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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Eike Rathke <oo...@erack.de> on 2011/08/23 16:22:59 UTC
Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: @openoffice.org)
Hi Rob,
On Monday, 2011-08-22 19:07:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> Dumb question, but does anyone really like Bugzilla?
It's alright, it does the job, it could be better.
> Do users think
> it is easy to use? Or are they always complaining about it?
If they are complaining we don't know if they would be complaining less
about a different bug tracker.
> This might be a good opportunity to move to JIRA, a solution which
> I've heard others recommend as more appropriate for larger project.
While JIRA has some nifty features for developers and people working
with bugs, such as creation of sub-tasks and integrated statistics and
integration with SCMs, I doubt it is more end user friendly than
Bugzilla. To me when entering an issue it's just filling a form so the
actual user experience depends on how self-explaining that form is.
Bugzilla is more familiar to most end users who are involved with one or
the other project, ask some user if s/he ever submitted a bug in JIRA.
So, as a developer I might prefer JIRA, but it is yet to be seen if it
would be accepted more than Bugzilla by end users.
> There is also a supported conversion utility, and it does preserve the
> Bugzilla issue ID's:
>
> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/tour/bugzilla-importer.jsp
>
> JIRA might also be a faster way to get this set up. Compare that to
> the work required to get Apache Infrastructure to support the
> customized version of BZ used by OOo.
Regarding customizations I have no idea how much work it
a) was to get them into the OOo Bugzilla
b) would be to get them into Apache Bugzilla
c) would be to get them into JIRA
Eike
--
PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication.
Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD
Re: Bugzilla vs JIRA
Posted by Frank Schönheit <fr...@gmx.de>.
>> Regarding customizations I have no idea how much work it
>> a) was to get them into the OOo Bugzilla
>> b) would be to get them into Apache Bugzilla
>> c) would be to get them into JIRA
>>
>
> I don't know either. I think the key fact is knowing the extent of
> the customizations. For example, is it just UI customization
> (relatively easy) or have we extended the workflow and the database
> schema?
To my best ... ehm, memorization (I was part of the team at Oracle doing
the migration from the IssueZilla (ran on collab-net's CEE) to BugZilla
(ran in a Kenai context):
- we extended the database scheme with a field taking the issue type.
- we changed some settings of the BZ instance, e.g. the allowed status
transitions
- we did quite some customizations to the form templates, for the OOo
theming, but also for some workflow issues. That's the area I know
least about (Bernd Eilers did the great job here)
For the first two items: All of this is possible via BZ's admin
front-end, though we in fact let our migration scripts do it for us.
Ciao
Frank
Re: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: @openoffice.org)
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Eike Rathke <oo...@erack.de> wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> On Monday, 2011-08-22 19:07:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> Dumb question, but does anyone really like Bugzilla?
>
> It's alright, it does the job, it could be better.
>
>> Do users think
>> it is easy to use? Or are they always complaining about it?
>
> If they are complaining we don't know if they would be complaining less
> about a different bug tracker.
>
>> This might be a good opportunity to move to JIRA, a solution which
>> I've heard others recommend as more appropriate for larger project.
>
> While JIRA has some nifty features for developers and people working
> with bugs, such as creation of sub-tasks and integrated statistics and
> integration with SCMs, I doubt it is more end user friendly than
> Bugzilla. To me when entering an issue it's just filling a form so the
> actual user experience depends on how self-explaining that form is.
> Bugzilla is more familiar to most end users who are involved with one or
> the other project, ask some user if s/he ever submitted a bug in JIRA.
> So, as a developer I might prefer JIRA, but it is yet to be seen if it
> would be accepted more than Bugzilla by end users.
>
>> There is also a supported conversion utility, and it does preserve the
>> Bugzilla issue ID's:
>>
>> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/tour/bugzilla-importer.jsp
>>
>> JIRA might also be a faster way to get this set up. Compare that to
>> the work required to get Apache Infrastructure to support the
>> customized version of BZ used by OOo.
