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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> on 2004/02/10 15:24:04 UTC
Move to SVN?
With the last commit in the scratchpad, I have found myself again to
fight with CVS for committing files. And the thought of having to move
again all by hand when getting forrestdoc and forrestbot2 out of the
scratchpad, and when changing the dir layout again... gives me a bad
feeling.
How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been using it with
Depot and it's quite nice :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
<snip/>
>
> > The Apache infrastructure@ list says that there is a "test"
> > repository that we can use. We should try a cvs2svn there first.
>
> cvs2svn is not ready for prime time AFAIK, so if we go now we should
> IMHO just import HEAD.
I tried to see if there were any issues mentioned at
subversion.tigris.org ... i could not see any but that does
not mean anything. Discussion about it not being ready might
be an old furphy. Does anybody know?
So are you saying just do HEAD and leave the 0.5 "branch"
to be maintained with existing CVS? That sounds okay.
However, we still want to bring the "history" of HEAD
into SVN, i presume.
--David
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> <snip/>
>
>>How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been
>>using it with Depot and it's quite nice :-)
>
> Someone would need to provide some documentation to assist
> both committers and users. We have various FAQs and tips
> for using CVS as a user, and we have this for committers:
> http://xml.apache.org/forrest/community/howto/cvs-ssh/howto-cvs-ssh.html
> as well as various stuff at http://www.apache.org/dev/
> but there are no tips about SVN at Apache.
The svn commands are very very similar, if not identical, to the CVS
ones, so it should not be hard to accomodate the docs to them... apart
from the important fact that someone has to actually do it, of course ;-)
> The Apache infrastructure@ list says that there is a "test"
> repository that we can use. We should try a cvs2svn there first.
cvs2svn is not ready for prime time AFAIK, so if we go now we should
IMHO just import HEAD.
> Is there an equivalent to ViewCVS for browsing older versions?
Yes, it has been already adapted.
> The http://cvs.apache.org/ reports a quite old Subversion server.
> Surely it would be better to wait until release of 1.0 (which
> is due on 2004-02-23) and an Apache upgrade.
Cool, then we'll wait for that, I didn't know it was slated for so soon :-)
> I think that all committers would need to use a recent Subversion
> client. For example my RedHat has ancient subversion-0.17, so i am
> now upgrading it to be ready for our test.
:-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
<snip/>
>
> How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been
> using it with Depot and it's quite nice :-)
Someone would need to provide some documentation to assist
both committers and users. We have various FAQs and tips
for using CVS as a user, and we have this for committers:
http://xml.apache.org/forrest/community/howto/cvs-ssh/howto-cvs-ssh.html
as well as various stuff at http://www.apache.org/dev/
but there are no tips about SVN at Apache.
The Apache infrastructure@ list says that there is a "test"
repository that we can use. We should try a cvs2svn there first.
Is there an equivalent to ViewCVS for browsing older versions?
The http://cvs.apache.org/ reports a quite old Subversion server.
Surely it would be better to wait until release of 1.0 (which
is due on 2004-02-23) and an Apache upgrade.
I think that all committers would need to use a recent Subversion
client. For example my RedHat has ancient subversion-0.17, so i am
now upgrading it to be ready for our test.
--David
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Eirik Bjørsnøs wrote:
>On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
>
>>How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been using it with
>>Depot and it's quite nice :-)
>>
>>
>
>I recently tried to convert a CVS repository (four years of history) to
>SVN with the cvs2svn tool.
>
>It not go well. Commits were out of order, and strange things happened..
>cvs2svn does not support tags and branches very well, so it could be
>related to this.
>
>I guess I will keep the old repository for history, and just import my
>project files into a fresh Subversion repository. Or wait for cvs2svn to
>impove..
>
>
If you converted, it would be done for you by the infrastructure team,
who have been playing with SVN for some time. It would be their job to
get the history across fine, and I'd be pretty surprised if they hadn't
got that one under their belt already.
They would be very keen to help a project use Subversion instead of CVS.
Forrest wouldn't be the first to use Subversion - there are incubated
projects using it. Forrest might be the first CVS migration. Not sure.
Regards, Upayavira
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Eirik Bjørsnøs <bj...@stud.ntnu.no>.
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been using it with
> Depot and it's quite nice :-)
I recently tried to convert a CVS repository (four years of history) to
SVN with the cvs2svn tool.
It not go well. Commits were out of order, and strange things happened..
cvs2svn does not support tags and branches very well, so it could be
related to this.
I guess I will keep the old repository for history, and just import my
project files into a fresh Subversion repository. Or wait for cvs2svn to
impove..
Eirik.
--
Eirik Bjørsnøs
bjorsnos@stud.ntnu.no
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been using it with
> Depot and it's quite nice :-)
Well I've been wanting to try it out for quite some time. I've never
used it but I am certainly willing to try, I hear lots of good reports.
Ross
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> With the last commit in the scratchpad, I have found myself again to
> fight with CVS for committing files. And the thought of having to move
> again all by hand when getting forrestdoc and forrestbot2 out of the
> scratchpad, and when changing the dir layout again... gives me a bad
> feeling.
