Confluence / Wiki (was SVN?)

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Geronimo requested we install Confluence at the end of September. No one was against doing it per se, but we've had some support issues with Atlassian regarding JIRA, and the thread died. It might be too soon to bring it up again. But, if JIRA keeps humming along, it would just be a matter of time. 

Of course, if we want to host our own instance somewhere, that's up to us. My firm would be happy to help with any out of pocket costs. (But sadly we lack an outward-facing server that could host it.)

My team may also be installing JIRA and Confluence for our own use, which would make me the admin, and give me some skills to share with infrastructure. :)

In the meantime, I'll see about getting an area on the Apache Wiki setup. 

-Ted.

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:18:53 -0700, Larry Meadors wrote:
>�+1 for Confluence.
>
>�That is a nice looking tool.
>
>>>>�Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>�12/15/04 11:00 AM
>>>>�>>>
>>>>
>�+1 on wiki
>
>�On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:39:18 -0700, Clinton Begin
>�<cl...@gmail.com>�wrote:
>>�+1 for Confluence. �I've been using it for a while, it's not
>>�perfect, but it's better than most.
>>
>>�Cheers,
>>�Clinton
>>
>>�On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:15:15 +0100, Gilles Bayon
>>�<gi...@laposte.net>�wrote:
>>>�+1 for Wiki
>>>�I will voted for Confluence (there's Open Source Project
>>>�License)
>>>
>>>�If you want to restructure iBATIS.NET repository at WUSH.NET,
>>>�you
>>>
>�could do
>>>�it
>>>
>>>�`-- cs/
>>>�| |-- branches/
>>>�| |-- tags/
>>>�| |-- trunk/
>>>�| |- ibatisnet1
>>>
>>>�in the trunk directory, could you put the current source and
>>>�delete ibatisnet1.
>>>
>>>
>>>�----- Original Message -----
>>>�From: "Ted Husted" <hu...@apache.org>
>>>�To: <ib...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>�Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:38 PM
>>>�Subject: Re: [Ibatisdb-developer] SVN?
>>>
>>>�OK, I will keep whittling away at the other
>>>�Incubator/Infrastructure
>>>
>�tasks,
>>>�including setting up a wiki (assuming we want one), until only
>>>�the
>>>
>�repo is
>>>�left.
>>>
>>>�I'll also restructure the iBATIS.NET repository at WUSH.NET, so
>>>�that
>>>
>�it's
>>>�ready to merge. (Gilles, chime in now if I should hold off.)
>>>
>>>�Another alternative might be to try and combine the CVS and SVN
>>>
>�repositories
>>>�at WUSH.NET and then port them to Apache. Michael Ching at
>>>�WUSH.NET
>>>
>�provides
>>>�outstanding service. With notice, I'm sure he'd agree to do it
>>>
>�overnight.
>>>�Then, we'd just have the one repository to hand over to the
>>>
>�(overworked)
>>>�Apache Infrastructure team.
>>>
>>>�-Ted.
>>>
>>>�On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:36:37 -0700, Clinton Begin wrote (on the
>>>
>�ibatisdb
>>>�list):
>>>>�There's no ETA for this. It's low priority, as the CVS
>>>>�repository is publicly available now, and it works. We'll
>>>>�make the move to SVN at a convenient time (i.e. once some
>>>>�popular feature requests have settled down).
>>>>
>>>>�Cheers,
>>>>�Clinton
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>�On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:59:56 +0100, Marko Kocic
>>>>�<ma...@gmail.com>�wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>�When is new subversion repository going to be available?

Re: Confluence / Wiki (was SVN?)

[Clinton Begin <cl...@gmail.com>]

I'm fine with Moin Moin.  A wiki is a wiki.  They're all ugly in their
own ways.  :-)

Content is the key to a good wiki.

To begin with, I'd love to see at least the following 4 sections:

1) FAQ

2) Quick Docs:  For documentation that isn't quite done, or docs that
have yet to be put in the real rich-text documentation.  This should
help with some of our missing documentation (currently listed in the
TODO text file included with the distribution).  Can be used for
eventual promotion to real docs.  We can also use it to quickly add
any docs contributed by the community (copy paste text).

3) Database specific solutions:  Sybase Stored Proc UNCHAINED stuff,
DB2/WAS transaction configuration, Oracle LOBs etc.

4) 3rd party contributions and external resource links.  

