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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> on 2012/07/10 04:41:52 UTC
[DISCUSS] The CloudStack Brand
Hi folks:
So one of the things that PMCs are charged with is maintaining the
brand of a project[1][2], and while it's a responsibility of the PMC,
I brought the discussion here to enable some broader conversations and
to solicit input from folks in general.
This discussion is not about the mascot - but rather the name and
logo. (or in trademark terms, the wordmark, logo, logotype)
As a project we are provided tremendous flexibility in establishing
our brand - you'll even note some projects have completely changed
their name (Cordova nee CallBack, nee Phonegap). In this email I am
not going to share my opinion (I'll follow up with that in a bit), but
rather want to call for participation on this topic. Please weigh in.
--David
[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#brand-policy
[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility
Re: [DISCUSS] The CloudStack Brand
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Jul 9, 2012, at 11:15 PM, David Nalley wrote:
> #Stance
> My personal stance is that the name should be 'Apache CloudStack' .
>
Mine as well... I see no reason to change and many reasons
for it to remain CloudStack.
Other podlings were required to rename, simply because they didn't
have the rights to use the old names... This isn't the case here.
Re: [DISCUSS] The CloudStack Brand
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:15 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 10:41 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > Hi folks:
> >
> > So one of the things that PMCs are charged with is maintaining the
> > brand of a project[1][2], and while it's a responsibility of the PMC,
> > I brought the discussion here to enable some broader conversations and
> > to solicit input from folks in general.
> >
> > This discussion is not about the mascot - but rather the name and
> > logo. (or in trademark terms, the wordmark, logo, logotype)
> >
> > As a project we are provided tremendous flexibility in establishing
> > our brand - you'll even note some projects have completely changed
> > their name (Cordova nee CallBack, nee Phonegap). In this email I am
> > not going to share my opinion (I'll follow up with that in a bit), but
> > rather want to call for participation on this topic. Please weigh in.
> >
> > --David
> >
> > [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#brand-policy
> > [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am back, this time with my opinion. I am breaking this up into two
> sections:
> 1. my stance
> 2. my reasoning
>
> Branding is an interesting thing to me, and I am biased wrt to this
> project, as I think I had a small part in promoting the existing
> CloudStack brand.
>
> #Stance
> My personal stance is that the name should be 'Apache CloudStack' .
>
>
I am in complete agreement, especially since the mark has already been
taken by Citrix and most likely is clear and free for Apache after the
handoff.
Also there's no reason to abandon all the investment to date on this mark.
You summarize all these very well in the justification section below.
> For the record, you can see the two different types of brand logos
> currently in use here:
> http://people.apache.org/~ke4qqq/runbook/
>
> The main logo is center of the page - and says cloudstack in blue and
> gray with a ruled line and 'open source cloud computing' below it.
>
> The secondary logo is in the top left hand of the page above - and
> just has cloudstack in blue and gray. (best seen with firefox or
> chrome, I seem to recall IE not liking SVGs, but maybe that's a
> non-issue now).
>
> There's been some discussion of adding some Apache elements like the
> feather or the 'Apache' wordmark, and while I am thrilled to be at the
> ASF, I don't personally want to see us do this, and I'll discuss that
> below as well.
>
> #Justifications:
> * The 'Apache CloudStack' name shows both our lineage (CloudStack) and
> our (hopeful) future at the ASF - and it complies with the incubator
> guidelines to boot.
> * This logo is already widely in use, and all things considered is
> relatively well spread for an open source brand as nascent as it is.
> * This logo is already on thousands of items of swag from luggage tags
> to tshirts and everything in between
> * The current logo works well even in single color, which is
> economical should we desire to produce swag or use it in print.
> * I'd argue the current brand is pretty good, and changing it,
> especially if it's a drastic change is a decent amount of work to get
> done.
> * (Warning: Lazy side of me appearing) If there's nothing broken, we
> shouldn't expend the cycles on reinventing the brand which distracts
> us from the real objective of the project.
>
> ##Reasons for not adding Apache elements:
> * Some of the most successful ASF projects do not have either the
> wordmark in their logo or feather-logo. Namely Hadoop, Cassandra, etc.
