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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> on 2005/07/15 16:26:45 UTC
JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Hi
I have started the JCR integration into 1.4-dev by using the JCR block
within the Cocoon BRANCH_2_1_X, whereas I applied some patches within Cocoon
re configuration of JCR.
The file src/webapp/samples/repository.xml is just temporarily until I will
be finished with patching the cocoon.xconf from within Lenya.
Beside that it seems to work very fine and the integration should be
progressing
nicely.
Thanks
Michi
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> I think we found consensus about that long time ago, but I am happy
>> to discuss it again.
>
>
> you seem to have been asleep when we discussed the feature set for 1.4..
I don't think so.
Michi
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> I think we found consensus about that long time ago, but I am happy
> to discuss it again.
you seem to have been asleep when we discussed the feature set for 1.4..
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Doug Chestnut wrote:
>>
>> I'd prefer to use a polymorphic approach, which means we can
>> switch between the JCR-based and Source-based Lenya repository.
>
>
> +1, this would be a great way of adding JCR to the trunk without
> affecting stability. If you want to use JCR, then you have to follow
> these steps to turn it on.
fine with me
Michi
>
>
>
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>
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Michael Wechner
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
>>>> Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya
>>>> core.
>>>> There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
>>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>> +1
+1 (no thanks to misguided 'flexibility')
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>>
>> -1 whereas it makes sense to use it as default. I don't think we should
>> enforce that everything is handled by JCR
>
>
> Maybe you misunderstood me - I didn't mean to use JCR as the
> single storage mechanism.
>
> I was talking about a single repository service for Lenya, which
> should IMO be an API that is independent from JCR to allow a
> smooth JCR integration and maybe to add functionality that is not
> covered by JCR (e.g., Lenya-specific query shortcuts).
but that would mean we should basically mirror the API within Lenya
and hence allow extensions, because I don't think it makes sense to reinvent
the API. (IIRC Cocoon did something similar with the servlet API).
Michi
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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>
--
Michael Wechner
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>>> My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog
>>>>> publication first
>>>>> and then expand from there.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I disagree to the "per publication" approach.
>>>>
>>>> Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya
>>>> core.
>>>> There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
> -1 whereas it makes sense to use it as default. I don't think we should
> enforce that everything is handled by JCR
Maybe you misunderstood me - I didn't mean to use JCR as the
single storage mechanism.
I was talking about a single repository service for Lenya, which
should IMO be an API that is independent from JCR to allow a
smooth JCR integration and maybe to add functionality that is not
covered by JCR (e.g., Lenya-specific query shortcuts).
-- Andreas
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Jann Forrer wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Jul 2005, Doug Chestnut wrote:
>
>[ ... ]
>
>
>>>I agree. Personally, I'd rather focus on these issues first.
>>>I admit that I'm keen on integrating JCR, but getting 1.4 stable
>>>has a higher priority. If both is possible, the better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Agreed, Lets get 1.4 to the point where it can be used in production.
>>
>>
>>
>
>+1
>Frankly said, i have no idea how much instablity the integrations of JCR
>will cause (or not)
>
I think it can be done very smoothly, because one just needs
to implement read/write parallel to existing interface
>but I agree with Andreas that "getting 1.4 stable has
>a higer priority".
>
>What about migrating existing publications from 1.2 to 1.4. Will the
>integration of JCR complicate or simplify it?
>
>
I think it would simplify it, because data and application are much
more nicely separated
>
>
>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>So far I just did preparations and now we are ready to actual
>>>>integrate it,
>>>>either within Lenya core or within specific publications, which we should
>>>>discuss first. My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog
>>>>publication first
>>>>and then expand from there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I disagree to the "per publication" approach.
>>>
>>>Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya core.
>>>There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
>>>
>>>
>>+1
>>
>>
>+1
>
>
-1 whereas it makes sense to use it as default. I don't think we should
enforce that everything is handled by JCR
Michi
>[ ... ]
>
>Jann
>
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>
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.unizh.ch>.
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005, Doug Chestnut wrote:
[ ... ]
> >
> > I agree. Personally, I'd rather focus on these issues first.