>
> Regarding customizations I have no idea how much work it
> a) was to get them into the OOo Bugzilla
> b) would be to get them into Apache Bugzilla
> c) would be to get them into JIRA
>
I don't know either. I think the key fact is knowing the extent of
the customizations. For example, is it just UI customization
(relatively easy) or have we extended the workflow and the database
schema?
Does anyone know?
> Eike
>
> --
> PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication.
> Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD
>
Re: Bugzilla vs JIRA
Posted by Frank Schönheit <fr...@gmx.de>.
> While JIRA has some nifty features for developers and people working
> with bugs, such as creation of sub-tasks and integrated statistics and
> integration with SCMs, I doubt it is more end user friendly than
> Bugzilla.
I tend to agree to this. JIRA has more eye-catchers, and is more
powerful, but I am not sure the additional complexity is something the
average user can cope with.
Ciao
Frank
Re: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: @openoffice.org)
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Aug 23, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> I personally prefer JIRA, but it was the first one where I saw issue tracking work well in a group setting.
>
> I don't like bugzilla that much.
>
> I think bugzilla is the answer here because the e-mail addresses of the existing reports have hard-coded e-mail address in them.
>
> There are some other issues though. What Apache has is a single big JIRA and, AFAIK, a single big bugzilla, just like it has a single big SVN. How we migrate into either one of those is a puzzle.
There is also a separate Bugzilla for SpamAssassin.
https://issues.apache.org/
https://issues.apache.org/SpamAssassin/
There is precedence in Apache for a project to be separate - if we can support it.
(I also prefer JIRA ... but I am not ideological about it)
Regards,
Dave
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eike Rathke [mailto:ooo@erack.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 07:23
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> On Monday, 2011-08-22 19:07:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> Dumb question, but does anyone really like Bugzilla?
>
> It's alright, it does the job, it could be better.
>
>> Do users think
>> it is easy to use? Or are they always complaining about it?
>
> If they are complaining we don't know if they would be complaining less
> about a different bug tracker.
>
>> This might be a good opportunity to move to JIRA, a solution which
>> I've heard others recommend as more appropriate for larger project.
>
> While JIRA has some nifty features for developers and people working
> with bugs, such as creation of sub-tasks and integrated statistics and
> integration with SCMs, I doubt it is more end user friendly than
> Bugzilla. To me when entering an issue it's just filling a form so the
> actual user experience depends on how self-explaining that form is.
> Bugzilla is more familiar to most end users who are involved with one or
> the other project, ask some user if s/he ever submitted a bug in JIRA.
> So, as a developer I might prefer JIRA, but it is yet to be seen if it
> would be accepted more than Bugzilla by end users.
>
>> There is also a supported conversion utility, and it does preserve the
>> Bugzilla issue ID's:
>>
>> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/tour/bugzilla-importer.jsp
>>
>> JIRA might also be a faster way to get this set up. Compare that to
>> the work required to get Apache Infrastructure to support the
>> customized version of BZ used by OOo.
>
> Regarding customizations I have no idea how much work it
> a) was to get them into the OOo Bugzilla
> b) would be to get them into Apache Bugzilla
> c) would be to get them into JIRA
>
> Eike
>
> --
> PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication.
> Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD
>
RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: @openoffice.org)
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 10:08 +1000, Gavin McDonald wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 24 August 2011 5:50 AM
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
> >
> > I personally prefer JIRA, but it was the first one where I saw issue tracking
> > work well in a group setting.
> >
> > I don't like bugzilla that much.
> >
> > I think bugzilla is the answer here because the e-mail addresses of the
> > existing reports have hard-coded e-mail address in them.
> >
> > There are some other issues though. What Apache has is a single big JIRA
> > and, AFAIK, a single big bugzilla, just like it has a single big SVN. How we
> > migrate into either one of those is a puzzle.
>
> no puzzle, we are going to migrate the Bugzilla as it is, into a separate instance.
> Once migrated and working, then , over time, we look at what is best, be it make
> it more standard and merge it in, or we move to Jira, whatever, priority is to migrate
> it as it is, that is the plan and is being worked on.
