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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Henri Yandell <he...@yandell.org> on 2014/05/10 19:57:25 UTC
Re: Using content from StackOverflow
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin <
nour.mohammad@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri suggested is a
> good idea
>
> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support or in
> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it from this
> abstract PoV:
> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of the
> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that
> projects commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to
> answering questions/solving issues related to that project
> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content back in
> the project ?
> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any other
> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project, they
> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and then the
> answer that Henri provided will give some help
>
> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing to SO
> as an example
>
Do you have proposed text for a general case?
Hen
Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Any feedback would be appreciated. If what I explained doesn't make any
sense please update/correct so others and I can learn please.
Looking forward to your reply
On May 13, 2014 10:20 AM, "Mohammad Noureldin" <no...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi David
>
> I read both the "official" reference [0] and the ICLA [1] (thanks
> for your directions). Now based on [2] (which is the interpretation of
> the SO folks for "attribution required") and based on what is
> explained in both [0] & [1], I would like to discuss these three
> questions:
>
> 1- Can a committer take content (code, documentation, etc...) from
> sources, like SO for example, and incorporate/commit it into one of
> the ASF projects repositories from which sources are released ?
>
> 2- Can a committer take content (code, documentation, etc...) from
> sources, like SO for example, and incorporate/commit it into one of
> the ASF projects' websites ?
>
> 3- Can a user (someone with no signed ICLA filed)/committer take
> content (code, documentation, etc...) from sources, like SO for
> example, and incorporate it into one of the ASF projects' mailing
> lists ?
>
> My answers (based on my understanding):
>
> Answer -1&2: No, unless they comply with the "attributions" required
> and explained in [2], which is not compatible with what is explained
> in [0], or they get an OK from the content owners to take and
> republish the content under the Apache License or one of the "Category
> A" licenses [3]
>
> Answer - 3:
> 3.1: For the user case, I would say it does not count as they are
> not expected to be aware about this kind of limitations
> 3.2: For the committer case, it depends as in [2] (quoting):
>
> "So let me clarify what we mean by attribution. If you republish this
> content, we require that you:..."
>
> what does "republish" mean when it comes to sending this
> content on one of ASF projects' mailing lists ? If sending such
> content to a mailing list is considered "republishing" then
> committers MUST take this into account, if not then it is OK just to
> take this content and "republish" it via that mailing list
>
> I hope I explained what I would like to address from Henri's case into
> a generic one in a better way this time, taking into account the
> right/official sources
>
> Looking forward to your feedback
>
> [0] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html
> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
> [2] http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/
> [3] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-a
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi David
> >
> > Thanks for your review. I see my mistake indeed, but are you referring
> > only to the reference or the whole explanation in the draft ?
> >
> > Looking forward to your reply
> >
> > On May 13, 2014 6:52 AM, "David Crossley" <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
> >> > Hi
> >> >
> >> > Here is my draft:
> >> >
> >> > "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
> >> > mailing lists, etc...)?"
> >> >
> >> > "Ans: It totally depends on the source from which the content will be
> >> > taken. If the content is taken from sources (forums, mailing lists,
> >> > blogs, online books, general websites, etc...) is under a license that
> >> > is not compliant with the Apache License, in that case you need to get
> >> > clearance about that from the owners of that content, that is make
> >> > sure that they are willing to give you the content under the Apache
> >> > License or one of the "Category A: Authorized Licenses" (the quoted
> >> > text should appear as a link to:
> >> > https://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html).
> >>
> >> That reference is incorrect.
> >> Please see the statement at the top of that page.
> >>
> >> If you know of any place that still refers to that
> >> misleading information, then please add an Issue
> >> so that it can be rectified.
> >>
> >> Please read the proper reference carefully, and in conjunction
> >> with the Individual Contributor License Agreement (ICLA).
> >>
> >> -David
> >>
> >> > It is highly important to get this clearance recorded as an evidence
> >> > pereferrably via e-mail.
> >> >
> >> > Example: Can I take content from StackOverflow ? By default the
> >> > answer is No, as the content published on StackOverflow (and
> >> > associated sites) is under the "CC-SA license" with attribution
> >> > required (the quoted text should appear as a link to the license:
> >> > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), including any code.
> >> > This is a strong copyleft license and as such unlikely to be in
> >> > "Category A: Authorized Licenses". In this case you need the clearance
> >> > as explained above.