> > I admit that I'm keen on integrating JCR, but getting 1.4 stable
> > has a higher priority. If both is possible, the better.
> >
>
> Agreed, Lets get 1.4 to the point where it can be used in production.
>
+1
Frankly said, i have no idea how much instablity the integrations of JCR
will cause (or not) but I agree with Andreas that "getting 1.4 stable has
a higer priority".
What about migrating existing publications from 1.2 to 1.4. Will the
integration of JCR complicate or simplify it?
> > [...]
> >
> >> So far I just did preparations and now we are ready to actual
> >> integrate it,
> >> either within Lenya core or within specific publications, which we should
> >> discuss first. My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog
> >> publication first
> >> and then expand from there.
> >
> >
> > I disagree to the "per publication" approach.
> >
> > Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya core.
> > There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
>
> +1
+1
[ ... ]
Jann
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Doug Chestnut <ch...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have started the JCR integration into 1.4-dev by using the JCR block
>>>> within the Cocoon BRANCH_2_1_X, whereas I applied some patches
>>>> within Cocoon
>>>> re configuration of JCR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> i don't recall consensus for this.
>>
>>
>> I think we found consensus about that long time ago, but I am happy
>> to discuss it again.
>>
>>> it's funny that you complain about instability of 1.4 on the one hand,
>>
>>
>> yes, because a lot of things are unstable and could be prevented.
>
>
> I agree. Personally, I'd rather focus on these issues first.
> I admit that I'm keen on integrating JCR, but getting 1.4 stable
> has a higher priority. If both is possible, the better.
>
Agreed, Lets get 1.4 to the point where it can be used in production.
> [...]
>
>> So far I just did preparations and now we are ready to actual
>> integrate it,
>> either within Lenya core or within specific publications, which we should
>> discuss first. My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog
>> publication first
>> and then expand from there.
>
>
> I disagree to the "per publication" approach.
>
> Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya core.
> There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
+1
>
> I'd prefer to use a polymorphic approach, which means we can
> switch between the JCR-based and Source-based Lenya repository.
+1, this would be a great way of adding JCR to the trunk without
affecting stability. If you want to use JCR, then you have to follow
these steps to turn it on.
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
>>
>>> fine with me, but does such an interface within 1.4-dev already exist?
>>
>>
>>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/OverviewRepository
>>
>> The entry point is the RepositorySource, which uses a Node to
>> store data. Of course it's not very powerful, but it allows to
>> use another repo implementation by providing another NodeFactory.
>> This is not yet configurable (no need for this by now), but
>> that can be accomplished in a minute.
>
>
>
> well, it seems to me that we are mixing here two things:
>
> - The Lenya Pub/Publets API
> - The Lenya "actual" Repository API
Hmmm, why do you think so? Could you give an example?
> We should cleary separate these two things, whereas it makes sense that the
> Lenya Layer is on top of the repository API and people should access it
> through the Lenya API.
That sounds reasonable.
> Second the Lenya Repository API should mirror/extend the JCR API, because
> we shouldn't reinvent the wheel here.
If we mirror the whole API, we can as well use JCR as it is.
My idea was to do a smooth transition from the state that we have
now instead of introducing a new API.
Another possiblity would be to defer the integration to 1.6 and
start with a nice and clean JCR integration. I'd actually even prefer
this rather "academic" solution :)
-- Andreas
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
>> fine with me, but does such an interface within 1.4-dev already exist?
>
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/OverviewRepository
>
> The entry point is the RepositorySource, which uses a Node to
> store data. Of course it's not very powerful, but it allows to
> use another repo implementation by providing another NodeFactory.
> This is not yet configurable (no need for this by now), but
> that can be accomplished in a minute.
well, it seems to me that we are mixing here two things:
- The Lenya Pub/Publets API
- The Lenya "actual" Repository API
We should cleary separate these two things, whereas it makes sense that the
Lenya Layer is on top of the repository API and people should access it
through the Lenya API.
Second the Lenya Repository API should mirror/extend the JCR API, because
we shouldn't reinvent the wheel here.
