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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> on 2012/03/06 02:12:28 UTC
[csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Hi,
This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
Emmanuel Bourg
Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Jörg Schaible <Jo...@scalaris.com>.
Hi Emmanuel,
Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 06/03/2012 08:52, Jörg Schaible a écrit :
>
>> All that we can do now is to put a big red warning at commons-cvs
>> homepage:
>>
>> ========== %< ==========
>> CAUTION: If you use Apache Solr you run implicitly an incompatible
>> version of commons-csv that may affect your application. We have to
>> refuse any help for problems if you run also Apache Solr - we are sorry!
>> ========== %< ==========
>
> The warning is a good idea. It might suggest upgrading to a more recent
> version of Solr.
>
>
>>> ps: I'm away for the week in Korea w/ limited internet access, so I'll
>>> most likely be unable to respond personally to any followups.
>>
>> ... and leaving the user's of commons-csv and Solr in the rain. Thanks!
>
> Well, solr-commons-csv has been out in the wild for 2 years, so I guess
> the issue can wait a few more days now ;)
OK, didn't knew that, I supposed it was released lately. However, IMHO the
only reason we did not get any problems is because we have no official
release ... yet.
And the fact that other Apache projects release code with package names they
don't own. That's the real bummer.
Cheers,
Jörg
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Jörg Schaible <Jo...@scalaris.com>.
Hi Emmanuel,
Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 06/03/2012 10:26, markt@apache.org a écrit :
>
>> The right way for solr to do this would be to package rename csv the same
>> way Tomcat does for encode.
>
> Yes that's what I suggested. How do you do this in Tomcat? Did you copy
> and rename the packages manually, or do you have a tool that automates
> the process?
in a Maven build you can automate it at byte code level with the shade
plugin. I am sure something similar exists for Ant. However, debugging gets
more difficult. It's somewhere a trade off between development comfort and
synchronization requirements between the two code bases.
Cheers,
Jörg
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by ma...@apache.org.
Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>Le 06/03/2012 10:26, markt@apache.org a écrit :
>
>> The right way for solr to do this would be to package rename csv the
>same way Tomcat does for encode.
>
>Yes that's what I suggested. How do you do this in Tomcat? Did you copy
>
>and rename the packages manually, or do you have a tool that automates
>the process?
Tomcat's ant build script does a simple find and replace. I'd dig out an svn reference but I'm on my phone at the moment.
Mark
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 06/03/2012 10:26, markt@apache.org a écrit :
> The right way for solr to do this would be to package rename csv the same way Tomcat does for encode.
Yes that's what I suggested. How do you do this in Tomcat? Did you copy
and rename the packages manually, or do you have a tool that automates
the process?
Emmanuel Bourg
Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by ma...@apache.org.
markt@apache.org wrote:
>Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>Le 06/03/2012 08:52, Jörg Schaible a écrit :
>>
>>> All that we can do now is to put a big red warning at commons-cvs
>>homepage:
>>>
>>> ========== %< ==========
>>> CAUTION: If you use Apache Solr you run implicitly an incompatible
>>version
>>> of commons-csv that may affect your application. We have to refuse
>>any help
>>> for problems if you run also Apache Solr - we are sorry!
>>> ========== %< ==========
>>
>>The warning is a good idea. It might suggest upgrading to a more
>recent
>>
>>version of Solr.
>>
>>
>>>> ps: I'm away for the week in Korea w/ limited internet access, so
>>I'll
>>>> most likely be unable to respond personally to any followups.
>>>
>>> ... and leaving the user's of commons-csv and Solr in the rain.
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Well, solr-commons-csv has been out in the wild for 2 years, so I
>guess
>>
>>the issue can wait a few more days now ;)
>
>The right way for solr to do this would be to package rename csv the
>same way Tomcat does for encode.
Grrr. Sorry auto correct. That should be dbcp.
Mark
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by ma...@apache.org.
Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>Le 06/03/2012 08:52, Jörg Schaible a écrit :
>
>> All that we can do now is to put a big red warning at commons-cvs
>homepage:
>>
>> ========== %< ==========
>> CAUTION: If you use Apache Solr you run implicitly an incompatible
>version
>> of commons-csv that may affect your application. We have to refuse
>any help
>> for problems if you run also Apache Solr - we are sorry!
>> ========== %< ==========
>
>The warning is a good idea. It might suggest upgrading to a more recent
>
>version of Solr.
>
>
>>> ps: I'm away for the week in Korea w/ limited internet access, so
>I'll
>>> most likely be unable to respond personally to any followups.
>>
>> ... and leaving the user's of commons-csv and Solr in the rain.
>Thanks!
>
>Well, solr-commons-csv has been out in the wild for 2 years, so I guess
>
>the issue can wait a few more days now ;)
The right way for solr to do this would be to package rename csv the same way Tomcat does for encode.
