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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> on 2011/07/07 12:26:34 UTC
Future of OOo
As this list knows i will be speaking at the 6th ODF Plugfest on what
it means to OOo to be in the Apache Incubator. Since I am only a
mentor and not a committer my presentation will focus on the Apache
Way rather than the future of OOo. My intention is to communicate the
open and, in particular, the vendor neutral, environments that we need
to create for the Apache OO.o project to be a success.
However, I would like to spend a few minutes on the medium to long
term technical goals of the community today. I will use the original
incubator proposal to inform this section of my presentation. However,
if anyone on this list feels that I should highlight anything specific
please let me know and I'll do the best I can.
Similarly, if there is any specific "call to action" the community
would like me to make please suggest it here.
Ross
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ross,
Have you left for the 6th ODF Plugfest, Berlin Germany, July 14th - 15th 2011?
If you read this, please tell the public at the ODF Plugfest, "We will
find a way."
:)
My favorite part of the movie Jurassic Park is that Dr. Ian Malcolm
says, "Life finds a way."
The ODF is about the document freedom, freedom of expression and
something like that, right?
:)
It is about people with a computer, electricity and Internet
connection, anywhere on the earth or in the space, they can download
an ODF editor, irrespective of their platform or their language, they
can install it on their machine and use it in their language to create
documents, which can be sent and recieved and read by anyone on the
earth or in the space with a computer and electricity and Internet
connection, even 1000 years later, unless we extinct around that
future.
I suggest that, if you got really important documents which you want
people in 3000s to read, you should save them in ODF and at the same
time you should write them on a piece of Washi (Japanese paper) with
Sumi (black ink) and Fude (brush), and you should carve them on a
piece of stone or granite, because we have to be prepared for no
electricity and no Internet connection at the time of disaster.
:)
OOo and LO do not provide Calligraphy Tools or Stone Carving Tools but
ODF editor which we call Office Suite and we share the same purpose
for the document freedom. We don't have to fuse into something like
OpenLibreOffice.org and its community but we can collaborate.
http://s.apache.org/Bqj I share his dream. Many here share the
dream. Because we[1][2][3] together had been working very well and
reaching the very good stage of the continuous L10N[4], TCM@QUASTE[5],
Renaissance[6] and many others.
Actually several contribute to both OOo and LO. I do[7].
It is important for both OOo and LO to listen to its users, developers
and community members and get feedback from them and put everything on
the table and talk. We can talk anytime, we have got several channels
to talk.
:)
So "we will find a way" for collaboration between LO and OOo.
Have a good meeting and presentation at the plugfest.
Thanks,
khirano
[1] http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_poster.html#OOo2008
[2] http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_poster.html#l10n_1
[3] http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_poster.html#l10n_2
[4] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ContinuousL10n
[5] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/TCM_Integration_to_QUASTe_Documentation
[6] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance
[7] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/JA/Main_Page
.
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 7 July 2011 22:51, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> Asked for a screenshot? Here you are:
...
> http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:SO52_Desktopintegration.png&filetimestamp=20090521112446
Perfect, thank you.
Ross
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Asked for a screenshot? Here you are:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarOffice
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:SO52_Desktopintegration.png&filetimestamp=20090521112446
And already in German. ;-) I think for the license it should be OK when
you name the source.
When I remember correctly the version 6.0 was the first without all the
additional stuff.
HTH
Marcus
Am 07/07/2011 11:19 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
> I want to make it clear that I have absolutely no intention of talking
> about the past in this presentation. I am not a part of OOo's history,
> other than being a Star Office user way back when it had a browser,
> mail client and calendar in addition to the current tools in OOo. I
> remember a Star Office that, when you ran it you got a whole new
> "desktop" with its own "start" button.
>
> Since I am not a part of OOo history I cannot represent it accurately
> or impartially and I have no intention of trying to do so. I wonder if
> anyone has a screen-shot of the original Star Office "desktop", that
> might make a good slide against which I can explain that I will not be
> talking about history (unfortunately the wayback machine only goes
> back to mid 2000).
>
> In this session I will only be talking about what I know and
> understand. In this case that is the ASF and what it means for OOo to
> be in the Incubator. This question is about the latter part, what it
> means to the OO.o community (including users).
