JSP translated to Tags???

["Gogineni, Pratima" <pg...@selectica.com>]

Speaking of JRUN - I was playing with their latest version 3.1 and they have
a very strange concept/tool ..

You can write jsp pages and name them with a *.jst extension and they get
translated to a custom tag instead of to a servlet. I thought it was not a
good idea - jsp to create tags to use in jsp? and i guess you lose quite a
bit of control on how it is translated etc. and I dont see why writing the
code  as  scriptlets in the jsp page is better than writing the tag handler
classes your self? 

Does any one see any merits in this approach?

pratima
-----Original Message-----
From: Gogineni, Pratima 
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:24 PM
To: 'struts-user@jakarta.apache.org'
Subject: RE: more strange JRUN behavior


sadly - I see this in 3.0 as well as 3.1 which was very recently released. I
havent tested the basic authentication as yet. I thought I would have more
control using the form based authentication. I need to evaluate and see if
the basic authentication works fine - else I should probably go with custom
authentication .... 

I went through their forums too and found messages about the form based
authentication.

Pratima

-----Original Message-----
From: George Craig [mailto:g-craig@mediaone.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:28 PM
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: more strange JRUN behavior


I, too, have observed this intermittent quirkiness in its authentication
behavior.

After reading all of their forum posts, the consensus is to use Basic
authentication. I concur that it has been the most stable for container
authentication in J-Run. I would shy away from Form-based authentication
until Macromedia has stabilized it in the next release (to some extent IIRC,
even they acknowledge its shortcomings.) However, I realize this might not
be an option for you.

For us, we've opted to use SiteMinder.

george


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gogineni, Pratima" <pg...@selectica.com>
To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: more strange JRUN behavior


>
> I have  a webapp that I have been testing under both tomcat and JRUN for
> sometime now. About a month ago I decided to go with app server provided
> form based security.
> I tested my app on JRUN,Tomcat and Resin and it worked fine.
>
> Since then I had been working only on tomcat - now when I tested with JRUN
> the login screen comes up, I enter the name and password and the screen
just
> hangs and the progress bar tells me "opening page j_security-check"  - now
> to check if it was the application that was causing the problem. I created
a
> dummy page that does nothing as the welcome page and I CAN login.
>
> So something in my application is causing JRUN to hang at the security
check
> - doesnt make too much sense to me. Another thing is that I disabled the
> authentication totally and the application works fine on JRUN.
>
> Now the question is - has anyone had similar problems with JRUN or have an
> idea why something like this should occur? Surely my app should not
> interfere with the appserver authentication - it should atleast
authenticate
> me and then show an error page. Also works fine in tomcat.... No error
> messages in the log files... My init servlets (both Action servlet and my
> own custom servlet) seem to be starting up fine.
>
> Does anyone have good/bad experiences with JRUN? I have had extremely
flaky
> behavior from JRUN.
> Things seem to work great on Tomcat and Resin.
>
> pratima

Re: JSP translated to Tags???

[Martin Cooper <ma...@tumbleweed.com>]

It seems to me that this is logically equivalent to using <jsp:include> with
<jsp:param> to specify the attribute values. In other words, this:

<mytags:foo attr1="bar" attr2="baz"/>

would be logically equivalent to this:

<jsp:include page="mytags/foo.jsp">
    <jsp:param name="attr1" value="bar"/>
    <jsp:param name="attr2" value="baz"/>
</jsp:include>

Is this correct, or is there more to it than that?

I guess one thing you would gain from using a tag versus an include is
better performance, but the idea does seem a little odd to me.

--
Martin Cooper


----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart" <Ed...@Sun.COM>
To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: JSP translated to Tags???


