: Financial Business Model: Was Stable Software Needed
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Steven Punte wrote:
>
> My point is don't loose out and just become an interesting
> "experimental academic project."
It helps if you pay attention to the whole thread. Cocoon 2.0
is well on its way to a final release. You have misconstrued
the existence of Cocoon 2.1 as the quest for the bleeding edge.
You will find that the only difference between the two really
is the existence of more Components for your use.
> There is HUGH INTEREST by the software industry in this
> type of architecture. There are undoubted many commercial
> firms working on comparable frameworks. Sales of such
> XML framework technology will probably exceed $1B by 2005.
I think you are optimistic of sales numbers, however, there
is considerable interest. People are more interested in
Quick and Dirty (Q&D) development, so technologies like
JSP, ASP, and PHP thrive. When it comes to maintenance
of the site--well, that's when Cocoon shines.
> I was driven away from TOMCAT last year because of it lack
> of "production worthiness'." It looks like it is more mature
> now, and I may return. It's sure costly to change back and
> fourth.
Cocoon needs formal testing--but you will find that Cocoon 2 beta 2
is MORE production worthy than Cocoon 1.x due to the fact that it
scales much better.
Re: Financial Business Model: Was Stable Software Needed
Posted by Sergio Carvalho <se...@acm.org>.
On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:20:33 -0700 (PDT), Steven Punte <st...@excite.com> wrote:
--
> I wish some financial business model could be integrated into this
> type of open-source project. Say maybe free for all development
> work and $1000/cpu for production use. Any commercial company
> would not heisted to pony up $1K for a bit more stability and
> support.
I wish not. Financial business models are the primary reason for bad software.
Good software takes time, time costs money. Good financial business models
reduce production costs. Software quality is then the 'invisible' feature that
can be cut out for financial efficiency.
This is obvious flame-bait, and I am acting like a flame-fish. But I can't pass
on the oportunity of saying this one more time:
Open Source Software Is Not About Money
Free software, as a phenomena (it's not a movement, it is not organized) is as
durable as modern civilization. It doesn't need venture capital, it doesn't
need gov support, and it surely doesn't need to sell. It needs to be interesting
to a large enough group of people, and scratch a large enough group of itches.
--
Sergio Carvalho
---------------
sergio.carvalho@acm.org
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
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Re: Financial Business Model: Was Stable Software Needed
Posted by Matthew Cordes <co...@cs.usm.maine.edu>.
> Sales of such
> XML framework technology will probably exceed $1B by 2005.
Oh yeah? Any proof to back up this obvious guess? Because as we all know,
by 2005 we all will have de-evolved to tiny aquatic mammals who have no need
for XML (See how easy that was :).
> I wish some financial business model could be integrated into this
> type of open-source project. Say maybe free for all development
> work and $1000/cpu for production use. Any commercial company
> would not heisted to pony up $1K for a bit more stability and
> support.
I completely disagree, and why do you feel you must pay for something for it
to be valuable. Where I work, Open Source's cost is not the issue, rather
it is a selling point. It is the lack of 24/7 support that keeps OS
software out and overpriced alternatives in production.
-Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Punte" <st...@excite.com>
To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: Financial Business Model: Was Stable Software Needed
> My point is don't loose out and just become an interesting
> "experimental academic project."
>
> There is HUGH INTEREST by the software industry in this
> type of architecture. There are undoubted many commercial
> firms working on comparable frameworks. Sales of such
> XML framework technology will probably exceed $1B by 2005.
>
> I was driven away from TOMCAT last year because of it lack
> of "production worthiness'." It looks like it is more mature
> now, and I may return. It's sure costly to change back and
> fourth.
>
> I wish some financial business model could be integrated into this
> type of open-source project. Say maybe free for all development
> work and $1000/cpu for production use. Any commercial company
> would not heisted to pony up $1K for a bit more stability and
> support.
>
> There is really a need in the market for something in-between the
> very low cost open source and the $10K and up variety of full
> commercial software.
>
> Hell, the UC campuses have gone from free tuition to big bucks "fees"
> (i.e. still supposedly free tuition) over the last few decades.
>
> PS:
> I'm on 1.8.2++ See http://candlelightsoftware.com/cocoon.html
> for the "++".
