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Posted to diversity@apache.org by Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> on 2019/05/17 13:20:18 UTC
[DISCUSS] committee resources
hey folks,
now the D&I committee is official, I think it's time we think about the
resources we want to commission
so far we have one mailing list:
- diversity@apache.org
we also have:
- https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=112820458
-
https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/DI/issues/DI-2?filter=allopenissues
at a minimum, I would like to suggest we create:
- diversity-private@apache.org (for use akin to how private@tlp.apache.org
lists are used)
I am also wondering if we want to create:
https://diversity.apache.org/ <https://community.apache.org/>
this could be a more formal, polished presence for us on the Apache site.
the first port of all for Apache committers/members, as well as outsiders.
(whereas the wiki would be more for our own use as a committee)
I'd also like to bring back the suggestion that we have a third list
exclusively for off-topic threads (my rubric for "off-topic" would be "is
this helping us get work done>"). people can do what they like on the other
list (within reason). bring up beginner questions, request education,
rehash old debates, whatever
diversity-discuss@apache.org might work for this. it fits in with our other
top-level foo-discuss@ mailing lists. and it's a value-neutral name
I want to stress my belief that if we don't have a dedicated mailing list
for "debates" and requests for education, and so on, there will be no way
of dealing with that stuff on diversity@ in a way that doesn't run the risk
of derailing productive threads and sapping contributor energy. I really
want to be able to say "this is off-topic for this list, please move it to
diversity-discuss@" (and that is something we can enforce if someone
decides to cause problems)
yes, trolls are likely to come straight to diversity@, but we can direct
them elsewhere (see above)
an alternative way of doing this would be to use diversity@ for general
discussion and create diversity-dev@ for the committee to actually get work
done. I don't think this solves the troll problem. they'll just join
diversity-dev@ instead. but we can do the same thing, and direct them to
diversity@
really, I think this comes down to the semantics of -discuss and -dev and
what we think is more suitable
in summary, I have three proposed actions:
- create diversity-private@
- create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
- create https://diversity.apache.org/ <https://community.apache.org/>
I am sending this email to see if we have consensus around one or more of
these proposals
after waiting a bit, I will assume lazy consensus for anything with no
raised objections and request the resource
thanks!
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Andrew Musselman <an...@gmail.com>.
Yeah makes sense.
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 2:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if we were
> shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations otherwise
>
> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what people
> are
> > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> >
> > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > >
> > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > >
> > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > >
> > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > >
> > > > private@diversity
> > > > dev@diversity
> > > >
> > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > >
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> > lists.
> > > >
> > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > >
> > > > +1 to this.
> > > >
> > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > >
> > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.INVALID>.
Thanks Naomi!
On Wed, May 22, 2019, 2:34 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> thanks for the input everyone. we have an INFRA ticket here:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18453
>
> I'll keep you updated
>
> On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 04:50, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Develop has been a word for far longer than computer science has. To some
> > people, developers are related to real estate.
> >
> > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 19:46, Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Naomi.
> > >
> > > I'd like to add
> > > http://blogs.apache.org/diversity
> > >
> > > To your request of resources.
> > > Sally pointed out that we need to have publishing and admin rights and
> we
> > > should have 2 people on it.
> > >
> > > I think by now we have enough consensus. Would you like to request
> these
> > > resources to Infra?
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 21, 2019, 4:01 PM William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As yet another strawperson... The form at legal is discuss@... the
> > form
> > > at
> > > > incubator is general@. That doesn't make incubator's list
> > "subordinate",
> > > > just simply conveys that software isn't dev'eloped on that list and
> the
> > > > focus is more, uhm, general.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if
> we
> > > were
> > > > > shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations
> > > otherwise
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <
> > > > andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what
> > > people
> > > > > are
> > > > > > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <
> > nomi@tumbolia.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > private@diversity
> > > > > > > > dev@diversity
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity,
> with
> > > > > > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will
> > be
> > > > > > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for
> > > other
> > > > > > lists.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > +1 to this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list,
> it
> > > is
> > > > > > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > --
> > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>.
Niall, if there's no prior use of this URL, I don't think we need to put in
a redirect
On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 02:17, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 10:34, Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> > thanks for the input everyone. we have an INFRA ticket here:
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18453
> >
> > I'll keep you updated
>
>
> You’ve requested a diversity.apache.org website - but would it be also
> useful to have a page or redirect for www.apache.org/diversity?
>
> Niall
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 04:50, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Develop has been a word for far longer than computer science has. To
> some
> > > people, developers are related to real estate.
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 19:46, Griselda Cuevas <gris@google.com.invalid
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Naomi.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to add
> > > > http://blogs.apache.org/diversity
> > > >
> > > > To your request of resources.
> > > > Sally pointed out that we need to have publishing and admin rights
> and
> > we
> > > > should have 2 people on it.