> >> > "
> >> >
> >> > Wdyt ?
> >> >
> >> > Notes: The links notes are intended to show as links on ASF website
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
> >> > <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Hi Henri
> >> > >
> >> > > Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
> >> > >
> >> > > On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
> >> > >> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Hi
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri
> >> > >>> suggested is
> >> > >>> a good idea
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users
> support
> >> > >>> or in
> >> > >>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it
> >> > >>> from this
> >> > >>> abstract PoV:
> >> > >>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of
> >> > >>> the
> >> > >>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of
> that
> >> > >>> projects
> >> > >>> commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to
> >> > >>> answering
> >> > >>> questions/solving issues related to that project
> >> > >>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content
> >> > >>> back in
> >> > >>> the project ?
> >> > >>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any
> >> > >>> other
> >> > >>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their
> project,
> >> > >>> they
> >> > >>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and
> >> > >>> then the
> >> > >>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I would actually take this question to its general case and
> pointing
> >> > >>> to
> >> > >>> SO as an example
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Hen
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Thanks
> >> > - Mohammad Noureldin
> >> > ----
> >> > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
> >> > moving"
> >> > - Albert Einstein
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> - Mohammad Noureldin
> ----
> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
> - Albert Einstein
>
Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi David
I read both the "official" reference [0] and the ICLA [1] (thanks
for your directions). Now based on [2] (which is the interpretation of
the SO folks for "attribution required") and based on what is
explained in both [0] & [1], I would like to discuss these three
questions:
1- Can a committer take content (code, documentation, etc...) from
sources, like SO for example, and incorporate/commit it into one of
the ASF projects repositories from which sources are released ?
2- Can a committer take content (code, documentation, etc...) from
sources, like SO for example, and incorporate/commit it into one of
the ASF projects' websites ?
3- Can a user (someone with no signed ICLA filed)/committer take
content (code, documentation, etc...) from sources, like SO for
example, and incorporate it into one of the ASF projects' mailing
lists ?
My answers (based on my understanding):
Answer -1&2: No, unless they comply with the "attributions" required
and explained in [2], which is not compatible with what is explained
in [0], or they get an OK from the content owners to take and
republish the content under the Apache License or one of the "Category
A" licenses [3]
Answer - 3:
3.1: For the user case, I would say it does not count as they are
not expected to be aware about this kind of limitations
3.2: For the committer case, it depends as in [2] (quoting):
"So let me clarify what we mean by attribution. If you republish this
content, we require that you:..."
what does "republish" mean when it comes to sending this
content on one of ASF projects' mailing lists ? If sending such
content to a mailing list is considered "republishing" then
committers MUST take this into account, if not then it is OK just to
take this content and "republish" it via that mailing list
I hope I explained what I would like to address from Henri's case into
a generic one in a better way this time, taking into account the
right/official sources
Looking forward to your feedback
[0] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html
[1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
[2] http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/06/attribution-required/
[3] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-a
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
<no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi David
>
> Thanks for your review. I see my mistake indeed, but are you referring
> only to the reference or the whole explanation in the draft ?
>
> Looking forward to your reply
>
> On May 13, 2014 6:52 AM, "David Crossley" <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Here is my draft:
>> >
>> > "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
>> > mailing lists, etc...)?"
>> >
>> > "Ans: It totally depends on the source from which the content will be
>> > taken. If the content is taken from sources (forums, mailing lists,
>> > blogs, online books, general websites, etc...) is under a license that
>> > is not compliant with the Apache License, in that case you need to get
>> > clearance about that from the owners of that content, that is make
>> > sure that they are willing to give you the content under the Apache
>> > License or one of the "Category A: Authorized Licenses" (the quoted
>> > text should appear as a link to:
>> > https://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html).
>>
>> That reference is incorrect.
>> Please see the statement at the top of that page.
>>
>> If you know of any place that still refers to that
>> misleading information, then please add an Issue
>> so that it can be rectified.
>>
>> Please read the proper reference carefully, and in conjunction
>> with the Individual Contributor License Agreement (ICLA).
>>
>> -David
>>
>> > It is highly important to get this clearance recorded as an evidence
>> > pereferrably via e-mail.
>> >
>> > Example: Can I take content from StackOverflow ? By default the
>> > answer is No, as the content published on StackOverflow (and
>> > associated sites) is under the "CC-SA license" with attribution
>> > required (the quoted text should appear as a link to the license:
>> > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), including any code.
