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Posted to users@activemq.apache.org by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com> on 2006/08/25 10:49:11 UTC
Paging support
Jboss messaging has paging support.
http://labs.jboss.com/file-access/default/members/jbossmessaging/freezone/docs/guide-1.0.1.CR4/html/configuration.html#conf.destination.paging
Is there any plan to provide this feature in ActiveMQ. I think this is quite
a useful feature and queue/topic can hold lot of messages.
Thanks
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Re: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
James,
I am confused. I have seen that if lot of messages are sent and the max
memory(as specified by usagemanager) is reached the producer gets blocked.
If the same case happens in Jboss it would remove messages from memory so
that new messages can be accepted from the client. Is my understanding wrong
?
regards,
Pradeep
James.Strachan wrote:
>
> Yes - sending millions of persistent messages to a queue on a broker
> with small RAM; then consume them all.
>
> On 8/25/06, pradeep <pr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> By consuming , do you mean storing them in the database.
>> Thanks,
>> Pradeep
>>
>>
>> James.Strachan wrote:
>> >
>> > We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
>> > queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
>> > consuming them all.
>> >
>> > On 8/25/06, pradeep <pr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Jboss messaging has paging support.
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://labs.jboss.com/file-access/default/members/jbossmessaging/freezone/docs/guide-1.0.1.CR4/html/configuration.html#conf.destination.paging
>> >>
>> >> Is there any plan to provide this feature in ActiveMQ. I think this is
>> >> quite
>> >> a useful feature and queue/topic can hold lot of messages.
>> >> Thanks
>> >> --
>> >> View this message in context:
>> >> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a5979757
>> >> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > James
>> > -------
>> > http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a5980260
>> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
>
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Re: Paging support
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
Yes - sending millions of persistent messages to a queue on a broker
with small RAM; then consume them all.
On 8/25/06, pradeep <pr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> By consuming , do you mean storing them in the database.
> Thanks,
> Pradeep
>
>
> James.Strachan wrote:
> >
> > We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
> > queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
> > consuming them all.
> >
> > On 8/25/06, pradeep <pr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jboss messaging has paging support.
> >>
> >> http://labs.jboss.com/file-access/default/members/jbossmessaging/freezone/docs/guide-1.0.1.CR4/html/configuration.html#conf.destination.paging
> >>
> >> Is there any plan to provide this feature in ActiveMQ. I think this is
> >> quite
> >> a useful feature and queue/topic can hold lot of messages.
> >> Thanks
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a5979757
> >> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > James
> > -------
> > http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a5980260
> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
Re: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
By consuming , do you mean storing them in the database.
Thanks,
Pradeep
James.Strachan wrote:
>
> We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
> queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
> consuming them all.
>
> On 8/25/06, pradeep <pr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jboss messaging has paging support.
>>
>> http://labs.jboss.com/file-access/default/members/jbossmessaging/freezone/docs/guide-1.0.1.CR4/html/configuration.html#conf.destination.paging
>>
>> Is there any plan to provide this feature in ActiveMQ. I think this is
>> quite
>> a useful feature and queue/topic can hold lot of messages.
>> Thanks
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a5979757
>> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
>
--
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Re: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
I am also facing the same problem but it doesn't look like there is any
solution to the problem.
Anders Bengtsson wrote:
>
>
> James.Strachan wrote:
>>
>> We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
>> queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
>> consuming them all.
>>
>
> What kind of configuration do you use for that? Would topics behave
> differently?
>
> I'm trying to put lots of messages on a topic with a disconnected durable
> subscriber. With ActiveMQ 4.0.1 in the default configuration the producer
> blocks after a few thousand messages.
> Giving it lots and lots of memory lets it receive some more messages, but
> at a few tens of thousands of messages it will block again.
>
> Do you have to configure the journal or JDBC persistance somehow to avoid
> this limitation?
>
>
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Re: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
Well I am using JDBC persistence but I am not seeing messages removed from
memory ?
gnodet wrote:
>
> If you don' t use any persistent store, messages must be kept in memory,
> so you are obvisouly limited by the available mem.
> If you use a jdbc store, messages can be removed from memory and
> store for later consumption.
>
>
> On 8/28/06, Anders Bengtsson <nd...@yahoo.se> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> James.Strachan wrote:
>> >
>> > We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
>> > queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
>> > consuming them all.