Michi
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
>>> My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog publication first
>>> and then expand from there.
>>
>>
>>
>> I disagree to the "per publication" approach.
>
>
> the reason I am suggesting this is to help build trust into JCR
> and that it won't destabilize the core
I agree, therefore I suggested the polymorphic approach.
It should look like this:
+-------------+ +----------+
| default pub | | your pub |
+-------------+ +----------+
| |
v v
+-----------------------------+
| Lenya repository API |
+-----------------------------+
| |
v v
+-------------+ +----------+
| source repo | | JCR repo |
+-------------+ +----------+
instead of
+-------------+ +----------+
| default pub | | your pub |
+-------------+ +----------+
| |
v |
+----------------+ |
| Lenya repo API | |
+----------------+ |
| |
v v
+-------------+ +----------+
| source repo | | JCR repo |
+-------------+ +----------+
Advantages:
- improvement of the Lenya repo API
- no need to replicate functionality in your publication
- ability to switch between repo implementations
At some point in the future, it will probably make sense to
drop the source repo, because this allows us to leverage
the full power of JCR (which can't be replicated with
sources with reasonable efforts). But until then, I'd like
to do a smooth transition by using the common Lenya repo layer.
>> Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya
>> core.
>> There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
>
> I don't think so, but that's another topic
>
>>
>> I'd prefer to use a polymorphic approach, which means we can
>> switch between the JCR-based and Source-based Lenya repository.
>
>
>
> fine with me, but does such an interface within 1.4-dev already exist?
http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/OverviewRepository
The entry point is the RepositorySource, which uses a Node to
store data. Of course it's not very powerful, but it allows to
use another repo implementation by providing another NodeFactory.
This is not yet configurable (no need for this by now), but
that can be accomplished in a minute.
-- Andreas
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog publication first
>> and then expand from there.
>
>
> I disagree to the "per publication" approach.
the reason I am suggesting this is to help build trust into JCR
and that it won't destabilize the core
>
> Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya
> core.
> There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
I don't think so, but that's another topic
>
> I'd prefer to use a polymorphic approach, which means we can
> switch between the JCR-based and Source-based Lenya repository.
fine with me, but does such an interface within 1.4-dev already exist?
Michi
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
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>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>
>>> I have started the JCR integration into 1.4-dev by using the JCR block
>>> within the Cocoon BRANCH_2_1_X, whereas I applied some patches within
>>> Cocoon
>>> re configuration of JCR.
>>
>>
>>
>> i don't recall consensus for this.
>
> I think we found consensus about that long time ago, but I am happy
> to discuss it again.
>
>> it's funny that you complain about instability of 1.4 on the one hand,
>
> yes, because a lot of things are unstable and could be prevented.
I agree. Personally, I'd rather focus on these issues first.
I admit that I'm keen on integrating JCR, but getting 1.4 stable
has a higher priority. If both is possible, the better.
[...]
> So far I just did preparations and now we are ready to actual integrate it,
> either within Lenya core or within specific publications, which we should
> discuss first. My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog
> publication first
> and then expand from there.
I disagree to the "per publication" approach.
Storing resources should be a service which is provided by the Lenya core.
There should be exactly *1* way to do it.
I'd prefer to use a polymorphic approach, which means we can
switch between the JCR-based and Source-based Lenya repository.
-- Andreas
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> I have started the JCR integration into 1.4-dev by using the JCR block
>> within the Cocoon BRANCH_2_1_X, whereas I applied some patches within
>> Cocoon
>> re configuration of JCR.
>
>
> i don't recall consensus for this.
I think we found consensus about that long time ago, but I am happy
to discuss it again.
> it's funny that you complain about instability of 1.4 on the one hand,
yes, because a lot of things are unstable and could be prevented.
> and add completely new features on the other.
so far I haven't added "anything", except a repository configuration and
enabled a few blogs which are necessary for the repository integration.
So far I just did preparations and now we are ready to actual integrate it,
either within Lenya core or within specific publications, which we should
discuss first. My suggestion is to integrate it within the blog
publication first
and then expand from there.
Let's not mix various issues/feelings, but rather dicuss things on an
objectice
basis.