>> > This is a strong copyleft license and as such unlikely to be in
>> > "Category A: Authorized Licenses". In this case you need the clearance
>> > as explained above.
>> > "
>> >
>> > Wdyt ?
>> >
>> > Notes: The links notes are intended to show as links on ASF website
>> >
>> > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
>> > <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Hi Henri
>> > >
>> > > Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
>> > >
>> > > On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
>> > >> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hi
>> > >>>
>> > >>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri
>> > >>> suggested is
>> > >>> a good idea
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support
>> > >>> or in
>> > >>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it
>> > >>> from this
>> > >>> abstract PoV:
>> > >>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of
>> > >>> the
>> > >>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that
>> > >>> projects
>> > >>> commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to
>> > >>> answering
>> > >>> questions/solving issues related to that project
>> > >>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content
>> > >>> back in
>> > >>> the project ?
>> > >>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any
>> > >>> other
>> > >>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project,
>> > >>> they
>> > >>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and
>> > >>> then the
>> > >>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing
>> > >>> to
>> > >>> SO as an example
>> > >>
>> > >> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
>> > >>
>> > >> Hen
>> > >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thanks
>> > - Mohammad Noureldin
>> > ----
>> > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
>> > moving"
>> > - Albert Einstein
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
--
Thanks
- Mohammad Noureldin
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi David
Thanks for your review. I see my mistake indeed, but are you referring
only to the reference or the whole explanation in the draft ?
Looking forward to your reply
On May 13, 2014 6:52 AM, "David Crossley" <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Here is my draft:
> >
> > "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
> > mailing lists, etc...)?"
> >
> > "Ans: It totally depends on the source from which the content will be
> > taken. If the content is taken from sources (forums, mailing lists,
> > blogs, online books, general websites, etc...) is under a license that
> > is not compliant with the Apache License, in that case you need to get
> > clearance about that from the owners of that content, that is make
> > sure that they are willing to give you the content under the Apache
> > License or one of the "Category A: Authorized Licenses" (the quoted
> > text should appear as a link to:
> > https://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html).
>
> That reference is incorrect.
> Please see the statement at the top of that page.
>
> If you know of any place that still refers to that
> misleading information, then please add an Issue
> so that it can be rectified.
>
> Please read the proper reference carefully, and in conjunction
> with the Individual Contributor License Agreement (ICLA).
>
> -David
>
> > It is highly important to get this clearance recorded as an evidence
> > pereferrably via e-mail.
> >
> > Example: Can I take content from StackOverflow ? By default the
> > answer is No, as the content published on StackOverflow (and
> > associated sites) is under the "CC-SA license" with attribution
> > required (the quoted text should appear as a link to the license:
> > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), including any code.
> > This is a strong copyleft license and as such unlikely to be in
> > "Category A: Authorized Licenses". In this case you need the clearance
> > as explained above.
> > "
> >
> > Wdyt ?
> >
> > Notes: The links notes are intended to show as links on ASF website
> >
> > On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
> > <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Henri
> > >
> > > Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
> > >
> > > On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
> > >> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi
> > >>>
> > >>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri
> suggested is
> > >>> a good idea
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support
> or in
> > >>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it
> from this
> > >>> abstract PoV:
> > >>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of the
> > >>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that
> projects
> > >>> commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to
> answering
> > >>> questions/solving issues related to that project
> > >>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content
> back in
> > >>> the project ?
> > >>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any other
> > >>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project,
> they
> > >>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and
> then the
> > >>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
> > >>>
> > >>> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing
> to
> > >>> SO as an example
> > >>
> > >> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
> > >>
> > >> Hen
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks
> > - Mohammad Noureldin
> > ----
> > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
> moving"
> > - Albert Einstein
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
> Hi
>
> Here is my draft:
>
> "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
> mailing lists, etc...)?"
>
> "Ans: It totally depends on the source from which the content will be
> taken. If the content is taken from sources (forums, mailing lists,
> blogs, online books, general websites, etc...) is under a license that
> is not compliant with the Apache License, in that case you need to get
> clearance about that from the owners of that content, that is make
> sure that they are willing to give you the content under the Apache
> License or one of the "Category A: Authorized Licenses" (the quoted
> text should appear as a link to:
> https://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html).
That reference is incorrect.
Please see the statement at the top of that page.