> > > >
> > > > I think by now we have enough consensus. Would you like to request
> > these
> > > > resources to Infra?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, May 21, 2019, 4:01 PM William A Rowe Jr <wrowe@rowe-clan.net
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > As yet another strawperson... The form at legal is discuss@... the
> > > form
> > > > at
> > > > > incubator is general@. That doesn't make incubator's list
> > > "subordinate",
> > > > > just simply conveys that software isn't dev'eloped on that list and
> > the
> > > > > focus is more, uhm, general.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if
> > we
> > > > were
> > > > > > shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations
> > > > otherwise
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <
> > > > > andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what
> > > > people
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <
> nomi@tumbolia.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <
> rubys@intertwingly.net
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <
> > > nomi@tumbolia.org>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > > > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > private@diversity
> > > > > > > > > dev@diversity
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity,
> > with
> > > > > > > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result
> will
> > > be
> > > > > > > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down
> for
> > > > other
> > > > > > > lists.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > +1 to this.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real
> list,
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 10:34, Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> thanks for the input everyone. we have an INFRA ticket here:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18453
>
> I'll keep you updated
You’ve requested a diversity.apache.org website - but would it be also
useful to have a page or redirect for www.apache.org/diversity?
Niall
>
> On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 04:50, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Develop has been a word for far longer than computer science has. To some
> > people, developers are related to real estate.
> >
> > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 19:46, Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Naomi.
> > >
> > > I'd like to add
> > > http://blogs.apache.org/diversity
> > >
> > > To your request of resources.
> > > Sally pointed out that we need to have publishing and admin rights and
> we
> > > should have 2 people on it.
> > >
> > > I think by now we have enough consensus. Would you like to request
> these
> > > resources to Infra?
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 21, 2019, 4:01 PM William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As yet another strawperson... The form at legal is discuss@... the
> > form
> > > at
> > > > incubator is general@. That doesn't make incubator's list
> > "subordinate",
> > > > just simply conveys that software isn't dev'eloped on that list and
> the
> > > > focus is more, uhm, general.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if
> we
> > > were
> > > > > shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations
> > > otherwise
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <
> > > > andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what
> > > people
> > > > > are
> > > > > > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <
> > nomi@tumbolia.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > private@diversity
> > > > > > > > dev@diversity
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity,
> with
> > > > > > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will
> > be
> > > > > > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for
> > > other
> > > > > > lists.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > +1 to this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list,
> it
> > > is
> > > > > > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > --
> > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>.
thanks for the input everyone. we have an INFRA ticket here:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18453
I'll keep you updated
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 04:50, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Develop has been a word for far longer than computer science has. To some
> people, developers are related to real estate.
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 19:46, Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Naomi.
> >
> > I'd like to add
> > http://blogs.apache.org/diversity
> >
> > To your request of resources.
> > Sally pointed out that we need to have publishing and admin rights and we
> > should have 2 people on it.
> >
> > I think by now we have enough consensus. Would you like to request these
> > resources to Infra?
> >
> > On Tue, May 21, 2019, 4:01 PM William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As yet another strawperson... The form at legal is discuss@... the
> form
> > at
> > > incubator is general@. That doesn't make incubator's list
> "subordinate",
> > > just simply conveys that software isn't dev'eloped on that list and the
> > > focus is more, uhm, general.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if we
> > were
> > > > shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations
> > otherwise
> > > >
> > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <
> > > andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what
> > people
> > > > are
> > > > > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <
> nomi@tumbolia.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > private@diversity
> > > > > > > dev@diversity
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > > > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will
> be
> > > > > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for
> > other
> > > > > lists.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +1 to this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it
> > is
> > > > > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --
> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Develop has been a word for far longer than computer science has. To some
people, developers are related to real estate.
On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 19:46, Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Naomi.
>
> I'd like to add
> http://blogs.apache.org/diversity
>
> To your request of resources.
> Sally pointed out that we need to have publishing and admin rights and we
> should have 2 people on it.
>
> I think by now we have enough consensus. Would you like to request these
> resources to Infra?
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2019, 4:01 PM William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>
> wrote:
>
> > As yet another strawperson... The form at legal is discuss@... the form
> at
> > incubator is general@. That doesn't make incubator's list "subordinate",
> > just simply conveys that software isn't dev'eloped on that list and the
> > focus is more, uhm, general.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if we
> were
> > > shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations
> otherwise
> > >
> > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <
> > andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what
> people
> > > are
> > > > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > private@diversity
> > > > > > dev@diversity
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > > > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for
> other
> > > > lists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +1 to this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it
> is
> > > > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.INVALID>.
Naomi.
I'd like to add
http://blogs.apache.org/diversity
To your request of resources.
Sally pointed out that we need to have publishing and admin rights and we
should have 2 people on it.
I think by now we have enough consensus. Would you like to request these
resources to Infra?