Michi
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> I have started the JCR integration into 1.4-dev by using the JCR block
> within the Cocoon BRANCH_2_1_X, whereas I applied some patches within
> Cocoon
> re configuration of JCR.
i don't recall consensus for this. it's funny that you complain about
instability of 1.4 on the one hand, and add completely new features on
the other.
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
[...]
>> - publication templating
>> - usecase framework
>> - transactions
>
>
>
> you mean transactions for usecases?
>
> These features are great, but how does the "user" see the actual
> incentive ...?
No, the intention is that she doesn't see anything :)
But she will see that transactions are missing in 1.2 when
corrupt content occurs (just imagine someone changing a file
during the link rewriting task ...)
> Are these features thouroughly tested within production?
No.
> is September really realistic?
IMO yes.
>> Actually I doubt that we can get the JCR integration to a state
>> which is so stable that we can keep it in 1.6 without breaking
>> backwards compatibility.
>
> why? JSR-170 is final! It's just implementing the API
I didn't mean the JCR API but the Lenya repository API.
We learn from mistakes, requirements will change ... it's hard to keep
an API stable under these circumstances.
>> Even if we can hide it behind a Lenya
>> specific repo API, we probably have to do some modifications to
>> that one.
>
> why?
See above. I hope that I will be proved wrong :)
>> I'd suggest that we fix the remaining bugs in 1.4 (which is quite a
>> lot to do), get it out as soon as possible, close 1.2 and start a
>> 1.6 branch with JCR integration. If people don't consider it worth
>> upgrading to 1.4, they can wait for 1.6.
>
> we cannot close 1.2 until 1.4 is mature and running in production for
> various publications. When will be that the case? In a year? In two years?
Yes, good point ...
But if we don't stop adding features to 1.4, when will we get
out a next release at all?
>> But, well, maybe I change my mind when I actually work with JCR
>> and see if it's really that easy to integrate.
>
>
>
> Please don't get me wrong, but to be honest I think most people here have
> never really done anything with JCR, so how can one judge?
Lurking on the jackrabbit list suggests it's rather not a piece of cake ...
But again, I hope I'm wrong :)
-- Andreas
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Jann Forrer wrote:
> I think you should have a kind of alpha release in order to ask people
> (not devs) to start testing. But this has not much to do with JCR.
alpha 1 was released on june 12:
http://apache.org/dist/lenya/SOURCES/
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.unizh.ch>.
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Michael Wechner wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
> > Michael Wechner wrote:
> >
[ ... ]
> >
> >
> > - publication templating
> > - usecase framework
> > - transactions
>
>
> you mean transactions for usecases?
>
> These features are great, but how does the "user" see the actual
> incentive ...?
> Are these features thouroughly tested within production?
>
I think you should have a kind of alpha release in order to ask people
(not devs) to start testing. But this has not much to do with JCR.
[ ... ]
>
> we cannot close 1.2 until 1.4 is mature and running in production for
> various publications. When will be that the case? In a year? In two years?
>
Among other things, this depends on the people who test a release (see
above). But this has not much to do with JCR integration, or has it? I
assume that JCR integration will even prolong it? But as is said in
another mail it have not looked into JCR integration yet.
> >
> >
> > But, well, maybe I change my mind when I actually work with JCR
> > and see if it's really that easy to integrate.
>
>
> Please don't get me wrong, but to be honest I think most people here have
> never really done anything with JCR, so how can one judge?
>
What do you think is the span of time to carefully integrat it in 1.4?
Jann
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think it will add to stability, because having JCR integrated is
>>>> a major
>>>> feature and an incentive for people to use Lenya and therefore
>>>> leading to
>>>> maturity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> just ask yourself why should anyone use 1.4 ...
>
>
> - publication templating
> - usecase framework
> - transactions
you mean transactions for usecases?
These features are great, but how does the "user" see the actual
incentive ...?
Are these features thouroughly tested within production?
>
>
>> and do people want again
>> having to migrate their data and functionality to another content API
>> for a
>> future version (e.g. 1.6).
