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Posted to dev@karaf.apache.org by Andreas Pieber <an...@gmail.com> on 2012/03/01 08:08:51 UTC
Re: [Discussion] Apache Karaf projects for Google Summer of Code 2012
Hey Stephen,
Well, the base idea behind this all is that Karaf is basically able to
reload bundles when specific conditions change automatically (see
dev:watch). In addition we know that you can use exploded bundles with
pax-url in Karaf. The first question is: a) how to wire them together
and b) what of those steps can we do automatically in EIK.
I think the target here should be a live-editing IDE for OSGi. I mean
there will be more tricks like EIK using bnd, configuring the urls,
informing about refreshs, reloading the code into the debugger
correctly, ...
As said, I'm not sure in detail what this means for which parts
(pax-url, karaf, eik) but the more I think about the idea the more I
like it. Think about how much this will boot developer speed in a
proper osgi app allowing correct reload of bundles...
Kind regards,
Andreas
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 17:35, Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Copying this idea to the tread on behalf of Andreas:
>>
>> "I might have an idea for an topic: live editing within karaf and eclipse
>> together with eik based on dev watch and exploded bundles. I think this
>> could be the killer feature if a student getan thistle right.
>>
>> Kind regards, Andreas"
>
> I'm not sure what this means but I'll guess: EIK starts Karaf and when
> a Bundle is recompiled by JDT it is refreshed inside the running
> Karaf?
>
> Stephen
>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> The ASF is in the process of organizing how Apache projects will
>>> approach the Google Summer of Code 2012
>>> (http://community.apache.org/comdevboardreports.html), as such this is
>>> probably the time for us as a community to start thinking about if and
>>> where in Karaf. or its sub-projects, we could find appropriate
>>> project(s) to submit to GSoC. In addition to project ideas we'll also
>>> need volunteer mentors to associate to the particular project
>>> submission(s).
>>>
>>> GSoC 2012:
>>> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Evanchik
> http://stephen.evanchik.com
Re: [Discussion] Apache Karaf projects for Google Summer of Code 2012
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
>From discussion on IRC:
How do we feel about https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-941
as a GSoC 2012 candidate?
@Stephen, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on Karaf-941 in case
it crosses over with EIK's capabilities.
Cheers,
Jamie
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Andreas Pieber <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Stephen,
>
> OK, so all in all we're of one opinion about the targets and that
> we're not there right now :-)
>
> But after reading your email I'm not sure about another point: is it
> OK for you to create a gsoc2012 for "Karaf Live Development" or are
> you the opinion that we're there anyhow almost? I personally have the
> feeling that there's quite a lot of work to do and we could need the
> work power of a gsoc student in that direction, don't you think?
> *confused*
>
> Kind regards,
> Andreas
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 03:34, Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Andreas,
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Andreas Pieber <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Stephen,
>>>
>>> Well, the base idea behind this all is that Karaf is basically able to
>>> reload bundles when specific conditions change automatically (see
>>> dev:watch). In addition we know that you can use exploded bundles with
>>> pax-url in Karaf. The first question is: a) how to wire them together
>>> and b) what of those steps can we do automatically in EIK.
>>
>> This is what I thought you meant. EIK already supports exploded
>> bundles via Equinox and this is how a workspace project is viewed. I
>> tried enabling dev:watch on one such bundle and found that it didn't
>> automatically work. I'll try again with a simpler bundle without the
>> EIK stuff torn apart and see what was going wrong.
>>
>>> I think the target here should be a live-editing IDE for OSGi. I mean
>>> there will be more tricks like EIK using bnd, configuring the urls,
>>> informing about refreshs, reloading the code into the debugger
>>> correctly, ...
>>
>> This is something that I've been working towards. Live editing and
>> runtime introspection are two areas which I am interested in. From my
>> experience, I have found that developers have trouble predicting what
>> is going on in the runtime and get frustrated when the only way to see
>> if things work is to run Karaf + their projects.
>>
>>>
>>> As said, I'm not sure in detail what this means for which parts
>>> (pax-url, karaf, eik) but the more I think about the idea the more I
>>> like it. Think about how much this will boot developer speed in a
>>> proper osgi app allowing correct reload of bundles...
>>
>> One thing I've been working on is using the Karaf Features
>> configuration to narrow the Eclipse compile time classpath. The
>> current code adds all JARs in Karaf to the Target Platform making them
>> available at compile time. If those JARs are not installed, because
>> they aren't in the boot features, then the developer's bundle won't
>> resolve or activate. Clearly we can do better in this area.
>>
>> Similarly, understanding what System properties are available at
>> runtime is important. I have an early version of this working today
>> and will clean it up in the coming days.