All of this stuff is more volatile than either of the current
websites.  The wiki focus is in the name of productivity, timeliness
and relevance.  It should be more up to date than any of our
resources, with the exception of the mailing list.

Thoughts?  What would everyone else like to see?

Cheers,
Clinton


On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:31:30 -0500, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Here's where we left off on the infrastructure thread:
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> From: "Pier Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>
> To: Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com>
> Cc: <in...@apache.org>
> Sent: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:54:39 +0000
> Subject: Re: Request for Confluence Installation
> 
> > On 27 Dec 2004, at 19:56, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >
> >> Serge raised this question came up recently with respect to
> >> JAMES, and I'll give you the same response I gave him.
> >>
> >> I would be -1 to use Confluence for content delivery, and I
> >> suspect that
> >> others would be as well.  My primary reason is that we serve over
> >> 4TB of
> >> data per month, and we get considerable help from Conditional-Get
> >> and high
> >> performance serving of static resources by httpd.  Confluence,
> >> and the Wiki
> >> in general, preclude the latter, and I don't know how well any of
> >> them play with the former.
> >>
> >
> > Well, there are some tricks you can use... Anyhow, I agree 100%
> > that it shall not be used for content delivery across the board.
> >
> > But it's a decent wiki, indeed... If people want it, we shall give
> > it to them! :-D
> >
> >
> > Pier
> 
> So, we wouldn't be able to use it for the top-level website, but we could use it to draft documentation, iron out development discussions, and maybe blogs and such.
> 
> I'm using it at the day-job now, and it's a pleasure to use. I'm seriously considering using it for my own website, which I otherwise never have time to update. :)
> 
> If we'd be good with restricting the use of Confluence to "back-end" conversations, then I'll try to push this along at the infrastructure level.
> 
> I'm also going to suggest to Atlassian that the export be upgraded so that we could get real XML content out of Confluence. That would open the door to running it through XLST to build a static site from the wiki content. Right now, it exports HTML and PDF well enough, but the XML is just a wrapper around the wiki markup. With a better XML export, I could see using Confluence to author text books.
> 
> I'm also looking around for some third-party Confluence hosting, in case we don't want to wait for infrastructure. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know.
> 
> In the meantime, I'll start fleshing out the wiki, swap the website skin, and see to our incubator checklist.
> 
> -Ted.
> 
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:48:04 -0500, Ted Husted wrote:
> > For now, I  went ahead and setup a wiki space for us:
> >
> > [http://wiki.apache.org/ibatis]
> >
> > The ASF is using [http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ MoinMoin] right
> > now, but I'll follow up on Confluence.
> >
> > I started using Confluence (and JIRA) with my own project this
> > week, and, (yes Virginia,) there are many useful enhancements over
> > something like MoinMoin.
> >
> > As to what we have now, see also
> > [http://wiki.apache.org/general/WikiFrequentlyAskedQuestions].
> >
> > Next, I'll change the skin on the starter website, as discussed,
> > and cut in a link to the wiki (being sure the default page is
> > updated first!), and see about upgrading our content.
> >
> > -Ted.
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:31:23 -0500, Ted Husted wrote:
> >
> >> Geronimo requested we install Confluence at the end of September.
> >>  No one was against doing it per se, but we've had some support  
> >> issues with Atlassian regarding JIRA, and the thread died. It
> >> might  be too soon to bring it up again. But, if JIRA keeps
> >> humming along,  it would just be a matter of time.
> >>
> >> Of course, if we want to host our own instance somewhere, that's
> >> up  to us. My firm would be happy to help with any out of pocket
> >> costs.  (But sadly we lack an outward-facing server that could
> >> host it.)
> >>
> >> My team may also be installing JIRA and Confluence for our own
> >> use,  which would make me the admin, and give me some skills to
> >> share  with infrastructure. :)
> >>
> >> In the meantime, I'll see about getting an area on the Apache
> >> Wiki  setup.
> >>
> >> -Ted.
> 
>

Re: Confluence / Wiki (was SVN?)