>
>
> That's an interesting issue. 1.4 is scheduled for September 2005.
is September really realistic?
> Actually I doubt that we can get the JCR integration to a state
> which is so stable that we can keep it in 1.6 without breaking
> backwards compatibility.
why? JSR-170 is final! It's just implementing the API
> Even if we can hide it behind a Lenya
> specific repo API, we probably have to do some modifications to
> that one.
why?
>
> I'd suggest that we fix the remaining bugs in 1.4 (which is quite a
> lot to do), get it out as soon as possible, close 1.2 and start a
> 1.6 branch with JCR integration. If people don't consider it worth
> upgrading to 1.4, they can wait for 1.6.
we cannot close 1.2 until 1.4 is mature and running in production for
various publications. When will be that the case? In a year? In two years?
>
>
> But, well, maybe I change my mind when I actually work with JCR
> and see if it's really that easy to integrate.
Please don't get me wrong, but to be honest I think most people here have
never really done anything with JCR, so how can one judge?
Michi
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> I'd suggest that we fix the remaining bugs in 1.4 (which is quite a
> lot to do), get it out as soon as possible, close 1.2 and start a
> 1.6 branch with JCR integration. If people don't consider it worth
> upgrading to 1.4, they can wait for 1.6.
+1
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> who says it's ready within September? What will be ready by then?
>
>
> check the archives.. *sigh*
you mean what will be ready by September? Or that someone promises to
get things
done by then?
>
>>> I prefer stability to JCR integration.
>>
>>
>> JCR integration makes it more stable, because the Content Repository
>> API will
>> be unified.
>
>
> the code in sandbox/ speaks a different language. i for one, don't see
> a point in hacking in JCR support the way it is done there. why bother
> if it's not done right?
have you ever tried? What is wrong with the sandbox experiments?
>
>
> i think we need to vote on 1.4 again to not lose any more time with
> things we have already discussed a year ago.
We wanted to integrate a repo layer and finally got started by the
beginning of this
year.
> (where were you then?)
I was here on this mailing list.
Michi
>
>
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>
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> who says it's ready within September? What will be ready by then?
check the archives.. *sigh*
>> I prefer stability to JCR integration.
>
> JCR integration makes it more stable, because the Content Repository API
> will
> be unified.
the code in sandbox/ speaks a different language. i for one, don't see a
point in hacking in JCR support the way it is done there. why bother if
it's not done right?
i think we need to vote on 1.4 again to not lose any more time with
things we have already discussed a year ago. (where were you then?)
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
J. Wolfgang Kaltz wrote:
> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>
>> (...)
>> JCR integration makes it more stable, because the Content Repository
>> API will
>> be unified.
>
>
> It seems to me we are currently discussing 2 completely separate
> approaches regarding JCR integration, so maybe that's why there are some
> misunderstandings ?
>
> Approach 1, top-down,
> that is, change Lenya core to abstract it from using directories and
> files, so that other "backends" can be used (JCR, Database, etc.). This
> is the work we have been doing so far in 1.4, but it's true that it's
> not finished. Andreas has introduced a "lightweight repository",
Actually the main purpose of this was to create an abstraction for
content handling and therefore a single point to apply repository
related changes. This should lower the barrier of JCR integration.
Like I already said, IMO approach 1 is the way to go.
[...]
> AFAICT the design issues that must be resolved for JCR integration in
> Lenya are
> 1. how is the sitetree handled ? Stored and retrieved as a single node
> in JCR, or constructed dynamically by reading all content nodes ?
I'd start with the single node approach (which wouldn't require any
changes, because the sitetree is just stored in a lenya:// source).
In a next step, the TreeSiteManager could store the tree nodes
in single sources, which would allow to use meta data for node properties
and probably improve performance by using repository queries instead of DOM
traversal.
> 2. we need to decide which types of "lenya://..." requests are
> potentially to be handled by a JCR, and which are not:
> -> clearly this concerns all content items: so probably, any request
> "lenya://lenya/pubs/*/content/*" may be delegated to JCR
+1
> -> but maybe also other things, such as XSLs, CSSs, ... we probably
> should start with sitetree+content first and worry about these later
Yes
> 3. we need to decide how to configure the decision: what is retrieved
> from file, what from JCR, what from etc.:
That would require another layer which maps URIs to repositories.
