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Posted to dev@karaf.apache.org by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> on 2012/01/02 18:17:07 UTC
Size of karaf distributions
The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
It's now roughly 10 Mb.
Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
Can't we remove more things from the minimal distribution ?
Things like management, diagnostics, kar support, etc...
If minimal isn't ... minimal, we should get rid of it.
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 19:16, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>
> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>
> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
> size to become 'minimal'.
>
> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>
> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>
> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>
> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>
> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>
> Cheesr,
> Jamie
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
>> Hi Guillaume,
>>
>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>
>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>
>> Thanks !!
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>>
>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>
>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com>.
I am really interesting in your proposed 'service api for getting
available versions of an artifact'
I already submitted a patch at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-688
-D
Sorry for hijacking this thead, we open another one for more discussion
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Christian Schneider
<ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what I
> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could replace
> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to provide
> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This would
> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>
> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we get
> rid of it again?
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>
>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>
>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>
>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>
>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>
>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>
>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>
>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>
>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>
>> Cheesr,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>
>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>
>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>
>>> Thanks !!
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Toni Menzel <to...@okidokiteam.com>.
hmmm.. i was under the impression Karaf was using pax url for resolving
runtime dependencies in maven repositories for a long time already ? Its
just since 3.x that it uses pax-url-aether instead of pax-url-mvn. As a Pax
URL maintainer i can say: pax-url-mvn is deprecated. - there are chances
(still to be discussed) that pax-url-aether will become pax-url-mvn .
The only real drawback i see is: size. However, i haven't looked at Aether
in recent month(s), so it may be smaller already (mostly due to its extra
microkernel plexus).
Toni
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Christian Schneider <chris@die-schneider.net
> wrote:
> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what I
> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could replace
> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to provide
> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This would
> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>
> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we get
> rid of it again?
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>
> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>
>> org.apache.karaf.region.**commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-**3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.**services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.**0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>
>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>
>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>
>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.**0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-**1106.jar
>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>
>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>
>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.**core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-**SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.**0.2.jar
>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.**console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.**asm-3.3_2.jar
>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>
>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>
>> Cheesr,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>
>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>
>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>
>>> Thanks !!
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>
>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>
>
--
Toni Menzel Source <http://tonimenzel.com>
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
Yes, that's how I see things too.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 23:08, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When I was working on the minimal distribution, the original plan was to
> install only the things that were required for the feature service to run.
> All others could be installed later on.
> If I remember correctly management, ssh etc were not supposed to be part of
> the minimal distribution.
>
> --
> *Ioannis Canellos*
> *
> FuseSource <http://fusesource.com>
>
> **
> Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
> **
> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
> Apache Camel <http://camel.apache.org/> Committer
> Apache ServiceMix <http://servicemix.apache.org/> Committer
> Apache Gora <http://incubator.apache.org/gora/> Committer
> Apache DirectMemory <http://incubator.apache.org/directmemory/> Committer
> *
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>.
When I was working on the minimal distribution, the original plan was to
install only the things that were required for the feature service to run.
All others could be installed later on.
If I remember correctly management, ssh etc were not supposed to be part of
the minimal distribution.
--
*Ioannis Canellos*
*
FuseSource <http://fusesource.com>
**
Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
**
Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
Apache Camel <http://camel.apache.org/> Committer
Apache ServiceMix <http://servicemix.apache.org/> Committer
Apache Gora <http://incubator.apache.org/gora/> Committer
Apache DirectMemory <http://incubator.apache.org/directmemory/> Committer
*
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
To track progress on this issue I've created the following Jira:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1136
Cheers,
Jamie
2012/1/3 Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>:
> Well, there's one difference though. To install diagnostics, you need features.
> Management, ssh, kars and diagnostic are similar imho: it's nice to
> have, but isn't mandatory.
> If we can't get the minimal distribution to be somewhat different,
> we'd better get rid of it.
> But imho, it's a good thing to show how minimal can karaf be, so
> anything that can be installed later should be removed I think.
>
> 2012/1/3 Łukasz Dywicki <lu...@code-house.org>:
>> I don't think that removing diagnostic will be a good choice. It is only 61K and it may stay as core service, similary to features.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Lukasz
>> --
>> Code-House
>> http://code-house.org
>>
>>> Agreed, just the console and basic commands could be enough I suppose.