If you know of any place that still refers to that
misleading information, then please add an Issue
so that it can be rectified.
Please read the proper reference carefully, and in conjunction
with the Individual Contributor License Agreement (ICLA).
-David
> It is highly important to get this clearance recorded as an evidence
> pereferrably via e-mail.
>
> Example: Can I take content from StackOverflow ? By default the
> answer is No, as the content published on StackOverflow (and
> associated sites) is under the "CC-SA license" with attribution
> required (the quoted text should appear as a link to the license:
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), including any code.
> This is a strong copyleft license and as such unlikely to be in
> "Category A: Authorized Licenses". In this case you need the clearance
> as explained above.
> "
>
> Wdyt ?
>
> Notes: The links notes are intended to show as links on ASF website
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Henri
> >
> > Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
> >
> > On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
> >> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri suggested is
> >>> a good idea
> >>>
> >>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support or in
> >>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it from this
> >>> abstract PoV:
> >>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of the
> >>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that projects
> >>> commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to answering
> >>> questions/solving issues related to that project
> >>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content back in
> >>> the project ?
> >>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any other
> >>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project, they
> >>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and then the
> >>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
> >>>
> >>> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing to
> >>> SO as an example
> >>
> >> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
> >>
> >> Hen
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> - Mohammad Noureldin
> ----
> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
> - Albert Einstein
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi Alex
Thanks for reviewing my draft. I know it might look vague, but
thats the purpose of the draft, trying to make it as generic as
possible and together we try to get to better writing to make it
understandable
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> What is the definition of "content"? For example, I'm not a Java expert
> but have been doing Java code recently. If I don't know how to do
> something like sort an ArrayList I google it and end up at blogs and
> forums where I'll find the one or two lines I'm looking for. Do I have to
> be careful about the publication license for this sort of content? It
> might help to have that defined in this policy.
The definition of "content" includes both code and documentation.
Please read my next reply to @Andrea for more details on the same
concern and more.
>
> Thanks,
> -Alex
>
> On 5/11/14 3:29 PM, "Mohammad Noureldin" <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi
>>
>> Here is my draft:
>>
>>"Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
>>mailing lists, etc...)?"
>>
>>"Ans: It totally depends on the source from which the content will be
>>taken. If the content is taken from sources (forums, mailing lists,
>>blogs, online books, general websites, etc...) is under a license that
>>is not compliant with the Apache License, in that case you need to get
>>clearance about that from the owners of that content, that is make
>>sure that they are willing to give you the content under the Apache
>>License or one of the "Category A: Authorized Licenses" (the quoted
>>text should appear as a link to:
>>https://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html).
>>It is highly important to get this clearance recorded as an evidence
>>pereferrably via e-mail.
>>
>>Example: Can I take content from StackOverflow ? By default the
>>answer is No, as the content published on StackOverflow (and
>>associated sites) is under the "CC-SA license" with attribution
>>required (the quoted text should appear as a link to the license:
>>http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), including any code.
>>This is a strong copyleft license and as such unlikely to be in
>>"Category A: Authorized Licenses". In this case you need the clearance
>>as explained above.
>>"
>>
>>Wdyt ?
>>
>>Notes: The links notes are intended to show as links on ASF website
>>
>>On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
>><no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Henri
>>>
>>> Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
>>>
>>> On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
>>>> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri suggested
>>>>>is
>>>>> a good idea
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support
>>>>>or in
>>>>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it from
>>>>>this
>>>>> abstract PoV:
>>>>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of the
>>>>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that
>>>>>projects
>>>>> commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to
>>>>>answering
>>>>> questions/solving issues related to that project
>>>>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content
>>>>>back in
>>>>> the project ?
>>>>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any other
>>>>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project,
>>>>>they
>>>>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and
>>>>>then the
>>>>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
>>>>>
>>>>> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing
>>>>>to
>>>>> SO as an example
>>>>
>>>> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Thanks
>>- Mohammad Noureldin
>>----
>>"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
>>- Albert Einstein
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
--
Thanks
- Mohammad Noureldin
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein
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Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
What is the definition of "content"? For example, I'm not a Java expert
but have been doing Java code recently. If I don't know how to do
something like sort an ArrayList I google it and end up at blogs and
forums where I'll find the one or two lines I'm looking for. Do I have to
be careful about the publication license for this sort of content? It
might help to have that defined in this policy.