>>
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 17:35, Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Copying this idea to the tread on behalf of Andreas:
>>>>>
>>>>> "I might have an idea for an topic: live editing within karaf and eclipse
>>>>> together with eik based on dev watch and exploded bundles. I think this
>>>>> could be the killer feature if a student getan thistle right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards, Andreas"
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what this means but I'll guess: EIK starts Karaf and when
>>>> a Bundle is recompiled by JDT it is refreshed inside the running
>>>> Karaf?
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ASF is in the process of organizing how Apache projects will
>>>>>> approach the Google Summer of Code 2012
>>>>>> (http://community.apache.org/comdevboardreports.html), as such this is
>>>>>> probably the time for us as a community to start thinking about if and
>>>>>> where in Karaf. or its sub-projects, we could find appropriate
>>>>>> project(s) to submit to GSoC. In addition to project ideas we'll also
>>>>>> need volunteer mentors to associate to the particular project
>>>>>> submission(s).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GSoC 2012:
>>>>>> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stephen Evanchik
>>>> http://stephen.evanchik.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Evanchik
>> http://stephen.evanchik.com
Re: [Discussion] Apache Karaf projects for Google Summer of Code 2012
Posted by Andreas Pieber <an...@gmail.com>.
Hey Stephen,
OK, so all in all we're of one opinion about the targets and that
we're not there right now :-)
But after reading your email I'm not sure about another point: is it
OK for you to create a gsoc2012 for "Karaf Live Development" or are
you the opinion that we're there anyhow almost? I personally have the
feeling that there's quite a lot of work to do and we could need the
work power of a gsoc student in that direction, don't you think?
*confused*
Kind regards,
Andreas
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 03:34, Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Andreas,
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Andreas Pieber <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Stephen,
>>
>> Well, the base idea behind this all is that Karaf is basically able to
>> reload bundles when specific conditions change automatically (see
>> dev:watch). In addition we know that you can use exploded bundles with
>> pax-url in Karaf. The first question is: a) how to wire them together
>> and b) what of those steps can we do automatically in EIK.
>
> This is what I thought you meant. EIK already supports exploded
> bundles via Equinox and this is how a workspace project is viewed. I
> tried enabling dev:watch on one such bundle and found that it didn't
> automatically work. I'll try again with a simpler bundle without the
> EIK stuff torn apart and see what was going wrong.
>
>> I think the target here should be a live-editing IDE for OSGi. I mean
>> there will be more tricks like EIK using bnd, configuring the urls,
>> informing about refreshs, reloading the code into the debugger
>> correctly, ...
>
> This is something that I've been working towards. Live editing and
> runtime introspection are two areas which I am interested in. From my
> experience, I have found that developers have trouble predicting what
> is going on in the runtime and get frustrated when the only way to see
> if things work is to run Karaf + their projects.
>
>>
>> As said, I'm not sure in detail what this means for which parts
>> (pax-url, karaf, eik) but the more I think about the idea the more I
>> like it. Think about how much this will boot developer speed in a
>> proper osgi app allowing correct reload of bundles...
>
> One thing I've been working on is using the Karaf Features
> configuration to narrow the Eclipse compile time classpath. The
> current code adds all JARs in Karaf to the Target Platform making them
> available at compile time. If those JARs are not installed, because
> they aren't in the boot features, then the developer's bundle won't
> resolve or activate. Clearly we can do better in this area.
>
> Similarly, understanding what System properties are available at
> runtime is important. I have an early version of this working today
> and will clean it up in the coming days.
>
>
> Stephen
>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Andreas
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 17:35, Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Copying this idea to the tread on behalf of Andreas:
>>>>
>>>> "I might have an idea for an topic: live editing within karaf and eclipse
>>>> together with eik based on dev watch and exploded bundles. I think this
>>>> could be the killer feature if a student getan thistle right.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards, Andreas"
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what this means but I'll guess: EIK starts Karaf and when
>>> a Bundle is recompiled by JDT it is refreshed inside the running
>>> Karaf?
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> The ASF is in the process of organizing how Apache projects will
>>>>> approach the Google Summer of Code 2012
>>>>> (http://community.apache.org/comdevboardreports.html), as such this is
>>>>> probably the time for us as a community to start thinking about if and
>>>>> where in Karaf. or its sub-projects, we could find appropriate
>>>>> project(s) to submit to GSoC. In addition to project ideas we'll also
>>>>> need volunteer mentors to associate to the particular project
>>>>> submission(s).
>>>>>
>>>>> GSoC 2012:
>>>>> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jamie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen Evanchik
>>> http://stephen.evanchik.com
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Evanchik
> http://stephen.evanchik.com
Re: [Discussion] Apache Karaf projects for Google Summer of Code 2012
Posted by Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com>.
Hi Andreas,
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Andreas Pieber <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Stephen,
>
> Well, the base idea behind this all is that Karaf is basically able to
> reload bundles when specific conditions change automatically (see
> dev:watch). In addition we know that you can use exploded bundles with
> pax-url in Karaf. The first question is: a) how to wire them together
> and b) what of those steps can we do automatically in EIK.