Mark
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 06/03/2012 08:52, Jörg Schaible a écrit :
> All that we can do now is to put a big red warning at commons-cvs homepage:
>
> ========== %< ==========
> CAUTION: If you use Apache Solr you run implicitly an incompatible version
> of commons-csv that may affect your application. We have to refuse any help
> for problems if you run also Apache Solr - we are sorry!
> ========== %< ==========
The warning is a good idea. It might suggest upgrading to a more recent
version of Solr.
>> ps: I'm away for the week in Korea w/ limited internet access, so I'll
>> most likely be unable to respond personally to any followups.
>
> ... and leaving the user's of commons-csv and Solr in the rain. Thanks!
Well, solr-commons-csv has been out in the wild for 2 years, so I guess
the issue can wait a few more days now ;)
Emmanuel Bourg
Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Jörg Schaible <Jo...@scalaris.com>.
Yonik Seeley wrote:
> Not sure I understand the use of "forked" here.
>
> Solr needed CSV handing. Rather than just roll our own, I looked at
> commons-csv and put a *lot* of time and effort into improving it. I
> didn't have time to follow through with a complete release of
> commons-csv, so we just included a snapsot in Solr. It's an internal
> implementation detail, and hopefully you'll all agree that commons-csv
> has benefited. There have been *no* custom additions or anything else
> - it's just a snapshot.
You spoil the classpath for anyone else using commons-csv. This has nothing
to do with Maven. Just by renaming the jar file you gained *nothing*. Would
you've been pleased if we publish jar files that contain classes in package
org.apache.solr.* ???
All that we can do now is to put a big red warning at commons-cvs homepage:
========== %< ==========
CAUTION: If you use Apache Solr you run implicitly an incompatible version
of commons-csv that may affect your application. We have to refuse any help
for problems if you run also Apache Solr - we are sorry!
========== %< ==========
> Of course with the whole maven thing it almost makes it almost look
> like a release. I'm not a maven guy (and I don't particularly care
> for it). If there's something wrong with the maven config, hopefully
> you can explain that to the Lucene/Solr maven guys. To me, it's
> simply an implementation detail within solr and definitely shouldn't
> be advertised as any kind of official release on it's own.
And yet you expose your classes as the "real thing" to the world! Don't you
think there's a reason why the JDK contains apache code in
com.sun.internal.org.apache.*? With the renaming of the artifact in Maven
you have simply additionally hidden the problem!
> ps: I'm away for the week in Korea w/ limited internet access, so I'll
> most likely be unable to respond personally to any followups.
... and leaving the user's of commons-csv and Solr in the rain. Thanks!
Jörg,
Apache Commons PMC
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Hi Yonik,
The issue is not the "fork", that's perfectly fine and your help is
really appreciated. The issue is that it was released without renaming
the package, leading to classpath conflicts when Commons CSV is released
officially.
I opened an issue for Solr:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3204
Emmanuel Bourg
Le 06/03/2012 03:03, Yonik Seeley a écrit :
> Not sure I understand the use of "forked" here.
>
> Solr needed CSV handing. Rather than just roll our own, I looked at
> commons-csv and put a *lot* of time and effort into improving it. I
> didn't have time to follow through with a complete release of
> commons-csv, so we just included a snapsot in Solr. It's an internal
> implementation detail, and hopefully you'll all agree that commons-csv
> has benefited. There have been *no* custom additions or anything else
> - it's just a snapshot.
>
> Of course with the whole maven thing it almost makes it almost look
> like a release. I'm not a maven guy (and I don't particularly care
> for it). If there's something wrong with the maven config, hopefully
> you can explain that to the Lucene/Solr maven guys. To me, it's
> simply an implementation detail within solr and definitely shouldn't
> be advertised as any kind of official release on it's own.
>
> ps: I'm away for the week in Korea w/ limited internet access, so I'll
> most likely be unable to respond personally to any followups.
Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Yonik Seeley <yo...@lucidimagination.com>.
Not sure I understand the use of "forked" here.
Solr needed CSV handing. Rather than just roll our own, I looked at
commons-csv and put a *lot* of time and effort into improving it. I
didn't have time to follow through with a complete release of
commons-csv, so we just included a snapsot in Solr. It's an internal
implementation detail, and hopefully you'll all agree that commons-csv
has benefited. There have been *no* custom additions or anything else
- it's just a snapshot.
Of course with the whole maven thing it almost makes it almost look
like a release. I'm not a maven guy (and I don't particularly care
for it). If there's something wrong with the maven config, hopefully
you can explain that to the Lucene/Solr maven guys. To me, it's
simply an implementation detail within solr and definitely shouldn't
be advertised as any kind of official release on it's own.
ps: I'm away for the week in Korea w/ limited internet access, so I'll
most likely be unable to respond personally to any followups.
-Yonik
lucenerevolution.com - Lucene/Solr Open Source Search Conference.
Boston May 7-10
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
> just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
> artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
>
> http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
>
> Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 06/03/2012 02:50, sebb a écrit :
> Are you sure?