>
> Thank you to all who have commented so far. I'm only going to reply to
> questions that are directed at me, but naturally I am reading
> everything to ensure I am as well informed as possible. Please keep
> your comments coming, but lets keep them focussed on the future, not
> the past.
>
> Ross
>
> On 7 July 2011 11:26, Ross Gardler<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> As this list knows i will be speaking at the 6th ODF Plugfest on what
>> it means to OOo to be in the Apache Incubator. Since I am only a
>> mentor and not a committer my presentation will focus on the Apache
>> Way rather than the future of OOo. My intention is to communicate the
>> open and, in particular, the vendor neutral, environments that we need
>> to create for the Apache OO.o project to be a success.
>>
>> However, I would like to spend a few minutes on the medium to long
>> term technical goals of the community today. I will use the original
>> incubator proposal to inform this section of my presentation. However,
>> if anyone on this list feels that I should highlight anything specific
>> please let me know and I'll do the best I can.
>>
>> Similarly, if there is any specific "call to action" the community
>> would like me to make please suggest it here.
>>
>> Ross
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
I want to make it clear that I have absolutely no intention of talking
about the past in this presentation. I am not a part of OOo's history,
other than being a Star Office user way back when it had a browser,
mail client and calendar in addition to the current tools in OOo. I
remember a Star Office that, when you ran it you got a whole new
"desktop" with its own "start" button.
Since I am not a part of OOo history I cannot represent it accurately
or impartially and I have no intention of trying to do so. I wonder if
anyone has a screen-shot of the original Star Office "desktop", that
might make a good slide against which I can explain that I will not be
talking about history (unfortunately the wayback machine only goes
back to mid 2000).
In this session I will only be talking about what I know and
understand. In this case that is the ASF and what it means for OOo to
be in the Incubator. This question is about the latter part, what it
means to the OO.o community (including users).
Thank you to all who have commented so far. I'm only going to reply to
questions that are directed at me, but naturally I am reading
everything to ensure I am as well informed as possible. Please keep
your comments coming, but lets keep them focussed on the future, not
the past.
Ross
On 7 July 2011 11:26, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> As this list knows i will be speaking at the 6th ODF Plugfest on what
> it means to OOo to be in the Apache Incubator. Since I am only a
> mentor and not a committer my presentation will focus on the Apache
> Way rather than the future of OOo. My intention is to communicate the
> open and, in particular, the vendor neutral, environments that we need
> to create for the Apache OO.o project to be a success.
>
> However, I would like to spend a few minutes on the medium to long
> term technical goals of the community today. I will use the original
> incubator proposal to inform this section of my presentation. However,
> if anyone on this list feels that I should highlight anything specific
> please let me know and I'll do the best I can.
>
> Similarly, if there is any specific "call to action" the community
> would like me to make please suggest it here.
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
RE: Future of OOo
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Ross,
You might find some crisp talking points in the status report as well, since that text is being reviewed and will presumably be signed-off by a mentor before you embark for Berlin.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 13:55
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Future of OOo
On 7 July 2011 12:58, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> As this list knows i will be speaking at the 6th ODF Plugfest on what
>> it means to OOo to be in the Apache Incubator. Since I am only a
>> mentor and not a committer my presentation will focus on the Apache
>> Way rather than the future of OOo. My intention is to communicate the
>> open and, in particular, the vendor neutral, environments that we need
>> to create for the Apache OO.o project to be a success.
>>
>> However, I would like to spend a few minutes on the medium to long
>> term technical goals of the community today. I will use the original
>> incubator proposal to inform this section of my presentation. However,
>> if anyone on this list feels that I should highlight anything specific
>> please let me know and I'll do the best I can.
>>
>
> I assume you'll cover what Incubation at Apache is all about? The
> tasks necessary to graduate form the backbone of our medium-term plan.
Absolutely. The main body of the session will be about The Apache Way
and how incubation helps the community learn it and become a truly
sustainable Apache project (i.e. the graduation criteria).
Ross
> I'd also say "continuity for current OOo users".
