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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2009/01/23 01:32:21 UTC
[DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
file as well. Thoughts?
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Robert Zeigler <ro...@scazdl.org>.
Yuck. :)
I know hibernate is "all the rage" now, but, honestly, it's not /that/
hard to go add a dependency.
I prefer the cleaner archetype that doesn't make assumptions about
what technology stack you'll be using, other than tapestry.
Robert
On Jan 22, 2009, at 1/226:32 PM , Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
> file as well. Thoughts?
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Francois Armand <fa...@linagora.com>.
Christian Edward Gruber wrote:
> If you're going to do that, you should probably include a basic value
> object with a sample property and a DAO configured as a T5 service to
> allow someone to know what you're talking about. Just wiring up
> Hibernate isn't as helpful. Though we're starting to talk about a
> jump-start-esque thing at this point.
>
> By no means am I suggesting don't do it, but it could be more
> confusing if you did it without the last little pieces. Really it
> sounds like a different archetype to me.
>
I also agree with that. For now, I never use T5-hibernate in any
project. I'm perhaps a special case, but I dealt with a T5-LDAP project
(no hibernate), a T5 front-end on top of a Spring-based
busines/persistence layer (hibernate was used, but handled by spring), a
T5-JCR project (again, hibernate wasn't in the scope of T5).
So, that's my first argument : T5-hibernate isn't a common dependency
for every one.
Secondly, has Christian said, if all the matter is to have the
dependency in the pom, I think it's just useless. It's kind of five
lines to add in a file.
At contrario, if the aim is to demonstrate in the quickstart app HOW
(simply) T5-hibernate works, the goal seems _really_ interesting: it
demonstrates common idioms, bring best practices into ligth, etc. But in
this case, the quickstart should be able to really demonstrate the use
of T5-hibernate, and so comes we the full stack (a domain object, a dao
service or the direct entity persistence strategy, and a DB). But that
is more and more looking like a small tutorial...
So, to sum up:
- I don't see the point at ONLY having T5-hibernate in the POM ;
- I clearly see the advantage at having a full persistence example ;
- I thing, but I'm almost certainly biased here, that having
T5-hibernate in a project is not the vast majority of T5 project, and so
should not be in the simplest quickstart.
At this point, I'm thinking again at what I just say... And in fact, I
use quickestart only for test / demo app, in a bigger project, I almost
always build the app from strach, and just copy/past what part of the
pom I need. So perhaps it just doesn't matter to have to remove
T5-Hibernate in a really, more-than-five-minutes-spent project, and I
may be a good plus for a demo/test (but I maintain that I would like to
be able to really use persistence as soon the quickstart is finished)
So, it seems that I have no definitive idea on the subject... Best
solution: 2 quickstart, a ligth and a full-stack ; but I could see why
having only the second one is OK.
--
Francois Armand
Etudes & Développements J2EE
Groupe Linagora - http://www.linagora.com
Tél.: +33 (0)1 58 18 68 28
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Christian Edward Gruber <ch...@gmail.com>.
If you're going to do that, you should probably include a basic value
object with a sample property and a DAO configured as a T5 service to
allow someone to know what you're talking about. Just wiring up
Hibernate isn't as helpful. Though we're starting to talk about a jump-
start-esque thing at this point.
By no means am I suggesting don't do it, but it could be more
confusing if you did it without the last little pieces. Really it
sounds like a different archetype to me.
Christian.
On 22-Jan-09, at 19:32 , Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
> file as well. Thoughts?
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
Christian Edward Gruber
christianedwardgruber@gmail.com
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by José Paumard <Jo...@orange.fr>.
I think the archetype is fine as it is. IMHO adding the Hibernate
support would confuse things (what to remove, what to keep), especially
for beginners who are going to use this archetype. I'm developing my 4th
T5 project, and I dont use the archetype any more. So maybe my point of
view (archetype is for beginners) is biased.
BTW if you use Hibernate with annotations or through JPA you dont need
hibernate.cfg.xml. So adding it might add to the confusion.
José
Howard Lewis Ship a écrit :
> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
> file as well. Thoughts?
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
As dbms choice and database setup (dialect, connection, pool
configuration) are highly individual and need to be done manually either
way, I don't see the need to include a dependency on tapestry-hibernate
in the quickstart just so that a potential user doesn't have to add it
to his POM by himself.
It would be different though, if we shipped the quickstart with a
dependency on HSQLDB (and a working hibernate.cfg.xml for it) and some
example entities.
Uli
Howard Lewis Ship schrieb:
> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
> file as well. Thoughts?
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Thiago HP <th...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm of the opinion that it's easier to remove unwanted stuff than add
> it in.
Tapestry-hibernate, when it is in the classpath, tries to create a
SessionFactory. So, if someone wants the Tapestry archetype without
Hibernate, at first he/she will have an exception. This has happened
in this list at least two times, as far as I can remember.
This way, I don't think the Tapestry archetype must not have
Tapestry-Hibernate. I also agree with Francois arguments.
--
Thiago
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
I'm of the opinion that it's easier to remove unwanted stuff than add
it in. I really don't want to maintain two archetypes, but the other
developers are beginning to be more active, so maybe my bandwidth
shouldn't be the deciding factor.
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Em Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:32:21 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
> escreveu:
>
>> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
>> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
>> file as well. Thoughts?