Excellent.
RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: @openoffice.org)
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Good. That's reassuring. Thanks.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin McDonald [mailto:gavin@16degrees.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 17:08
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
Subject: RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 August 2011 5:50 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
>
> I personally prefer JIRA, but it was the first one where I saw issue tracking
> work well in a group setting.
>
> I don't like bugzilla that much.
>
> I think bugzilla is the answer here because the e-mail addresses of the
> existing reports have hard-coded e-mail address in them.
>
> There are some other issues though. What Apache has is a single big JIRA
> and, AFAIK, a single big bugzilla, just like it has a single big SVN. How we
> migrate into either one of those is a puzzle.
no puzzle, we are going to migrate the Bugzilla as it is, into a separate instance.
Once migrated and working, then , over time, we look at what is best, be it make
it more standard and merge it in, or we move to Jira, whatever, priority is to migrate
it as it is, that is the plan and is being worked on.
Gav...
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eike Rathke [mailto:ooo@erack.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 07:23
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> On Monday, 2011-08-22 19:07:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>
> > Dumb question, but does anyone really like Bugzilla?
>
> It's alright, it does the job, it could be better.
>
> > Do users think
> > it is easy to use? Or are they always complaining about it?
>
> If they are complaining we don't know if they would be complaining less
> about a different bug tracker.
>
> > This might be a good opportunity to move to JIRA, a solution which
> > I've heard others recommend as more appropriate for larger project.
>
> While JIRA has some nifty features for developers and people working with
> bugs, such as creation of sub-tasks and integrated statistics and integration
> with SCMs, I doubt it is more end user friendly than Bugzilla. To me when
> entering an issue it's just filling a form so the actual user experience depends
> on how self-explaining that form is.
> Bugzilla is more familiar to most end users who are involved with one or the
> other project, ask some user if s/he ever submitted a bug in JIRA.
> So, as a developer I might prefer JIRA, but it is yet to be seen if it would be
> accepted more than Bugzilla by end users.
>
> > There is also a supported conversion utility, and it does preserve the
> > Bugzilla issue ID's:
> >
> > http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/tour/bugzilla-importer.jsp
> >
> > JIRA might also be a faster way to get this set up. Compare that to
> > the work required to get Apache Infrastructure to support the
> > customized version of BZ used by OOo.
>
> Regarding customizations I have no idea how much work it
> a) was to get them into the OOo Bugzilla
> b) would be to get them into Apache Bugzilla
> c) would be to get them into JIRA
>
> Eike
>
> --
> PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private
> communication.
> Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD
Re: Bugzilla vs JIRA
Posted by TJ Frazier <tj...@cfl.rr.com>.
Hi, Gavin,
On 8/23/2011 20:08, Gavin McDonald wrote:
>
>
[snip]
> no puzzle, we are going to migrate the Bugzilla as it is, into a separate instance.
> Once migrated and working, then , over time, we look at what is best, be it make
> it more standard and merge it in, or we move to Jira, whatever, priority is to migrate
> it as it is, that is the plan and is being worked on.
>
> Gav...
>
If someone will advise me when it's ready to be played with, I'll test
out my spam-finding and -fighting techniques. Unless you expect to use
this snapshot as the real move, I'll only try to size the job, and maybe
collect some user accounts for black-listing. I'll try to study on Moz
as to whether any of this is script-able, but I really rather doubt it.
To do the searches, I don't even need an account. However, if you want
me to help with the real clean-up, I'll likely need some more karma
there, at least temporarily. It would be nice to practice with that,
where errors on my part won't hurt anything.
My usual account is "tjfrazier". You can advise me by private email of
whatever account / password / privileges I can have on the test site.
--
/tj/
RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: @openoffice.org)
Posted by Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 August 2011 5:50 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
>
> I personally prefer JIRA, but it was the first one where I saw issue tracking
> work well in a group setting.
>
> I don't like bugzilla that much.
>
> I think bugzilla is the answer here because the e-mail addresses of the
> existing reports have hard-coded e-mail address in them.
