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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Kevin Grover <ke...@kevingrover.net> on 2008/07/10 01:19:44 UTC
List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Is there a reason the SVN lists only have the list-help,
list-subscribe, and list-post email headers? Specifically, why are
they mistting the list-id field?
If they included the list-id field also, GMail (and other clients)
could filter on it automatically). If fact, if it exists and you use
'Show Full Headers' there's a nice little link to automatically set up
a filter.
I just noticed this while moving form GMail to GAFYD and noticed that
some other lists (Mercurial) have it. So, I researched it a little.
The fields are specified in RFC 2919.
- Kevin
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Jul 11, 2008, at 16:34, Karl Fogel wrote:
> Ryan Schmidt writes:
>
>> So why even consider adding List-ID as a one-off Subversion
>> modification? Get Tigris to add List-ID headers to all lists hosted
>> there. Then it's a standard part of their configuration and not a
>> custom mod.
>
> I'm all for it! feedback{_AT_}tigris.org is the place to make such
> suggestions. I think I may have had a conversation with them about
> this
> some years ago, but I don't remember the outcome. If you ask them
> about
> it, please let me know what they say; or feel free to just CC me on
> any
> correspondence with them.
I sent an email to Tigris. We'll see what they say!
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@red-bean.com>.
Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com> writes:
> So why even consider adding List-ID as a one-off Subversion
> modification? Get Tigris to add List-ID headers to all lists hosted
> there. Then it's a standard part of their configuration and not a
> custom mod.
I'm all for it! feedback{_AT_}tigris.org is the place to make such
suggestions. I think I may have had a conversation with them about this
some years ago, but I don't remember the outcome. If you ask them about
it, please let me know what they say; or feel free to just CC me on any
correspondence with them.
-Karl
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Jul 11, 2008, at 11:08, Karl Fogel wrote:
> John Peacock writes:
>
>> Bah, both lists are managed via ezmlm, so it is trivially easy to add
>> that header:
>>
>> $ cd path/to/tigris.org/users
>> $ echo "List-Id: <users.subversion.tigris.org>" >> headeradd
>>
>> You can do this at any time without affecting delivery; the very next
>> message that comes in will have that header...
>
> Yes, I know. The question is about preserving such mods through
> upgrades and recoveries, etc. Any ops engineer will tell you that
> allowing improvised one-off changes like that all over the place
> quickly
> leads to an unmaintainable box (or at least to a box whose behavior
> will
> change unpredictably on upgrades), and they'd be right. We could run
> the web site a whole different way... but then we'd lose the luxury of
> having the box be managed for us. In which case, developer time would
> be spent on site management, which is exactly what we don't want.
So why even consider adding List-ID as a one-off Subversion
modification? Get Tigris to add List-ID headers to all lists hosted
there. Then it's a standard part of their configuration and not a
custom mod.
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@red-bean.com>.
John Peacock <jo...@havurah-software.org> writes:
> Bah, both lists are managed via ezmlm, so it is trivially easy to add
> that header:
>
> $ cd path/to/tigris.org/users
> $ echo "List-Id: <users.subversion.tigris.org>" >> headeradd
>
> You can do this at any time without affecting delivery; the very next
> message that comes in will have that header...
Yes, I know. The question is about preserving such mods through
upgrades and recoveries, etc. Any ops engineer will tell you that
allowing improvised one-off changes like that all over the place quickly
leads to an unmaintainable box (or at least to a box whose behavior will
change unpredictably on upgrades), and they'd be right. We could run
the web site a whole different way... but then we'd lose the luxury of
having the box be managed for us. In which case, developer time would
be spent on site management, which is exactly what we don't want.
(I don't even have a login on that box, btw.)
-Karl
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by John Peacock <jo...@havurah-software.org>.
Karl Fogel wrote:
> I think we should, and maybe we will after tigris.org gets upgraded.
> But we don't have 100% flexibility. A lot of our admin overhead is
> taken care of for us by the tigris.org administrators, which is
> primarily CollabNet staff I think. The tradeoff is that we can't just
> go make tweaks like this -- uptime guarantees come with a price :-).