> I see two main benefits to something "like" this.  One is that it can be
> done by page authors, wihtout having to ask the developer.  If a page
> author has some fragment, it may even be just plain template!, it can
> encapsulate and reuse it.
>
> The other benefit is that is is actually quite hard to reuse tag
> handlers from Java.  The instantiation protocol is quite complex and
> easy to get wrong.  There is a reason for it but...
>
> The details of JST may or not be the best, but I like the concept, and
> the vendors and developers I've talked to like it too.  Other opinions?
>
> - eduard/o
>
> "Gogineni, Pratima" wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of JRUN - I was playing with their latest version 3.1 and they
have
> > a very strange concept/tool ..
> >
> > You can write jsp pages and name them with a *.jst extension and they
get
> > translated to a custom tag instead of to a servlet. I thought it was not
a
> > good idea - jsp to create tags to use in jsp? and i guess you lose quite
a
> > bit of control on how it is translated etc. and I dont see why writing
the
> > code  as  scriptlets in the jsp page is better than writing the tag
handler
> > classes your self?
> >
> > Does any one see any merits in this approach?
> >
> > pratima
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gogineni, Pratima
> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:24 PM
> > To: 'struts-user@jakarta.apache.org'
> > Subject: RE: more strange JRUN behavior
> >
> > sadly - I see this in 3.0 as well as 3.1 which was very recently
released. I
> > havent tested the basic authentication as yet. I thought I would have
more
> > control using the form based authentication. I need to evaluate and see
if
> > the basic authentication works fine - else I should probably go with
custom
> > authentication ....
> >
> > I went through their forums too and found messages about the form based
> > authentication.
> >
> > Pratima
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: George Craig [mailto:g-craig@mediaone.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:28 PM
> > To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: more strange JRUN behavior
> >
> > I, too, have observed this intermittent quirkiness in its authentication
> > behavior.
> >
> > After reading all of their forum posts, the consensus is to use Basic
> > authentication. I concur that it has been the most stable for container
> > authentication in J-Run. I would shy away from Form-based authentication
> > until Macromedia has stabilized it in the next release (to some extent
IIRC,
> > even they acknowledge its shortcomings.) However, I realize this might
not
> > be an option for you.
> >
> > For us, we've opted to use SiteMinder.
> >
> > george
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gogineni, Pratima" <pg...@selectica.com>
> > To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:16 PM
> > Subject: more strange JRUN behavior
> >
> > >
> > > I have  a webapp that I have been testing under both tomcat and JRUN
for
> > > sometime now. About a month ago I decided to go with app server
provided
> > > form based security.
> > > I tested my app on JRUN,Tomcat and Resin and it worked fine.
> > >
> > > Since then I had been working only on tomcat - now when I tested with
JRUN
> > > the login screen comes up, I enter the name and password and the
screen
> > just
> > > hangs and the progress bar tells me "opening page j_security-check"  -
now
> > > to check if it was the application that was causing the problem. I
created
> > a
> > > dummy page that does nothing as the welcome page and I CAN login.
> > >
> > > So something in my application is causing JRUN to hang at the security
> > check
> > > - doesnt make too much sense to me. Another thing is that I disabled
the
> > > authentication totally and the application works fine on JRUN.
> > >
> > > Now the question is - has anyone had similar problems with JRUN or
have an
> > > idea why something like this should occur? Surely my app should not
> > > interfere with the appserver authentication - it should atleast
> > authenticate
> > > me and then show an error page. Also works fine in tomcat.... No error
> > > messages in the log files... My init servlets (both Action servlet and
my
> > > own custom servlet) seem to be starting up fine.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have good/bad experiences with JRUN? I have had extremely
> > flaky
> > > behavior from JRUN.
> > > Things seem to work great on Tomcat and Resin.
> > >
> > > pratima

Re: JSP translated to Tags???

[Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart <Ed...@Sun.COM>]

I see two main benefits to something "like" this.  One is that it can be
done by page authors, wihtout having to ask the developer.  If a page
author has some fragment, it may even be just plain template!, it can
encapsulate and reuse it.

The other benefit is that is is actually quite hard to reuse tag
handlers from Java.  The instantiation protocol is quite complex and
easy to get wrong.  There is a reason for it but...

The details of JST may or not be the best, but I like the concept, and
the vendors and developers I've talked to like it too.  Other opinions?  

	- eduard/o

"Gogineni, Pratima" wrote:
> 
> Speaking of JRUN - I was playing with their latest version 3.1 and they have
> a very strange concept/tool ..
> 
> You can write jsp pages and name them with a *.jst extension and they get
> translated to a custom tag instead of to a servlet. I thought it was not a
> good idea - jsp to create tags to use in jsp? and i guess you lose quite a
> bit of control on how it is translated etc. and I dont see why writing the
> code  as  scriptlets in the jsp page is better than writing the tag handler
> classes your self?
> 
> Does any one see any merits in this approach?
> 
> pratima
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gogineni, Pratima
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:24 PM
> To: 'struts-user@jakarta.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: more strange JRUN behavior
> 
> sadly - I see this in 3.0 as well as 3.1 which was very recently released. I
> havent tested the basic authentication as yet. I thought I would have more
> control using the form based authentication. I need to evaluate and see if
> the basic authentication works fine - else I should probably go with custom
> authentication ....
> 
> I went through their forums too and found messages about the form based
> authentication.
> 
> Pratima
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Craig [mailto:g-craig@mediaone.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:28 PM
> To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: more strange JRUN behavior
> 
> I, too, have observed this intermittent quirkiness in its authentication
> behavior.
> 
> After reading all of their forum posts, the consensus is to use Basic
> authentication. I concur that it has been the most stable for container
> authentication in J-Run. I would shy away from Form-based authentication
> until Macromedia has stabilized it in the next release (to some extent IIRC,
> even they acknowledge its shortcomings.) However, I realize this might not
> be an option for you.
> 
> For us, we've opted to use SiteMinder.
> 
> george
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gogineni, Pratima" <pg...@selectica.com>
> To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:16 PM
> Subject: more strange JRUN behavior
> 
> >
> > I have  a webapp that I have been testing under both tomcat and JRUN for
> > sometime now. About a month ago I decided to go with app server provided
> > form based security.
> > I tested my app on JRUN,Tomcat and Resin and it worked fine.
> >
> > Since then I had been working only on tomcat - now when I tested with JRUN
> > the login screen comes up, I enter the name and password and the screen
> just
> > hangs and the progress bar tells me "opening page j_security-check"  - now
> > to check if it was the application that was causing the problem. I created
> a
> > dummy page that does nothing as the welcome page and I CAN login.
> >
> > So something in my application is causing JRUN to hang at the security
> check
> > - doesnt make too much sense to me. Another thing is that I disabled the
> > authentication totally and the application works fine on JRUN.
> >
> > Now the question is - has anyone had similar problems with JRUN or have an
> > idea why something like this should occur? Surely my app should not
> > interfere with the appserver authentication - it should atleast
> authenticate
> > me and then show an error page. Also works fine in tomcat.... No error
> > messages in the log files... My init servlets (both Action servlet and my
> > own custom servlet) seem to be starting up fine.
> >
> > Does anyone have good/bad experiences with JRUN? I have had extremely
> flaky
> > behavior from JRUN.
> > Things seem to work great on Tomcat and Resin.
> >
> > pratima