>>> I think removing the console would make things more difficult as users
>>> won't be able to install additional features easily.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 14:30, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sounds good Christian.
>>>>
>>>> Back to the larger theme, we appear to be making head way in reducing
>>>> the overall size of the distribution with the Aether issue reviewed
>>>> above, now to reducing convenience features in Karaf to make it
>>>> 'minimal'...
>>>>
>>>> The goal here would be to define the lowest possible set of features
>>>> to make Karaf useful, but very feature bare?
>>>>
>>>> In this case removing diagnostics, management, some deployer support,
>>>> and possibly even JAAS or instance admin could be considered. We could
>>>> go as far to reduce logging support as well. How bare bones a
>>>> distribution can we design while still being useful enough to not
>>>> cause heavy frustration (if everyone has to immediately add back a
>>>> particular feature then we should probably not remove it).
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christian Schneider
>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>> Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert from
>>>>> maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to use the
>>>>> same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether finishes the move
>>>>> to eclipse and offers bundles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
>>>>>> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
>>>>>> branch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
>>>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
>>>>>>> help to resolve this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just
>>>>>>> internally
>>>>>>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
>>>>>>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working
>>>>>>> till
>>>>>>> now so I did not yet commit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>>>>>>>> but not really aether.
>>>>>>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>>>>>>>> full aether api.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>>>>>>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>>>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>>>>>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>>>>>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> rid of it again?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>>>>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>>>>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>>>>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>>>>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>>>>>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>>>>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>>>>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheesr,
>>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by
>>>>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------
>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>> ------------------------
>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>> ------------------------
>>> Open Source SOA
>>> http://fusesource.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
Well, there's one difference though. To install diagnostics, you need features.
Management, ssh, kars and diagnostic are similar imho: it's nice to
have, but isn't mandatory.
If we can't get the minimal distribution to be somewhat different,
we'd better get rid of it.
But imho, it's a good thing to show how minimal can karaf be, so
anything that can be installed later should be removed I think.
2012/1/3 Łukasz Dywicki <lu...@code-house.org>:
> I don't think that removing diagnostic will be a good choice. It is only 61K and it may stay as core service, similary to features.
>
> Best regards,
> Lukasz
> --
> Code-House
> http://code-house.org
>
>> Agreed, just the console and basic commands could be enough I suppose.
>> I think removing the console would make things more difficult as users
>> won't be able to install additional features easily.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 14:30, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sounds good Christian.
>>>
>>> Back to the larger theme, we appear to be making head way in reducing
>>> the overall size of the distribution with the Aether issue reviewed
>>> above, now to reducing convenience features in Karaf to make it
>>> 'minimal'...
>>>
>>> The goal here would be to define the lowest possible set of features
>>> to make Karaf useful, but very feature bare?
>>>
>>> In this case removing diagnostics, management, some deployer support,
>>> and possibly even JAAS or instance admin could be considered. We could
>>> go as far to reduce logging support as well. How bare bones a
>>> distribution can we design while still being useful enough to not
>>> cause heavy frustration (if everyone has to immediately add back a
>>> particular feature then we should probably not remove it).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christian Schneider
>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>> Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert from
>>>> maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to use the
>>>> same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether finishes the move
>>>> to eclipse and offers bundles.
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
>>>>> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
>>>>> branch.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
>>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
>>>>>> help to resolve this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just
>>>>>> internally
>>>>>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
>>>>>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working
>>>>>> till
>>>>>> now so I did not yet commit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>>>>>>> but not really aether.
>>>>>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>>>>>>> full aether api.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>>>>>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>>>>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>>>>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> rid of it again?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>>>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>>>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>>>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>>>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>>>>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>>>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>>>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>>>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>>>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>>>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>>>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>>>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheesr,
>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by
>>>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>
>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>> ------------------------
>> Open Source SOA
>> http://fusesource.com
>
>
>
>
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Łukasz Dywicki <lu...@code-house.org>.
I don't think that removing diagnostic will be a good choice. It is only 61K and it may stay as core service, similary to features.