On Tue, May 21, 2019, 4:01 PM William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
> As yet another strawperson... The form at legal is discuss@... the form at
> incubator is general@. That doesn't make incubator's list "subordinate",
> just simply conveys that software isn't dev'eloped on that list and the
> focus is more, uhm, general.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> > I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if we were
> > shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations otherwise
> >
> > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <
> andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what people
> > are
> > > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > > >
> > > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > > >
> > > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > > >
> > > > > private@diversity
> > > > > dev@diversity
> > > > >
> > > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> > > lists.
> > > > >
> > > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 to this.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > > >
> > > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
As yet another strawperson... The form at legal is discuss@... the form at
incubator is general@. That doesn't make incubator's list "subordinate",
just simply conveys that software isn't dev'eloped on that list and the
focus is more, uhm, general.
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if we were
> shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations otherwise
>
> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <andrew.musselman@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what people
> are
> > accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
> >
> > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > >
> > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > >
> > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > >
> > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > >
> > > > private@diversity
> > > > dev@diversity
> > > >
> > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > >
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> > lists.
> > > >
> > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > >
> > > > +1 to this.
> > > >
> > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > >
> > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>.
I thought about this but I think user@ would only makes sense if we were
shipping a product and possible has some negative connotations otherwise
On Fri 17. May 2019 at 23:33, Andrew Musselman <an...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> +1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what people are
> accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> >
> > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > >
> > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > >
> > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > >
> > > private@diversity
> > > dev@diversity
> > >
> > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > >
> > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > >
> > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> lists.
> > >
> > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > >
> > > +1 to this.
> > >
> > > - Sam Ruby
> > >
> > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Andrew Musselman <an...@gmail.com>.
+1 also (alternatively "discuss" could be "user" to mirror what people are
accustomed to for topic ettiquette)
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
>
> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > >
> > > - create diversity-private@
> > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> >
> > Counter proposal, consider:
> >
> > private@diversity
> > dev@diversity
> >
> > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> >
> > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other lists.
> >
> > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> >
> > +1 to this.
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > just there for infra testing purposes.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Trevor Grant <tr...@gmail.com>.
+1 to dev@diversity.a.o ,etc.
On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 7:43 PM Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1 with Kenn's discuss@diversity. We are not developers, and I worry
> that dev@diversity.a.o will make us seem too much like a software
> development project.
>
> -Joan "already too much software dev in my life" Touzet
>
> On 2019-05-20 0:56, Kenneth Knowles wrote:
> > On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 3:31 PM Griselda Cuevas <gris@google.com.invalid
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> My vote is as follow:
> >> - Mailing lists: +1 to Sam's proposal, i.e. dev@diversity,
> >> private@diversity
> >> & discuss@diversity with a redirecting alias for diversity@a.o
> >>
> >
> > +1 though I prefer discuss@diversity be the alias and diveristy@a.o be
> the
> > primary. Either way is good.
> >
> > Kenn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> - Website: +1
> >>
> >> I'd suggest we put some thoughts on the page design to make it accesible
> >> and easy to find info, so let's request the creation of the URL and kick
> >> start a Jira Board to organice building the page. I'll pause this
> >> discussion here to avoid noise.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:42 PM Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy
> >> <ai...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> +1 on Sam's proposal.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>> *From: *Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> >>> *Date: *Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM
> >>> *To: * <di...@apache.org>
> >>>
> >>> I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - create diversity-private@
> >>>>>> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Counter proposal, consider:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> private@diversity
> >>>>> dev@diversity
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> >>>>> diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> >>>>> something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> >>> lists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +1 to this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Sam Ruby
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> >>>>> just there for infra testing purposes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
Tldr; I agree with Gris and Sam:
discuss@diversity.apache.org == diversity@apache.org
dev@diversity.apache.org for getting stuff done
private@diversity.apache.org for really personal stuff like discussing trolls
Even though we are not a traditional project with software for the public good as a deliverable, we do have to develop our deliverables and so we need a dev@ list.
Craig
> On May 21, 2019, at 11:49 AM, Griselda Cuevas <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I agree we are not a software developer program, but we do develop tools
> and other things. In any case, I hear you here.
>
> I'd continue to support dev@ since it'd be intuitive for folks already in
> the community to go here if they want to get things done.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 10:43, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> +1 with Kenn's discuss@diversity. We are not developers, and I worry
>> that dev@diversity.a.o will make us seem too much like a software
>> development project.
>>
>> -Joan "already too much software dev in my life" Touzet
>>
>> On 2019-05-20 0:56, Kenneth Knowles wrote:
>>> On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 3:31 PM Griselda Cuevas <gris@google.com.invalid
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> My vote is as follow:
>>>> - Mailing lists: +1 to Sam's proposal, i.e. dev@diversity,
>>>> private@diversity
>>>> & discuss@diversity with a redirecting alias for diversity@a.o
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 though I prefer discuss@diversity be the alias and diveristy@a.o be
>> the
>>> primary. Either way is good.