Bah, both lists are managed via ezmlm, so it is trivially easy to add that header:
$ cd path/to/tigris.org/users
$ echo "List-Id: <users.subversion.tigris.org>" >> headeradd
You can do this at any time without affecting delivery; the very next message
that comes in will have that header...
John
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@red-bean.com>.
"Kevin Grover" <ke...@kevingrover.net> writes:
> Is there a reason the SVN lists only have the list-help,
> list-subscribe, and list-post email headers? Specifically, why are
> they mistting the list-id field?
>
> If they included the list-id field also, GMail (and other clients)
> could filter on it automatically). If fact, if it exists and you use
> 'Show Full Headers' there's a nice little link to automatically set up
> a filter.
>
> I just noticed this while moving form GMail to GAFYD and noticed that
> some other lists (Mercurial) have it. So, I researched it a little.
>
> The fields are specified in RFC 2919.
I think we should, and maybe we will after tigris.org gets upgraded.
But we don't have 100% flexibility. A lot of our admin overhead is
taken care of for us by the tigris.org administrators, which is
primarily CollabNet staff I think. The tradeoff is that we can't just
go make tweaks like this -- uptime guarantees come with a price :-).
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman <bu...@buanzo.com.ar>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Marc Haisenko wrote:
| Kontact/KMail has the same feature and I really like it and use it. The first
| time I get a mail from a new list, I right-click, "Create Filter -> "Filter
| on Mailing-List". But it works with the SubVersion lists right now so I guess
| KMail does some magic as indeed List-Id is missing (most other mailing lists
Well, these other headers COME with the subversion-users mailing list emails I get:
Mailing-List: contact users-help@subversion.tigris.org; run by ezmlm
list-help: <ma...@subversion.tigris.org>
list-unsubscribe: <ma...@subversion.tigris.org>
list-post: <ma...@subversion.tigris.org>
No list-id, but list-post usually works the same. I used list-post in... well, over 20 lists. Never
a problem.
People, use list-post. You don't need list-id. You know what list it is.
- --
Arturo "Buanzo" Busleiman
Independent Security Consultant - SANS - OISSG - OWASP
http://www.buanzo.com.ar/pro/eng.html
Mailing List Archives at http://archiver.mailfighter.net
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Marc Haisenko <ha...@comdasys.com>.
On Thursday 10 July 2008, Kevin Grover wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
> > Concerning List-* mail headers for svn (user,d
> >
> > Kevin Grover wrote on 9 Jul 2008, 18:19, at least in part:
> > > If they included the list-id field also, GMail (and other clients)
> > > could filter on it automatically). If fact, if it exists and you use
> > > 'Show Full Headers' there's a nice little link to automatically set up
> > > a filter.
> >
> > One can easily filter on the TO field, eg
> > "users@subversion.tigris.org" or "*@subversion.tigris.org".
> >
> > Jan Hendrik
>
> Yes, that's what I do. However, if the list-id field is added, filtering
> becomes simpler - a user just clicks on the link in the 'show details'
> display.
>
> I was primarily curious _why_ the other list-* fields are there, but
> list-id is not.
Kontact/KMail has the same feature and I really like it and use it. The first
time I get a mail from a new list, I right-click, "Create Filter -> "Filter
on Mailing-List". But it works with the SubVersion lists right now so I guess
KMail does some magic as indeed List-Id is missing (most other mailing lists
I'm on have it, e.g. ruby-core, syslinux, vim, rpm). So just for completeness
I think it should be added.
Marc
--
Marc Haisenko
Comdasys AG
Rüdesheimer Str. 7
80686 München
Germany
Tel.: +49 (0)89 548 433 321
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
FYI: I have already sent them a note.
On Jul 12, 2008, at 11:46, Kevin Grover wrote:
> As per the suggestions later in the this post, I'll probably drop
> tigris a note asking that all lists carry the id.
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Kevin Grover <ke...@kevingrover.net>.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 6:47 AM, Kevin Grover <ke...@kevingrover.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Concerning Re: List-* mail headers for svn (us
>> Kevin Grover wrote on 10 Jul 2008, 9:00, at least in part:
>>
>> > Yes, that's what I do. However, if the list-id field is added,
>> > filtering becomes simpler - a user just clicks on the link in the
>> > 'show details' display.