Best regards,
Lukasz
--
Code-House
http://code-house.org
> Agreed, just the console and basic commands could be enough I suppose.
> I think removing the console would make things more difficult as users
> won't be able to install additional features easily.
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 14:30, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sounds good Christian.
>>
>> Back to the larger theme, we appear to be making head way in reducing
>> the overall size of the distribution with the Aether issue reviewed
>> above, now to reducing convenience features in Karaf to make it
>> 'minimal'...
>>
>> The goal here would be to define the lowest possible set of features
>> to make Karaf useful, but very feature bare?
>>
>> In this case removing diagnostics, management, some deployer support,
>> and possibly even JAAS or instance admin could be considered. We could
>> go as far to reduce logging support as well. How bare bones a
>> distribution can we design while still being useful enough to not
>> cause heavy frustration (if everyone has to immediately add back a
>> particular feature then we should probably not remove it).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christian Schneider
>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>> Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert from
>>> maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to use the
>>> same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether finishes the move
>>> to eclipse and offers bundles.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>
>>>> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
>>>> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
>>>> branch.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
>>>>> help to resolve this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just
>>>>> internally
>>>>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
>>>>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working
>>>>> till
>>>>> now so I did not yet commit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>>>>>> but not really aether.
>>>>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>>>>>> full aether api.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>>>>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>>>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>>>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> rid of it again?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>>>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheesr,
>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by
>>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christian Schneider
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>
>>> Open Source Architect
>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
Agreed, just the console and basic commands could be enough I suppose.
I think removing the console would make things more difficult as users
won't be able to install additional features easily.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 14:30, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds good Christian.
>
> Back to the larger theme, we appear to be making head way in reducing
> the overall size of the distribution with the Aether issue reviewed
> above, now to reducing convenience features in Karaf to make it
> 'minimal'...
>
> The goal here would be to define the lowest possible set of features
> to make Karaf useful, but very feature bare?
>
> In this case removing diagnostics, management, some deployer support,
> and possibly even JAAS or instance admin could be considered. We could
> go as far to reduce logging support as well. How bare bones a
> distribution can we design while still being useful enough to not
> cause heavy frustration (if everyone has to immediately add back a
> particular feature then we should probably not remove it).
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christian Schneider
> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>> Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert from
>> maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to use the
>> same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether finishes the move
>> to eclipse and offers bundles.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>
>>> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
>>> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
>>> branch.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
>>>> help to resolve this.
>>>>
>>>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just
>>>> internally
>>>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
>>>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working
>>>> till
>>>> now so I did not yet commit.
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>>>>> but not really aether.
>>>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>>>>> full aether api.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>>>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>>>>> commands.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>>>>> replace
>>>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> rid of it again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheesr,
>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by
>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>
>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christian Schneider
>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>
>> Open Source Architect
>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
Sounds good Christian.
Back to the larger theme, we appear to be making head way in reducing
the overall size of the distribution with the Aether issue reviewed
above, now to reducing convenience features in Karaf to make it
'minimal'...
The goal here would be to define the lowest possible set of features
to make Karaf useful, but very feature bare?
In this case removing diagnostics, management, some deployer support,
and possibly even JAAS or instance admin could be considered. We could
go as far to reduce logging support as well. How bare bones a
distribution can we design while still being useful enough to not
cause heavy frustration (if everyone has to immediately add back a
particular feature then we should probably not remove it).
Cheers,
Jamie
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christian Schneider
<ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert from
> maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to use the
> same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether finishes the move
> to eclipse and offers bundles.
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>
>> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
>> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
>> branch.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
>>> help to resolve this.
>>>
>>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just
>>> internally
>>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
>>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working
>>> till
>>> now so I did not yet commit.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>
>>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>>>> but not really aether.
>>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>>>> full aether api.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>>>> commands.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For
>>>>> what
>>>>> I
>>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>>>> replace
>>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>>>> provide
>>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>>>> would
>>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we
>>>>> get
>>>>> rid of it again?
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheesr,
>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by
>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christian Schneider
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>
>>> Open Source Architect
>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert
from maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to
use the same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether
finishes the move to eclipse and offers bundles.
Christian
Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
> branch.
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
>> help to resolve this.
