A bit off topic, but...

[Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>]

Sorry to put this on the dev list, but the folks who read this are also some
of the "heavy hitters" on the user list....

I'm seeing questions on the users list of the form "help, it doesn't work",
which then requires people to guess, ask for clarification, etc.  I often
try to grab them long enough to ask for more information and take some of
the load off the folks who really know things, but I'm starting to get
frustrated with the number of really vague posts that require three
back-and-forths before anything useful comes of it.

In, I admit, 2 minutes of looking I couldn't find anything on the SOLR site
about how to use the user's list.

Would it be useful If I created a much gentler (and shorter) version of
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html? If it'd be useful, is it
worth putting on the SOLR website? Or maybe Chris would be willing to put it
on his apache page so we could link to it easily.

My goal here would be to have something welcoming (the above is pretty darn
off-putting, even if it accurately reflects my reactions sometime), but at
the same time conveying that there are things the poster can do to 1> get
answers much more quickly and 2> stop wasting everyone's time (OK, a little
frustration there).

I know my first questions on the Lucene list sure could have used a bit of
etiquette guidance, but I'm not sure I'd have appreciated something in the
tone of the link above. That said, I'm tired of typing the same request for
more information over and over and over.......

Or, someone could say "Do you mean this page <url here>" and I'll just blush
in the privacy of my study....

Whaddya think?

Erick

Re: A bit off topic, but...

[Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>]

OK, there's a first cut at this page up on the Wiki, see:

http://wiki.apache.org/solr/UsingMailingLists.html

I linked to it off the FAQ, I just added a link from the "Are there mailing
lists for SOLR" section at:
http://wiki.apache.org/solr/FAQ#Are_there_Mailing_lists_for_Solr.3F

I *think* I got the links right, although it took a few tries. Some of which
I forgot to comment on, sorry 'bout that.

I'm not sure whether it's too long or not. My intention here is to have a
page we can direct people to with some admonition like "please read this and
repost your question". I don't think it should turn into a list of specific
problem solutions. But I can see expanding it with other categories like:
> memory issues
> search performance
> multiple cores
> <fill in your favorite topic here>

With the caveat that for each, all the page should do is identify the
information the poster should include when asking for help rather than
solutions. If we bury the "how to ask" in a thousand lines of possible
solutions, eyes will glaze over....

Best
Erick

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Yonik Seeley <yo...@lucidimagination.com>wrote:

> I think something would definitely be useful.
> Something *short* that people will read and can actually follow.
> Something that tells them what we will ask first in trying to diagnose
> a problem.
> Something/somewhere that they will be likely to run across before
> posting a question.
>
> Maybe right near the top of the solr faq or something?
> Along the lines of "If you're having a problem with X, ... post to
> solr-user with A B, C"
> We should keep the list small, or give different lists depending on
> the problem. We don't want people to have to fill out a 10 page form
> to ask for help :-)
>
> -Yonik
> http://www.lucidimagination.com
>
> On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Sorry to put this on the dev list, but the folks who read this are also
> some
> > of the "heavy hitters" on the user list....
> >
> > I'm seeing questions on the users list of the form "help, it doesn't
> work",
> > which then requires people to guess, ask for clarification, etc.  I often
> > try to grab them long enough to ask for more information and take some of
> > the load off the folks who really know things, but I'm starting to get
> > frustrated with the number of really vague posts that require three
> > back-and-forths before anything useful comes of it.
> >
> > In, I admit, 2 minutes of looking I couldn't find anything on the SOLR
> site
> > about how to use the user's list.
> >
> > Would it be useful If I created a much gentler (and shorter) version of
> > http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html<http://catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html>?
> If it'd be useful, is it
> > worth putting on the SOLR website? Or maybe Chris would be willing to put
> it
> > on his apache page so we could link to it easily.
> >
> > My goal here would be to have something welcoming (the above is pretty
> darn
> > off-putting, even if it accurately reflects my reactions sometime), but
> at
> > the same time conveying that there are things the poster can do to 1> get
> > answers much more quickly and 2> stop wasting everyone's time (OK, a
> little
> > frustration there).
> >
> > I know my first questions on the Lucene list sure could have used a bit
> of
> > etiquette guidance, but I'm not sure I'd have appreciated something in
> the
> > tone of the link above. That said, I'm tired of typing the same request
> for
> > more information over and over and over.......
> >
> > Or, someone could say "Do you mean this page <url here>" and I'll just
> blush
> > in the privacy of my study....
> >
> > Whaddya think?
> >
> > Erick
> >
>

Re: A bit off topic, but...

[Yonik Seeley <yo...@lucidimagination.com>]

I think something would definitely be useful.
Something *short* that people will read and can actually follow.
Something that tells them what we will ask first in trying to diagnose
a problem.
Something/somewhere that they will be likely to run across before
posting a question.

Maybe right near the top of the solr faq or something?
Along the lines of "If you're having a problem with X, ... post to
solr-user with A B, C"
We should keep the list small, or give different lists depending on
the problem. We don't want people to have to fill out a 10 page form
to ask for help :-)

-Yonik
http://www.lucidimagination.com

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry to put this on the dev list, but the folks who read this are also some
> of the "heavy hitters" on the user list....
>
> I'm seeing questions on the users list of the form "help, it doesn't work",
> which then requires people to guess, ask for clarification, etc.  I often
> try to grab them long enough to ask for more information and take some of
> the load off the folks who really know things, but I'm starting to get
> frustrated with the number of really vague posts that require three
> back-and-forths before anything useful comes of it.
>
> In, I admit, 2 minutes of looking I couldn't find anything on the SOLR site
> about how to use the user's list.
>
> Would it be useful If I created a much gentler (and shorter) version of
> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html? If it'd be useful, is it
> worth putting on the SOLR website? Or maybe Chris would be willing to put it
> on his apache page so we could link to it easily.
>
> My goal here would be to have something welcoming (the above is pretty darn
> off-putting, even if it accurately reflects my reactions sometime), but at
> the same time conveying that there are things the poster can do to 1> get
> answers much more quickly and 2> stop wasting everyone's time (OK, a little
> frustration there).
>
> I know my first questions on the Lucene list sure could have used a bit of
> etiquette guidance, but I'm not sure I'd have appreciated something in the
> tone of the link above. That said, I'm tired of typing the same request for
> more information over and over and over.......
>
> Or, someone could say "Do you mean this page <url here>" and I'll just blush
> in the privacy of my study....
>
> Whaddya think?
>
> Erick
>