Thanks,
-Alex
On 5/11/14 3:29 PM, "Mohammad Noureldin" <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi
>
> Here is my draft:
>
>"Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
>mailing lists, etc...)?"
>
>"Ans: It totally depends on the source from which the content will be
>taken. If the content is taken from sources (forums, mailing lists,
>blogs, online books, general websites, etc...) is under a license that
>is not compliant with the Apache License, in that case you need to get
>clearance about that from the owners of that content, that is make
>sure that they are willing to give you the content under the Apache
>License or one of the "Category A: Authorized Licenses" (the quoted
>text should appear as a link to:
>https://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html).
>It is highly important to get this clearance recorded as an evidence
>pereferrably via e-mail.
>
>Example: Can I take content from StackOverflow ? By default the
>answer is No, as the content published on StackOverflow (and
>associated sites) is under the "CC-SA license" with attribution
>required (the quoted text should appear as a link to the license:
>http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), including any code.
>This is a strong copyleft license and as such unlikely to be in
>"Category A: Authorized Licenses". In this case you need the clearance
>as explained above.
>"
>
>Wdyt ?
>
>Notes: The links notes are intended to show as links on ASF website
>
>On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
><no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Henri
>>
>> Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
>>
>> On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
>>> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri suggested
>>>>is
>>>> a good idea
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support
>>>>or in
>>>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it from
>>>>this
>>>> abstract PoV:
>>>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of the
>>>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that
>>>>projects
>>>> commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to
>>>>answering
>>>> questions/solving issues related to that project
>>>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content
>>>>back in
>>>> the project ?
>>>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any other
>>>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project,
>>>>they
>>>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and
>>>>then the
>>>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
>>>>
>>>> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing
>>>>to
>>>> SO as an example
>>>
>>> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>
>
>
>--
>Thanks
>- Mohammad Noureldin
>----
>"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
>- Albert Einstein
>
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Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
I know that the mailing list services had problems, but it is solved by now
So I am still looking forward any feedback
On May 16, 2014 7:19 PM, "Mohammad Noureldin" <no...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Andrea
>
> Again thanks a lot for your feedback
>
> On May 14, 2014 9:34 AM, "Andrea Pehiscetti" <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/05/2014 Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
> >>>> mailing lists, etc...)?"
> >>>
> >>> Both "use" and "content" are quite vague. OpenOffice, for example,
> still
> >>> hosts on the site and wiki old documentation that is not under ALv2. We
> >>> don't include it in releases, of course
> >>
> >> Under which license that documentation is ? If you look at [0], you
> >> will see at the footer "Copyright © 2011-2012 The Apache Software
> >> Foundation Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0" ...
> >> [0] http://openoffice.apache.org/
> >
> >
> > That site is new. Everything there is under ALv2. I was referring to
> legacy content on https://wiki.openoffice.org/ and some pre-Apache
> portions of the users portal http://www.openoffice.org/ ; licenses
> include CC-BY 3, see
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters
> >
>
> In case of wiki.openoffice.org it is mentioned that the content is
> licensed under the ALv2 unless otherwise
>
> For the user guide website it points to (
> http://www.openoffice.org/license.html) which is not as restrictive as
> the SO one as stated in my earlier email
> >
> >> Maybe I widened the scope more than we want ? Maybe, but I want to
> >> address it in a way that is not related to a certain source of content
> >> or certain license, otherwise we will end adding a different Q&A for
> >> each of these sources
> >
> >
> > While not being a lawyer at all, I still believe that it is too broad to
> adopt the same policy for the case of:
> > - Content that is released (as part of the officially releases sources)
> > - Content that is somewhere in SVN (like, test documents allowing free
> redistribution but not licensed under ALv2)
> > - Content that is provided as answers to mailing list messages (that may
> link to, or quote, an external site)
> >
> > But I may be totally wrong too! I can't bring any further contributions
> to this discussion other than the "real life" case I described.
> >
>
> True me neither, that's why I would like others to *please* add more
> feedback if possible or just ask us to stop this discussion if it does not
> make any sense and why
>
> NOTE: it is mentioned that I'm case help needed to ask the Legal IPMC and
> we are doing so but we still didn't get to any conclusion for this
> discussion. Please help.
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andrea.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
>
Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi Andrea
Again thanks a lot for your feedback
On May 14, 2014 9:34 AM, "Andrea Pehiscetti" <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 12/05/2014 Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>
>>> Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
>>>> mailing lists, etc...)?"
