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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Todd O'Bryan <to...@mac.com> on 2004/02/20 10:31:22 UTC
Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
you set up your project?
What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
before you check things in and out of CVS?
There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
Thanks,
Todd
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Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Marilen Corciovei <le...@nemesisit.rdsnet.ro>.
Hi, even if this might not be the global approach I was using Intellij
Idea for the last tapestry project. We've setup the dtd's for the
tapestry and hibernate xml files such that the integrated editor knows
element completition and validation. It is really easy to edit the xml
by hand this way. For large files we used the collapse feature on
different tags. We also changed the asociation for html files to be
threated as xml files for a similar approach. This helped for clean
xhtml output.
For hibernate we use an approach that makes use of the Global object and
a hibernate aware base page object we use for all application pages.
This object also contains validation and other various general
functions. We generaly store the xml configuration file for hibernate
somewhere in the classpath. The ant task which does the packing and
deployment can store the file either in the archive or somewhere else in
the classpath. If it has to be editable after the application is
deployed we store it with other config files in a WEB-INF/conf dir. This
can be still accesed from the classpath.
Yes, we use an ant file. This usually performs the following tasks:
generate MDA files, generate hibernate config, generate hibernate
classes, compile, pack, deploy, clean and clean deploy.
Beside the hibernate and tapestry jars the most common libraries we use
are the jasperreports one (since we developed a pdf service) and a
library of components.
Best regards,
Marilen Aretius Corciovei
Independent J2EE, Linux consultant
http://nemesisit.rdsnet.ro/len
http://www.nemesisit.ro
On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 11:31, Todd O'Bryan wrote:
> Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
> you set up your project?
>
> What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
> folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
> before you check things in and out of CVS?
>
> There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk>.
Spindle (3.0.40) works for me now :)
I'll tell you more tomorrow - I have to sleep now!
/Jan
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 02:00:18 +0100
Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk> wrote:
> I can't see the file I attached (can anybody else?).
> So here is the text the oldfashioned way:
>
> Setting up tools for Tapestry/Hibernate/Resin
>
> Eclipse (3.0 M6)
> Set up things like:
> · Comments
> · Line length (110)
> · Formatting (Java)
> Also look here:
> http://www.3plus4software.de/eclipse/index_en.html
>
> Spindle (3.0.xx)
> Install using Update Manager
>
> RFE Resin Plugin
> · http://membres.lycos.fr/resinforeclipse/RFE.0.8.2.Doc.html
> · Configure plugin to use Resin 2.1.x
> · Open Resin view in bottom, left corner.
> · Create new server (eg. "Default server")
> · "Default server", run-target, add "Tapestry framework" library
> to classpath
>
> Hibernate Synchronizer
> Install using Update Manager (if it works)
>
> ---------
> New projekt (Tapestry):
>
> Create a new Tapestry webproject
> Make "Web root" the root - The Resin plugin requires this.
>
> Create the folder "Web root\WEB-INF\lib
>
> Add classes to "Web root\WEB-INF\lib
> Tapestry, Hibernate, JDBC driver, etc.
>
> Add the project to the Resin view
>
> Hibernate configuration
> Right-click the project and select "New/Hibernate/Hibernate
> Configuration file"
>
> Add Hibernate mapping files
> Use the wizard if it works. If not just add mapping files (*.hbm)
> manually.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:51:35 +0100
> Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk> wrote:
>
> > Trying to attach document again...
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:46:47 +0100
> > Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Todd
> > >
> > > I am not an expert on the subject, but here is what I am currently doing.
> > > Usually I am very Ant-oriented, i.e. everything has to run in Ant before
> > > anything else. This time, though, I decided to try doing things on the
> > > terms of some plugins that I wanted to try: A Resin plugin, Spindle and
> > > a Hibernate plugin.
> > > I have a attached a document describing the process I went through.
> > > Spindle does not work in this configuration (I'll have to find out why),
> > > but Hibernate synchronization does, and.being able to run (or even debug)
> > > Resin applications within Eclipse is great.
> > >
> > > I hope this is helpful. If you need more info, just ask.