In a first step I wouldn't allow this configuration - all lenya://
requests go into the Lenya repo which is either based on sources
or JCR (depending on the NodeFactory).
> -> at publication level ? (i.e. the entire publication content either
> comes from file, OR from JCR, OR from ...)
> -> at content item level ? (i.e. each document/asset knows - maybe via
> its metadata where it comes from)
>
> For implementation IMO the next steps are
> 1. make sure all content access goes via "lenya://" and no longer uses
> java.io.File directly;
Yes
> 2. implement a configuration mechanism for the decision "which content
> item / which source" (see above)
IMO that should be defered, but we can already discuss it
> 3. change the implementation of the "lenya://" protocol to decide that
> certains requests no longer access a java.io.File but instead a JCR
> repository
Same as 2.
> Regarding the stability of Lenya, quite frankly, I think the bottom-up
> approach is more dangerous. The top-down approach consists of
> abstracting Lenya content access, but obviously current implementation
> via java.io.File
Actually it's context:// sources from the Lenya point of view.
> will still work.
I agree.
> IMO if we follow the top-down approach, we will have painless,
> configurable JCR integration, and I see no reason it should not be a
> part of the 1.4.X series. In my view JCR integration will not be a
> fundamental redesign, but a configuration option at the Lenya repository
> abstraction level. And this level already exists in the current 1.4
> source !
At least as a first step. I already mentioned in a previous mail that
we will leave the source (file) repo implementation behind as soon as
we want to leverage JCR features that can't be easily implemented
using sources. But even then the additional layer won't hurt, even
if JCR is the only implementation.
> Bottom line, JCR CAN be available as part of Lenya 1.4.X (but probably
> not 1.4.0), and WILL be available as soon as someone implements it,
> because she needs it and/or wants it.
I agree.
-- Andreas
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "J. Wolfgang Kaltz" <ka...@interactivesystems.info>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
> (...)
> JCR integration makes it more stable, because the Content Repository API
> will
> be unified.
It seems to me we are currently discussing 2 completely separate
approaches regarding JCR integration, so maybe that's why there are some
misunderstandings ?
Approach 1, top-down,
that is, change Lenya core to abstract it from using directories and
files, so that other "backends" can be used (JCR, Database, etc.). This
is the work we have been doing so far in 1.4, but it's true that it's
not finished. Andreas has introduced a "lightweight repository", whose
documentation was started (but not yet completed) in
http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/OverviewRepository. The basic idea is that
content access goes via the "lenya://" protocol; the implementation of
that protocol can then decide where to get the stuff from. I changed
document creation code to use this protocol instead of java.io.File, and
disentangled the metadata handling from the files to also use this
protocol. Unfortunately I currently don't have time to see what the
status of reading content and of constructing the site tree is,
regarding this "lenya://" protocol.
Approach 2, bottom-up,
that is, take Jackrabbit and change Lenya to use this layer instead of
what it is doing now. AFAIK this is what Michi is proposing ?
* I don't think all devs realize that 1.4 already handles content access
quite differently from 1.2. ! *
So I am indeed wondering how the bottom-up approach would actually be
implemented.
AFAICT the design issues that must be resolved for JCR integration in
Lenya are
1. how is the sitetree handled ? Stored and retrieved as a single node
in JCR, or constructed dynamically by reading all content nodes ?
2. we need to decide which types of "lenya://..." requests are
potentially to be handled by a JCR, and which are not:
-> clearly this concerns all content items: so probably, any request
"lenya://lenya/pubs/*/content/*" may be delegated to JCR
-> but maybe also other things, such as XSLs, CSSs, ... we probably
should start with sitetree+content first and worry about these later
3. we need to decide how to configure the decision: what is retrieved
from file, what from JCR, what from etc.:
-> at publication level ? (i.e. the entire publication content either
comes from file, OR from JCR, OR from ...)