>> >
>> > I was primarily curious _why_ the other list-* fields are there, but
>> > list-id is not.
>> >
>> > I've attached PNG example from the Mercurial list. Notice the nice
>> > link 'Filter messages from this mailing list'?
>>
>> Nice gimmick. But is the filter automagically removed when
>> unsubscribing using the respective header? Only then it would
>> make some real sense IMHO. Otherwise I would rather have
>> Google not censoring my own postings to list, requiring me to set
>> up two mail addresses and two subscriptions to see my postings
>> (or CCs/BCCs to myself for that matter).
>>
>> Jan Hendrik
>>
>
> There's no magic. Clicking the filter button just jumps you to a filter
> creation dialog with the "Has the words:" box automatically filled in. I
> tried to duplicate this for this SVN list by copying the List-Post line
> (List-Post: <ma...@subversion.tigris.org>) and pasting it into the
> "Has the words:" box of the filter. It seems to work. Excellent!
>
Just an FYI. I was wrong. The List-Post: filters does NOT work in GMail.
I switched back to filtering on To/Cc. As per the suggestions later in the
this post, I'll probably drop tigris a note asking that all lists carry the
id.
If anyone cares, these are the current filters I use for SVN and SVN-Dev:
SVN: (to:(users@subversion.tigris.org) OR cc:(users@subversion.tigris.org)
SVN-Dev: (to:(dev@subversion.tigris.org) OR cc:(dev@subversion.tigris.org)
You can put that text (everyting in ()) in the 'Has the words' box on a
GMail filter.
>
> The benefit of List-Id is that I don't have to experiment with this: it's
> much easier to create the filter and it eliminates some of the human
> element.
>
> Had I not seen that link in the Mercurial list header when moving to a
> GAFYD, and researched why it worked, I would never have know about it, nor
> that I could use the other (raw) email fields in the "Has the words:" fields
> as the filter. This is (IMO) much better than kludging together multiple
> filters for To Cc or Subject fields to try to catch all instances of list
> traffic.
>
>
>
Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>.
Concerning Re: List-* mail headers for svn (us
Kevin Grover wrote on 11 Jul 2008, 6:47, at least in part:
> There's no magic. Clicking the filter button just jumps you to a
> filter creation dialog with the "Has the words:" box automatically
> filled in. I tried to duplicate this for this SVN list by copying the
> List-Post line (List-Post: <ma...@subversion.tigris.org>) and
> pasting it into the "Has the words:" box of the filter. It seems to
> work. Excellent!
>
> The benefit of List-Id is that I don't have to experiment with this:
> it's much easier to create the filter and it eliminates some of the
> human element.
>
> Had I not seen that link in the Mercurial list header when moving to a
> GAFYD, and researched why it worked, I would never have know about it,
> nor that I could use the other (raw) email fields in the "Has the
> words:" fields as the filter. This is (IMO) much better than kludging
> together multiple filters for To Cc or Subject fields to try to catch
> all instances of list traffic.
Well, in Pegasus Mail I filter on "users@subversion.tigris.org"
somewhere in the headers it that does it. If I wanted to be really
smart I would do it like Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman (though in
conjunction with the Reply-to setup - or rather the lack of it - of the
subversion lists users of Gmail don't necessarily get the List-
headers at all as Gmail censors the mail by deleting the copy from
the list in favor of the B/CCed copy). I admit that it is a nice thing,
but I still say that list-id would only be really useful if list-
unsubscribe would also result in a remove the filter.
Jan Hendrik
---------------------------------------
Freedom quote:
Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that government officials
shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands
to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government
will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher.
For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.
Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker,
it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law
unto himself; it invites anarchy.
-- Louis D. Brandeis (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1856-1941)
Olmstead vs. U.S., 1928
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Kevin Grover <ke...@kevingrover.net>.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Concerning Re: List-* mail headers for svn (us
> Kevin Grover wrote on 10 Jul 2008, 9:00, at least in part:
>
> > Yes, that's what I do. However, if the list-id field is added,
> > filtering becomes simpler - a user just clicks on the link in the
> > 'show details' display.