>
> What about having two quickstarts, one with Hibernate and other with
> Hibernate? It will result in more work for Howard, but I think it will be
> way better for Tapestry newbies that are Hiberante newbies too.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
>
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>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
Em Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:32:21 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
escreveu:
> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
> file as well. Thoughts?
What about having two quickstarts, one with Hibernate and other with
Hibernate? It will result in more work for Howard, but I think it will be
way better for Tapestry newbies that are Hiberante newbies too.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
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Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Szemere Szemere <sz...@googlemail.com>.
Why not include the config needed for tapestry-hibernate in the pom, but
comment it out. That way you don't automatically get the cruft if you don't
want hibernate, but if you do it's really easy to figure out how to include
it.
Szemere
Re: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by Daniel Jue <te...@gmail.com>.
I don't think Hibernate should be added in the quickstart. Just having an
in-memory DAO is good enough, and a wiki page on adding t5-hibernate to the
vanilla (plain) quickstart can be added.
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Robert, Brice <
Brice.Robert@alliancebernstein.com> wrote:
> -- No -- Hibernate dependency
>
> But sample class using an annotation to access a service DAO that uses
> Mock Objects (Using Spring or Juice) would be great.
>
> I use:
> - T5 for HTML/CSS/JavaScript,
> - SmartGwt (SmartClient / GWT) for AJAX
> - Spring for DI (Using Annotations)
> - DAO Access through JPA, JMS, JAXB (used to be XmlBeans)
> - DTO Objects are copied from JPA classes or JMS result using
> BeanUtils.copyProperties
> - JPA implementation is either Hibernate or Toplink
> - JMS implementation is either ActiveMQ or WebSphere MQ
>
> Beauty is, with DAO Access I just can use whatever integration
> (data)layer I need.
>
> I am now in the process of creating a T5/GWT OSGI bundle for OSGI
> servers (springsource-DM or ServiceMix)
> Goal is to dynamically load and change the UI according to business
> needs -- total separation of concern -- and to finally use cloud/grid
> computing like Amazon and Google. So my customers don't have to waste
> money by buying hardware pretexting Java is too heavy.
>
> Brice
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hlship@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:32 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
> tapestry-hibernate?
>
> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
> file as well. Thoughts?
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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RE: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by "Robert, Brice" <Br...@alliancebernstein.com>.
-- No -- Hibernate dependency
But sample class using an annotation to access a service DAO that uses
Mock Objects (Using Spring or Juice) would be great.
I use:
- T5 for HTML/CSS/JavaScript,
- SmartGwt (SmartClient / GWT) for AJAX
- Spring for DI (Using Annotations)
- DAO Access through JPA, JMS, JAXB (used to be XmlBeans)
- DTO Objects are copied from JPA classes or JMS result using
BeanUtils.copyProperties
- JPA implementation is either Hibernate or Toplink
- JMS implementation is either ActiveMQ or WebSphere MQ
Beauty is, with DAO Access I just can use whatever integration
(data)layer I need.
I am now in the process of creating a T5/GWT OSGI bundle for OSGI
servers (springsource-DM or ServiceMix)
Goal is to dynamically load and change the UI according to business
needs -- total separation of concern -- and to finally use cloud/grid
computing like Amazon and Google. So my customers don't have to waste
money by buying hardware pretexting Java is too heavy.
Brice
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hlship@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:32 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
tapestry-hibernate?
The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
file as well. Thoughts?
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
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The information contained in the linked e-mail transmission and any
attachments may be privileged and confidential and is intended only for
the use of the person(s) named in the linked e-mail transmission. If you
are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, you should not
review, disseminate, distribute or duplicate this e-mail transmission or
any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message. We do not accept account orders and/or instructions
related to AllianceBernstein products or services by e-mail, and
therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/or
instructions. The linked e-mail transmission and any attachments are
provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed in
any manner as any solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment
opportunities or any related financial instruments and should not be
construed in any manner as a public offer of any investment
opportunities or any related financial instruments. If you, as the
intended recipient of the linked e-mail transmission, the purpose of
which is to inform and update our clients, prospects and consultants of
developments relating to our services and products, would not like to
receive further e-mail correspondence from the sender, please "reply"
to the sender indicating your wishes. Although we attempt to sweep
e-mail and attachments for viruses, we will not be liable for any
damages arising from the alteration of the contents of this linked e-mail
transmission and any attachments by a third party or as a result of any
virus being passed on. Please note: Trading instructions sent
electronically to Bernstein shall not be deemed accepted until a
representative of Bernstein acknowledges receipt electronically or by
telephone. Comments in the linked e-mail transmission and any
attachments are part of a larger body of investment analysis. For our
research reports, which contain information that may be used to
support investment decisions, and disclosures, see our website at
www.bernsteinresearch.com.
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RE: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include
tapestry-hibernate?
Posted by "Blower, Andy" <An...@proquest.co.uk>.
I would say not to, create another quickstart if you feel there's an audience. I know that at the stage I found the QS Archetype useful, having to remove Hibernate would not have been a welcome or easy task.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hlship@gmail.com]
> Sent: 23 January 2009 00:32
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Should the quickstart archetype include tapestry-
> hibernate?
>
> The title says it all. It would be very easy to include
> tapestry-hibernate as a dependency, and a minimal hibernate.cfg.xml
> file as well. Thoughts?
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
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