> > >
> > > best regards, Jan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 04:31:22 -0500
> > > "Todd O'Bryan" <to...@mac.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
> > > > you set up your project?
> > > >
> > > > What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> > > > Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
> > > > folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
> > > > before you check things in and out of CVS?
> > > >
> > > > There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> > > > there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk>.
I can't see the file I attached (can anybody else?).
So here is the text the oldfashioned way:
Setting up tools for Tapestry/Hibernate/Resin
Eclipse (3.0 M6)
Set up things like:
· Comments
· Line length (110)
· Formatting (Java)
Also look here:
http://www.3plus4software.de/eclipse/index_en.html
Spindle (3.0.xx)
Install using Update Manager
RFE Resin Plugin
· http://membres.lycos.fr/resinforeclipse/RFE.0.8.2.Doc.html
· Configure plugin to use Resin 2.1.x
· Open Resin view in bottom, left corner.
· Create new server (eg. "Default server")
· "Default server", run-target, add "Tapestry framework" library
to classpath
Hibernate Synchronizer
Install using Update Manager (if it works)
---------
New projekt (Tapestry):
Create a new Tapestry webproject
Make "Web root" the root - The Resin plugin requires this.
Create the folder "Web root\WEB-INF\lib
Add classes to "Web root\WEB-INF\lib
Tapestry, Hibernate, JDBC driver, etc.
Add the project to the Resin view
Hibernate configuration
Right-click the project and select "New/Hibernate/Hibernate
Configuration file"
Add Hibernate mapping files
Use the wizard if it works. If not just add mapping files (*.hbm)
manually.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:51:35 +0100
Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk> wrote:
> Trying to attach document again...
>
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:46:47 +0100
> Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk> wrote:
>
> > Hi Todd
> >
> > I am not an expert on the subject, but here is what I am currently doing.
> > Usually I am very Ant-oriented, i.e. everything has to run in Ant before
> > anything else. This time, though, I decided to try doing things on the
> > terms of some plugins that I wanted to try: A Resin plugin, Spindle and
> > a Hibernate plugin.
> > I have a attached a document describing the process I went through.
> > Spindle does not work in this configuration (I'll have to find out why),
> > but Hibernate synchronization does, and.being able to run (or even debug)
> > Resin applications within Eclipse is great.
> >
> > I hope this is helpful. If you need more info, just ask.
> >
> > best regards, Jan
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 04:31:22 -0500
> > "Todd O'Bryan" <to...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
> > > you set up your project?
> > >
> > > What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> > > Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
> > > folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
> > > before you check things in and out of CVS?
> > >
> > > There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> > > there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Todd
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk>.
Trying to attach document again...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:46:47 +0100
Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk> wrote:
> Hi Todd
>
> I am not an expert on the subject, but here is what I am currently doing.
> Usually I am very Ant-oriented, i.e. everything has to run in Ant before
> anything else. This time, though, I decided to try doing things on the
> terms of some plugins that I wanted to try: A Resin plugin, Spindle and
> a Hibernate plugin.
> I have a attached a document describing the process I went through.
> Spindle does not work in this configuration (I'll have to find out why),
> but Hibernate synchronization does, and.being able to run (or even debug)
> Resin applications within Eclipse is great.
>
> I hope this is helpful. If you need more info, just ask.
>
> best regards, Jan
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 04:31:22 -0500
> "Todd O'Bryan" <to...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
> > you set up your project?
> >
> > What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> > Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
> > folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
> > before you check things in and out of CVS?
> >
> > There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> > there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Todd
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Jan Mikkelsen <jm...@adslhome.dk>.
Hi Todd
I am not an expert on the subject, but here is what I am currently doing.
Usually I am very Ant-oriented, i.e. everything has to run in Ant before
anything else. This time, though, I decided to try doing things on the
terms of some plugins that I wanted to try: A Resin plugin, Spindle and
a Hibernate plugin.
I have a attached a document describing the process I went through.
Spindle does not work in this configuration (I'll have to find out why),
but Hibernate synchronization does, and.being able to run (or even debug)
Resin applications within Eclipse is great.