>> >
>>
>> What kind of configuration do you use for that? Would topics behave
>> differently?
>>
>> I'm trying to put lots of messages on a topic with a disconnected durable
>> subscriber. With ActiveMQ 4.0.1 in the default configuration the producer
>> blocks after a few thousand messages.
>> Giving it lots and lots of memory lets it receive some more messages, but
>> at
>> a few tens of thousands of messages it will block again.
>>
>> Do you have to configure the journal or JDBC persistance somehow to avoid
>> this limitation?
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a6022232
>> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Guillaume Nodet
>
>
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RE: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Maxim.Is it possible to let us know by when this would be completed.
Pradeep
Fateev, Maxim wrote:
>
> My first step is refactoring ActiveMQ to allow alternative implementations
> of Queue without breaking existing code. I've submitted the patch
> (https://issues.apache.org/activemq/browse/AMQ-877) to achieve this. Patch
> got out of sync since submitted. I'm planning to get new version of it out
> today.
>
> Next step will be submitting Queue implementation that uses alternative
> Storage API and provide such storage implementation. I think it will take
> a while before such implementation is production ready.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pradeep [mailto:pradeepzmail@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:15 PM
> To: activemq-users@geronimo.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Paging support
>
>
> That would be nice. When would that be implemented ?
> Thanks.
> pradeep
>
> Fateev, Maxim wrote:
>>
>> AFAIK messages are moved from journal to permantent storage (JDBC) on
>> every checkpoint. The problem is that references for every message are
>> still kept in memory.
>> IMHO it is inherent limitation of MessageStore API as it is defined now.
>> The only way to get message is by id. And the only way to have id is
>> to keep it in memory.
>> I'm looking into changing MessageStore API to one that instead of
>>
>> Message getMessage(MessageId identity)
>>
>> Would provide
>>
>> Message getNextMessage()
>>
>> method eliminating need to keep references in memory.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Anders Bengtsson [mailto:ndrsbngtssn@yahoo.se]
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:23 AM
>> To: activemq-users@geronimo.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Paging support
>>
>>
>>
>> gnodet wrote:
>>>
>>> If you don' t use any persistent store, messages must be kept in
>>> memory, so you are obvisouly limited by the available mem.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, this is what I would expect.
>>
>>
>>
>>> If you use a jdbc store, messages can be removed from memory and
>>> store for later consumption.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, except it doesn't actually work!
>>
>> It writes things to the store, but it is still very much limited by
>> memory for some reason. (Someone reported this as AMQ-845 earlier, but
>> with no response).
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a6034790
>> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a6052563
> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
>
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RE: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
Yes, that's exactly the case I'm talking about. But I didn't interpret James
as requiring running consumers when he said "preloading a queue with
millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then consuming them all".
Only if someone consumers the messages will ActiveMQ start accepting further
messages when max memory is reached.
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RE: Paging support
Posted by Anders Bengtsson <nd...@yahoo.se>.
pradeep wrote:
>
> Well James also mentioned that there must be consumers running. If
> consumers are running millions of messages should work. The case we are
> talking about is when there are no consumers running and they don't want
> to miss messages so they register for durable subscrptions.
>
Yes, that's exactly the case I'm talking about. But I didn't interpret James
as requiring running consumers when he said "preloading a queue with
millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then consuming them all".
(I tried an evaluation version of SwiftMQ yesterday, which dealt nicely with
millions of pending messages in a topic. We'll probably go with that unless
this issue magically turns out to be a simple configuration issue or
something).
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RE: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
Well James also mentioned that there must be consumers running. If consumers
are running millions of messages should work. The case we are talking about
is when there are no consumers running and they don't want to miss messages
so they register for durable subscrptions.
We really need the feature Fateev was talking about.
Anders Bengtsson wrote:
>
>
> Fateev, Maxim wrote:
>>
>> AFAIK messages are moved from journal to permantent storage (JDBC) on
>> every checkpoint. The problem is that references for every message are
>> still kept in memory.
>> IMHO it is inherent limitation of MessageStore API as it is defined now.
>>
>
> Are you sure? James Strachan said earlier in this thread that ActiveMQ is
> tested with "millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb". Would that
> really be possible if it had to keep things in memory?
>
>
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RE: Paging support
Posted by Anders Bengtsson <nd...@yahoo.se>.