>>>
>>> Kenn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> - Website: +1
>>>>
>>>> I'd suggest we put some thoughts on the page design to make it accesible
>>>> and easy to find info, so let's request the creation of the URL and kick
>>>> start a Jira Board to organice building the page. I'll pause this
>>>> discussion here to avoid noise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:42 PM Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy
>>>> <ai...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1 on Sam's proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
>>>>> *Date: *Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM
>>>>> *To: * <di...@apache.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - create diversity-private@
>>>>>>>> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Counter proposal, consider:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> private@diversity
>>>>>>> dev@diversity
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
>>>>>>> diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
>>>>>>> something like infra, which is not a PMC:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
>>>>> lists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - create https://diversity.apache.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 to this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
>>>>>>> just there for infra testing purposes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>>
>>
Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Griselda Cuevas <gr...@apache.org>.
I agree we are not a software developer program, but we do develop tools
and other things. In any case, I hear you here.
I'd continue to support dev@ since it'd be intuitive for folks already in
the community to go here if they want to get things done.
On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 10:43, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1 with Kenn's discuss@diversity. We are not developers, and I worry
> that dev@diversity.a.o will make us seem too much like a software
> development project.
>
> -Joan "already too much software dev in my life" Touzet
>
> On 2019-05-20 0:56, Kenneth Knowles wrote:
> > On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 3:31 PM Griselda Cuevas <gris@google.com.invalid
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> My vote is as follow:
> >> - Mailing lists: +1 to Sam's proposal, i.e. dev@diversity,
> >> private@diversity
> >> & discuss@diversity with a redirecting alias for diversity@a.o
> >>
> >
> > +1 though I prefer discuss@diversity be the alias and diveristy@a.o be
> the
> > primary. Either way is good.
> >
> > Kenn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> - Website: +1
> >>
> >> I'd suggest we put some thoughts on the page design to make it accesible
> >> and easy to find info, so let's request the creation of the URL and kick
> >> start a Jira Board to organice building the page. I'll pause this
> >> discussion here to avoid noise.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:42 PM Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy
> >> <ai...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> +1 on Sam's proposal.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>> *From: *Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> >>> *Date: *Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM
> >>> *To: * <di...@apache.org>
> >>>
> >>> I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - create diversity-private@
> >>>>>> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Counter proposal, consider:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> private@diversity
> >>>>> dev@diversity
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> >>>>> diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> >>>>> something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> >>> lists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +1 to this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Sam Ruby
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> >>>>> just there for infra testing purposes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.
+1 with Kenn's discuss@diversity. We are not developers, and I worry
that dev@diversity.a.o will make us seem too much like a software
development project.
-Joan "already too much software dev in my life" Touzet
On 2019-05-20 0:56, Kenneth Knowles wrote:
> On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 3:31 PM Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> My vote is as follow:
>> - Mailing lists: +1 to Sam's proposal, i.e. dev@diversity,
>> private@diversity
>> & discuss@diversity with a redirecting alias for diversity@a.o
>>
>
> +1 though I prefer discuss@diversity be the alias and diveristy@a.o be the
> primary. Either way is good.
>
> Kenn
>
>
>
>
>> - Website: +1
>>
>> I'd suggest we put some thoughts on the page design to make it accesible
>> and easy to find info, so let's request the creation of the URL and kick
>> start a Jira Board to organice building the page. I'll pause this
>> discussion here to avoid noise.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:42 PM Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy
>> <ai...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 on Sam's proposal.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> *From: *Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
>>> *Date: *Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM
>>> *To: * <di...@apache.org>
>>>
>>> I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
>>>>
>>>> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - create diversity-private@
>>>>>> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
>>>>>
>>>>> Counter proposal, consider:
>>>>>
>>>>> private@diversity
>>>>> dev@diversity
>>>>>
>>>>> And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
>>>>> diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
>>>>> something like infra, which is not a PMC:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
>>> lists.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - create https://diversity.apache.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> +1 to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>>>
>>>>> (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
>>>>> just there for infra testing purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org>.
On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 3:31 PM Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> My vote is as follow:
> - Mailing lists: +1 to Sam's proposal, i.e. dev@diversity,
> private@diversity
> & discuss@diversity with a redirecting alias for diversity@a.o
>
+1 though I prefer discuss@diversity be the alias and diveristy@a.o be the
primary. Either way is good.
Kenn
> - Website: +1
>
> I'd suggest we put some thoughts on the page design to make it accesible
> and easy to find info, so let's request the creation of the URL and kick
> start a Jira Board to organice building the page. I'll pause this
> discussion here to avoid noise.
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:42 PM Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy
> <ai...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > +1 on Sam's proposal.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > *From: *Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > *Date: *Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM
> > *To: * <di...@apache.org>
> >
> > I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> > >
> > > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > > >
> > > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > > >
> > > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > > >
> > > > private@diversity
> > > > dev@diversity
> > > >
> > > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > > >
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> > lists.
> > > >
> > > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > > >
> > > > +1 to this.
> > > >
> > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > >
> > > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.INVALID>.