I hope this is helpful. If you need more info, just ask.
best regards, Jan
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 04:31:22 -0500
"Todd O'Bryan" <to...@mac.com> wrote:
> Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
> you set up your project?
>
> What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
> folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
> before you check things in and out of CVS?
>
> There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by David Moran <dm...@nc.rr.com>.
Thats what you have to pay money for :)
On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 20:02, Todd O'Bryan wrote:
> "Whatever happened to sticking the CD in the drive and
> double-clicking?")
>
> Thanks for the insights,
> Todd
>
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 11:42 AM, Jonny Wray wrote:
>
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > I use spring to manage the transactions, hibernate sessions, thread
> > local etc stuff as well as hibernate, but my answers might be useful.
> >
> > Spring Config file which contains the hibernate config info (eg imports
> > mappings) is in WEB-INF.
> >
> > I like to have all my web applications self contained, which means all
> > library jars should be the WEB-INF/lib directory.
> >
> > The build process: I currently use the user library plugin to manage my
> > libraries. Very useful. Gets over having a huge classpath defintion
> > with all the library jars on it. However, this only works for
> > compiling.
> > There dosen't appear to be a way to tie in the build process with this
> > plugin.
> >
> > I also use the JBoss IDE plugin for managing JBoss. This has a package
> > function, to create a war. I set this up (it also cannot use user
> > libraries directly) to put all the jars I need in the WEB-INF/lib
> > before creating the war. Configuration was a bit of a pain, but you
> > only do it once. Actually, it is just an ant build script, so you could
> > write such a script yourself if not using the JBoss IDE.
> >
> > This may not be the most efficent way to develop. The cycle is a tad
> > tedious (build project, package project, deploy, (maybe) restart app
> > server, test) and I'd be interested to hear if people have a faster
> > solution.
> >
> > Jonny
> >
> >
> > --- Todd O'Bryan <to...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
> >>
> >> you set up your project?
> >>
> >> What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> >> Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
> >> folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
> >> before you check things in and out of CVS?
> >>
> >> There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> >> there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Todd
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Jonny Wray <jo...@yahoo.com>.
FYI:
there is also a plugin for the Jonas app server that does much the same
thing. It's called Jope. It too uses an ant script to produce the war
then deploys it in the correct Jonas directory.
In addition, if you don't require a full app server then I think
Spindle has some integration with Jetty (a servlet engine). Spring
actually allows you to do a lot of app server type things (mainly
declarative transactions) in a servlet container (or no container at
all actually).
--- Todd O'Bryan <to...@mac.com> wrote:
> Well, since nobody jumped on this, I'm guessing this is a reasonable
> way of doing things, so I'm going to try to set up my environment
> now.
> Of course, first I have to set up Spring and JBoss. (Why is it that
> you
> always have to do something before you can do something else? One of
> my
> students today as we were plodding through the setup for the Tapestry
>
> tutorial said, "Whatever happened to sticking the CD in the drive and
>
> double-clicking?")
>
> Thanks for the insights,
> Todd
>
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 11:42 AM, Jonny Wray wrote:
>
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > I use spring to manage the transactions, hibernate sessions, thread
> > local etc stuff as well as hibernate, but my answers might be
> useful.
> >
> > Spring Config file which contains the hibernate config info (eg
> imports
> > mappings) is in WEB-INF.
> >
> > I like to have all my web applications self contained, which means
> all
> > library jars should be the WEB-INF/lib directory.
> >
> > The build process: I currently use the user library plugin to
> manage my
> > libraries. Very useful. Gets over having a huge classpath defintion
> > with all the library jars on it. However, this only works for
> > compiling.
> > There dosen't appear to be a way to tie in the build process with
> this
> > plugin.
> >
> > I also use the JBoss IDE plugin for managing JBoss. This has a
> package
> > function, to create a war. I set this up (it also cannot use user
> > libraries directly) to put all the jars I need in the WEB-INF/lib
> > before creating the war. Configuration was a bit of a pain, but you
> > only do it once. Actually, it is just an ant build script, so you
> could
> > write such a script yourself if not using the JBoss IDE.
