You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by "Merdes, Matthias" <me...@hdm-international.com> on 2007/05/23 09:49:41 UTC
AW: Cocoon Productivity - porting to c2.2 or to another web framework?
hi,
i agree with the last post.
both, better documentation and tool support are very much needed.
we are currently in a situation where we have to decide what to do with our cocoon 'legacy' app:
-port to cocoon 2.2 (we want spring in the service layer anyway)
-port to another web framework altogether (struts, spring mvc/webflow, tapestry, wicket, rife, what have you)
(staying with the old avalon-based architecture is not an option)
this is obviously a very hard decision involving a lot of risk and effort.
from my point of view the lack of
-internal documentation (getting started with with c2.2, how to migrate to c2.2 etc)
-third-party technical articles
-recent books, especially for c2.2 (there is a german one announced for fall...)
is a major issue.
the same holds for eclipse tool support.
there used to be some old plugins for the 2.1.x version but they don't seem to be maintained any more...
a recent post mentioned the issue of winning new users for cocoon.
however, keeping legacy users from migrating to competing frameworks should be considered as well.
cocoon is no doubt extremely powerful and flexible.
it would be a pity if this power could only be understood and hence used by a few initiated people (basically the committers) because of the lack of documentation and general visibility in the broader java/web community.
the very responsive, informed, and helpful mailing list is a big plus (thanks to everyone contributing)
but imho cannot be used as a replacement for proper documentation.
any feedback on this, especially the documentation and tool support issues would be much appreciated.
thanks
regards
matthias
| -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
| Von: ypomonh [mailto:ypomonh@freemail.gr]
| Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Mai 2007 15:54
| An: users@cocoon.apache.org
| Betreff: Re: Cocoon Productivity
|
| (note: just started using cocoon 3 months ago)
|
| Reinhard Poetz wrote:
| > Without good documentation it is very difficult to learn
| this way of
| > thinking and hence my reasoning that we need better docs.
|
| Although the basic concepts of cocoon seem appealing, the
| learning curve
| was/is very hard for me:
|
| - Books were written before flow and many of the described
| patterns of
| usage may not be advisable anymore.
| - Online documentation scarce (only cocoon site+wiki, no
| third-party)
| - Even for elementary stuff I have to bother the list (btw thanks
| everybody!).
|
| > Furtunatly Cocoon 2.2 isn't far anymore (the release of
| the first
| > release candidate should happen next week) and some of
| us are working
| > on a relaunch of the Cocoon website which will come
| together with a
| > major overhaul of our documentation.
|
| IMHO some efforts towards new tooling would be helpful.
| There is an old
| eclipse plugin for sitemap editing somewhere out there.
|
| > Then we will see if our diagnosis concerning the
| technical problems
| > and my assessment of the importance of documentation was correct.
|
| I strongly support your "assesment" :)
|
| Regards,
| ypomonh
|
|
|
|
| -----------------------------------------------------------
| ----------
| To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
| For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
|
|
Matthias Merdes
Senior Software Developer
_________________________________________
Heidelberg Mobil International GmbH
Phone: +49 6221 533 254
Fax: +49 6221 533 129
eMail: matthias.merdes@hdm-international.com
_________________________________________
Schloss-Wolfsbrunnenweg 33
69118 Heidelberg
Germany
Amtsgericht Mannheim / HRB 701994
CEO: Thomas Reinhart
________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: AW: Cocoon Productivity - porting to c2.2 or to another web framework?
Posted by Reinhard Haller <re...@interactive-net.de>.
Hi,
Grzegorz Kossakowski schrieb:
> In short: The more input I get about your current architectures the more
> output (as documentation) you can expect.
>
Don't forget to eliminate all those silly pieces of the docs from cocoon
1.x on the website and wiki. In following those path's the frustration
is growing fast, seeing the documentation is an untested copy of older
documents which don't work anymore.
Greetings
Reinhard
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: AW: Cocoon Productivity - porting to c2.2 or to another web framework?
Posted by Grzegorz Kossakowski <gk...@apache.org>.
Merdes, Matthias pisze:
> hi,
>
> i agree with the last post.
> both, better documentation and tool support are very much needed.
>
> we are currently in a situation where we have to decide what to do with our cocoon 'legacy' app:
> -port to cocoon 2.2 (we want spring in the service layer anyway)
> -port to another web framework altogether (struts, spring mvc/webflow, tapestry, wicket, rife, what have you)
> (staying with the old avalon-based architecture is not an option)
>
> this is obviously a very hard decision involving a lot of risk and effort.
> from my point of view the lack of
> -internal documentation (getting started with with c2.2, how to migrate to c2.2 etc)
It really improves last days, special kudos to Reinhard.
> -third-party technical articles
It's really hard to expect third-party technical articles for the stuff that wasn't released yet...
> -recent books, especially for c2.2 (there is a german one announced for fall...)
There are rumours that if it was successful it would be translated into English. :-)
> the same holds for eclipse tool support.
It's laughable that XML-oriented framework like Cocoon had no XML Schemas for all the syntax it uses. Really, from my expierience decent XML
editor (WTP in Eclipse, for example) powered by schemas can really boost development. We are aware of it and that's why we _have_ schemas in
C2.2.
> a recent post mentioned the issue of winning new users for cocoon.
> however, keeping legacy users from migrating to competing frameworks should be considered as well.
The problem with providing structured documentation for migration process is that there were so many different approaches for developing
applications in C2.1. What is more, they are not covered in the existing documentation.
I would be happy to spend some time at the end of June (I'll be free at that time) and describe how to migrate but I would really like to
know the starting point for the migration process. If you provide details about blocks and libraries you use, how many your own components
and their role is in your application I can do my best to ease your migration process.
In short: The more input I get about your current architectures the more output (as documentation) you can expect.
> cocoon is no doubt extremely powerful and flexible.
> it would be a pity if this power could only be understood and hence used by a few initiated people (basically the committers) because of the lack of documentation and general visibility in the broader java/web community.
>
> the very responsive, informed, and helpful mailing list is a big plus (thanks to everyone contributing)
> but imho cannot be used as a replacement for proper documentation.
+1
--
Grzegorz Kossakowski
http://reflectingonthevicissitudes.wordpress.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org