> http://hadoop.apache.org/images/hadoop-logo.jpg
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sog/4561537432/
> * The incubator frowns on projects with an undue fascination with the
> Apache brand.[1]
> * If it's the feather-log it becomes much more difficult to print
>
> ## Potential downsides
>
> There are some downsides - I realize that - and am even happy to point
> them out.
> 1. There was previously a commercial product (as well as the project)
> also known as CloudStack - and the producer of that product still has
> some folks that can't discern the difference between the ASF project
> and their product based on the ASF-project. (this is a training
> problem with individuals, not the body corporate IMO, but I am biased)
> 2. There's some striking similarity to another IaaS project, though
> FWIU the two names originated within a few months of each other.
>
> Your thoughts, comments, and flames are welcome
>
> --David
>
> [1]
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html#template-brand-fascination
>
--
Best Regards,
-- Alex
RE: [DISCUSS] The CloudStack Brand
Posted by Kevin Kluge <Ke...@citrix.com>.
I don't see an upside to a change. And there's clear downside from loss of what has been built. So I view any move from "Apache CloudStack" as a counter-productive distraction.
-kevin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Kinsella [mailto:jlk@stratosec.co]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:42 PM
> To: <cl...@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] The CloudStack Brand
>
> Well put...think I completely agree on all the points. I can't think of a strong
> reason not to hold course. The only negative thing I can think of against the
> CloudStack brand is it's not as well known as the other IaaS project with the
> strikingly similar name - hopefully we'll fix that. :)
>
> John
>
> On Jul 9, 2012, at 8:15 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 10:41 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >> Hi folks:
> >>
> >> So one of the things that PMCs are charged with is maintaining the
> >> brand of a project[1][2], and while it's a responsibility of the PMC,
> >> I brought the discussion here to enable some broader conversations
> >> and to solicit input from folks in general.
> >>
> >> This discussion is not about the mascot - but rather the name and
> >> logo. (or in trademark terms, the wordmark, logo, logotype)
> >>
> >> As a project we are provided tremendous flexibility in establishing
> >> our brand - you'll even note some projects have completely changed
> >> their name (Cordova nee CallBack, nee Phonegap). In this email I am
> >> not going to share my opinion (I'll follow up with that in a bit),
> >> but rather want to call for participation on this topic. Please weigh in.
> >>
> >> --David
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#brand-policy
> >> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I am back, this time with my opinion. I am breaking this up into two
> sections:
> > 1. my stance
> > 2. my reasoning
> >
> > Branding is an interesting thing to me, and I am biased wrt to this
> > project, as I think I had a small part in promoting the existing
> > CloudStack brand.
> >
> > #Stance
> > My personal stance is that the name should be 'Apache CloudStack' .
> >
> > For the record, you can see the two different types of brand logos
> > currently in use here:
> > http://people.apache.org/~ke4qqq/runbook/
> >
> > The main logo is center of the page - and says cloudstack in blue and
> > gray with a ruled line and 'open source cloud computing' below it.
> >
> > The secondary logo is in the top left hand of the page above - and
> > just has cloudstack in blue and gray. (best seen with firefox or
> > chrome, I seem to recall IE not liking SVGs, but maybe that's a
> > non-issue now).
> >
> > There's been some discussion of adding some Apache elements like the
> > feather or the 'Apache' wordmark, and while I am thrilled to be at the
> > ASF, I don't personally want to see us do this, and I'll discuss that
> > below as well.
> >
> > #Justifications:
> > * The 'Apache CloudStack' name shows both our lineage (CloudStack) and
> > our (hopeful) future at the ASF - and it complies with the incubator
> > guidelines to boot.
> > * This logo is already widely in use, and all things considered is
> > relatively well spread for an open source brand as nascent as it is.
> > * This logo is already on thousands of items of swag from luggage tags
> > to tshirts and everything in between
> > * The current logo works well even in single color, which is
> > economical should we desire to produce swag or use it in print.
> > * I'd argue the current brand is pretty good, and changing it,
> > especially if it's a drastic change is a decent amount of work to get
> > done.
> > * (Warning: Lazy side of me appearing) If there's nothing broken, we
> > shouldn't expend the cycles on reinventing the brand which distracts
> > us from the real objective of the project.