This is what I thought you meant. EIK already supports exploded
bundles via Equinox and this is how a workspace project is viewed. I
tried enabling dev:watch on one such bundle and found that it didn't
automatically work. I'll try again with a simpler bundle without the
EIK stuff torn apart and see what was going wrong.
> I think the target here should be a live-editing IDE for OSGi. I mean
> there will be more tricks like EIK using bnd, configuring the urls,
> informing about refreshs, reloading the code into the debugger
> correctly, ...
This is something that I've been working towards. Live editing and
runtime introspection are two areas which I am interested in. From my
experience, I have found that developers have trouble predicting what
is going on in the runtime and get frustrated when the only way to see
if things work is to run Karaf + their projects.
>
> As said, I'm not sure in detail what this means for which parts
> (pax-url, karaf, eik) but the more I think about the idea the more I
> like it. Think about how much this will boot developer speed in a
> proper osgi app allowing correct reload of bundles...
One thing I've been working on is using the Karaf Features
configuration to narrow the Eclipse compile time classpath. The
current code adds all JARs in Karaf to the Target Platform making them
available at compile time. If those JARs are not installed, because
they aren't in the boot features, then the developer's bundle won't
resolve or activate. Clearly we can do better in this area.
Similarly, understanding what System properties are available at
runtime is important. I have an early version of this working today
and will clean it up in the coming days.
Stephen
>
> Kind regards,
> Andreas
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 17:35, Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Copying this idea to the tread on behalf of Andreas:
>>>
>>> "I might have an idea for an topic: live editing within karaf and eclipse
>>> together with eik based on dev watch and exploded bundles. I think this
>>> could be the killer feature if a student getan thistle right.
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Andreas"
>>
>> I'm not sure what this means but I'll guess: EIK starts Karaf and when
>> a Bundle is recompiled by JDT it is refreshed inside the running
>> Karaf?
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> The ASF is in the process of organizing how Apache projects will
>>>> approach the Google Summer of Code 2012
>>>> (http://community.apache.org/comdevboardreports.html), as such this is
>>>> probably the time for us as a community to start thinking about if and
>>>> where in Karaf. or its sub-projects, we could find appropriate
>>>> project(s) to submit to GSoC. In addition to project ideas we'll also
>>>> need volunteer mentors to associate to the particular project
>>>> submission(s).
>>>>
>>>> GSoC 2012:
>>>> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jamie
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Evanchik
>> http://stephen.evanchik.com
--
Stephen Evanchik
http://stephen.evanchik.com
Re: [Discussion] Apache Karaf projects for Google Summer of Code 2012
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
Andreas,
Would you like to propose your project idea via karaf's jira? By
labelling the issue with "gsoc2012" in JIRA it will be added to
http://s.apache.org/gsoc2012tasks.
Cheers,
Jamie
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Andreas Pieber <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Stephen,
>
> Well, the base idea behind this all is that Karaf is basically able to
> reload bundles when specific conditions change automatically (see
> dev:watch). In addition we know that you can use exploded bundles with
> pax-url in Karaf. The first question is: a) how to wire them together
> and b) what of those steps can we do automatically in EIK.
>
> I think the target here should be a live-editing IDE for OSGi. I mean
> there will be more tricks like EIK using bnd, configuring the urls,
> informing about refreshs, reloading the code into the debugger
> correctly, ...
>
> As said, I'm not sure in detail what this means for which parts
> (pax-url, karaf, eik) but the more I think about the idea the more I
> like it. Think about how much this will boot developer speed in a
> proper osgi app allowing correct reload of bundles...
>
> Kind regards,
> Andreas
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 17:35, Stephen Evanchik <ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Copying this idea to the tread on behalf of Andreas:
>>>
>>> "I might have an idea for an topic: live editing within karaf and eclipse
>>> together with eik based on dev watch and exploded bundles. I think this
>>> could be the killer feature if a student getan thistle right.
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Andreas"
>>
>> I'm not sure what this means but I'll guess: EIK starts Karaf and when
>> a Bundle is recompiled by JDT it is refreshed inside the running
>> Karaf?
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> The ASF is in the process of organizing how Apache projects will
>>>> approach the Google Summer of Code 2012
>>>> (http://community.apache.org/comdevboardreports.html), as such this is
>>>> probably the time for us as a community to start thinking about if and
>>>> where in Karaf. or its sub-projects, we could find appropriate
>>>> project(s) to submit to GSoC. In addition to project ideas we'll also
>>>> need volunteer mentors to associate to the particular project
>>>> submission(s).
>>>>
>>>> GSoC 2012:
>>>> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jamie
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Evanchik
>> http://stephen.evanchik.com