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Here's where we left off on the infrastructure thread: 

--- Original Message ---
From: "Pier Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>
To: Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com>
Cc: <in...@apache.org>
Sent: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:54:39 +0000
Subject: Re: Request for Confluence Installation

>�On 27 Dec 2004, at 19:56, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
>>�Serge raised this question came up recently with respect to
>>�JAMES, and I'll give you the same response I gave him.
>>
>>�I would be -1 to use Confluence for content delivery, and I
>>�suspect that
>>�others would be as well. �My primary reason is that we serve over
>>�4TB of
>>�data per month, and we get considerable help from Conditional-Get
>>�and high
>>�performance serving of static resources by httpd. �Confluence,
>>�and the Wiki
>>�in general, preclude the latter, and I don't know how well any of
>>�them play with the former.
>>
>
>�Well, there are some tricks you can use... Anyhow, I agree 100%
>�that it shall not be used for content delivery across the board.
>
>�But it's a decent wiki, indeed... If people want it, we shall give
>�it to them! :-D
>
>
>�Pier

So, we wouldn't be able to use it for the top-level website, but we could use it to draft documentation, iron out development discussions, and maybe blogs and such. 

I'm using it at the day-job now, and it's a pleasure to use. I'm seriously considering using it for my own website, which I otherwise never have time to update. :)

If we'd be good with restricting the use of Confluence to "back-end" conversations, then I'll try to push this along at the infrastructure level. 

I'm also going to suggest to Atlassian that the export be upgraded so that we could get real XML content out of Confluence. That would open the door to running it through XLST to build a static site from the wiki content. Right now, it exports HTML and PDF well enough, but the XML is just a wrapper around the wiki markup. With a better XML export, I could see using Confluence to author text books. 

I'm also looking around for some third-party Confluence hosting, in case we don't want to wait for infrastructure. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know.

In the meantime, I'll start fleshing out the wiki, swap the website skin, and see to our incubator checklist. 

-Ted. 


On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:48:04 -0500, Ted Husted wrote:
>�For now, I �went ahead and setup a wiki space for us:
>
>�[http://wiki.apache.org/ibatis]
>
>�The ASF is using [http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ MoinMoin] right
>�now, but I'll follow up on Confluence.
>
>�I started using Confluence (and JIRA) with my own project this
>�week, and, (yes Virginia,) there are many useful enhancements over
>�something like MoinMoin.
>
>�As to what we have now, see also
>�[http://wiki.apache.org/general/WikiFrequentlyAskedQuestions].
>
>�Next, I'll change the skin on the starter website, as discussed,
>�and cut in a link to the wiki (being sure the default page is
>�updated first!), and see about upgrading our content.
>
>�-Ted.
>
>�On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:31:23 -0500, Ted Husted wrote:
>
>>�Geronimo requested we install Confluence at the end of September.
>>��No one was against doing it per se, but we've had some support �
>>�issues with Atlassian regarding JIRA, and the thread died. It
>>�might �be too soon to bring it up again. But, if JIRA keeps
>>�humming along, �it would just be a matter of time.
>>
>>�Of course, if we want to host our own instance somewhere, that's
>>�up �to us. My firm would be happy to help with any out of pocket
>>�costs. �(But sadly we lack an outward-facing server that could
>>�host it.)
>>
>>�My team may also be installing JIRA and Confluence for our own
>>�use, �which would make me the admin, and give me some skills to
>>�share �with infrastructure. :)
>>
>>�In the meantime, I'll see about getting an area on the Apache
>>�Wiki �setup.
>>
>>�-Ted.

Re: Confluence / Wiki (was SVN?)

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

For now, I  went ahead and setup a wiki space for us:

[http://wiki.apache.org/ibatis]

The ASF is using [http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ MoinMoin] right now, but I'll follow up on Confluence. 

I started using Confluence (and JIRA) with my own project this week, and, (yes Virginia,) there are many useful enhancements over something like MoinMoin. 

As to what we have now, see also [http://wiki.apache.org/general/WikiFrequentlyAskedQuestions].

Next, I'll change the skin on the starter website, as discussed, and cut in a link to the wiki (being sure the default page is updated first!), and see about upgrading our content.

-Ted.

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:31:23 -0500, Ted Husted wrote:
>�Geronimo requested we install Confluence at the end of September.
>�No one was against doing it per se, but we've had some support
>�issues with Atlassian regarding JIRA, and the thread died. It might
>�be too soon to bring it up again. But, if JIRA keeps humming along,
>�it would just be a matter of time.
>
>�Of course, if we want to host our own instance somewhere, that's up
>�to us. My firm would be happy to help with any out of pocket costs.
>�(But sadly we lack an outward-facing server that could host it.)
>
>�My team may also be installing JIRA and Confluence for our own use,
>�which would make me the admin, and give me some skills to share
>�with infrastructure. :)
>
>�In the meantime, I'll see about getting an area on the Apache Wiki
>�setup.
>
>�-Ted.