Re: Postpone Apache Ignite 2.5 release to fix baseline topology

[Andrey Gura <ag...@apache.org>]

Igniters,

I believe BLT is serious usability problem but rush isn't good idea
because can lead to new bugs. As release manager I think that we
should move BLT fix to Apache Ignite 2.6 release and focus on issues
included to the AI 2.5 release scope.
I also want inform you that code freeze is planned for Friday, May 11.

Thanks!

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 8:44 PM, Dmitry Pavlov <dp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Dmitriy,
>
> As far as I understand manual activation will not be required for in-memory
> mode (same for persistence). Change means we will change node state from
> 'joined-inactive' to 'joined-active' according to that user defined in
> policy (cluster grow policy).
>
> Default will be allow to rebalance data to joined node, probably, with some
> delay. This detail will be defenetely discussed at dev list before
> implementation.
>
> Pros: Persistent users will not be facing with disabled rebalancing in case
> of node left - (BL)AT will be changed automatically. This also be handled
> by cluster shrink policy for both in-memory and durable cases.
>
> Sincerely,
> Dmitriy Pavlov
>
> сб, 28 апр. 2018 г. в 21:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>:
>
>> Can someone explain what is the before and after effect for this change
>> from the usability standpoint. If we are changing BLT for the in-memory
>> mode, which is the default, then we must think through all the usability
>> consequences ahead of time. Otherwise, the perception will be that the
>> product stopped working because someone did not know to activate the
>> cluster.
>>
>> D.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Denis Magda <dm...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm backing up Vladimir's proposal to fix the behavior in 2.5 if it's not
>> > time-consuming. To give you a bit more context on the subj, here is why
>> we
>> > should have the fix to be delivered in 2.5:
>> > http://apache-ignite-users.70518.x6.nabble.com/Problems-
>> > with-persistence-and-partitioned-cache-in-2-4-0-td21325.html
>> >
>> > Frankly, it's not the first time I see similar complaints from those who
>> > are on 2.4.
>> >
>> > Alex G., Vovan, how hard is it to fix this?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Denis
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:56 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <vo...@gridgain.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Yakov,
>> > >
>> > > Messages would help users understand what is wrong earlier, but will
>> not
>> > > protect them from additional maintenance which is required in AI 2.4
>> and
>> > is
>> > > supposed to be removed in next AI releases.
>> > > Please note that in IEP-4 topic I proposed alternative solution -
>> release
>> > > AI 2.5 now, but then release AI 2.6 as soon as BLT is fixed. I.e. it
>> > would
>> > > be emergency release.
>> > >
>> > > Both approaches works for me, the main goal is to deliver original
>> > defaults
>> > > ASAP. However, approach with a single release looks better to me
>> because
>> > it
>> > > will minimize number of migrations for users.
>> > >
>> > > Vladimir.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <yz...@apache.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Guys, how about we release 2.5 in the nearest future after adding
>> > proper
>> > > > usability log messages that will explain user what to do and also
>> > output
>> > > > link to readme.io with the first BLT related message during node
>> > uptime.
>> > > > This should not take much time and we can use the same messages when
>> we
>> > > > have (BL)AT modes in 2.6. I think that adding messages makes sense
>> and
>> > > > should be clear for users which is not the case for 2.4.
>> > > >
>> > > > --Yakov
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>

Re: Postpone Apache Ignite 2.5 release to fix baseline topology

[Andrey Gura <ag...@apache.org>]

Dmitry,

additional BLT related logging is already added. I hope it will help
users to understand BLT better.

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
> Completely support the decision to move any BLT behavior changes to 2.6.
> However, in 2.5 we need to add usability log messages, which I believe we
> already have.
>
> D.
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Andrey Gura <ag...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Igniters,
>>
>> I believe BLT is serious usability problem but rush isn't good idea
>> because can lead to new bugs. As release manager I think that we
>> should move BLT fix to Apache Ignite 2.6 release and focus on issues
>> included to the AI 2.5 release scope.
>> I also want inform you that code freeze is planned for Friday, May 11.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 8:44 PM, Dmitry Pavlov <dp...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Dmitriy,
>> >
>> > As far as I understand manual activation will not be required for
>> in-memory
>> > mode (same for persistence). Change means we will change node state from
>> > 'joined-inactive' to 'joined-active' according to that user defined in
>> > policy (cluster grow policy).
>> >
>> > Default will be allow to rebalance data to joined node, probably, with
>> some
>> > delay. This detail will be defenetely discussed at dev list before
>> > implementation.
>> >
>> > Pros: Persistent users will not be facing with disabled rebalancing in
>> case
>> > of node left - (BL)AT will be changed automatically. This also be handled
>> > by cluster shrink policy for both in-memory and durable cases.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Dmitriy Pavlov
>> >
>> > сб, 28 апр. 2018 г. в 21:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>:
>> >
>> >> Can someone explain what is the before and after effect for this change
>> >> from the usability standpoint. If we are changing BLT for the in-memory
>> >> mode, which is the default, then we must think through all the usability
>> >> consequences ahead of time. Otherwise, the perception will be that the
>> >> product stopped working because someone did not know to activate the
>> >> cluster.
>> >>
>> >> D.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Denis Magda <dm...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I'm backing up Vladimir's proposal to fix the behavior in 2.5 if it's
>> not
>> >> > time-consuming. To give you a bit more context on the subj, here is
>> why
>> >> we
>> >> > should have the fix to be delivered in 2.5:
>> >> > http://apache-ignite-users.70518.x6.nabble.com/Problems-
>> >> > with-persistence-and-partitioned-cache-in-2-4-0-td21325.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Frankly, it's not the first time I see similar complaints from those
>> who
>> >> > are on 2.4.
>> >> >
>> >> > Alex G., Vovan, how hard is it to fix this?
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Denis
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:56 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <
>> vozerov@gridgain.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Yakov,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Messages would help users understand what is wrong earlier, but will
>> >> not
>> >> > > protect them from additional maintenance which is required in AI 2.4
>> >> and
>> >> > is
>> >> > > supposed to be removed in next AI releases.
>> >> > > Please note that in IEP-4 topic I proposed alternative solution -
>> >> release
>> >> > > AI 2.5 now, but then release AI 2.6 as soon as BLT is fixed. I.e. it
>> >> > would
>> >> > > be emergency release.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Both approaches works for me, the main goal is to deliver original
>> >> > defaults
>> >> > > ASAP. However, approach with a single release looks better to me
>> >> because
>> >> > it
>> >> > > will minimize number of migrations for users.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Vladimir.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <yzhdanov@apache.org
>> >
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Guys, how about we release 2.5 in the nearest future after adding
>> >> > proper
>> >> > > > usability log messages that will explain user what to do and also
>> >> > output
>> >> > > > link to readme.io with the first BLT related message during node
>> >> > uptime.
>> >> > > > This should not take much time and we can use the same messages
>> when
>> >> we
>> >> > > > have (BL)AT modes in 2.6. I think that adding messages makes sense
>> >> and
>> >> > > > should be clear for users which is not the case for 2.4.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > --Yakov
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>>