I think so, but I wish I'm wrong. Look into the jar, the package is
org.apache.commons.csv and the pom.xml file included in META-INF is
exactly the one of Commons CSV, the groupId/artifactId isn't even changed.
http://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
Emmanuel Bourg
Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 6 March 2012 01:50, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6 March 2012 01:12, Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
>> just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
>> artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
>
> Are you sure?
>
> Maven Central has
>
> http://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.pom
>
> which uses
>
> <groupId>org.apache.solr</groupId>
> <artifactId>solr-commons-csv</artifactId>
>
> i.e. they have changed the package name.
Looks like they fixed the package name in the pom, but failed to
change it in the associated jar.
Not sure what Maven will make of that, but if it is added to a
classpath I guess it could cause a mess.
Maybe the best would be to raise a bug with Solr.
>> http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
>>
>
> I could not find solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar in the 3.5.0 release
> artifacts, but perhaps I overlooked it.
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 6 March 2012 01:12, Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
> just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
> artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
Are you sure?
Maven Central has
http://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.pom
which uses
<groupId>org.apache.solr</groupId>
<artifactId>solr-commons-csv</artifactId>
i.e. they have changed the package name.
> http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
>
I could not find solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar in the 3.5.0 release
artifacts, but perhaps I overlooked it.
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by ma...@apache.org.
Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers.
>I
>just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
>
>artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
>
>http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
>
>Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
>
>Emmanuel Bourg
This needs to be included in our next report to the board.
Mark
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
The only thing to do is to release [csv] out of the sandbox, when ready,
and let Solr clean up its own mess.
Gary
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:23 PM, James Carman
<jc...@carmanconsulting.com>wrote:
> This is very bothersome, with all the trouble we go through to maintain
> compatibility. Frustrating indeed.
> On Mar 5, 2012 8:13 PM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
> > just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
> > artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
> >
> > http://www.jarvana.com/**jarvana/inspect/org/apache/**
> > solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/**solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar<
> http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
> >
> >
> > Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
> >
> > Emmanuel Bourg
> >
> >
>
--
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by James Carman <jc...@carmanconsulting.com>.
This is very bothersome, with all the trouble we go through to maintain
compatibility. Frustrating indeed.
On Mar 5, 2012 8:13 PM, "Emmanuel Bourg" <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
> just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
> artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
>
> http://www.jarvana.com/**jarvana/inspect/org/apache/**
> solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/**solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar<http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar>
>
> Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 6 March 2012 14:33, Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org> wrote:
> Added my thought to this issue. MIght be better than here where they
> are not reading.
> Let's hope they come around.
I think we should consider changing the package name/Maven id for the
first official release of CSV.
This would force end-users (including Solr) to edit their source in
order to use Commons CSV, but would solve the misuse of the Maven
coordinates.
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
Added my thought to this issue. MIght be better than here where they
are not reading.
Let's hope they come around.
cheers,
Torsten
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr>.
Le 06/03/2012 15:01, Ralph Goers a écrit :
> I don't recall if a board report is required or not, but I would send one even if it isn't required. Obviously, the Solr team doesn't understand what they have done. However, if Solr considers CSV "good enough" to use in their application then it is definitely time to do a release of CSV.
I'll update our report for this month.
Luc
>
> Ralph
>
> On Mar 6, 2012, at 8:51 AM, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>
>> The Solr team isn't listening, the issue was closed as "Won't Fix", *sighs*...
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3204
>>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
>>
>> Le 06/03/2012 02:12, Emmanuel Bourg a écrit :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
>>> just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
>>> artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
>>>
>>> http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
>>>
>>>
>>> Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
>>>
>>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
I don't recall if a board report is required or not, but I would send one even if it isn't required. Obviously, the Solr team doesn't understand what they have done. However, if Solr considers CSV "good enough" to use in their application then it is definitely time to do a release of CSV.
Ralph
On Mar 6, 2012, at 8:51 AM, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> The Solr team isn't listening, the issue was closed as "Won't Fix", *sighs*...
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3204
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
> Le 06/03/2012 02:12, Emmanuel Bourg a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
>> just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
>> artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
>>
>> http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
>>
>>
>> Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
>>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
>
>
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Re: [csv] Commons CSV 3.5 released!
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
The Solr team isn't listening, the issue was closed as "Won't Fix",
*sighs*...
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3204
Emmanuel Bourg
Le 06/03/2012 02:12, Emmanuel Bourg a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> This is actually a bad joke for all of us binary compatibility lovers. I
> just noticed that Solr forked Commons CSV and released it as a separate
> artifact, but kept the org.apache.commons.csv package unchanged :(
>
> http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/inspect/org/apache/solr/solr-commons-csv/3.5.0/solr-commons-csv-3.5.0.jar
>
>
> Not a very pleasant discovery. I don't know how to handle this yet.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>