Fateev, Maxim wrote:
>
> AFAIK messages are moved from journal to permantent storage (JDBC) on
> every checkpoint. The problem is that references for every message are
> still kept in memory.
> IMHO it is inherent limitation of MessageStore API as it is defined now.
>
Are you sure? James Strachan said earlier in this thread that ActiveMQ is
tested with "millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb". Would that
really be possible if it had to keep things in memory?
--
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RE: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
That would be nice. When would that be implemented ?
Thanks.
pradeep
Fateev, Maxim wrote:
>
> AFAIK messages are moved from journal to permantent storage (JDBC) on
> every checkpoint. The problem is that references for every message are
> still kept in memory.
> IMHO it is inherent limitation of MessageStore API as it is defined now.
> The only way to get message is by id. And the only way to have id is to
> keep it in memory.
> I'm looking into changing MessageStore API to one that instead of
>
> Message getMessage(MessageId identity)
>
> Would provide
>
> Message getNextMessage()
>
> method eliminating need to keep references in memory.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anders Bengtsson [mailto:ndrsbngtssn@yahoo.se]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:23 AM
> To: activemq-users@geronimo.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Paging support
>
>
>
> gnodet wrote:
>>
>> If you don' t use any persistent store, messages must be kept in
>> memory, so you are obvisouly limited by the available mem.
>>
>
> Yes, this is what I would expect.
>
>
>
>> If you use a jdbc store, messages can be removed from memory and store
>> for later consumption.
>>
>
> Yes, except it doesn't actually work!
>
> It writes things to the store, but it is still very much limited by memory
> for some reason. (Someone reported this as AMQ-845 earlier, but with no
> response).
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a6034790
> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
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Re: Paging support
Posted by Rob Davies <ra...@gmail.com>.
A message reference is kept in memory (which consists of a messageId
and information like sequence Id to enable faster retrieval from
storage).
There is some work currently in progress in enable paging support in
ActiveMQ - see http://issues.apache.org/activemq/browse/AMQ-845
On 5 Sep 2006, at 18:07, pradeep wrote:
>
> Maxim,
>
> Can you clarify this
> Are you storing just the message id or the whole message in memory?
> Your
> help will be highly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> pradeep
>
>
> Fateev, Maxim wrote:
>>
>> It would be interesting to see some numbers about memory
>> utilization per
>> message in backlog.
>>
>> IMHO the main problem with keeping references in memory is that it
>> needs
>> recovery phase on broker startup. It can take a while when backlog is
>> really big.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Strachan [mailto:james.strachan@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:51 PM
>> To: activemq-users@geronimo.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Paging support
>>
>> Note that MessageReferences != message contents; they are mostly
>> just a
>> MessageId which is pretty small.
>>
>> On 8/29/06, Fateev, Maxim <fa...@amazon.com> wrote:
>>> AFAIK messages are moved from journal to permantent storage
>>> (JDBC) on
>>> every checkpoint. The problem is that references for every
>>> message are
>>> still kept in memory.
>>> IMHO it is inherent limitation of MessageStore API as it is
>>> defined now.
>>> The only way to get message is by id. And the only way to have id
>>> is to
>>> keep it in memory.
>>> I'm looking into changing MessageStore API to one that instead of
>>>
>>> Message getMessage(MessageId identity)
>>>
>>> Would provide
>>>
>>> Message getNextMessage()
>>>
>>> method eliminating need to keep references in memory.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Anders Bengtsson [mailto:ndrsbngtssn@yahoo.se]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:23 AM
>>> To: activemq-users@geronimo.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Paging support
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> gnodet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you don' t use any persistent store, messages must be kept in
>>>> memory, so you are obvisouly limited by the available mem.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, this is what I would expect.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you use a jdbc store, messages can be removed from memory and
>>>> store for later consumption.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, except it doesn't actually work!
>>>
>>> It writes things to the store, but it is still very much limited by
>>> memory for some reason. (Someone reported this as AMQ-845
>>> earlier, but
>>> with no response).
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a6034790
>>> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> James
>> -------
>> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-
> tf2163517.html#a6156162
> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
RE: Paging support
Posted by pradeep <pr...@gmail.com>.
Maxim,
Can you clarify this
Are you storing just the message id or the whole message in memory? Your
help will be highly appreciated.
Thanks
pradeep
Fateev, Maxim wrote:
>
> It would be interesting to see some numbers about memory utilization per
> message in backlog.