>
> How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been using it with
> Depot and it's quite nice :-)
>
+1 from me. I've used it some and like it. Would we be the first apache
project to use it? Is there infrastructure to support it?
--
Dave Brondsema
dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net - personal
http://www.splike.com - programming
http://csx.calvin.edu - Calvin club
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Dave Brondsema wrote:
> Quoting Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>:
>
>>Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>
>>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>It does, It seems that this will help our project in the long run, but
>>in the sort term we could hit some issues that would delay our project.
>>
>>I am not in a rust, so +1 for this move.
>
> So it seems we're mostly in favor of this. Can we ask infrastructure to set up
> a repository
+1
> so we can see how well history was preserved? And if it's too
> ugly, then instead of doing a transition, we can do an import of HEAD and leave
> prior history in CVS.
I prefer to simply do an import and keep the history in CVS. We have
already moved dirs some time ago and the history is already so confused
in some files that IMHO it's not worth to migrate.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
Quoting Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
>
> It does, It seems that this will help our project in the long run, but
> in the sort term we could hit some issues that would delay our project.
>
> I am not in a rust, so +1 for this move.
>
So it seems we're mostly in favor of this. Can we ask infrastructure to set up
a repository so we can see how well history was preserved? And if it's too
ugly, then instead of doing a transition, we can do an import of HEAD and leave
prior history in CVS.
--
Dave Brondsema
dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net - personal
http://www.splike.com - programming
http://csx.calvin.edu - student org
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
>> Can you resume the main advances of using SVN?
>
>
<snip snv features>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
It does, It seems that this will help our project in the long run, but
in the sort term we could hit some issues that would delay our project.
I am not in a rust, so +1 for this move.
Cheers,
Cheche
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>
>> How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been using it
>> with Depot and it's quite nice :-)
>>
>
> Can you resume the main advances of using SVN?
There are many, but one is enough to switch: you can move files around
without loosing history!
SVN versions the tree, not the individual files (that's why you see the
funny version number incrementing each time anybody does an action on
the repo).
Another big advantage is the use of WebDAV. Basically Subversion is a
WebDAV server (infact, an apache2 server module: mod_svn). If you turn
autoversioning on, you can even have your OpenOffice work *directly* on
the repository and have a new version checked in everytime you save (no
commit log, though). Some people already use it like that instead of
Samba as a file sharing platform for windows/linux environments.
Another advantage is that installation is much easier, that data is
stored in a BerkeleyDB file (therefore not easily forgeable), access
control is much more granular (you can have different areas of commit,
for example for code and documentation, but all sharing the same module)
and, last but not least, being all HTTP based, it can take full
advantage of any proxying/caching layer around it (especially since a
particular version of a versioned resource is forever immutable!! a
paradise for cache writers ;-)
The only severe drawback is, of course, its relative youth: CVS, shitty
architecturally as it is, it's a rock solid piece of software, everybody
uses it and all IDEs supporting.
Even if Subversion has been in the works for years now, you can't really
say the same and this won't happen until they finally reach 1.0 final
(but being the same people around HTTPd, this is not going to happen
until they think that it is rock solid as CVS)
Hope this helps.
--
Stefano.
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been using it with
> Depot and it's quite nice :-)
>
Can you resume the main advances of using SVN?
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> Bad to hear this but if there aren't better experiences I wouldn't
> migrate to SVN :-(
There are some nice SVN interfaces that folks love, I'm just not sure that
the Eclipse one is one of them. I think it depends how many of your folks
depend upon Eclipse integration.
regards
Adam
RE: Move to SVN?
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
From: Adam R. B. Jack
> > IIRC there is an Eclipse-plugin? Any experiences out there?
>
> I use it. I find it a bit clunky/ugly, but usable. I tried
> doing some Eclipse renames of stuff that I'd not yet checked
> in, and it got sick/confused. I had to come out of eclipse,
> edit the directory contents, and re-start eclipse. Still, it worked...
>
> I do miss the 'Synchronize w/ Repository' feature. :(
>
> I'm not sure it copes w/ httpS -- at least my version (a
> couple of months
> old) -- which is a bad thing!
Bad to hear this but if there aren't better experiences I wouldn't
migrate to SVN :-(
--
Reinhard
Re: Move to SVN?
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> IIRC there is an Eclipse-plugin? Any experiences out there?
I use it. I find it a bit clunky/ugly, but usable. I tried doing some
Eclipse renames of stuff that I'd not yet checked in, and it got
sick/confused. I had to come out of eclipse, edit the directory contents,
and re-start eclipse. Still, it worked...
I do miss the 'Synchronize w/ Repository' feature. :(
I'm not sure it copes w/ httpS -- at least my version (a couple of months
old) -- which is a bad thing!
regards
Adam
RE: Move to SVN?
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
From: Nicola Ken Barozzi
> With the last commit in the scratchpad, I have found myself again to
> fight with CVS for committing files. And the thought of
> having to move
> again all by hand when getting forrestdoc and forrestbot2 out of the
> scratchpad, and when changing the dir layout again... gives me a bad
> feeling.
>
> How do others feel about moving our CVS to SVN? I've been
> using it with
> Depot and it's quite nice :-)
IIRC there is an Eclipse-plugin? Any experiences out there?
--
Reinhard