>>
>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just internally
>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working till
>> now so I did not yet commit.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>
>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>>> but not really aether.
>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>>> full aether api.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>>> commands.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what
>>>> I
>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>>> replace
>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>>> provide
>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>>> would
>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>>
>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we get
>>>> rid of it again?
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>>
>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>>
>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>>
>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>
>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>>
>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>
>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheesr,
>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>
>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Christian Schneider
>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>
>> Open Source Architect
>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>
>
>
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
branch.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
<ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
> help to resolve this.
>
> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just internally
> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working till
> now so I did not yet commit.
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>
>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>> but not really aether.
>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>> full aether api.
>>
>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>> commands.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what
>>> I
>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>> replace
>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>> provide
>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>> would
>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>
>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we get
>>> rid of it again?
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>
>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>
>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>
>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>
>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>
>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>
>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>
>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>
>>>> Cheesr,
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> JB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Christian Schneider
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>
>>> Open Source Architect
>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
This may not be completed in time for Karaf 3.0, but the aether
project has an issue logged to review and reduce the size of their
bundle: http://team.ops4j.org/browse/PAXURL-85
Cheers,
Jamie
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Christian Schneider
<ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
> help to resolve this.
>
> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just internally
> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working till
> now so I did not yet commit.
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>
>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>> but not really aether.
>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>> full aether api.
>>
>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>> commands.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what
>>> I
>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>> replace
>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to
>>> provide
>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>> would
>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>
>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we get
>>> rid of it again?
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>
>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>
>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>>
>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>
>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>
>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>
>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>
>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>
>>>> Cheesr,
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> JB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Christian Schneider
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>
>>> Open Source Architect
>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and
will help to resolve this.
Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just
internally and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working
till now so I did not yet commit.
Christian
Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
> but not really aether.
> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
> full aether api.
>
> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
> commands.
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
> <ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what I
>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could replace
>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to provide
>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This would
>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>
>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we get
>> rid of it again?
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>
>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>
>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>>
>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>
>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>
>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>
>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>
>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>
>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>
>>> Cheesr,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>
>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>>
>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks !!
>>>> Regards
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Christian Schneider
>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>
>> Open Source Architect
>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>
>
>
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
but not really aether.
So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
full aether api.
Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
commands.
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
<ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what I
> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could replace
> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to provide
> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of
> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This would
> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>
> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we get
> rid of it again?
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>
>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>
>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>>
>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>
>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>
>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>
>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>
>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>
>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>
>> Cheesr,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>
>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>>
>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>
>>> Thanks !!
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For what
I do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
replace that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting
to provide services in pax based on the aether api like get available
versions of artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some
extensions. This would allow content assist for mvn urls.
So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we
get rid of it again?
Christian
Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>
> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>
> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
> size to become 'minimal'.
>
> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>
> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>
> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>
> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>
> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>
> Cheesr,
> Jamie
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
>> Hi Guillaume,
>>
>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>
>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>
>> Thanks !!
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>>
>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
Taking a closer look org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
embeds pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar.
If we could shrink pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar and mayhaps not embed the
jar as well inside of org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
then we could save 2.5M+ space on all distributions.
Cheers,
Jamie
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>
> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
>
> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
> size to become 'minimal'.
>
> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>
> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>
> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>
> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>
> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>
> Cheesr,
> Jamie
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
>> Hi Guillaume,
>>
>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>>
>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>
>> Thanks !!
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>>
>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>
>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos
and a few extra jars in the system folder.
org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K
org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K
org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K
org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K
mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K
sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K
When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in
size to become 'minimal'.
Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is
2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
Cheesr,
Jamie
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
> Hi Guillaume,
>
> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>
> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>
> Thanks !!
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>
>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Toni Menzel <to...@okidokiteam.com>.
Chances are that Pax URL including Sonatype Aether and required libraries
is part of the story. I will have a look, too.
This is just from the top of my head. Unverified.
Toni
On Jan 2, 2012 6:48 PM, "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
> Hi Guillaume,
>
> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
>
> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>
> Thanks !!
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>
>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>>
>>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
Re: Size of karaf distributions
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Guillaume,
I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why.
I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
Thanks !!
Regards
JB
On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x.
> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by default ?
> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ...
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com