>
>
>> Similarly, if there is any specific "call to action" the community
>> would like me to make please suggest it here.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Pedro Giffuni <gi...@tutopia.com>.
On Thu, 7 Jul 2011 21:55:08 +0100, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
...
>>
>> I assume you'll cover what Incubation at Apache is all about? The
>> tasks necessary to graduate form the backbone of our medium-term
>> plan.
>
> Absolutely. The main body of the session will be about The Apache Way
> and how incubation helps the community learn it and become a truly
> sustainable Apache project (i.e. the graduation criteria).
>
I think it would be interesting to see close relationships with
other Apache projects: Batik, PDFBox, and also more ODF support
elsewhere. It's a give and take relationship.
Cheers,
Pedro.
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 7 July 2011 12:58, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> As this list knows i will be speaking at the 6th ODF Plugfest on what
>> it means to OOo to be in the Apache Incubator. Since I am only a
>> mentor and not a committer my presentation will focus on the Apache
>> Way rather than the future of OOo. My intention is to communicate the
>> open and, in particular, the vendor neutral, environments that we need
>> to create for the Apache OO.o project to be a success.
>>
>> However, I would like to spend a few minutes on the medium to long
>> term technical goals of the community today. I will use the original
>> incubator proposal to inform this section of my presentation. However,
>> if anyone on this list feels that I should highlight anything specific
>> please let me know and I'll do the best I can.
>>
>
> I assume you'll cover what Incubation at Apache is all about? The
> tasks necessary to graduate form the backbone of our medium-term plan.
Absolutely. The main body of the session will be about The Apache Way
and how incubation helps the community learn it and become a truly
sustainable Apache project (i.e. the graduation criteria).
Ross
> I'd also say "continuity for current OOo users".
>
>
>> Similarly, if there is any specific "call to action" the community
>> would like me to make please suggest it here.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> As this list knows i will be speaking at the 6th ODF Plugfest on what
> it means to OOo to be in the Apache Incubator. Since I am only a
> mentor and not a committer my presentation will focus on the Apache
> Way rather than the future of OOo. My intention is to communicate the
> open and, in particular, the vendor neutral, environments that we need
> to create for the Apache OO.o project to be a success.
>
> However, I would like to spend a few minutes on the medium to long
> term technical goals of the community today. I will use the original
> incubator proposal to inform this section of my presentation. However,
> if anyone on this list feels that I should highlight anything specific
> please let me know and I'll do the best I can.
>
I assume you'll cover what Incubation at Apache is all about? The
tasks necessary to graduate form the backbone of our medium-term plan.
I'd also say "continuity for current OOo users".
> Similarly, if there is any specific "call to action" the community
> would like me to make please suggest it here.
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
RE: Future of OOo
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
+1
What matters now is the task before us and how we sustain a community of interests. We must find where are common purposes bind us together, not more reasons for alienation. There are concrete differences between the two efforts, those are not likely to change, and we must find alignments that respects that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Phipps [mailto:simon@webmink.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 09:21
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Future of OOo
[ ... ]
The original OpenOffice.org project is no more and that there are now two projects taking the code forward. Seems easy enough to understand and gives no scope for arguing about who is to blame for what. And uses neither the word "split" or "fork" :-)
S.
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On 7 Jul 2011, at 17:10, IngridvdM wrote:
> Am 07.07.2011 17:26, schrieb Simon Phipps:
>>
>> On 7 Jul 2011, at 16:03, IngridvdM wrote:
>>
>>> Am 07.07.2011 12:56, schrieb Donald Harbison:
>>> [...]
>>>> The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of two new open
>>>> source projects
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> I would like to change this part of the description. I think it should be made absolute clear to the public that the split of the community has happened before and completely independent from the donation of OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation. The creation of LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
>>
>> While I understand why you believe this, I think it's unhelpful "framing" that's likely to perpetuate division. I prefer Don's approach, which takes a higher-level view of what has happened.
>>
>
> Not being precise on the historic facts here and creating or only allowing the wrong impression that the Apache OpenOffice has caused the split of the community will do harm to this project. It will also hinder the healing process between the communities. So if you are interested in the welfare of both communities and the healing between them, help to handle this with more care.