Re: Postpone Apache Ignite 2.5 release to fix baseline topology

[Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>]

Completely support the decision to move any BLT behavior changes to 2.6.
However, in 2.5 we need to add usability log messages, which I believe we
already have.

D.

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Andrey Gura <ag...@apache.org> wrote:

> Igniters,
>
> I believe BLT is serious usability problem but rush isn't good idea
> because can lead to new bugs. As release manager I think that we
> should move BLT fix to Apache Ignite 2.6 release and focus on issues
> included to the AI 2.5 release scope.
> I also want inform you that code freeze is planned for Friday, May 11.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 8:44 PM, Dmitry Pavlov <dp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Dmitriy,
> >
> > As far as I understand manual activation will not be required for
> in-memory
> > mode (same for persistence). Change means we will change node state from
> > 'joined-inactive' to 'joined-active' according to that user defined in
> > policy (cluster grow policy).
> >
> > Default will be allow to rebalance data to joined node, probably, with
> some
> > delay. This detail will be defenetely discussed at dev list before
> > implementation.
> >
> > Pros: Persistent users will not be facing with disabled rebalancing in
> case
> > of node left - (BL)AT will be changed automatically. This also be handled
> > by cluster shrink policy for both in-memory and durable cases.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Dmitriy Pavlov
> >
> > сб, 28 апр. 2018 г. в 21:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>:
> >
> >> Can someone explain what is the before and after effect for this change
> >> from the usability standpoint. If we are changing BLT for the in-memory
> >> mode, which is the default, then we must think through all the usability
> >> consequences ahead of time. Otherwise, the perception will be that the
> >> product stopped working because someone did not know to activate the
> >> cluster.
> >>
> >> D.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Denis Magda <dm...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I'm backing up Vladimir's proposal to fix the behavior in 2.5 if it's
> not
> >> > time-consuming. To give you a bit more context on the subj, here is
> why
> >> we
> >> > should have the fix to be delivered in 2.5:
> >> > http://apache-ignite-users.70518.x6.nabble.com/Problems-
> >> > with-persistence-and-partitioned-cache-in-2-4-0-td21325.html
> >> >
> >> > Frankly, it's not the first time I see similar complaints from those
> who
> >> > are on 2.4.
> >> >
> >> > Alex G., Vovan, how hard is it to fix this?
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Denis
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:56 AM, Vladimir Ozerov <
> vozerov@gridgain.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Yakov,
> >> > >
> >> > > Messages would help users understand what is wrong earlier, but will
> >> not
> >> > > protect them from additional maintenance which is required in AI 2.4
> >> and
> >> > is
> >> > > supposed to be removed in next AI releases.
> >> > > Please note that in IEP-4 topic I proposed alternative solution -
> >> release
> >> > > AI 2.5 now, but then release AI 2.6 as soon as BLT is fixed. I.e. it
> >> > would
> >> > > be emergency release.
> >> > >
> >> > > Both approaches works for me, the main goal is to deliver original
> >> > defaults
> >> > > ASAP. However, approach with a single release looks better to me
> >> because
> >> > it
> >> > > will minimize number of migrations for users.
> >> > >
> >> > > Vladimir.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <yzhdanov@apache.org
> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Guys, how about we release 2.5 in the nearest future after adding
> >> > proper
> >> > > > usability log messages that will explain user what to do and also
> >> > output
> >> > > > link to readme.io with the first BLT related message during node
> >> > uptime.
> >> > > > This should not take much time and we can use the same messages
> when
> >> we
> >> > > > have (BL)AT modes in 2.6. I think that adding messages makes sense
> >> and
> >> > > > should be clear for users which is not the case for 2.4.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --Yakov
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>