>>>
>>> Both "use" and "content" are quite vague. OpenOffice, for example, still
>>> hosts on the site and wiki old documentation that is not under ALv2. We
>>> don't include it in releases, of course
>>
>> Under which license that documentation is ? If you look at [0], you
>> will see at the footer "Copyright © 2011-2012 The Apache Software
>> Foundation Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0" ...
>> [0] http://openoffice.apache.org/
>
>
> That site is new. Everything there is under ALv2. I was referring to
legacy content on https://wiki.openoffice.org/ and some pre-Apache portions
of the users portal http://www.openoffice.org/ ; licenses include CC-BY 3,
see
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters
>
In case of wiki.openoffice.org it is mentioned that the content is licensed
under the ALv2 unless otherwise
For the user guide website it points to (
http://www.openoffice.org/license.html) which is not as restrictive as the
SO one as stated in my earlier email
>
>> Maybe I widened the scope more than we want ? Maybe, but I want to
>> address it in a way that is not related to a certain source of content
>> or certain license, otherwise we will end adding a different Q&A for
>> each of these sources
>
>
> While not being a lawyer at all, I still believe that it is too broad to
adopt the same policy for the case of:
> - Content that is released (as part of the officially releases sources)
> - Content that is somewhere in SVN (like, test documents allowing free
redistribution but not licensed under ALv2)
> - Content that is provided as answers to mailing list messages (that may
link to, or quote, an external site)
>
> But I may be totally wrong too! I can't bring any further contributions
to this discussion other than the "real life" case I described.
>
True me neither, that's why I would like others to *please* add more
feedback if possible or just ask us to stop this discussion if it does not
make any sense and why
NOTE: it is mentioned that I'm case help needed to ask the Legal IPMC and
we are doing so but we still didn't get to any conclusion for this
discussion. Please help.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 12/05/2014 Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
>>> "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
>>> mailing lists, etc...)?"
>> Both "use" and "content" are quite vague. OpenOffice, for example, still
>> hosts on the site and wiki old documentation that is not under ALv2. We
>> don't include it in releases, of course
> Under which license that documentation is ? If you look at [0], you
> will see at the footer "Copyright © 2011-2012 The Apache Software
> Foundation Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0" ...
> [0] http://openoffice.apache.org/
That site is new. Everything there is under ALv2. I was referring to
legacy content on https://wiki.openoffice.org/ and some pre-Apache
portions of the users portal http://www.openoffice.org/ ; licenses
include CC-BY 3, see
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters
> Maybe I widened the scope more than we want ? Maybe, but I want to
> address it in a way that is not related to a certain source of content
> or certain license, otherwise we will end adding a different Q&A for
> each of these sources
While not being a lawyer at all, I still believe that it is too broad to
adopt the same policy for the case of:
- Content that is released (as part of the officially releases sources)
- Content that is somewhere in SVN (like, test documents allowing free
redistribution but not licensed under ALv2)
- Content that is provided as answers to mailing list messages (that may
link to, or quote, an external site)
But I may be totally wrong too! I can't bring any further contributions
to this discussion other than the "real life" case I described.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi Andrea
Thanks for reviewing my draft, please read my reply inline...
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
>>
>> "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
>> mailing lists, etc...)?"
>
>
> Both "use" and "content" are quite vague. OpenOffice, for example, still
> hosts on the site and wiki old documentation that is not under ALv2. We
> don't include it releases, of course, and I believe this is the key
> difference (and this is probably the reason why this thread initially
> focused on "code" rather than generically "content").
Under which license that documentation is ? If you look at [0], you
will see at the footer "Copyright © 2011-2012 The Apache Software
Foundation Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0" that means
that the content is under that indicated license even if you don't
include it in releases
True the initial intention by Henri was more focused on the usage of
code in an ASF project, but we are trying to take the chance to
address the question in a general way, which is:
"Taking content, whether code and/or documentation, and incorporate it
in an ASF project, whether this content will be included in releases
or hosted on any of the ASF servers, as part of the web site for
example"
Allow me to add more details on what I was trying to address when I
wrote that draft:
1- Address any type of content (code, documentation, etc...). Code is
not the only thing that can be copy pasted from other locations. Code
is not the only content that is licensed.