-> at content item level ? (i.e. each document/asset knows - maybe
via its metadata where it comes from)
For implementation IMO the next steps are
1. make sure all content access goes via "lenya://" and no longer uses
java.io.File directly;
2. implement a configuration mechanism for the decision "which content
item / which source" (see above)
3. change the implementation of the "lenya://" protocol to decide that
certains requests no longer access a java.io.File but instead a JCR
repository
Regarding the stability of Lenya, quite frankly, I think the bottom-up
approach is more dangerous. The top-down approach consists of
abstracting Lenya content access, but obviously current implementation
via java.io.File will still work.
IMO if we follow the top-down approach, we will have painless,
configurable JCR integration, and I see no reason it should not be a
part of the 1.4.X series. In my view JCR integration will not be a
fundamental redesign, but a configuration option at the Lenya repository
abstraction level. And this level already exists in the current 1.4 source !
Bottom line, JCR CAN be available as part of Lenya 1.4.X (but probably
not 1.4.0), and WILL be available as soon as someone implements it,
because she needs it and/or wants it.
--
Wolfgang
Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Michael Trindler wrote:
> From: "Andreas Hartmann" <an...@apache.org>
>
>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>
>>> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think it will add to stability, because having JCR integrated is
>>>>> a major
>>>>> feature and an incentive for people to use Lenya and therefore
>>>>> leading to
>>>>> maturity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> just ask yourself why should anyone use 1.4 ...
>>
>>
>> - publication templating
>> - usecase framework
>> - transactions
>>
>
>
> Dear Developers
>
> I could imagine that we're upgrading to Lenya 1.4 at the beginning of
> the next year. (We first need to finish another project.) The reasons
> for this are the ones that Andreas mentioned. I also expect Lenya 1.4
> to be (in the end) more stable because of it's more general architecture.
give 1.4 a try and try to migrate one of your publications ...
>
> Since we're running the websites of about 50 units at our University,
> Lenya 1.4 really needs to be stable for that we can upgrade. Having
> Lenya 1.4 already in September gives us time to test it, and to adjust
> our publication type to it.
who says it's ready within September? What will be ready by then?
>
> I prefer stability to JCR integration.
JCR integration makes it more stable, because the Content Repository API
will
be unified.
Michi
> And if the upgrade to 1.4 without JCR integration becomes easier - the
> better!
>
> +1 to Andreas proposal how to proceed
>
>
> -michael
>
>>
>>> and do people want again
>>> having to migrate their data and functionality to another content
>>> API for a
>>> future version (e.g. 1.6).
>>
>>
>> That's an interesting issue. 1.4 is scheduled for September 2005.
>> Actually I doubt that we can get the JCR integration to a state
>> which is so stable that we can keep it in 1.6 without breaking
>> backwards compatibility. Even if we can hide it behind a Lenya
>> specific repo API, we probably have to do some modifications to
>> that one.
>>
>> I'd suggest that we fix the remaining bugs in 1.4 (which is quite a
>> lot to do), get it out as soon as possible, close 1.2 and start a
>> 1.6 branch with JCR integration. If people don't consider it worth
>> upgrading to 1.4, they can wait for 1.6.
>>
>> But, well, maybe I change my mind when I actually work with JCR
>> and see if it's really that easy to integrate.
>>
>> -- Andreas
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lenya.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Trindler <mi...@id.unizh.ch>.
From: "Andreas Hartmann" <an...@apache.org>
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think it will add to stability, because having JCR integrated is a
>>>> major
>>>> feature and an incentive for people to use Lenya and therefore leading
>>>> to
>>>> maturity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> just ask yourself why should anyone use 1.4 ...
>
> - publication templating
> - usecase framework
> - transactions
>
Dear Developers
I could imagine that we're upgrading to Lenya 1.4 at the beginning of the
next year. (We first need to finish another project.) The reasons for this
are the ones that Andreas mentioned. I also expect Lenya 1.4 to be (in the
end) more stable because of it's more general architecture.
Since we're running the websites of about 50 units at our University, Lenya
1.4 really needs to be stable for that we can upgrade. Having Lenya 1.4
already in September gives us time to test it, and to adjust our publication
type to it.