> >
> > This may not be the most efficent way to develop. The cycle is a
> tad
> > tedious (build project, package project, deploy, (maybe) restart
> app
> > server, test) and I'd be interested to hear if people have a faster
> > solution.
> >
> > Jonny
> >
> >
> > --- Todd O'Bryan <to...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How
> do
> >>
> >> you set up your project?
> >>
> >> What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> >> Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the
> lib
> >> folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of
> them
> >> before you check things in and out of CVS?
> >>
> >> There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> >> there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Todd
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Todd O'Bryan <to...@mac.com>.
Well, since nobody jumped on this, I'm guessing this is a reasonable
way of doing things, so I'm going to try to set up my environment now.
Of course, first I have to set up Spring and JBoss. (Why is it that you
always have to do something before you can do something else? One of my
students today as we were plodding through the setup for the Tapestry
tutorial said, "Whatever happened to sticking the CD in the drive and
double-clicking?")
Thanks for the insights,
Todd
On Feb 20, 2004, at 11:42 AM, Jonny Wray wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
> I use spring to manage the transactions, hibernate sessions, thread
> local etc stuff as well as hibernate, but my answers might be useful.
>
> Spring Config file which contains the hibernate config info (eg imports
> mappings) is in WEB-INF.
>
> I like to have all my web applications self contained, which means all
> library jars should be the WEB-INF/lib directory.
>
> The build process: I currently use the user library plugin to manage my
> libraries. Very useful. Gets over having a huge classpath defintion
> with all the library jars on it. However, this only works for
> compiling.
> There dosen't appear to be a way to tie in the build process with this
> plugin.
>
> I also use the JBoss IDE plugin for managing JBoss. This has a package
> function, to create a war. I set this up (it also cannot use user
> libraries directly) to put all the jars I need in the WEB-INF/lib
> before creating the war. Configuration was a bit of a pain, but you
> only do it once. Actually, it is just an ant build script, so you could
> write such a script yourself if not using the JBoss IDE.
>
> This may not be the most efficent way to develop. The cycle is a tad
> tedious (build project, package project, deploy, (maybe) restart app
> server, test) and I'd be interested to hear if people have a faster
> solution.
>
> Jonny
>
>
> --- Todd O'Bryan <to...@mac.com> wrote:
>> Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
>>
>> you set up your project?
>>
>> What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
>> Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
>> folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
>> before you check things in and out of CVS?
>>
>> There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
>> there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Todd
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Hibernate, Tapestry, and Eclipse
Posted by Jonny Wray <jo...@yahoo.com>.
Todd,
I use spring to manage the transactions, hibernate sessions, thread
local etc stuff as well as hibernate, but my answers might be useful.
Spring Config file which contains the hibernate config info (eg imports
mappings) is in WEB-INF.
I like to have all my web applications self contained, which means all
library jars should be the WEB-INF/lib directory.
The build process: I currently use the user library plugin to manage my
libraries. Very useful. Gets over having a huge classpath defintion
with all the library jars on it. However, this only works for
compiling.
There dosen't appear to be a way to tie in the build process with this
plugin.
I also use the JBoss IDE plugin for managing JBoss. This has a package
function, to create a war. I set this up (it also cannot use user
libraries directly) to put all the jars I need in the WEB-INF/lib
before creating the war. Configuration was a bit of a pain, but you
only do it once. Actually, it is just an ant build script, so you could
write such a script yourself if not using the JBoss IDE.
This may not be the most efficent way to develop. The cycle is a tad
tedious (build project, package project, deploy, (maybe) restart app
server, test) and I'd be interested to hear if people have a faster
solution.
Jonny
--- Todd O'Bryan <to...@mac.com> wrote:
> Because of Spindle, I assume most Tapestry people use Eclipse. How do
>
> you set up your project?
>
> What I'm wondering is, where do you put the Hibernate config file?
> Which jars do you put on the classpath? Do you put things in the lib
> folder, and, if so, do you have an ant build flie to get rid of them
> before you check things in and out of CVS?
>
> There seem to be several ways I could go about this, but I'm sure
> there's a best way and I'd like to avoid the bad ones.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>
>
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