> >
> > I was primarily curious _why_ the other list-* fields are there, but
> > list-id is not.
> >
> > I've attached PNG example from the Mercurial list. Notice the nice
> > link 'Filter messages from this mailing list'?
>
> Nice gimmick. But is the filter automagically removed when
> unsubscribing using the respective header? Only then it would
> make some real sense IMHO. Otherwise I would rather have
> Google not censoring my own postings to list, requiring me to set
> up two mail addresses and two subscriptions to see my postings
> (or CCs/BCCs to myself for that matter).
>
> Jan Hendrik
>
There's no magic. Clicking the filter button just jumps you to a filter
creation dialog with the "Has the words:" box automatically filled in. I
tried to duplicate this for this SVN list by copying the List-Post line
(List-Post: <ma...@subversion.tigris.org>) and pasting it into the
"Has the words:" box of the filter. It seems to work. Excellent!
The benefit of List-Id is that I don't have to experiment with this: it's
much easier to create the filter and it eliminates some of the human
element.
Had I not seen that link in the Mercurial list header when moving to a
GAFYD, and researched why it worked, I would never have know about it, nor
that I could use the other (raw) email fields in the "Has the words:" fields
as the filter. This is (IMO) much better than kludging together multiple
filters for To Cc or Subject fields to try to catch all instances of list
traffic.
Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>.
Concerning Re: List-* mail headers for svn (us
Kevin Grover wrote on 10 Jul 2008, 9:00, at least in part:
> Yes, that's what I do. However, if the list-id field is added,
> filtering becomes simpler - a user just clicks on the link in the
> 'show details' display.
>
> I was primarily curious _why_ the other list-* fields are there, but
> list-id is not.
>
> I've attached PNG example from the Mercurial list. Notice the nice
> link 'Filter messages from this mailing list'?
Nice gimmick. But is the filter automagically removed when
unsubscribing using the respective header? Only then it would
make some real sense IMHO. Otherwise I would rather have
Google not censoring my own postings to list, requiring me to set
up two mail addresses and two subscriptions to see my postings
(or CCs/BCCs to myself for that matter).
Jan Hendrik
---------------------------------------
Freedom quote:
But we know that freedom cannot be served by the devices of the tyrant.
As it is an ancient truth that freedom cannot be legislated into existence,
so it is no less obvious that freedom cannot be censored into existence.
And any who act as if freedom's defenses are to be found in suppression and
suspicion and fear confess a doctrine that is alien to America.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Kevin Grover <ke...@kevingrover.net>.
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Concerning List-* mail headers for svn (user,d
> Kevin Grover wrote on 9 Jul 2008, 18:19, at least in part:
>
> > If they included the list-id field also, GMail (and other clients)
> > could filter on it automatically). If fact, if it exists and you use
> > 'Show Full Headers' there's a nice little link to automatically set up
> > a filter.
>
> One can easily filter on the TO field, eg
> "users@subversion.tigris.org" or "*@subversion.tigris.org".
>
> Jan Hendrik
>
Yes, that's what I do. However, if the list-id field is added, filtering
becomes simpler - a user just clicks on the link in the 'show details'
display.
I was primarily curious _why_ the other list-* fields are there, but list-id
is not.
I've attached PNG example from the Mercurial list. Notice the nice link
'Filter messages from this mailing list'?
Re: List-* mail headers for svn (user,dev,*) lists
Posted by Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>.
Concerning List-* mail headers for svn (user,d
Kevin Grover wrote on 9 Jul 2008, 18:19, at least in part:
> If they included the list-id field also, GMail (and other clients)
> could filter on it automatically). If fact, if it exists and you use
> 'Show Full Headers' there's a nice little link to automatically set up
> a filter.
One can easily filter on the TO field, eg
"users@subversion.tigris.org" or "*@subversion.tigris.org".
Jan Hendrik
---------------------------------------
Freedom quote:
Democracy means that if the doorbell rings in the early hours,
it is likely to be the milkman.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
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