Hi folks,
My vote is as follow:
- Mailing lists: +1 to Sam's proposal, i.e. dev@diversity, private@diversity
& discuss@diversity with a redirecting alias for diversity@a.o
- Website: +1
I'd suggest we put some thoughts on the page design to make it accesible
and easy to find info, so let's request the creation of the URL and kick
start a Jira Board to organice building the page. I'll pause this
discussion here to avoid noise.
On Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:42 PM Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy
<ai...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
> +1 on Sam's proposal.
>
> Thank you,
>
> *From: *Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> *Date: *Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM
> *To: * <di...@apache.org>
>
> I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
> >
> > On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > > >
> > > > - create diversity-private@
> > > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> > >
> > > Counter proposal, consider:
> > >
> > > private@diversity
> > > dev@diversity
> > >
> > > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> > >
> > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> > >
> > > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other
> lists.
> > >
> > > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> > >
> > > +1 to this.
> > >
> > > - Sam Ruby
> > >
> > > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > > just there for infra testing purposes.
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy <ai...@google.com.INVALID>.
+1 on Sam's proposal.
Thank you,
*From: *Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>
*Date: *Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM
*To: * <di...@apache.org>
I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
>
> On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> > >
> > > - create diversity-private@
> > > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> >
> > Counter proposal, consider:
> >
> > private@diversity
> > dev@diversity
> >
> > And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> > diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> > something like infra, which is not a PMC:
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
> >
> > Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other lists.
> >
> > > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
> >
> > +1 to this.
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> > (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> > just there for infra testing purposes.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>.
I’m +1 on your counter proposal, Sam
On Fri 17. May 2019 at 21:37, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> >
> > in summary, I have three proposed actions:
> >
> > - create diversity-private@
> > - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
>
> Counter proposal, consider:
>
> private@diversity
> dev@diversity
>
> And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
> diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
> something like infra, which is not a PMC:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
>
> Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other lists.
>
> > - create https://diversity.apache.org/
>
> +1 to this.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> (*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
> just there for infra testing purposes.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:20 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
>
> - create diversity-private@
> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
Counter proposal, consider:
private@diversity
dev@diversity
And ask that diversity@ be renamed to discuss@diversity, with
diversity@ being an alias for that list. The end result will be
something like infra, which is not a PMC:
https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@infra.apache.org
Note the list of mailing lists(*), including a drop down for other lists.
> - create https://diversity.apache.org/
+1 to this.
- Sam Ruby
(*) In case anyone is wondering, devnull is not a real list, it is
just there for infra testing purposes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:27 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Hi Naomi,
>
> I would hope it would be possible to remove an individual from any ML. I am not proposing that we tolerate or moderate unhelpful behavior. I am proposing that we refine appropriate ways of stopping unwanted behavior by eventually figuring out the best response that is non-combative, takes the high road, yet shuts down unhelpful discussions. That would be the "development" of a "tool" that folks on other lists can use to manage unhelpful behavior. Creating more MLs is not a solution other projects can use as easily.
>
> That said, ML's are cheap, so no objections to giving it a try.
It is indeed possible, and it is even possible to restrict mailing
lists to subscribers only and to moderate subscription requests.
I will say that the correct architecture of mailing lists can
significantly reduce interference. In particular, if you have a group
focused on deliverables (like I hope and expect this one will be!) and
the dev list is at least moderately busy, often ignoring unhelpful
input is successful in that you don't need to go the next step. I've
even seen strategies used like directing update notifications from
JIRA and wikis and other places to the dev list to emphasize that this
is a place where work is getting done.
I can name a few places at the ASF where such an approach is not
effective. Generally those groups don't have clear deliverables.
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
- Sam Ruby
> On 5/17/19, 9:59 AM, "Naomi Slater" <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> I've thought a bit more about Ross's proposal, and I think I've come to the
> conclusion that I prefer:
>
> diversity@apache.org - for questions and answers, debate, etc
> diversity-dev@apache.org - a place for this committee to get work done
>
> I say this because there seems to be some consensus that we want to start
> building a FAQ and a list of resources. and it makes sense to me that that
> activity is being driven by the discussions on a list under our direct
> purview (i.e. diversity@apache.org)
>
> Alex, if someone tries to derail work being done on diversity-dev@ with
> "debate" and requests to be educated or "convinced", and they refuse to
> move that stuff to diversity@, we can, quite simply, remove them from the
> list
>
> removing troublesome people from diversity-dev@ takes a lot less energy
> than trying to tolerate/moderate their presence
>
> On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 18:42, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > I guess I don't understand how telling someone to go to a different list
> > will work regardless of which list we tell them to go to. That's why I
> > offered that we need to practice and hone our management of certain types
> > of posts instead.
> >
> > My 2 cents,
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 5/17/19, 8:54 AM, "Naomi Slater" <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 16:37, Ross Gardler
> > <Ro...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > On the topic of another list, why wouldn't "off-topic" be comdev?