The original OpenOffice.org project is no more and that there are now two projects taking the code forward. Seems easy enough to understand and gives no scope for arguing about who is to blame for what. And uses neither the word "split" or "fork" :-)
S.
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Andrew Rist <an...@oracle.com>.
apologies - bad form on my part.
Andrew
On 7/7/2011 11:19 AM, Andrew Rist wrote:
> I know it's soap opera stuff - but here, a Simon slap-down....
>
>
> Oracle Email Signature Logo
> Andrew Rist | Interoperability Architect
> Oracle Corporate Architecture Group
> Redwood Shores, CA | 650.506.9847
>
> On 7/7/2011 9:10 AM, IngridvdM wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
>>
>> Am 07.07.2011 17:26, schrieb Simon Phipps:
>>>
>>> On 7 Jul 2011, at 16:03, IngridvdM wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Donald, Ross, all,
>>>>
>>>> Am 07.07.2011 12:56, schrieb Donald Harbison:
>>>> [...]
>>>>> The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of
>>>>> two new open
>>>>> source projects
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> I would like to change this part of the description. I think it
>>>> should be made absolute clear to the public that the split of the
>>>> community has happened before and completely independent from the
>>>> donation of OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation. The
>>>> creation of LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
>>>
>>> While I understand why you believe this, I think it's unhelpful
>>> "framing" that's likely to perpetuate division. I prefer Don's
>>> approach, which takes a higher-level view of what has happened.
>>>
>>
>> Not being precise on the historic facts here and creating or only
>> allowing the wrong impression that the Apache OpenOffice has caused
>> the split of the community will do harm to this project. It will also
>> hinder the healing process between the communities. So if you are
>> interested in the welfare of both communities and the healing between
>> them, help to handle this with more care.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ingrid
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Andrew Rist <an...@oracle.com>.
I know it's soap opera stuff - but here, a Simon slap-down....
Oracle Email Signature Logo
Andrew Rist | Interoperability Architect
Oracle Corporate Architecture Group
Redwood Shores, CA | 650.506.9847
On 7/7/2011 9:10 AM, IngridvdM wrote:
> Hi Simon,
>
> Am 07.07.2011 17:26, schrieb Simon Phipps:
>>
>> On 7 Jul 2011, at 16:03, IngridvdM wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Donald, Ross, all,
>>>
>>> Am 07.07.2011 12:56, schrieb Donald Harbison:
>>> [...]
>>>> The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of two
>>>> new open
>>>> source projects
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> I would like to change this part of the description. I think it
>>> should be made absolute clear to the public that the split of the
>>> community has happened before and completely independent from the
>>> donation of OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation. The
>>> creation of LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
>>
>> While I understand why you believe this, I think it's unhelpful
>> "framing" that's likely to perpetuate division. I prefer Don's
>> approach, which takes a higher-level view of what has happened.
>>
>
> Not being precise on the historic facts here and creating or only
> allowing the wrong impression that the Apache OpenOffice has caused
> the split of the community will do harm to this project. It will also
> hinder the healing process between the communities. So if you are
> interested in the welfare of both communities and the healing between
> them, help to handle this with more care.
>
> Thanks,
> Ingrid
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by IngridvdM <In...@gmx-topmail.de>.
Hi Simon,
Am 07.07.2011 17:26, schrieb Simon Phipps:
>
> On 7 Jul 2011, at 16:03, IngridvdM wrote:
>
>> Hi Donald, Ross, all,
>>
>> Am 07.07.2011 12:56, schrieb Donald Harbison:
>> [...]
>>> The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of two new open
>>> source projects
>> [...]
>>
>> I would like to change this part of the description. I think it should be made absolute clear to the public that the split of the community has happened before and completely independent from the donation of OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation. The creation of LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
>
> While I understand why you believe this, I think it's unhelpful "framing" that's likely to perpetuate division. I prefer Don's approach, which takes a higher-level view of what has happened.
>
Not being precise on the historic facts here and creating or only
allowing the wrong impression that the Apache OpenOffice has caused the
split of the community will do harm to this project. It will also hinder
the healing process between the communities. So if you are interested in
the welfare of both communities and the healing between them, help to
handle this with more care.