>
> IMHO the main problem with keeping references in memory is that it needs
> recovery phase on broker startup. It can take a while when backlog is
> really big.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Strachan [mailto:james.strachan@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:51 PM
> To: activemq-users@geronimo.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Paging support
>
> Note that MessageReferences != message contents; they are mostly just a
> MessageId which is pretty small.
>
> On 8/29/06, Fateev, Maxim <fa...@amazon.com> wrote:
>> AFAIK messages are moved from journal to permantent storage (JDBC) on
>> every checkpoint. The problem is that references for every message are
>> still kept in memory.
>> IMHO it is inherent limitation of MessageStore API as it is defined now.
>> The only way to get message is by id. And the only way to have id is to
>> keep it in memory.
>> I'm looking into changing MessageStore API to one that instead of
>>
>> Message getMessage(MessageId identity)
>>
>> Would provide
>>
>> Message getNextMessage()
>>
>> method eliminating need to keep references in memory.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Anders Bengtsson [mailto:ndrsbngtssn@yahoo.se]
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:23 AM
>> To: activemq-users@geronimo.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Paging support
>>
>>
>>
>> gnodet wrote:
>> >
>> > If you don' t use any persistent store, messages must be kept in
>> > memory, so you are obvisouly limited by the available mem.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, this is what I would expect.
>>
>>
>>
>> > If you use a jdbc store, messages can be removed from memory and
>> > store for later consumption.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, except it doesn't actually work!
>>
>> It writes things to the store, but it is still very much limited by
>> memory for some reason. (Someone reported this as AMQ-845 earlier, but
>> with no response).
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a6034790
>> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>>
>
>
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
>
--
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Re: Paging support
Posted by Anders Bengtsson <nd...@yahoo.se>.
gnodet wrote:
>
> If you don' t use any persistent store, messages must be kept in memory,
> so you are obvisouly limited by the available mem.
>
Yes, this is what I would expect.
> If you use a jdbc store, messages can be removed from memory and
> store for later consumption.
>
Yes, except it doesn't actually work!
It writes things to the store, but it is still very much limited by memory
for some reason. (Someone reported this as AMQ-845 earlier, but with no
response).
--
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Re: Paging support
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
If you don' t use any persistent store, messages must be kept in memory,
so you are obvisouly limited by the available mem.
If you use a jdbc store, messages can be removed from memory and
store for later consumption.
On 8/28/06, Anders Bengtsson <nd...@yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>
>
> James.Strachan wrote:
> >
> > We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
> > queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
> > consuming them all.
> >
>
> What kind of configuration do you use for that? Would topics behave
> differently?
>
> I'm trying to put lots of messages on a topic with a disconnected durable
> subscriber. With ActiveMQ 4.0.1 in the default configuration the producer
> blocks after a few thousand messages.
> Giving it lots and lots of memory lets it receive some more messages, but
> at
> a few tens of thousands of messages it will block again.
>
> Do you have to configure the journal or JDBC persistance somehow to avoid
> this limitation?
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a6022232
> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
Re: Paging support
Posted by Anders Bengtsson <nd...@yahoo.se>.
James.Strachan wrote:
>
> We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
> queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
> consuming them all.
>
What kind of configuration do you use for that? Would topics behave
differently?
I'm trying to put lots of messages on a topic with a disconnected durable
subscriber. With ActiveMQ 4.0.1 in the default configuration the producer
blocks after a few thousand messages.
Giving it lots and lots of memory lets it receive some more messages, but at
a few tens of thousands of messages it will block again.
Do you have to configure the journal or JDBC persistance somehow to avoid
this limitation?
--
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Re: Paging support
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
We do a similar thing. e.g. we regularly test ActiveMQ by preloading a
queue with millions of messages with a small heap of 64Mb and then
consuming them all.
On 8/25/06, pradeep <pr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jboss messaging has paging support.
>
> http://labs.jboss.com/file-access/default/members/jbossmessaging/freezone/docs/guide-1.0.1.CR4/html/configuration.html#conf.destination.paging
>
> Is there any plan to provide this feature in ActiveMQ. I think this is quite
> a useful feature and queue/topic can hold lot of messages.
> Thanks
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Paging-support-tf2163517.html#a5979757
> Sent from the ActiveMQ - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
James
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http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/