Re: Struts vs .NET??? ->This is my Stats

[John Henry Xu <xi...@email.com>]

> Leon Rosenberg wrote: I think the larger problem for a java developer
in a small business sector
> is PHP or even Perl. .NET is mostly irrelevant, at least in germany.

Agree with you that PHP snd Perl and MySQL are popular on web these days.
See the blogs and forums, most are PHP. This makes me wonder where
java-based applications such as Java Face, EJB or Struts played on the
large public web applications. There must be some economic reasons
behind it. 

Jack H. Xu
Technology columnist and editor

http://www.usanalyst.com

http://www.getusjobs.com (The largest free job portal in North America)  

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Leon Rosenberg"
  To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'"
  Subject: Re: Struts vs .NET??? ->This is my Stats
  Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 03:53:01 +0200

  >
  > > When you have a debate, try not to win the debate by by putting
  > > words in others mouths and not to exaggerate things (such as 1000
  > > times). Considering .NET has not been around as long as
  > > java/j2ee, don't you think the numbers are scary?
  >
  > No I don't, and know why? Here is a quote from a typical job offer
  which
  > comes out at monster (this one was from uk)
  > when you search for .NET:
  >
  > As a VB Developer, this is an opportunity for you to team up and
  work
  > alongside some of the top developers around and therefore to be
  considered
  > for this role, you will need to have at least 2 years solid Visual
  Basic
  > experience and a good understanding of the development of ActiveX
  > components, COM and .Net. Those who have and experience of the
  financial
  > market or have Real time software development then that will be
  beneficial
  > with your application.
  >
  > Salary 45K pounds in london... That's like 20K euro in germany or
  30K USD in
  > US. Sorry, this is not my kind of job :-)
  >
  > > You see you are missing the whole point here..... I have been a
  long time
  > believer that J2EE is good for big honking things. But
  > > .NET is eating up the small business sectors. I am talking about
  small to
  > medium sized apps here. large sites also use .NET such as
  > > www.dell.com and I believe there are a lot more out there.... I
  am too
  > lazy to google it right now.. I believe you could find them
  > > yourself...
  >
  > I think the larger problem for a java developer in a small business
  sector
  > is PHP or even Perl. .NET is mostly irrelevant, at least in
  germany.
  >
  > But know what, it was dumb from me, to get on this discussion. I
  admit my
  > defeat, you won, all praise .NET.
  >
  > :-)
  > Leon
  >
  >
  >
  >
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Jack H. Xu
Technology columnist and editor

http://www.usanalyst.com

http://www.getusjobs.com (The largest free job portal in North America)

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Re: Struts vs .NET??? ->This is my Stats

[Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>]

On 7/1/05, John Henry Xu <xi...@email.com> wrote:
> > Leon Rosenberg wrote: I think the larger problem for a java developer
> in a small business sector
> > is PHP or even Perl. .NET is mostly irrelevant, at least in germany.
> 
> Agree with you that PHP snd Perl and MySQL are popular on web these days.
> See the blogs and forums, most are PHP. This makes me wonder where
> java-based applications such as Java Face, EJB or Struts played on the
> large public web applications. There must be some economic reasons
> behind it.
> 

For public Internet sites, one of the issues for the Java platform is
the relative number of hosting sites that have Java technology
available, versus (say) PHP or PERL.  In turn, this is related to a
relative lack of knowledge on the part of ISP sysadmins about how to
set up and administer the Java stuff (not that it's any harder than
configuring httpd.conf ... it's just different).

A really useful open source project would be to provide one or more
completely integrated packages (Apache HTTPD + Tomcat, Apache HTTPD +
Geronimo, Tomcat standalone, Geronimo standalone, etc.) that have
everything an app developer would like to see (database, JSF, JSTL,
Hibernate, ...) and are trivially easy for an interested ISP to
download and install, coupled with sysadmin-oriented documentation
that helps them hook in the facilities to the rest of their
environment.  It would need to include, for example, options that
allowed the ISP to sell both shared JVM and standalone JVM
environments to their customers (probably for a lower and higher
price, respectively), with extra points for supporting goodies like
distributed applications.

The number of public webapps (no matter what the implementation
technology) is actually pretty small compared to the number of
applications (no matter what the impementation technology) behind the
firewall, so this situation isn't a total surprise ... but making it
easier for ISPs to provide a nice Java runtime environment would go a
long ways towards helping the availability of Java webapps on the
public part of the net.

> Jack H. Xu
> Technology columnist and editor

Craig

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