Thanks,
Ingrid
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On 7 Jul 2011, at 16:03, IngridvdM wrote:
> Hi Donald, Ross, all,
>
> Am 07.07.2011 12:56, schrieb Donald Harbison:
> [...]
>> The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of two new open
>> source projects
> [...]
>
> I would like to change this part of the description. I think it should be made absolute clear to the public that the split of the community has happened before and completely independent from the donation of OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation. The creation of LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
While I understand why you believe this, I think it's unhelpful "framing" that's likely to perpetuate division. I prefer Don's approach, which takes a higher-level view of what has happened.
Cheers,
S.
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by IngridvdM <In...@gmx-topmail.de>.
Am 07.07.2011 17:03, schrieb IngridvdM:
Let me add a small correction to myself:
> The creation of
> LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
>
To be on the safe side one should better say:
LibreOffice/TDF has been announced already last year in 2010.
I am not totally sure about the exact state and dates of the legal
processes of creation so someone might object the statement about
'creation' in 2010. That would needlessly complicate the discussion.
Kind regards,
Ingrid
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:03 AM, IngridvdM <In...@gmx-topmail.de> wrote:
> Hi Donald, Ross, all,
>
> Am 07.07.2011 12:56, schrieb Donald Harbison:
> [...]
>>
>> The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of two new
>> open
>> source projects
>
> [...]
>
> I would like to change this part of the description. I think it should be
> made absolute clear to the public that the split of the community has
> happened before and completely independent from the donation of
> OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation. The creation of
> LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
>
> Even before LibreOffice there already has existed a fork called Go-oo. I
> think it was created by Novell and used by several Linux distros. Go-oo was
> abandoned then in favor of LibreOffice. Looking at the overview picture of
> the different OpenOffice flavor releases
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recall&rev=207#Community
> one can see that a Go-oo 2.3.0 was already released in year 2007.
>
> That shows that a split of the community at least in terms of license issues
> has a history of several years already.
>
> In the beginning there have been several upstream offers from go-oo to
> OpenOffice.org. At developer level we had good working relationships I would
> say. For example I worked together with Kohei on some stuff he was
> interested in. So I know the cooperation even over license barrier was
> possible and I hope we can get back to that state again.
>
> Let me cite from the go-oo home page (http://go-oo.org/) as it is still
> online today 7/7/2011:
>
> "We believe that copyright assignment to a single corporate entity opens the
> door for substantial abuse of the best interests of the codebase and
> developer community. As such, we prefer either eclectic ownership (cf.
> Mozilla, GNOME, KDE, Linux), or an independent, meritocratic foundation (cf.
> Eclipse, Apache) to own the rights. Having said that we recognise and
> applaud Sun's technical contribution to OpenOffice and recommend that small
> patches & fixes to existing Sun code should be assigned to them under the
> SCA, and up-streamed."
>
> Especially I want to highlight that go-oo itself has recommended Apache as
> one of the preferred solutions with regards to the corporate ownership
> problem.
>
That is an interesting quote. I see similar sentiments expressed a
few months later on Michael's blog:
"Wrt. copyright assignment, yes it's good to keep unified copyright
assignment for (hopefully extremely rare) changes of Free software
license etc. The problem lies not with the license, but the idea that
a single company, with it's own agenda, having set itself up as the
sole owner of an open source project, will then always act in that
project's best interest. That just seems unrealistic, and the bigger
the company - IMHO - the less likely it is. Now - a meritocratically
constituted foundation, to which all code / translation etc.
contributors belonged, with some truly representative governance - I'd
love to belong to something like that & assign my rights to it."
http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2007-10-03.html
So I think it would have likely been true, that if Apache OpenOffice
had started back then, in 2007, that everyone, including Novell, would
have joined. The issue at that time was not about the copyleft
license. It was about corporate versus community control. However,
this does not mean that the issues are the same today. The creation
of LibreOffice changes things. This is not a purely rational,
technical/economic decision. It is tied up as well with emotions and
self-identification. The emotions may cool over time. But how a
person identifies themselves is not so easy to change. And I don't
think it is our business to try. I think the ultimate goal should be
to share as much code and other project work as possible, in terms of
reuse, while allowing down stream consumers to identify themselves
however they want to. That is the beauty of the permissive license.