I prefer stability to JCR integration. And if the upgrade to 1.4 without JCR
integration becomes easier - the better!
+1 to Andreas proposal how to proceed
-michael
>
>> and do people want again
>> having to migrate their data and functionality to another content API for
>> a
>> future version (e.g. 1.6).
>
> That's an interesting issue. 1.4 is scheduled for September 2005.
> Actually I doubt that we can get the JCR integration to a state
> which is so stable that we can keep it in 1.6 without breaking
> backwards compatibility. Even if we can hide it behind a Lenya
> specific repo API, we probably have to do some modifications to
> that one.
>
> I'd suggest that we fix the remaining bugs in 1.4 (which is quite a
> lot to do), get it out as soon as possible, close 1.2 and start a
> 1.6 branch with JCR integration. If people don't consider it worth
> upgrading to 1.4, they can wait for 1.6.
>
> But, well, maybe I change my mind when I actually work with JCR
> and see if it's really that easy to integrate.
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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>
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>
>>> I think it will add to stability, because having JCR integrated is a
>>> major
>>> feature and an incentive for people to use Lenya and therefore
>>> leading to
>>> maturity.
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>
>
>
> just ask yourself why should anyone use 1.4 ...
- publication templating
- usecase framework
- transactions
> and do people want again
> having to migrate their data and functionality to another content API for a
> future version (e.g. 1.6).
That's an interesting issue. 1.4 is scheduled for September 2005.
Actually I doubt that we can get the JCR integration to a state
which is so stable that we can keep it in 1.6 without breaking
backwards compatibility. Even if we can hide it behind a Lenya
specific repo API, we probably have to do some modifications to
that one.
I'd suggest that we fix the remaining bugs in 1.4 (which is quite a
lot to do), get it out as soon as possible, close 1.2 and start a
1.6 branch with JCR integration. If people don't consider it worth
upgrading to 1.4, they can wait for 1.6.
But, well, maybe I change my mind when I actually work with JCR
and see if it's really that easy to integrate.
-- Andreas
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> I think it will add to stability, because having JCR integrated is a
>> major
>> feature and an incentive for people to use Lenya and therefore
>> leading to
>> maturity.
>
>
> ?
just ask yourself why should anyone use 1.4 ... and do people want again
having to migrate their data and functionality to another content API for a
future version (e.g. 1.6).
I affirm that anyone who is actually using Lenya in production doesn't want
to do this.
Michi
>
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>
--
Michael Wechner
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> I think it will add to stability, because having JCR integrated is a major
> feature and an incentive for people to use Lenya and therefore leading to
> maturity.
?
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I have started the JCR integration into 1.4-dev by using the JCR block
>> within the Cocoon BRANCH_2_1_X, whereas I applied some patches within
>> Cocoon
>> re configuration of JCR.
>>
>> The file src/webapp/samples/repository.xml is just temporarily until
>> I will
>> be finished with patching the cocoon.xconf from within Lenya.
>>
>> Beside that it seems to work very fine and the integration should be
>> progressing
>> nicely.
>
>
> <quote src="michi">
> But it's very important that the dev community actually agrees on
> stabilizing it and I am not sure if are all aligned on this.
> </quote>
>
> Let's hope this will add to the stability, and not the contrary ...
I think it will add to stability, because having JCR integrated is a major
feature and an incentive for people to use Lenya and therefore leading to
maturity.
Michi
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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>
>
--
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Re: JCR integration into 1.4-dev started
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have started the JCR integration into 1.4-dev by using the JCR block
> within the Cocoon BRANCH_2_1_X, whereas I applied some patches within
> Cocoon
> re configuration of JCR.
>
> The file src/webapp/samples/repository.xml is just temporarily until I will
> be finished with patching the cocoon.xconf from within Lenya.
>
> Beside that it seems to work very fine and the integration should be
> progressing
> nicely.
<quote src="michi">
But it's very important that the dev community actually agrees on
stabilizing it and I am not sure if are all aligned on this.
</quote>
Let's hope this will add to the stability, and not the contrary ...
-- Andreas
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