> >
> > ##Reasons for not adding Apache elements:
> > * Some of the most successful ASF projects do not have either the
> > wordmark in their logo or feather-logo. Namely Hadoop, Cassandra, etc.
> > http://hadoop.apache.org/images/hadoop-logo.jpg
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/sog/4561537432/
> > * The incubator frowns on projects with an undue fascination with the
> > Apache brand.[1]
> > * If it's the feather-log it becomes much more difficult to print
> >
> > ## Potential downsides
> >
> > There are some downsides - I realize that - and am even happy to point
> > them out.
> > 1. There was previously a commercial product (as well as the project)
> > also known as CloudStack - and the producer of that product still has
> > some folks that can't discern the difference between the ASF project
> > and their product based on the ASF-project. (this is a training
> > problem with individuals, not the body corporate IMO, but I am biased)
> > 2. There's some striking similarity to another IaaS project, though
> > FWIU the two names originated within a few months of each other.
> >
> > Your thoughts, comments, and flames are welcome
> >
> > --David
> >
> > [1]
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html#template-brand-fascin
> > ation
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] The CloudStack Brand
Posted by John Kinsella <jl...@stratosec.co>.
Well put…think I completely agree on all the points. I can't think of a strong reason not to hold course. The only negative thing I can think of against the CloudStack brand is it's not as well known as the other IaaS project with the strikingly similar name - hopefully we'll fix that. :)
John
On Jul 9, 2012, at 8:15 PM, David Nalley wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 10:41 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>> Hi folks:
>>
>> So one of the things that PMCs are charged with is maintaining the
>> brand of a project[1][2], and while it's a responsibility of the PMC,
>> I brought the discussion here to enable some broader conversations and
>> to solicit input from folks in general.
>>
>> This discussion is not about the mascot - but rather the name and
>> logo. (or in trademark terms, the wordmark, logo, logotype)
>>
>> As a project we are provided tremendous flexibility in establishing
>> our brand - you'll even note some projects have completely changed
>> their name (Cordova nee CallBack, nee Phonegap). In this email I am
>> not going to share my opinion (I'll follow up with that in a bit), but
>> rather want to call for participation on this topic. Please weigh in.
>>
>> --David
>>
>> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#brand-policy
>> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am back, this time with my opinion. I am breaking this up into two sections:
> 1. my stance
> 2. my reasoning
>
> Branding is an interesting thing to me, and I am biased wrt to this
> project, as I think I had a small part in promoting the existing
> CloudStack brand.
>
> #Stance
> My personal stance is that the name should be 'Apache CloudStack' .
>
> For the record, you can see the two different types of brand logos
> currently in use here:
> http://people.apache.org/~ke4qqq/runbook/
>
> The main logo is center of the page - and says cloudstack in blue and
> gray with a ruled line and 'open source cloud computing' below it.
>
> The secondary logo is in the top left hand of the page above - and
> just has cloudstack in blue and gray. (best seen with firefox or
> chrome, I seem to recall IE not liking SVGs, but maybe that's a
> non-issue now).
>
> There's been some discussion of adding some Apache elements like the
> feather or the 'Apache' wordmark, and while I am thrilled to be at the
> ASF, I don't personally want to see us do this, and I'll discuss that
> below as well.
>
> #Justifications:
> * The 'Apache CloudStack' name shows both our lineage (CloudStack) and
> our (hopeful) future at the ASF - and it complies with the incubator
> guidelines to boot.
> * This logo is already widely in use, and all things considered is
> relatively well spread for an open source brand as nascent as it is.
> * This logo is already on thousands of items of swag from luggage tags
> to tshirts and everything in between
> * The current logo works well even in single color, which is
> economical should we desire to produce swag or use it in print.
> * I'd argue the current brand is pretty good, and changing it,
> especially if it's a drastic change is a decent amount of work to get
> done.
> * (Warning: Lazy side of me appearing) If there's nothing broken, we
> shouldn't expend the cycles on reinventing the brand which distracts
> us from the real objective of the project.
>
> ##Reasons for not adding Apache elements:
> * Some of the most successful ASF projects do not have either the
> wordmark in their logo or feather-logo. Namely Hadoop, Cassandra, etc.
> http://hadoop.apache.org/images/hadoop-logo.jpg
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sog/4561537432/
> * The incubator frowns on projects with an undue fascination with the
> Apache brand.[1]
> * If it's the feather-log it becomes much more difficult to print
>
> ## Potential downsides
>
> There are some downsides - I realize that - and am even happy to point
> them out.
> 1. There was previously a commercial product (as well as the project)
> also known as CloudStack - and the producer of that product still has
> some folks that can't discern the difference between the ASF project
> and their product based on the ASF-project. (this is a training
> problem with individuals, not the body corporate IMO, but I am biased)
> 2. There's some striking similarity to another IaaS project, though
> FWIU the two names originated within a few months of each other.
>
> Your thoughts, comments, and flames are welcome
>
> --David
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html#template-brand-fascination
>
Re: [DISCUSS] The CloudStack Brand
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 10:41 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> So one of the things that PMCs are charged with is maintaining the
> brand of a project[1][2], and while it's a responsibility of the PMC,
> I brought the discussion here to enable some broader conversations and
> to solicit input from folks in general.
>
> This discussion is not about the mascot - but rather the name and
> logo. (or in trademark terms, the wordmark, logo, logotype)
>
> As a project we are provided tremendous flexibility in establishing
> our brand - you'll even note some projects have completely changed
> their name (Cordova nee CallBack, nee Phonegap). In this email I am
> not going to share my opinion (I'll follow up with that in a bit), but
> rather want to call for participation on this topic. Please weigh in.
>
> --David
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#brand-policy
> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility
Hi folks,
I am back, this time with my opinion. I am breaking this up into two sections:
1. my stance
2. my reasoning
Branding is an interesting thing to me, and I am biased wrt to this
project, as I think I had a small part in promoting the existing
CloudStack brand.
#Stance
My personal stance is that the name should be 'Apache CloudStack' .
For the record, you can see the two different types of brand logos
currently in use here:
http://people.apache.org/~ke4qqq/runbook/
The main logo is center of the page - and says cloudstack in blue and
gray with a ruled line and 'open source cloud computing' below it.
The secondary logo is in the top left hand of the page above - and
just has cloudstack in blue and gray. (best seen with firefox or
chrome, I seem to recall IE not liking SVGs, but maybe that's a
non-issue now).
There's been some discussion of adding some Apache elements like the
feather or the 'Apache' wordmark, and while I am thrilled to be at the
ASF, I don't personally want to see us do this, and I'll discuss that
below as well.
#Justifications:
* The 'Apache CloudStack' name shows both our lineage (CloudStack) and
our (hopeful) future at the ASF - and it complies with the incubator
guidelines to boot.
* This logo is already widely in use, and all things considered is
relatively well spread for an open source brand as nascent as it is.
* This logo is already on thousands of items of swag from luggage tags
to tshirts and everything in between
* The current logo works well even in single color, which is
economical should we desire to produce swag or use it in print.
* I'd argue the current brand is pretty good, and changing it,
especially if it's a drastic change is a decent amount of work to get
done.
* (Warning: Lazy side of me appearing) If there's nothing broken, we
shouldn't expend the cycles on reinventing the brand which distracts
us from the real objective of the project.
##Reasons for not adding Apache elements:
* Some of the most successful ASF projects do not have either the
wordmark in their logo or feather-logo. Namely Hadoop, Cassandra, etc.
http://hadoop.apache.org/images/hadoop-logo.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sog/4561537432/
* The incubator frowns on projects with an undue fascination with the
Apache brand.[1]
* If it's the feather-log it becomes much more difficult to print
## Potential downsides
There are some downsides - I realize that - and am even happy to point
them out.
1. There was previously a commercial product (as well as the project)
also known as CloudStack - and the producer of that product still has
some folks that can't discern the difference between the ASF project
and their product based on the ASF-project. (this is a training
problem with individuals, not the body corporate IMO, but I am biased)
2. There's some striking similarity to another IaaS project, though
FWIU the two names originated within a few months of each other.
Your thoughts, comments, and flames are welcome
--David
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html#template-brand-fascination