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Posted to dev@maven.apache.org by Slawomir Jaranowski <s....@gmail.com> on 2023/03/30 20:15:05 UTC
[DISCUSS] Radical Fast Forward to 3.6.3
Hi,
Last year we have discussion about to switch to 3.5.4 [1] [2]
Today we have first plugin mave-help-plugin which require 3.6.3
Most plugins have 3.2.5 as minimum - we did hard work last year, many
releases and so on. [3]
When we want to upgrade m-help-p in ASF Maven parent we should also bump
the minimum Maven version used for build [4].
By the way, on our Jenkins we use 3.6.3 for plugin testing [5], so we don't
know if they still are working for older versions.
So therefore I'm for going forward and start switching to 3.6.3
[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/068gkkm2ft8cfp1dmccbw9c6667nzdml
[2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/15vonvlgfjprd37bg5svp7z1rst9vlrz
[3]
https://ci-maven.apache.org/job/Maven/job/maven-box/job/maven-dist-tool/job/master/site/dist-tool-prerequisites.html
[4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MPOM-398
[5]
https://github.com/apache/maven-jenkins-lib/blob/master/vars/asfMavenTlpPlgnBuild.groovy#L43
--
Sławomir Jaranowski
Re: [DISCUSS] Radical Fast Forward to 3.6.3
Posted by Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>.
Le ven. 31 mars 2023 à 14:09, Elliotte Rusty Harold <el...@ibiblio.org> a
écrit :
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 3:17 AM Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > LGTM
> > It should be linked to core version support.
> > Might need some update of https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> > maybe we should write some policy such we support only last version of
> > 3 last main branches (e,g reached GA):
> >
> > - 3.6.x
> > - 3.8.x
> > - 3.9.x
>
>
> There's at least one plugin that's not at 3.2.5 minimum yet, maybe more.
>
> I haven't seen anything earlier than 3.3 in years, so I think we can
> safely move to 3.3 minimum, and *maybe* 3.5. However only the last
> three major versions is far too aggressive. There are still a lot of
> random package managers out there that don't update very fast, if at
> all. E.g. someone on Mac OS Catalina 10.15.7 will get no further
> updates unless they directly install Maven instead of using HomeBrew,
> and I have at least one Mac that's stuck on 10.14. I'm not sure what
> Maven version Homebrew installs there. Core developers and people who
> use Maven all day, every day will install it from Apache, but there
> are a lot of folks out there who just pull it out once or twice a year
> when they need it, or when some random package requires it. They're
> not necessarily even fulltime or professional programmers.
>
> The most recent version I've seen a package manager install is 3.6.3.
> We've heard on this list from people who can't upgrade past 3.7 or 3.8
> due to unexpected behavior changes and bugs that impacted them. And
> what happens when there's the next critical security vulnerability in
> some logging framework or I/O package? Do we tell these users they
> have to upgrade everything all at once to fix it?
>
> 3.5.4 is advanced enough. The community isn't ready to move further.
>
Not sure it is relevant but we can do a security release on 1.x if some
people will, this is how asf works so 3.5 can be under that scope but it is
not realistic to think we would handle seriously more than 2 major so 4.x
and 3.9 are really the one with some resources.
It is morr about ensuring it is known and written somewhere than anything
else, nothing changes except we assume what we do instead of faking
handling more than facts IMHO.
Also people blocked on < 3.8 are mainly blocked for "not maven" reasons so
it shouldnt block us at that stage IMHO.
> --
> Elliotte Rusty Harold
> elharo@ibiblio.org
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Radical Fast Forward to 3.6.3
Posted by Elliotte Rusty Harold <el...@ibiblio.org>.
On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 3:17 AM Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> LGTM
> It should be linked to core version support.
> Might need some update of https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> maybe we should write some policy such we support only last version of
> 3 last main branches (e,g reached GA):
>
> - 3.6.x
> - 3.8.x
> - 3.9.x
There's at least one plugin that's not at 3.2.5 minimum yet, maybe more.
I haven't seen anything earlier than 3.3 in years, so I think we can
safely move to 3.3 minimum, and *maybe* 3.5. However only the last
three major versions is far too aggressive. There are still a lot of
random package managers out there that don't update very fast, if at
all. E.g. someone on Mac OS Catalina 10.15.7 will get no further
updates unless they directly install Maven instead of using HomeBrew,
and I have at least one Mac that's stuck on 10.14. I'm not sure what
Maven version Homebrew installs there. Core developers and people who
use Maven all day, every day will install it from Apache, but there
are a lot of folks out there who just pull it out once or twice a year
when they need it, or when some random package requires it. They're
not necessarily even fulltime or professional programmers.
The most recent version I've seen a package manager install is 3.6.3.
We've heard on this list from people who can't upgrade past 3.7 or 3.8
due to unexpected behavior changes and bugs that impacted them. And
what happens when there's the next critical security vulnerability in
some logging framework or I/O package? Do we tell these users they
have to upgrade everything all at once to fix it?
3.5.4 is advanced enough. The community isn't ready to move further.
--
Elliotte Rusty Harold
elharo@ibiblio.org
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Re: [DISCUSS] Radical Fast Forward to 3.6.3
Posted by Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>.