>
> PSS:
> I love the Cocoon Framework! :-)
>
> PSSS:
> I showed an ASP instance of Cocoon at a Hotel trade
> show in June, and the technology was a real hit!!
>
> Steven P. Punte
> Candlelight Software
> By Candlelight If Necessary!
> stevep@candlelightsoftware.com
> http://candlelightsoftware.com
>
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 09:54:02 -0700, cocoon-users@xml.apache.org wrote:
>
> > I would like to point out that the cocoon team has done a good job of
> > balancing feature requests with development release time. If what you
> need
> > is stable and mature software perhaps you'd like to consider using
Cocoon
> > 1.X series and see if it does what you need (which is what I did) while
> > features are completed and the code matures enough to meet your
> > requirements.
> >
> > Or, more bluntly, use commercial software if it gives you the more
stable
> > and usable system that you're looking for.
> >
> > Once upon a time, "Steven Punte" was seen writting:
> >
> > > I too agree with Roys' statements. Stable software is
> > > everything. Otherwise Cocoon will just take it's
> > > place as some interesting R&D project in the Software
> > > Halls of History while another project, another firm,
> > > deliveres a stable usable system to market that
> > > becomes the standard.
> > >
> > > Steve Punte
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Send a cool gift with your E-Card
> http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
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Re: Financial Business Model: Was Stable Software Needed
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <di...@yahoo.com>.
Steven, Cocoon-Users,
Do you really want to help in this quest? Then please help us by taking a look at the latest
C2Beta2 and submit patches, docs, anything you think will be useful. This is the only way we can
grow. All of us on the C2 Dev team have "regular" jobs AFAIK. If you want to see changes, more
people need to get their hands dirty with the code. Giving specific information/patches will be of
more help than talking in general terms :) FYI, C2.1 is just C2.0 + some experimental code that
people have submitted that we don't want to lose.
Thanks,
dims
--- Steven Punte <st...@excite.com> wrote:
> My point is don't loose out and just become an interesting
> "experimental academic project."
>
> There is HUGH INTEREST by the software industry in this
> type of architecture. There are undoubted many commercial
> firms working on comparable frameworks. Sales of such
> XML framework technology will probably exceed $1B by 2005.
>
> I was driven away from TOMCAT last year because of it lack
> of "production worthiness'." It looks like it is more mature
> now, and I may return. It's sure costly to change back and
> fourth.
>
> I wish some financial business model could be integrated into this
> type of open-source project. Say maybe free for all development
> work and $1000/cpu for production use. Any commercial company
> would not heisted to pony up $1K for a bit more stability and
> support.
>
> There is really a need in the market for something in-between the
> very low cost open source and the $10K and up variety of full
> commercial software.
>
> Hell, the UC campuses have gone from free tuition to big bucks "fees"
> (i.e. still supposedly free tuition) over the last few decades.
>
> PS:
> I'm on 1.8.2++ See http://candlelightsoftware.com/cocoon.html
> for the "++".
>
> PSS:
> I love the Cocoon Framework! :-)
>
> PSSS:
> I showed an ASP instance of Cocoon at a Hotel trade
> show in June, and the technology was a real hit!!
>
> Steven P. Punte
> Candlelight Software
> By Candlelight If Necessary!
> stevep@candlelightsoftware.com
> http://candlelightsoftware.com
>
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 09:54:02 -0700, cocoon-users@xml.apache.org wrote:
>
> > I would like to point out that the cocoon team has done a good job of
> > balancing feature requests with development release time. If what you
> need
> > is stable and mature software perhaps you'd like to consider using Cocoon
> > 1.X series and see if it does what you need (which is what I did) while
> > features are completed and the code matures enough to meet your
> > requirements.
> >
> > Or, more bluntly, use commercial software if it gives you the more stable
> > and usable system that you're looking for.
> >
> > Once upon a time, "Steven Punte" was seen writting:
> >
> > > I too agree with Roys' statements. Stable software is
> > > everything. Otherwise Cocoon will just take it's
> > > place as some interesting R&D project in the Software
> > > Halls of History while another project, another firm,
> > > deliveres a stable usable system to market that
> > > becomes the standard.
> > >
> > > Steve Punte
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Send a cool gift with your E-Card
> http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
=====
Davanum Srinivas, JNI-FAQ Manager
http://www.jGuru.com/faq/JNI
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