advise on migrating from neoweb to rivet

[John <jo...@generic.ie>]

Hi,


I have a number of sites that are running Neowebscript on our apache 
servers (freebsd) and wanted to look at migrating these to rivet. The 
clients are quite happy with the current system and I have hardened the 
server as best we can, but would like some pointers on this and did 
anyone else have any issues with migration?


Regards

John

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Re: advise on migrating from neoweb to rivet

[Karl Lehenbauer <ka...@gmail.com>]

Hi John,

That’s pretty awesome that you’re running Neowebscript.  I pretty much invented it and did a lot of the work on NWS back in the mid-1990s, so it’s a pleasure and a little bit of a surprise to see that someone is still using it.

The biggest difference between Rivet and Neowebscript is that Neowebscript was really designed for shared hosting while Rivet is more oriented toward a site that owns all of its content.

Rivet, however, is considerably more efficient, powerful, and evolved, though it still can support multiple independent sites on a single machine through its “separate virtual interpreters” mechanism.

By powerful, the difference is that the full power of Tcl is available to webpage authors, not the restricted version that NWS provides.  For instance, you can read or write any file in the system that you have permission to, require any package, open sockets and pipes, etc.

By efficient, the difference is that Tcl interpreters survive past the generation of a webpage and are reused again and again, reducing the overhead of generating a page.

By evolved, all of our efforts have gone toward Rivet for many years and so, you know, Rivet does more out of the box than Neowebscript did.

The trickiest part, in my opinion, is getting Rivet configured and running properly.  From the viewpoint of the webpage writer I think you’ll find that the principles are pretty much the same.

I haven’t looked at NWS in quite a while but I think a number of capabilities it provided were not ported to Rivet, like the key-value store, so you’ll need to do some rewriting or recreate the capabilities in Rivet.  Overall, though, once you get your head wrapped around Rivet I think you’ll agree it’s considerably improved.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.  I’ll be happy to answer more questions, although not always necessarily quickly.

Regards,

Karl



On Feb 26, 2014, at 4:27 AM, John <jo...@generic.ie> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> 
> I have a number of sites that are running Neowebscript on our apache servers (freebsd) and wanted to look at migrating these to rivet. The clients are quite happy with the current system and I have hardened the server as best we can, but would like some pointers on this and did anyone else have any issues with migration?
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> John
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: rivet-dev-unsubscribe@tcl.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: rivet-dev-help@tcl.apache.org
> 


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Re: advise on migrating from neoweb to rivet

[Massimo Manghi <ma...@unipr.it>]

I know little about NWS, I see it's still available from sourceforge, 
but
the latest release (3.3) was published in 2000, quite long before I
started to actively maintain Rivet in 2007.

Naturally as long as NWS is a module for the Apache Webserver
(1.x? ASF rolled out 2.0 in 2000) with a set of Tcl commands you may
write some code to wrap mod_rivet's command set with the NWS syntax.
Still I'm reading the list of features from http://wiki.tcl.tk/1366 :

"per-uid dpopen database files, random and sequential files,
HTML page inclusion, logging, procedure libraries, random numbers,
date and time functions, calculations of server hits per hour,
counter systems for statistics, improved debugging,
file cataloging and a new forms library"

and I think not everything can be easily reduced to a syntax wrapper.
Some of them (server hits per hour) probably exploited some Apache
1.x feature that could not be available on the 2.2/2.4 series

The only suggestion I can come up is to build rivet avoiding to
export the ::rivet namespace: (--disable-import-rivet-commands)
and use their fully qualified names to avoid confusion with the NWS
compatibility layer.

  -- Massimo

P.S. Please subscribe to rivet-dev to continue the discussion, the
traffic is acceptable and you may have more hints about rivet.







On 26-02-2014 11:27, John wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I have a number of sites that are running Neowebscript on our apache
> servers (freebsd) and wanted to look at migrating these to rivet. The
> clients are quite happy with the current system and I have hardened
> the server as best we can, but would like some pointers on this and
> did anyone else have any issues with migration?
>
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: rivet-dev-unsubscribe@tcl.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: rivet-dev-help@tcl.apache.org


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Re: advise on migrating from neoweb to rivet

[Massimo Manghi <ma...@unipr.it>]

Our manual still shows a page where we claim we can provide help for 
those who are preparing to migrate to NWS to Rivet. Hadn't John asked 
for help I would have proposed to remove it. Still someone out there is 
still wanting help on NWS so I will elaborate that page in the 
appropriate section in a more general form quoting Karl's arguments for 
a transition to Rivet.

  -- Massimo


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