+1
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
<https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance>
Le ven. 31 mars 2023 à 05:17, Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org> a écrit :
> LGTM
> It should be linked to core version support.
> Might need some update of https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> maybe we should write some policy such we support only last version of
> 3 last main branches (e,g reached GA):
>
> - 3.6.x
> - 3.8.x
> - 3.9.x
>
> then when 4.0.x reach GA we can drop 3.6.x
>
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 at 06:15, Slawomir Jaranowski
> <s....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Last year we have discussion about to switch to 3.5.4 [1] [2]
> >
> > Today we have first plugin mave-help-plugin which require 3.6.3
> >
> > Most plugins have 3.2.5 as minimum - we did hard work last year, many
> > releases and so on. [3]
> >
> > When we want to upgrade m-help-p in ASF Maven parent we should also bump
> > the minimum Maven version used for build [4].
> > By the way, on our Jenkins we use 3.6.3 for plugin testing [5], so we
> don't
> > know if they still are working for older versions.
> >
> > So therefore I'm for going forward and start switching to 3.6.3
> >
> > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/068gkkm2ft8cfp1dmccbw9c6667nzdml
> > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/15vonvlgfjprd37bg5svp7z1rst9vlrz
> > [3]
> >
> https://ci-maven.apache.org/job/Maven/job/maven-box/job/maven-dist-tool/job/master/site/dist-tool-prerequisites.html
> > [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MPOM-398
> > [5]
> >
> https://github.com/apache/maven-jenkins-lib/blob/master/vars/asfMavenTlpPlgnBuild.groovy#L43
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sławomir Jaranowski
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Radical Fast Forward to 3.6.3
Posted by Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org>.
LGTM
It should be linked to core version support.
Might need some update of https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
maybe we should write some policy such we support only last version of
3 last main branches (e,g reached GA):
- 3.6.x
- 3.8.x
- 3.9.x
then when 4.0.x reach GA we can drop 3.6.x
On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 at 06:15, Slawomir Jaranowski
<s....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Last year we have discussion about to switch to 3.5.4 [1] [2]
>
> Today we have first plugin mave-help-plugin which require 3.6.3
>
> Most plugins have 3.2.5 as minimum - we did hard work last year, many
> releases and so on. [3]
>
> When we want to upgrade m-help-p in ASF Maven parent we should also bump
> the minimum Maven version used for build [4].
> By the way, on our Jenkins we use 3.6.3 for plugin testing [5], so we don't
> know if they still are working for older versions.
>
> So therefore I'm for going forward and start switching to 3.6.3
>
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/068gkkm2ft8cfp1dmccbw9c6667nzdml
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/15vonvlgfjprd37bg5svp7z1rst9vlrz
> [3]
> https://ci-maven.apache.org/job/Maven/job/maven-box/job/maven-dist-tool/job/master/site/dist-tool-prerequisites.html
> [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MPOM-398
> [5]
> https://github.com/apache/maven-jenkins-lib/blob/master/vars/asfMavenTlpPlgnBuild.groovy#L43
>
>
> --
> Sławomir Jaranowski
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Re: [DISCUSS] Radical Fast Forward to 3.6.3
Posted by Slawomir Jaranowski <s....@gmail.com>.
pt., 31 mar 2023 o 11:06 Michael Osipov <mi...@apache.org> napisał(a):
> Am 2023-03-30 um 22:15 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Last year we have discussion about to switch to 3.5.4 [1] [2]
>
> Remember why I made this proposal: First version of Resolver API in
> Maven (our GAVs).
>
> > Today we have first plugin mave-help-plugin which require 3.6.3
>
> This is a special case, I guess.
>
> > Most plugins have 3.2.5 as minimum - we did hard work last year, many
> > releases and so on. [3]
>
> and look at that list. There are still so many components which have not
> been updated...
>
> > When we want to upgrade m-help-p in ASF Maven parent we should also bump
> > the minimum Maven version used for build [4].
> > By the way, on our Jenkins we use 3.6.3 for plugin testing [5], so we
> don't
> > know if they still are working for older versions.
> >
> > So therefore I'm for going forward and start switching to 3.6.3
>
> Which benefit do you expect here compared to 3.5.4 as a baseline?
>
>
Maybe there is no big benefit, but on our CI minimal version of used Maven
is 3.6.3 - so we don't have a sure that everything is ok for older versions.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
--
Sławomir Jaranowski
Re: [DISCUSS] Radical Fast Forward to 3.6.3
Posted by Michael Osipov <mi...@apache.org>.
Am 2023-03-30 um 22:15 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> Hi,
>
> Last year we have discussion about to switch to 3.5.4 [1] [2]
Remember why I made this proposal: First version of Resolver API in
Maven (our GAVs).
> Today we have first plugin mave-help-plugin which require 3.6.3
This is a special case, I guess.
> Most plugins have 3.2.5 as minimum - we did hard work last year, many
> releases and so on. [3]
and look at that list. There are still so many components which have not
been updated...
> When we want to upgrade m-help-p in ASF Maven parent we should also bump
> the minimum Maven version used for build [4].
> By the way, on our Jenkins we use 3.6.3 for plugin testing [5], so we don't
> know if they still are working for older versions.
>
> So therefore I'm for going forward and start switching to 3.6.3
Which benefit do you expect here compared to 3.5.4 as a baseline?
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