>
> There are some other issues though. What Apache has is a single big JIRA
> and, AFAIK, a single big bugzilla, just like it has a single big SVN. How we
> migrate into either one of those is a puzzle.
no puzzle, we are going to migrate the Bugzilla as it is, into a separate instance.
Once migrated and working, then , over time, we look at what is best, be it make
it more standard and merge it in, or we move to Jira, whatever, priority is to migrate
it as it is, that is the plan and is being worked on.
Gav...
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eike Rathke [mailto:ooo@erack.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 07:23
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> On Monday, 2011-08-22 19:07:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>
> > Dumb question, but does anyone really like Bugzilla?
>
> It's alright, it does the job, it could be better.
>
> > Do users think
> > it is easy to use? Or are they always complaining about it?
>
> If they are complaining we don't know if they would be complaining less
> about a different bug tracker.
>
> > This might be a good opportunity to move to JIRA, a solution which
> > I've heard others recommend as more appropriate for larger project.
>
> While JIRA has some nifty features for developers and people working with
> bugs, such as creation of sub-tasks and integrated statistics and integration
> with SCMs, I doubt it is more end user friendly than Bugzilla. To me when
> entering an issue it's just filling a form so the actual user experience depends
> on how self-explaining that form is.
> Bugzilla is more familiar to most end users who are involved with one or the
> other project, ask some user if s/he ever submitted a bug in JIRA.
> So, as a developer I might prefer JIRA, but it is yet to be seen if it would be
> accepted more than Bugzilla by end users.
>
> > There is also a supported conversion utility, and it does preserve the
> > Bugzilla issue ID's:
> >
> > http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/tour/bugzilla-importer.jsp
> >
> > JIRA might also be a faster way to get this set up. Compare that to
> > the work required to get Apache Infrastructure to support the
> > customized version of BZ used by OOo.
>
> Regarding customizations I have no idea how much work it
> a) was to get them into the OOo Bugzilla
> b) would be to get them into Apache Bugzilla
> c) would be to get them into JIRA
>
> Eike
>
> --
> PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private
> communication.
> Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD
RE: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: @openoffice.org)
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
I personally prefer JIRA, but it was the first one where I saw issue tracking work well in a group setting.
I don't like bugzilla that much.
I think bugzilla is the answer here because the e-mail addresses of the existing reports have hard-coded e-mail address in them.
There are some other issues though. What Apache has is a single big JIRA and, AFAIK, a single big bugzilla, just like it has a single big SVN. How we migrate into either one of those is a puzzle.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Eike Rathke [mailto:ooo@erack.de]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 07:23
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Bugzilla vs JIRA (was: <id>@openoffice.org)
Hi Rob,
On Monday, 2011-08-22 19:07:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> Dumb question, but does anyone really like Bugzilla?
It's alright, it does the job, it could be better.
> Do users think
> it is easy to use? Or are they always complaining about it?
If they are complaining we don't know if they would be complaining less
about a different bug tracker.
> This might be a good opportunity to move to JIRA, a solution which
> I've heard others recommend as more appropriate for larger project.
While JIRA has some nifty features for developers and people working
with bugs, such as creation of sub-tasks and integrated statistics and
integration with SCMs, I doubt it is more end user friendly than
Bugzilla. To me when entering an issue it's just filling a form so the
actual user experience depends on how self-explaining that form is.
Bugzilla is more familiar to most end users who are involved with one or
the other project, ask some user if s/he ever submitted a bug in JIRA.
So, as a developer I might prefer JIRA, but it is yet to be seen if it
would be accepted more than Bugzilla by end users.
> There is also a supported conversion utility, and it does preserve the
> Bugzilla issue ID's:
>
> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/tour/bugzilla-importer.jsp
>
> JIRA might also be a faster way to get this set up. Compare that to
> the work required to get Apache Infrastructure to support the
> customized version of BZ used by OOo.
Regarding customizations I have no idea how much work it
a) was to get them into the OOo Bugzilla
b) would be to get them into Apache Bugzilla
c) would be to get them into JIRA
Eike
--
PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication.
Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD