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Posted to dev@couchdb.apache.org by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> on 2014/04/28 21:28:54 UTC
[DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
All,
The PMC would like to move forward towards establishing an Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct (CoC for short). To make that happen, we need your help.
We do not at this time have a specific text proposal. We'd like to open that up to contributions from the developer community. Examples of CoCs from other projects that you feel are well-crafted would be most welcome.
For my contribution: the long-standing Debian project has just voted in their Code of Conduct. I encourage you to review the text of this CoC at http://www.debian.org/vote/2014/vote_002 as I think it might be a good starting place for our efforts. Many of the points (such as having discussion on development direction should be made in public) are directly parallel to tenants upheld by the ASF and CouchDB itself.
-Joan
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@nms.de>.
On 29 April 2014 10:54, Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan@ochtman.nl
> >wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > The PMC would like to move forward towards establishing an Apache
> > CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct (CoC for short). To make that happen,
> we
> > need your help.
> >
> > Sounds like a good idea. Here are the Python and Django versions:
> >
> > https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> > https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/
> >
> > I rather like the introduction to Django's CoC, explaining why the CoC
> > exists.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dirkjan
> >
>
> +1 the the djangoproject one is pretty good.
>
> - benoit
>
also +1 - there are many good points in the Django project CoC we can use.
I especially like the statement where the CoC applies (IRC, ML and so forth
...)
--
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!
http://www.couchdb-buch.de
http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de
GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman <di...@ochtman.nl>wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> > The PMC would like to move forward towards establishing an Apache
> CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct (CoC for short). To make that happen, we
> need your help.
>
> Sounds like a good idea. Here are the Python and Django versions:
>
> https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/
>
> I rather like the introduction to Django's CoC, explaining why the CoC
> exists.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dirkjan
>
+1 the the djangoproject one is pretty good.
- benoit
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Dirkjan Ochtman <di...@ochtman.nl>.
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> The PMC would like to move forward towards establishing an Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct (CoC for short). To make that happen, we need your help.
Sounds like a good idea. Here are the Python and Django versions:
https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/
I rather like the introduction to Django's CoC, explaining why the CoC exists.
Cheers,
Dirkjan
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Jason,
My thinking here is modelled on a typical HR policy. There are minor
offences and major offences. Minor ones are met with warnings, and
major ones are met with summary dismissal.
If a PMC member unambiguously, and seriously, acts against the best
interests of the project, then I think it is fitting to remove that
person from the PMC. No warnings, no time-outs.
Everything is reversible. If the person reforms, then we may want to
invite the back. But I hardly think it's likely.
In any case, this whole thing would be decided via voting. So I'm not
worried about the rules being applied irresponsibly.
The way I imagine it working is that, let's say I spot some behaviour
that violates our CoC, I would start a vote on the private@ list with
the subject "[VOTE] Formal warning for Ash Smith" and I would
highlight the part of the CoC that had been violated. Other members of
the PMC would vote in private, lending +1 or -1 votes. If the vote
passes, I would issue a formal warning on behalf of the project.
Warnings would be done in private, and there would be a chance to
appeal (which would be, again, voted on). I think it's a good idea to
post a note to the relevant thread indicating that the community
member received a warning for the behaviour.
Instead of a third warning, we'd issue a time-out. Again decided on by
vote. This person would be removed from the mailing list, IRC, or
JIRA. Whatever makes sense in context. Perhaps all of them at once.
Repeated time-outs would, I guess, just mean that the time-outs get
longer each time. You could start with a day, a week, or whatever, and
go to a month, three months, six months, and so on.
The only thing left to decide is what to do about commit bits and PMC
membership. I think if a committer is put on time-out a second or
third time, we ought to be thinking about removing that person from
the PMC or committership.
On 29 April 2014 14:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mi...@cloudant.com>wrote:
>
>> On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Rule: No profanity
>> >
>> > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also cocky
>> > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in a
>> > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your groin.
>> > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of bulls
>> > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it stands
>> for
>> > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
>>
>> +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
>> unpleasant.
>>
>> -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their crotches.
>> I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into and is
>> relevant here.
>>
>
> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to this
> idea. Thanks.
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Makes me realise: we ought to be explicit about how this applies to
IRC and our moderation policy.
On 29 April 2014 22:48, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Some more links.
>
> Mikeal Rogers pointed me to:
>
> http://nodeirc.info/
>
> Node uses the following CoC for IRC:
>
> http://confcodeofconduct.com/
>
> I like this a lot:
>
> http://blog.izs.me/post/30036893703/policy-on-trolling
>
> On 29 April 2014 22:34, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Coraline Ada Ehmke (via Twitter) pointed me to this:
>>
>> https://github.com/bantik/contributor_covenant
>>
>> On 29 April 2014 17:54, Nick North <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I prefer the flavour of the Django one. The first point is, "Be welcoming,
>>> friendly and patient" which feels to me to be about going out of your way
>>> to help people and making a positive effort to be good, and the rest is in
>>> the same spirit. The Debian one feels a bit less positive: "be wiling to
>>> explain to others", "try to stay on topic" etc. The Django one also gives
>>> examples of things you may be doing wrong, which can be helpful. But both
>>> are good - I certainly wouldn't vote against something that looked like the
>>> Debian one.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 April 2014 16:36, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps we ought to take the best bits of both and stick it in a wiki
>>>> page where we can collaboratively edit. There are a few things from my
>>>> notes that I likely want to add in addition to both.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 29 April 2014 16:58, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
>>>> > Can I ask folks who prefer the Django one to the Debian one specially
>>>> > why? Is there something in Django's that's not in Debian's? Is there
>>>> stuff
>>>> > in the Debian one that people don't like explicitlly?
>>>> >
>>>> > For me, I agree the Django one is shorter and better formatted, but it
>>>> > seemed to cover less ground than the Debian one.
>>>> >
>>>> > -Joan
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Nick North" <no...@gmail.com>
>>>> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:30:48 AM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
>>>> >
>>>> > +1 on the CoC idea. I also like the Django example as a starting point.
>>>> And
>>>> > definitely +1 on no profanity - plenty of people are offended by it, and
>>>> > that in itself should be enough to rule it out. It also adds nothing to
>>>> the
>>>> > process of communicating ideas to the community.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nick
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 29 April 2014 13:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mike.rhodes@cloudant.com
>>>> >> >wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > > Rule: No profanity
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also
>>>> >> cocky
>>>> >> > > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in
>>>> a
>>>> >> > > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your
>>>> >> groin.
>>>> >> > > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of
>>>> >> bulls
>>>> >> > > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it
>>>> stands
>>>> >> > for
>>>> >> > > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
>>>> >> > unpleasant.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their
>>>> >> crotches.
>>>> >> > I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into
>>>> and
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> > relevant here.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to
>>>> this
>>>> >> idea. Thanks.
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Noah Slater
>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Some more links.
Mikeal Rogers pointed me to:
http://nodeirc.info/
Node uses the following CoC for IRC:
http://confcodeofconduct.com/
I like this a lot:
http://blog.izs.me/post/30036893703/policy-on-trolling
On 29 April 2014 22:34, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Coraline Ada Ehmke (via Twitter) pointed me to this:
>
> https://github.com/bantik/contributor_covenant
>
> On 29 April 2014 17:54, Nick North <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I prefer the flavour of the Django one. The first point is, "Be welcoming,
>> friendly and patient" which feels to me to be about going out of your way
>> to help people and making a positive effort to be good, and the rest is in
>> the same spirit. The Debian one feels a bit less positive: "be wiling to
>> explain to others", "try to stay on topic" etc. The Django one also gives
>> examples of things you may be doing wrong, which can be helpful. But both
>> are good - I certainly wouldn't vote against something that looked like the
>> Debian one.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>> On 29 April 2014 16:36, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps we ought to take the best bits of both and stick it in a wiki
>>> page where we can collaboratively edit. There are a few things from my
>>> notes that I likely want to add in addition to both.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 April 2014 16:58, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
>>> > Can I ask folks who prefer the Django one to the Debian one specially
>>> > why? Is there something in Django's that's not in Debian's? Is there
>>> stuff
>>> > in the Debian one that people don't like explicitlly?
>>> >
>>> > For me, I agree the Django one is shorter and better formatted, but it
>>> > seemed to cover less ground than the Debian one.
>>> >
>>> > -Joan
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Nick North" <no...@gmail.com>
>>> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:30:48 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
>>> >
>>> > +1 on the CoC idea. I also like the Django example as a starting point.
>>> And
>>> > definitely +1 on no profanity - plenty of people are offended by it, and
>>> > that in itself should be enough to rule it out. It also adds nothing to
>>> the
>>> > process of communicating ideas to the community.
>>> >
>>> > Nick
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 29 April 2014 13:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mike.rhodes@cloudant.com
>>> >> >wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > Rule: No profanity
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also
>>> >> cocky
>>> >> > > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in
>>> a
>>> >> > > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your
>>> >> groin.
>>> >> > > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of
>>> >> bulls
>>> >> > > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it
>>> stands
>>> >> > for
>>> >> > > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
>>> >> > unpleasant.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their
>>> >> crotches.
>>> >> > I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into
>>> and
>>> >> is
>>> >> > relevant here.
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to
>>> this
>>> >> idea. Thanks.
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Coraline Ada Ehmke (via Twitter) pointed me to this:
https://github.com/bantik/contributor_covenant
On 29 April 2014 17:54, Nick North <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I prefer the flavour of the Django one. The first point is, "Be welcoming,
> friendly and patient" which feels to me to be about going out of your way
> to help people and making a positive effort to be good, and the rest is in
> the same spirit. The Debian one feels a bit less positive: "be wiling to
> explain to others", "try to stay on topic" etc. The Django one also gives
> examples of things you may be doing wrong, which can be helpful. But both
> are good - I certainly wouldn't vote against something that looked like the
> Debian one.
>
> Nick
>
>
> On 29 April 2014 16:36, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps we ought to take the best bits of both and stick it in a wiki
>> page where we can collaboratively edit. There are a few things from my
>> notes that I likely want to add in addition to both.
>>
>>
>> On 29 April 2014 16:58, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
>> > Can I ask folks who prefer the Django one to the Debian one specially
>> > why? Is there something in Django's that's not in Debian's? Is there
>> stuff
>> > in the Debian one that people don't like explicitlly?
>> >
>> > For me, I agree the Django one is shorter and better formatted, but it
>> > seemed to cover less ground than the Debian one.
>> >
>> > -Joan
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Nick North" <no...@gmail.com>
>> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:30:48 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
>> >
>> > +1 on the CoC idea. I also like the Django example as a starting point.
>> And
>> > definitely +1 on no profanity - plenty of people are offended by it, and
>> > that in itself should be enough to rule it out. It also adds nothing to
>> the
>> > process of communicating ideas to the community.
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> >
>> > On 29 April 2014 13:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mike.rhodes@cloudant.com
>> >> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Rule: No profanity
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also
>> >> cocky
>> >> > > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in
>> a
>> >> > > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your
>> >> groin.
>> >> > > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of
>> >> bulls
>> >> > > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it
>> stands
>> >> > for
>> >> > > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
>> >> >
>> >> > +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
>> >> > unpleasant.
>> >> >
>> >> > -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their
>> >> crotches.
>> >> > I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into
>> and
>> >> is
>> >> > relevant here.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to
>> this
>> >> idea. Thanks.
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Nick North <no...@gmail.com>.
I prefer the flavour of the Django one. The first point is, "Be welcoming,
friendly and patient" which feels to me to be about going out of your way
to help people and making a positive effort to be good, and the rest is in
the same spirit. The Debian one feels a bit less positive: "be wiling to
explain to others", "try to stay on topic" etc. The Django one also gives
examples of things you may be doing wrong, which can be helpful. But both
are good - I certainly wouldn't vote against something that looked like the
Debian one.
Nick
On 29 April 2014 16:36, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Perhaps we ought to take the best bits of both and stick it in a wiki
> page where we can collaboratively edit. There are a few things from my
> notes that I likely want to add in addition to both.
>
>
> On 29 April 2014 16:58, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
> > Can I ask folks who prefer the Django one to the Debian one specially
> > why? Is there something in Django's that's not in Debian's? Is there
> stuff
> > in the Debian one that people don't like explicitlly?
> >
> > For me, I agree the Django one is shorter and better formatted, but it
> > seemed to cover less ground than the Debian one.
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Nick North" <no...@gmail.com>
> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:30:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
> >
> > +1 on the CoC idea. I also like the Django example as a starting point.
> And
> > definitely +1 on no profanity - plenty of people are offended by it, and
> > that in itself should be enough to rule it out. It also adds nothing to
> the
> > process of communicating ideas to the community.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > On 29 April 2014 13:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mike.rhodes@cloudant.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Rule: No profanity
> >> > >
> >> > > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also
> >> cocky
> >> > > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in
> a
> >> > > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your
> >> groin.
> >> > > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of
> >> bulls
> >> > > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it
> stands
> >> > for
> >> > > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
> >> >
> >> > +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
> >> > unpleasant.
> >> >
> >> > -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their
> >> crotches.
> >> > I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into
> and
> >> is
> >> > relevant here.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to
> this
> >> idea. Thanks.
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Perhaps we ought to take the best bits of both and stick it in a wiki
page where we can collaboratively edit. There are a few things from my
notes that I likely want to add in addition to both.
On 29 April 2014 16:58, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
> Can I ask folks who prefer the Django one to the Debian one specially
> why? Is there something in Django's that's not in Debian's? Is there stuff
> in the Debian one that people don't like explicitlly?
>
> For me, I agree the Django one is shorter and better formatted, but it
> seemed to cover less ground than the Debian one.
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick North" <no...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:30:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
>
> +1 on the CoC idea. I also like the Django example as a starting point. And
> definitely +1 on no profanity - plenty of people are offended by it, and
> that in itself should be enough to rule it out. It also adds nothing to the
> process of communicating ideas to the community.
>
> Nick
>
>
> On 29 April 2014 13:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mike.rhodes@cloudant.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Rule: No profanity
>> > >
>> > > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also
>> cocky
>> > > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in a
>> > > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your
>> groin.
>> > > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of
>> bulls
>> > > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it stands
>> > for
>> > > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
>> >
>> > +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
>> > unpleasant.
>> >
>> > -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their
>> crotches.
>> > I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into and
>> is
>> > relevant here.
>> >
>>
>> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to this
>> idea. Thanks.
>>
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net>.
Can I ask folks who prefer the Django one to the Debian one specially
why? Is there something in Django's that's not in Debian's? Is there stuff
in the Debian one that people don't like explicitlly?
For me, I agree the Django one is shorter and better formatted, but it
seemed to cover less ground than the Debian one.
-Joan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick North" <no...@gmail.com>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:30:48 AM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
+1 on the CoC idea. I also like the Django example as a starting point. And
definitely +1 on no profanity - plenty of people are offended by it, and
that in itself should be enough to rule it out. It also adds nothing to the
process of communicating ideas to the community.
Nick
On 29 April 2014 13:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mike.rhodes@cloudant.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Rule: No profanity
> > >
> > > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also
> cocky
> > > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in a
> > > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your
> groin.
> > > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of
> bulls
> > > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it stands
> > for
> > > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
> >
> > +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
> > unpleasant.
> >
> > -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their
> crotches.
> > I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into and
> is
> > relevant here.
> >
>
> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to this
> idea. Thanks.
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Nick North <no...@gmail.com>.
+1 on the CoC idea. I also like the Django example as a starting point. And
definitely +1 on no profanity - plenty of people are offended by it, and
that in itself should be enough to rule it out. It also adds nothing to the
process of communicating ideas to the community.
Nick
On 29 April 2014 13:15, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mike.rhodes@cloudant.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Rule: No profanity
> > >
> > > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also
> cocky
> > > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in a
> > > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your
> groin.
> > > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of
> bulls
> > > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it stands
> > for
> > > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
> >
> > +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
> > unpleasant.
> >
> > -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their
> crotches.
> > I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into and
> is
> > relevant here.
> >
>
> Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to this
> idea. Thanks.
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Mike Rhodes <mi...@cloudant.com>wrote:
> On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Rule: No profanity
> >
> > Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also cocky
> > faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in a
> > men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your groin.
> > Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of bulls
> > locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it stands
> for
> > are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
>
> +1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
> unpleasant.
>
> -1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their crotches.
> I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into and is
> relevant here.
>
Well anyway I'm glad there's some momentum (if not yet consensus) to this
idea. Thanks.
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Mike Rhodes <mi...@cloudant.com>.
On 29 April 2014 11:18, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rule: No profanity
>
> Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also cocky
> faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in a
> men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your groin.
> Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of bulls
> locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it stands for
> are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
+1 to guidance against profanity, particularly casual. Crassness is
unpleasant.
-1 to casual sexism that women don't swear, fart or scratch their crotches.
I know you didn't mean harm, but this trap is too easy to fall into and is
relevant here.
Mike.
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rule: No profanity
>
> Consequence: private email from $somebody asking to stop (i.e. I propose
> that this is the most minor transgression possible, but it's still
> frowned-upon)
Big +1. First ask politely in private what's you're doing wrong, why
it's wrong and how you should fix that. An only if this step doesn't
helps move things on public. This matter of being polite, not just
about CoC.
--
,,,^..^,,,
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>.
Noah, may I propose a rule and consequences not listed in any of the CoCs
so-far:
Rule: No profanity
Consequence: private email from $somebody asking to stop (i.e. I propose
that this is the most minor transgression possible, but it's still
frowned-upon)
Background:
Sorry if this is bike shedding, but I wish there was less profanity in the
community. In private I am very profane. Just the other day, my own mother
told me how disappointed she was! And I've done it in this community too.
But I have resolved to try to use zero profanity in my professional life.
Casual profanity is characteristically Western. Not every society tolerates
profanity in educated circles. Where I live, Thailand, and across Asia,
profanity in the workplace is exclusively for the crass uneducated class.
It is unthinkable in an office setting. When westerners casually drop
F-bombs, they are unknowingly embarrassing themselves before a great
untapped software resource: non-Western programmers.
Secondly, this is only a suspicion, but I think profanity (and also cocky
faux hatred), is a shibboleth indicating manhood and that we are in a
men-only club. It's like a loud fart or belch, or scratching your groin.
Men generally curb that behavior in mixed company. It reminds me of bulls
locking horns to impress a mate. Maybe F-bombs and the anger it stands for
are scaring some women away from software. Could be wrong, though.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>wrote:
> TL;DR = Is immediate removal from the project really worth thinking about?
>
> Noah, can you think of an example infraction that could plausibly trigger
> an immediate removal from the project, for a first offense? Yes we can all
> think of hypothetical examples, but something plausible from this community?
>
> (Am I diving into too much specifics too soon?)
>
> I feel like a time-out (of many months or a year) is a pretty harsh
> consequence. I can't think of something (within expectation or project
> experience) that would merit much worse. Multiple offenses, or ignoring a
> time-out, sure: basically to me the only "major infraction" is "repeated or
> multiple willful normal infractions" if you get my meaning.
>
> Imagine a good person who is usually fine but happens to have a very very,
> very, bad day. And they cross the line badly on that one day. I shouldn't
> think they'd be removed for a first offense even if it is grave. Again, I
> am talking about expected or historical real-world behavior, not something
> hypothetical like, say, something criminal. The most egregious behavior I
> can think of (that we should spend time planning for) is severe
> intentional, hurtful, harassment or insult for no productive purpose. Even
> that, as a first offense from someone otherwise in good standing, I do not
> think merits expulsion. Suspension, but not expulsion.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 3:01 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> A requirement for me for our CoC is that we have a well defined
>> response procedure. This is a commonly done for conferences, but is
>> usually kept private to conference organisers. Obviously, ours will be
>> public.
>>
>> To give you an idea of what I'm thinking:
>>
>> - Minor infractions vs. major infractions
>> - A warning system for minor infractions (as is common in most
>> employment situations)
>> - "Time outs" to let people cool off from IRC, the mailing list, etc
>> - An escalation procedure in case warnings and cool-offs are ignored
>> or ineffectual
>> - Immediate removal from the project in the case of major infractions
>>
>> I know this all seems like depressing serious business. But
>> documenting this stuff so that everyone is on the same page, and we've
>> all pre-agreed to it will massively cut down on drama while allowing
>> the project to take swift action when needed.
>>
>> On 28 April 2014 21:48, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
>> > Benoit said:
>> >> This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
>> >> Take something adapted?
>> >
>> > In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
>> >
>> > "We will not hide problems
>> >
>> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
>> > view at all times. Reports that people file online will
>> > promptly become visible to others."
>> >
>> > so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
>> > and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
>> >
>> > -Joan
>> >
>> > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
>> > [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>.
TL;DR = Is immediate removal from the project really worth thinking about?
Noah, can you think of an example infraction that could plausibly trigger
an immediate removal from the project, for a first offense? Yes we can all
think of hypothetical examples, but something plausible from this community?
(Am I diving into too much specifics too soon?)
I feel like a time-out (of many months or a year) is a pretty harsh
consequence. I can't think of something (within expectation or project
experience) that would merit much worse. Multiple offenses, or ignoring a
time-out, sure: basically to me the only "major infraction" is "repeated or
multiple willful normal infractions" if you get my meaning.
Imagine a good person who is usually fine but happens to have a very very,
very, bad day. And they cross the line badly on that one day. I shouldn't
think they'd be removed for a first offense even if it is grave. Again, I
am talking about expected or historical real-world behavior, not something
hypothetical like, say, something criminal. The most egregious behavior I
can think of (that we should spend time planning for) is severe
intentional, hurtful, harassment or insult for no productive purpose. Even
that, as a first offense from someone otherwise in good standing, I do not
think merits expulsion. Suspension, but not expulsion.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 3:01 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> A requirement for me for our CoC is that we have a well defined
> response procedure. This is a commonly done for conferences, but is
> usually kept private to conference organisers. Obviously, ours will be
> public.
>
> To give you an idea of what I'm thinking:
>
> - Minor infractions vs. major infractions
> - A warning system for minor infractions (as is common in most
> employment situations)
> - "Time outs" to let people cool off from IRC, the mailing list, etc
> - An escalation procedure in case warnings and cool-offs are ignored
> or ineffectual
> - Immediate removal from the project in the case of major infractions
>
> I know this all seems like depressing serious business. But
> documenting this stuff so that everyone is on the same page, and we've
> all pre-agreed to it will massively cut down on drama while allowing
> the project to take swift action when needed.
>
> On 28 April 2014 21:48, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
> > Benoit said:
> >> This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
> >> Take something adapted?
> >
> > In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
> >
> > "We will not hide problems
> >
> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
> > view at all times. Reports that people file online will
> > promptly become visible to others."
> >
> > so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> > and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
> > [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net>.
+1, I'll also note that the Debian text has some placeholders
for infractions and positive action being taken to resolve
issues - if agreed we could start with that text and go further.
But I really want to see ideas and text other people have! :D
-Joan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noah Slater" <ns...@apache.org>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 4:01:52 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
A requirement for me for our CoC is that we have a well defined
response procedure. This is a commonly done for conferences, but is
usually kept private to conference organisers. Obviously, ours will be
public.
To give you an idea of what I'm thinking:
- Minor infractions vs. major infractions
- A warning system for minor infractions (as is common in most
employment situations)
- "Time outs" to let people cool off from IRC, the mailing list, etc
- An escalation procedure in case warnings and cool-offs are ignored
or ineffectual
- Immediate removal from the project in the case of major infractions
I know this all seems like depressing serious business. But
documenting this stuff so that everyone is on the same page, and we've
all pre-agreed to it will massively cut down on drama while allowing
the project to take swift action when needed.
On 28 April 2014 21:48, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
> Benoit said:
>> This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
>> Take something adapted?
>
> In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
>
> "We will not hide problems
>
> We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
> view at all times. Reports that people file online will
> promptly become visible to others."
>
> so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
>
> -Joan
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
> [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
A requirement for me for our CoC is that we have a well defined
response procedure. This is a commonly done for conferences, but is
usually kept private to conference organisers. Obviously, ours will be
public.
To give you an idea of what I'm thinking:
- Minor infractions vs. major infractions
- A warning system for minor infractions (as is common in most
employment situations)
- "Time outs" to let people cool off from IRC, the mailing list, etc
- An escalation procedure in case warnings and cool-offs are ignored
or ineffectual
- Immediate removal from the project in the case of major infractions
I know this all seems like depressing serious business. But
documenting this stuff so that everyone is on the same page, and we've
all pre-agreed to it will massively cut down on drama while allowing
the project to take swift action when needed.
On 28 April 2014 21:48, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
> Benoit said:
>> This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
>> Take something adapted?
>
> In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
>
> "We will not hide problems
>
> We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
> view at all times. Reports that people file online will
> promptly become visible to others."
>
> so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
>
> -Joan
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
> [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.
Looks like good information to have on a webpage somewhere that
discusses our policies ;)
-Joan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noah Slater" <ns...@apache.org>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, "Andreas Wenk" <an...@nms.de>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:56:00 AM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Security bugs are not open to the public.
In general, the project operates openly. It is one of our core
principals as an Apache project. But there are numerous private
resources that we use for sensitive items, including but not limited
to:
- Private bugs for security issues
- Private IRC channel for sensitive topics
- Private project mailing list for sensitive topics
- Private foundation level lists for internal affairs
- Private svn repository for sensitive record keeping
- Other misc private infrastructure
On 30 April 2014 09:40, Andy Wenk <an...@nms.de> wrote:
> Hey Joan,
>
> yeah good point. In one of your first emails, you stated below your quote
> for the text ("> We will keep our entire bug report database open for
> public ...")
>
> "so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest."
>
> Question: isn't the bug handling better placed in the bylaws? I understand
> the CoC more in regarding "personal behaviour" instead of "technical
> behaviour". Or am I on the wrong path?
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 30 April 2014 07:24, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> And the good news is that we have a mechanism for that already! :)
>>
>> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/latest/cve/index.html
>>
>> We encourage people to bring security issues to us via this framework.
>> All issues raised are addressed promptly and disclosed as soon as feasible.
>>
>> -Joan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bruno Rohée" <br...@rohee.org>
>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:42:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
>>
>> Joan Touzet wtrote:
>>
>> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public view at all
>> times. Reports that people file online will promptly become visible to
>> others.
>>
>> My two cents : there are good, practical reasons to keep some bugs
>> confidential before a fix/workaround is available. Namely security bugs.
>> It's definitely bad when bugs are kept hidden for months or even years, but
>> surely there is some middle ground to be found. This is especially
>> important as it's reasonable to have an Internet facing CouchDB, unlike
>> many other DBs...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Benoit said:
>> > > This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
>> > > Take something adapted?
>> >
>> > In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
>> >
>> > "We will not hide problems
>> >
>> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
>> > view at all times. Reports that people file online will
>> > promptly become visible to others."
>> >
>> > so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
>> > and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
>> >
>> > -Joan
>> >
>> > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
>> > [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> http://www.couchdb-buch.de
> http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Security bugs are not open to the public.
In general, the project operates openly. It is one of our core
principals as an Apache project. But there are numerous private
resources that we use for sensitive items, including but not limited
to:
- Private bugs for security issues
- Private IRC channel for sensitive topics
- Private project mailing list for sensitive topics
- Private foundation level lists for internal affairs
- Private svn repository for sensitive record keeping
- Other misc private infrastructure
On 30 April 2014 09:40, Andy Wenk <an...@nms.de> wrote:
> Hey Joan,
>
> yeah good point. In one of your first emails, you stated below your quote
> for the text ("> We will keep our entire bug report database open for
> public ...")
>
> "so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest."
>
> Question: isn't the bug handling better placed in the bylaws? I understand
> the CoC more in regarding "personal behaviour" instead of "technical
> behaviour". Or am I on the wrong path?
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 30 April 2014 07:24, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> And the good news is that we have a mechanism for that already! :)
>>
>> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/latest/cve/index.html
>>
>> We encourage people to bring security issues to us via this framework.
>> All issues raised are addressed promptly and disclosed as soon as feasible.
>>
>> -Joan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bruno Rohée" <br...@rohee.org>
>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:42:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
>>
>> Joan Touzet wtrote:
>>
>> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public view at all
>> times. Reports that people file online will promptly become visible to
>> others.
>>
>> My two cents : there are good, practical reasons to keep some bugs
>> confidential before a fix/workaround is available. Namely security bugs.
>> It's definitely bad when bugs are kept hidden for months or even years, but
>> surely there is some middle ground to be found. This is especially
>> important as it's reasonable to have an Internet facing CouchDB, unlike
>> many other DBs...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Benoit said:
>> > > This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
>> > > Take something adapted?
>> >
>> > In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
>> >
>> > "We will not hide problems
>> >
>> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
>> > view at all times. Reports that people file online will
>> > promptly become visible to others."
>> >
>> > so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
>> > and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
>> >
>> > -Joan
>> >
>> > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
>> > [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> http://www.couchdb-buch.de
> http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@nms.de>.
Hey Joan,
yeah good point. In one of your first emails, you stated below your quote
for the text ("> We will keep our entire bug report database open for
public ...")
"so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest."
Question: isn't the bug handling better placed in the bylaws? I understand
the CoC more in regarding "personal behaviour" instead of "technical
behaviour". Or am I on the wrong path?
Cheers
Andy
On 30 April 2014 07:24, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> And the good news is that we have a mechanism for that already! :)
>
> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/latest/cve/index.html
>
> We encourage people to bring security issues to us via this framework.
> All issues raised are addressed promptly and disclosed as soon as feasible.
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruno Rohée" <br...@rohee.org>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:42:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
>
> Joan Touzet wtrote:
>
> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public view at all
> times. Reports that people file online will promptly become visible to
> others.
>
> My two cents : there are good, practical reasons to keep some bugs
> confidential before a fix/workaround is available. Namely security bugs.
> It's definitely bad when bugs are kept hidden for months or even years, but
> surely there is some middle ground to be found. This is especially
> important as it's reasonable to have an Internet facing CouchDB, unlike
> many other DBs...
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
>
> > Benoit said:
> > > This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
> > > Take something adapted?
> >
> > In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
> >
> > "We will not hide problems
> >
> > We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
> > view at all times. Reports that people file online will
> > promptly become visible to others."
> >
> > so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> > and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
> > [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> >
>
--
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!
http://www.couchdb-buch.de
http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de
GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.
And the good news is that we have a mechanism for that already! :)
http://docs.couchdb.org/en/latest/cve/index.html
We encourage people to bring security issues to us via this framework.
All issues raised are addressed promptly and disclosed as soon as feasible.
-Joan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruno Rohée" <br...@rohee.org>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:42:29 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Joan Touzet wtrote:
> We will keep our entire bug report database open for public view at all
times. Reports that people file online will promptly become visible to
others.
My two cents : there are good, practical reasons to keep some bugs
confidential before a fix/workaround is available. Namely security bugs.
It's definitely bad when bugs are kept hidden for months or even years, but
surely there is some middle ground to be found. This is especially
important as it's reasonable to have an Internet facing CouchDB, unlike
many other DBs...
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
> Benoit said:
> > This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
> > Take something adapted?
>
> In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
>
> "We will not hide problems
>
> We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
> view at all times. Reports that people file online will
> promptly become visible to others."
>
> so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
>
> -Joan
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
> [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Bruno Rohée <br...@rohee.org>.
Joan Touzet wtrote:
> We will keep our entire bug report database open for public view at all
times. Reports that people file online will promptly become visible to
others.
My two cents : there are good, practical reasons to keep some bugs
confidential before a fix/workaround is available. Namely security bugs.
It's definitely bad when bugs are kept hidden for months or even years, but
surely there is some middle ground to be found. This is especially
important as it's reasonable to have an Internet facing CouchDB, unlike
many other DBs...
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net> wrote:
> Benoit said:
> > This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
> > Take something adapted?
>
> In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
>
> "We will not hide problems
>
> We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
> view at all times. Reports that people file online will
> promptly become visible to others."
>
> so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
> and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
>
> -Joan
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
> [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Joan Touzet <jo...@atypical.net>.
Benoit said:
> This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
> Take something adapted?
In the context of this CoC it only refers to:
"We will not hide problems
We will keep our entire bug report database open for public
view at all times. Reports that people file online will
promptly become visible to others."
so we can probably make this explicit, then point to the ASF Bylaws[1]
and ASF "How it works"[2] for the rest.
-Joan
[1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
[2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> All,
>
> The PMC would like to move forward towards establishing an Apache CouchDB
> Developer Code of Conduct (CoC for short). To make that happen, we need
> your help.
>
> We do not at this time have a specific text proposal. We'd like to open
> that up to contributions from the developer community. Examples of CoCs
> from other projects that you feel are well-crafted would be most welcome.
>
> For my contribution: the long-standing Debian project has just voted in
> their Code of Conduct. I encourage you to review the text of this CoC at
> http://www.debian.org/vote/2014/vote_002 as I think it might be a good
> starting place for our efforts. Many of the points (such as having
> discussion on development direction should be made in public) are directly
> parallel to tenants upheld by the ASF and CouchDB itself.
>
> -Joan
>
>
This one looks really good. What's your plan about the social contract?
Take something adapted?
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct
Posted by Dave Cottlehuber <dc...@jsonified.com>.
On 28 April 2014 21:28, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> All,
>
> The PMC would like to move forward towards establishing an Apache CouchDB Developer Code of Conduct (CoC for short). To make that happen, we need your help.
>
> We do not at this time have a specific text proposal. We'd like to open that up to contributions from the developer community. Examples of CoCs from other projects that you feel are well-crafted would be most welcome.
Thanks Joan & others who have contributed already. I fully support
this initiative!
All of the CoC posted so far have value in them, I'm looking forwards
to the remix. After a few days, should we (I can) collate these
together?
3 suggestions:
- Address how we make progress & decisions
Consensus (not to be confused with unaniminity) needs to be supported,
in both the role of shepherding the discussion appropriately, as well
as in respectful contribution. I think we can do a much better job of
this, eg clarify how we ensure that dissension doesn't stop moving the
code forwards.
- Policy must be seen to be applied, and consistently.
An observation is that inappropriate behaviour needs to be seen to be
corrected, or at least recognised as such. As we are fundamentally an
online community, that can be painful to do (I recall mine), but I
believe it's necessary. That can be sufficient as a reminder (reply)
but doesn't need to be a disciplinary action.
If we simply avoid that behaviour then it is not easy for others to
see that we actually don't condone it. The real-world example is that
crime decreases in areas where police are consistently visible, even
in the absence of any additional/actual law enforcement activity. It's
not enough to remind behind the scenes when the line is demonstrably
crossed, it needs to be seen to be respected.
[I'm welcome to be persuaded otherwise BTW, if the consensus is opposite]
WRT to Noah's suggestion of having a response procedure that is
useful. I would imagine most cases will simply need a reminder of the
appropriate CoC section, and optionally a timeouts or cool-off period
- especially related to escalating discussions that are not
approaching resolution. I'm thinking hours/days here rather than
weeks/months/years BTW -- I could do with being reminded of that
sometimes.
My favourite examples so far are the django (per DJC's comments) and
debian-2014 one (general sage advice).
A+
Dave