ex 1.1: If a question has been asked on SO about one of the ASF
projects and there was a really good answer to it, is it OK for a
committer to copy paste the question and answer and add it to the FAQ
section of the website of that project ? (notice here that the
contents of the ASF project's website are not included in the release,
but the content is licensed under the Apache License while the content
that was copy pasted is not, on the contrary it is under a license
that is not compatible with the Apache License)
ex 1.2: Imagine the same scenario as in 1.1 but instead of copy
pasting it to the web site the committer/user copy pasted the answer
to the mailing list as a reply to the same/similar question on the
dev@ or users@. Is that OK ? in this case I am not really sure
(someone corrects me if I am wrong please), but I would say No, as the
contents of these mailing lists are publicly available and anything
contributed to these mailing lists is assumed to be owned by the ASF
and under the Apache License
2- Address the different destinations of this content when it comes to
make it available via any of the ASF related channels, like mailing
lists, code repositories (whether for code or documentation) and ASF
hosted web sites
3- And for sure addressing the obvious case in which someone commits,
whether directly or via a patch, content to one of the ASF projects
Maybe I widened the scope more than we want ? Maybe, but I want to
address it in a way that is not related to a certain source of content
or certain license, otherwise we will end adding a different Q&A for
each of these sources
Would someone please comment on my reply so I update my draft accordingly ?
Looking forward to your feedback
[0] http://openoffice.apache.org/
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
--
Thanks
- Mohammad Noureldin
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein
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Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Mohammad Noureldin wrote:
> "Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
> mailing lists, etc...)?"
Both "use" and "content" are quite vague. OpenOffice, for example, still
hosts on the site and wiki old documentation that is not under ALv2. We
don't include it releases, of course, and I believe this is the key
difference (and this is probably the reason why this thread initially
focused on "code" rather than generically "content").
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Here is my draft:
"Qn: Can an Apache project use content from non ASF sources (forums,
mailing lists, etc...)?"
"Ans: It totally depends on the source from which the content will be
taken. If the content is taken from sources (forums, mailing lists,
blogs, online books, general websites, etc...) is under a license that
is not compliant with the Apache License, in that case you need to get
clearance about that from the owners of that content, that is make
sure that they are willing to give you the content under the Apache
License or one of the "Category A: Authorized Licenses" (the quoted
text should appear as a link to:
https://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html).
It is highly important to get this clearance recorded as an evidence
pereferrably via e-mail.
Example: Can I take content from StackOverflow ? By default the
answer is No, as the content published on StackOverflow (and
associated sites) is under the "CC-SA license" with attribution
required (the quoted text should appear as a link to the license:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), including any code.
This is a strong copyleft license and as such unlikely to be in
"Category A: Authorized Licenses". In this case you need the clearance
as explained above.
"
Wdyt ?
Notes: The links notes are intended to show as links on ASF website
On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
<no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Henri
>
> Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
>
> On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin
>> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri suggested is
>>> a good idea
>>>
>>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support or in
>>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it from this
>>> abstract PoV:
>>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of the
>>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that projects
>>> commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to answering
>>> questions/solving issues related to that project
>>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content back in
>>> the project ?
>>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any other
>>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project, they
>>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and then the
>>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
>>>
>>> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing to
>>> SO as an example
>>
>> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
>>
>> Hen
>>
--
Thanks
- Mohammad Noureldin
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein
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Re: Using content from StackOverflow
Posted by Mohammad Noureldin <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi Henri
Will draft one today and send it as a reply here
On May 11, 2014 4:21 AM, "Henri Yandell" <he...@yandell.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mohammad Noureldin <
> nour.mohammad@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> From what I read in this discussion I believe what Henri suggested is
>> a good idea
>>
>> I don't think it has anything to do with using SO for users support or in
>> place of users mailing list or not at the end you can look at it from this
>> abstract PoV:
>> There is some content that has been posted on SO regarding one of the
>> Apache projects, this content might have been posted by one of that
>> projects commiters or others who might be active on SO when it comes to
>> answering questions/solving issues related to that project
>> What happens if the one of the commiters want to use that content back in
>> the project ?
>> The answer is provided in Henri's suggestion and it is like any other
>> content that the commiters may like to copy paste in their project, they
>> need to make sure of the licensing, or ask if they don't know, and then the
>> answer that Henri provided will give some help
>>
>> I would actually take this question to its general case and pointing to
>> SO as an example
>>
> Do you have proposed text for a general case?
>
> Hen
>
>