> > >
> > > I think most, if not all, of us are in there. If we take the
> > > responsibility of ensuring diversity and welcoming in that list then
> > we are
> > > starting to spread by example.
> > >
> >
> > interesting proposal! what do others think?
> >
> > also: do we need buy-in from the ComDev PMC? I would like to formalize
> > this
> > setup in our community guidelines (see other thread)
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
Hi Naomi,
I would hope it would be possible to remove an individual from any ML. I am not proposing that we tolerate or moderate unhelpful behavior. I am proposing that we refine appropriate ways of stopping unwanted behavior by eventually figuring out the best response that is non-combative, takes the high road, yet shuts down unhelpful discussions. That would be the "development" of a "tool" that folks on other lists can use to manage unhelpful behavior. Creating more MLs is not a solution other projects can use as easily.
That said, ML's are cheap, so no objections to giving it a try.
My 2 cents,
-Alex
On 5/17/19, 9:59 AM, "Naomi Slater" <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
I've thought a bit more about Ross's proposal, and I think I've come to the
conclusion that I prefer:
diversity@apache.org - for questions and answers, debate, etc
diversity-dev@apache.org - a place for this committee to get work done
I say this because there seems to be some consensus that we want to start
building a FAQ and a list of resources. and it makes sense to me that that
activity is being driven by the discussions on a list under our direct
purview (i.e. diversity@apache.org)
Alex, if someone tries to derail work being done on diversity-dev@ with
"debate" and requests to be educated or "convinced", and they refuse to
move that stuff to diversity@, we can, quite simply, remove them from the
list
removing troublesome people from diversity-dev@ takes a lot less energy
than trying to tolerate/moderate their presence
On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 18:42, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
> I guess I don't understand how telling someone to go to a different list
> will work regardless of which list we tell them to go to. That's why I
> offered that we need to practice and hone our management of certain types
> of posts instead.
>
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
>
> On 5/17/19, 8:54 AM, "Naomi Slater" <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 16:37, Ross Gardler
> <Ro...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On the topic of another list, why wouldn't "off-topic" be comdev?
> >
> > I think most, if not all, of us are in there. If we take the
> > responsibility of ensuring diversity and welcoming in that list then
> we are
> > starting to spread by example.
> >
>
> interesting proposal! what do others think?
>
> also: do we need buy-in from the ComDev PMC? I would like to formalize
> this
> setup in our community guidelines (see other thread)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>.
I've thought a bit more about Ross's proposal, and I think I've come to the
conclusion that I prefer:
diversity@apache.org - for questions and answers, debate, etc
diversity-dev@apache.org - a place for this committee to get work done
I say this because there seems to be some consensus that we want to start
building a FAQ and a list of resources. and it makes sense to me that that
activity is being driven by the discussions on a list under our direct
purview (i.e. diversity@apache.org)
Alex, if someone tries to derail work being done on diversity-dev@ with
"debate" and requests to be educated or "convinced", and they refuse to
move that stuff to diversity@, we can, quite simply, remove them from the
list
removing troublesome people from diversity-dev@ takes a lot less energy
than trying to tolerate/moderate their presence
On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 18:42, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
> I guess I don't understand how telling someone to go to a different list
> will work regardless of which list we tell them to go to. That's why I
> offered that we need to practice and hone our management of certain types
> of posts instead.
>
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
>
> On 5/17/19, 8:54 AM, "Naomi Slater" <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 16:37, Ross Gardler
> <Ro...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On the topic of another list, why wouldn't "off-topic" be comdev?
> >
> > I think most, if not all, of us are in there. If we take the
> > responsibility of ensuring diversity and welcoming in that list then
> we are
> > starting to spread by example.
> >
>
> interesting proposal! what do others think?
>
> also: do we need buy-in from the ComDev PMC? I would like to formalize
> this
> setup in our community guidelines (see other thread)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
I guess I don't understand how telling someone to go to a different list will work regardless of which list we tell them to go to. That's why I offered that we need to practice and hone our management of certain types of posts instead.
My 2 cents,
-Alex
On 5/17/19, 8:54 AM, "Naomi Slater" <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 16:37, Ross Gardler
<Ro...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote:
> On the topic of another list, why wouldn't "off-topic" be comdev?
>
> I think most, if not all, of us are in there. If we take the
> responsibility of ensuring diversity and welcoming in that list then we are
> starting to spread by example.
>
interesting proposal! what do others think?
also: do we need buy-in from the ComDev PMC? I would like to formalize this
setup in our community guidelines (see other thread)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Andrew Musselman <an...@gmail.com>.
+1 from me (as a newcomer to both lists)
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 8:54 AM Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 16:37, Ross Gardler
> <Ro...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On the topic of another list, why wouldn't "off-topic" be comdev?
> >
> > I think most, if not all, of us are in there. If we take the
> > responsibility of ensuring diversity and welcoming in that list then we
> are
> > starting to spread by example.
> >
>
> interesting proposal! what do others think?