> So the question now is whether the reasons that have caused
> go-oo/LibreOffice to stop contribute upstream are solved
> or whether new problems are born that hinder cooperation now.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ingrid
>
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by IngridvdM <In...@gmx-topmail.de>.
Hi Donald, Ross, all,
Am 07.07.2011 12:56, schrieb Donald Harbison:
[...]
> The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of two new open
> source projects
[...]
I would like to change this part of the description. I think it should
be made absolute clear to the public that the split of the community has
happened before and completely independent from the donation of
OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation. The creation of
LibreOffice/TDF has happend already last year in 2010.
Even before LibreOffice there already has existed a fork called Go-oo. I
think it was created by Novell and used by several Linux distros. Go-oo
was abandoned then in favor of LibreOffice. Looking at the overview
picture of the different OpenOffice flavor releases
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recall&rev=207#Community
one can see that a Go-oo 2.3.0 was already released in year 2007.
That shows that a split of the community at least in terms of license
issues has a history of several years already.
In the beginning there have been several upstream offers from go-oo to
OpenOffice.org. At developer level we had good working relationships I
would say. For example I worked together with Kohei on some stuff he was
interested in. So I know the cooperation even over license barrier was
possible and I hope we can get back to that state again.
Let me cite from the go-oo home page (http://go-oo.org/) as it is still
online today 7/7/2011:
"We believe that copyright assignment to a single corporate entity opens
the door for substantial abuse of the best interests of the codebase and
developer community. As such, we prefer either eclectic ownership (cf.
Mozilla, GNOME, KDE, Linux), or an independent, meritocratic foundation
(cf. Eclipse, Apache) to own the rights. Having said that we recognise
and applaud Sun's technical contribution to OpenOffice and recommend
that small patches & fixes to existing Sun code should be assigned to
them under the SCA, and up-streamed."
Especially I want to highlight that go-oo itself has recommended Apache
as one of the preferred solutions with regards to the corporate
ownership problem.
So the question now is whether the reasons that have caused
go-oo/LibreOffice to stop contribute upstream are solved
or whether new problems are born that hinder cooperation now.
Kind regards,
Ingrid
Re: Future of OOo
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ross,
Let's ensure an emphasis on this statement from the Rationale:
"ASF would enable corporate, non-profit, and volunteer
stakeholders to contribute
code in a collaborative fashion."
The ASF's inclusive approach combined with the the recognition of
LibreOffice community as an important and valued partner...
*
*
"The Apache OpenOffice project will seek to build a constructive
working and technical relationship so that the source code
developed at Apache can be readily used downstream
by LibreOffice, as well as exploring ways for their upstream
contributions to be integrated.."
...will help the audience to better understand why Apache has such a broad
and diverse range
of projects, with its decade+ record of success.
The end of a corporate controlled project, and the beginning of two new open
source projects with
essentially one community committed to improving the best, free and open
source
alternative(s) to the dominant proprietary offering....is an historically
significant event in the
software industry.
Therefore, a call-to-action, needs to focus on identifying all the areas of
collaboration
available within community of shared interests as suggested...
"There will be other ways we will be able to collaborate, including jointly
sponsored events,
interoperability 'plugfests', standards development, shared build management
infrastructure,
shared release mirrors, coordination of build schedules and version numbers,
defect lists, and
other downstream requirements. We will make this relationship a priority
early in the life of the
podlet."
/don
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> As this list knows i will be speaking at the 6th ODF Plugfest on what
> it means to OOo to be in the Apache Incubator. Since I am only a
> mentor and not a committer my presentation will focus on the Apache
> Way rather than the future of OOo. My intention is to communicate the
> open and, in particular, the vendor neutral, environments that we need
> to create for the Apache OO.o project to be a success.
>
> However, I would like to spend a few minutes on the medium to long
> term technical goals of the community today. I will use the original
> incubator proposal to inform this section of my presentation. However,
> if anyone on this list feels that I should highlight anything specific
> please let me know and I'll do the best I can.
>
> Similarly, if there is any specific "call to action" the community
> would like me to make please suggest it here.
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>