>
> also: do we need buy-in from the ComDev PMC? I would like to formalize this
> setup in our community guidelines (see other thread)
>
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org>.
On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 16:37, Ross Gardler
<Ro...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote:
> On the topic of another list, why wouldn't "off-topic" be comdev?
>
> I think most, if not all, of us are in there. If we take the
> responsibility of ensuring diversity and welcoming in that list then we are
> starting to spread by example.
>
interesting proposal! what do others think?
also: do we need buy-in from the ComDev PMC? I would like to formalize this
setup in our community guidelines (see other thread)
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com.INVALID>.
On the topic of another list, why wouldn't "off-topic" be comdev?
I think most, if not all, of us are in there. If we take the responsibility of ensuring diversity and welcoming in that list then we are starting to spread by example.
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
________________________________
From: Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 6:40:18 AM
To: diversity@apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
From a purely selfish point of view, I would rather make the FAQ and
Resources pages HTML than wiki. I am in the process of learning
Confluence so I can edit the wiki. I already know HTML.
On 5/17/2019 6:20 AM, Naomi Slater wrote:
> hey folks,
>
> now the D&I committee is official, I think it's time we think about the
> resources we want to commission
>
> so far we have one mailing list:
>
> - diversity@apache.org
>
> we also have:
>
> - https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.apache.org%2Fconfluence%2Fpages%2Fviewpage.action%3FpageId%3D112820458&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3687d779e3a1426c524408d6dacd3d4c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636936972368293255&sdata=VgziJFJwoFz42AcHklgMrMO3Xw2L1kS5Vp7jvqL7UXo%3D&reserved=0
> -
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fissues.apache.org%2Fjira%2Fprojects%2FDI%2Fissues%2FDI-2%3Ffilter%3Dallopenissues&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3687d779e3a1426c524408d6dacd3d4c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636936972368303250&sdata=FurUfOHWfnbYdpLGDpgsEZNKp53L84qxeKJkoHP43sw%3D&reserved=0
>
> at a minimum, I would like to suggest we create:
>
> - diversity-private@apache.org (for use akin to how private@tlp.apache.org
> lists are used)
>
> I am also wondering if we want to create:
>
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdiversity.apache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3687d779e3a1426c524408d6dacd3d4c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636936972368303250&sdata=nJGVEAFnBqrNq2OtaSDUNToSlIkkdyyaehJgMCG1FCY%3D&reserved=0 <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.apache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3687d779e3a1426c524408d6dacd3d4c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636936972368303250&sdata=9GZ6AuV9ugXQxRdhFO%2BhQKZCFHrc%2BBdt9CbWMONmH7s%3D&reserved=0>
>
> this could be a more formal, polished presence for us on the Apache site.
> the first port of all for Apache committers/members, as well as outsiders.
> (whereas the wiki would be more for our own use as a committee)
>
> I'd also like to bring back the suggestion that we have a third list
> exclusively for off-topic threads (my rubric for "off-topic" would be "is
> this helping us get work done>"). people can do what they like on the other
> list (within reason). bring up beginner questions, request education,
> rehash old debates, whatever
>
> diversity-discuss@apache.org might work for this. it fits in with our other
> top-level foo-discuss@ mailing lists. and it's a value-neutral name
>
> I want to stress my belief that if we don't have a dedicated mailing list
> for "debates" and requests for education, and so on, there will be no way
> of dealing with that stuff on diversity@ in a way that doesn't run the risk
> of derailing productive threads and sapping contributor energy. I really
> want to be able to say "this is off-topic for this list, please move it to
> diversity-discuss@" (and that is something we can enforce if someone
> decides to cause problems)
>
> yes, trolls are likely to come straight to diversity@, but we can direct
> them elsewhere (see above)
>
> an alternative way of doing this would be to use diversity@ for general
> discussion and create diversity-dev@ for the committee to actually get work
> done. I don't think this solves the troll problem. they'll just join
> diversity-dev@ instead. but we can do the same thing, and direct them to
> diversity@
>
> really, I think this comes down to the semantics of -discuss and -dev and
> what we think is more suitable
>
> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
>
> - create diversity-private@
> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> - create https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdiversity.apache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3687d779e3a1426c524408d6dacd3d4c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636936972368303250&sdata=nJGVEAFnBqrNq2OtaSDUNToSlIkkdyyaehJgMCG1FCY%3D&reserved=0 <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.apache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3687d779e3a1426c524408d6dacd3d4c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636936972368303250&sdata=9GZ6AuV9ugXQxRdhFO%2BhQKZCFHrc%2BBdt9CbWMONmH7s%3D&reserved=0>
>
> I am sending this email to see if we have consensus around one or more of
> these proposals
>
> after waiting a bit, I will assume lazy consensus for anything with no
> raised objections and request the resource
>
> thanks!
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
From a purely selfish point of view, I would rather make the FAQ and
Resources pages HTML than wiki. I am in the process of learning
Confluence so I can edit the wiki. I already know HTML.
On 5/17/2019 6:20 AM, Naomi Slater wrote:
> hey folks,
>
> now the D&I committee is official, I think it's time we think about the
> resources we want to commission
>
> so far we have one mailing list:
>
> - diversity@apache.org
>
> we also have:
>
> - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=112820458
> -
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/DI/issues/DI-2?filter=allopenissues
>
> at a minimum, I would like to suggest we create:
>
> - diversity-private@apache.org (for use akin to how private@tlp.apache.org
> lists are used)
>
> I am also wondering if we want to create:
>
> https://diversity.apache.org/ <https://community.apache.org/>
>
> this could be a more formal, polished presence for us on the Apache site.
> the first port of all for Apache committers/members, as well as outsiders.
> (whereas the wiki would be more for our own use as a committee)
>
> I'd also like to bring back the suggestion that we have a third list
> exclusively for off-topic threads (my rubric for "off-topic" would be "is
> this helping us get work done>"). people can do what they like on the other
> list (within reason). bring up beginner questions, request education,
> rehash old debates, whatever
>
> diversity-discuss@apache.org might work for this. it fits in with our other
> top-level foo-discuss@ mailing lists. and it's a value-neutral name
>
> I want to stress my belief that if we don't have a dedicated mailing list
> for "debates" and requests for education, and so on, there will be no way
> of dealing with that stuff on diversity@ in a way that doesn't run the risk
> of derailing productive threads and sapping contributor energy. I really
> want to be able to say "this is off-topic for this list, please move it to
> diversity-discuss@" (and that is something we can enforce if someone
> decides to cause problems)
>
> yes, trolls are likely to come straight to diversity@, but we can direct
> them elsewhere (see above)
>
> an alternative way of doing this would be to use diversity@ for general
> discussion and create diversity-dev@ for the committee to actually get work
> done. I don't think this solves the troll problem. they'll just join
> diversity-dev@ instead. but we can do the same thing, and direct them to
> diversity@
>
> really, I think this comes down to the semantics of -discuss and -dev and
> what we think is more suitable
>
> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
>
> - create diversity-private@
> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> - create https://diversity.apache.org/ <https://community.apache.org/>
>
> I am sending this email to see if we have consensus around one or more of
> these proposals
>
> after waiting a bit, I will assume lazy consensus for anything with no
> raised objections and request the resource
>
> thanks!
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] committee resources
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
+1 to everything here. I prefer diversity dev because I think most folks
will naturally go to diversity for questions. It will be easier to tell
folks who end up on dev that this is for getting work done
On Fri, May 17, 2019, 08:20 Naomi Slater <no...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> hey folks,
>
> now the D&I committee is official, I think it's time we think about the
> resources we want to commission
>
> so far we have one mailing list:
>
> - diversity@apache.org
>
> we also have:
>
> -
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=112820458
> -
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/DI/issues/DI-2?filter=allopenissues
>
> at a minimum, I would like to suggest we create:
>
> - diversity-private@apache.org (for use akin to how private@tlp.apache.org
> lists are used)
>
> I am also wondering if we want to create:
>
> https://diversity.apache.org/ <https://community.apache.org/>
>
> this could be a more formal, polished presence for us on the Apache site.
> the first port of all for Apache committers/members, as well as outsiders.
> (whereas the wiki would be more for our own use as a committee)
>
> I'd also like to bring back the suggestion that we have a third list
> exclusively for off-topic threads (my rubric for "off-topic" would be "is
> this helping us get work done>"). people can do what they like on the other
> list (within reason). bring up beginner questions, request education,
> rehash old debates, whatever
>
> diversity-discuss@apache.org might work for this. it fits in with our
> other
> top-level foo-discuss@ mailing lists. and it's a value-neutral name
>
> I want to stress my belief that if we don't have a dedicated mailing list
> for "debates" and requests for education, and so on, there will be no way
> of dealing with that stuff on diversity@ in a way that doesn't run the
> risk
> of derailing productive threads and sapping contributor energy. I really
> want to be able to say "this is off-topic for this list, please move it to
> diversity-discuss@" (and that is something we can enforce if someone
> decides to cause problems)
>
> yes, trolls are likely to come straight to diversity@, but we can direct
> them elsewhere (see above)
>
> an alternative way of doing this would be to use diversity@ for general
> discussion and create diversity-dev@ for the committee to actually get
> work
> done. I don't think this solves the troll problem. they'll just join
> diversity-dev@ instead. but we can do the same thing, and direct them to
> diversity@
>
> really, I think this comes down to the semantics of -discuss and -dev and
> what we think is more suitable
>
> in summary, I have three proposed actions:
>
> - create diversity-private@
> - create diversity-discuss@ or diversity-dev@
> - create https://diversity.apache.org/ <https://community.apache.org/>
>
> I am sending this email to see if we have consensus around one or more of
> these proposals
>
> after waiting a bit, I will assume lazy consensus for anything with no
> raised objections and request the resource
>
> thanks!
>