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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com> on 2024/05/04 19:24:58 UTC

Remove the IRC channels

Hi,

I’m personally not an IRC user but I try to keep an eye on the IRC logs.
For personal reasons I haven’t had time to do since the start of the year
but I spent some time tonight to browse the archives.

Since January there were somewhere between 5 and 10 persons asking
questions and NO ONE got a timely reply. On the other hand we have had a
slow but steady stream of questions on users@ and they have received
replies from different members of the community.

I think the lack of replies on IRC reflects badly on the community. I’m not
able to put any energy into following the IRC channels and I cannot ask
anyone else either. But I think the mailing lists could absorb these
questions and give timely answers.

For this reason, I suggest that we discontinue the IRC channels (remove
them from libera.chat) or at least change the topic to indicate that they
are no longer “official” and to refer all questions to the mailing lists.
The website should of course be updated accordingly.

Kind regards

Daniel Sahlberg

Re: Remove the IRC channels

Posted by Nathan Hartman <ha...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 12:35 PM Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Den sön 5 maj 2024 kl 11:42 skrev Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org>:
>
>> On Sun, May 05, 2024 at 11:20:28AM +0200, Daniel Sahlberg wrote:
>> > What about this new topic for #svn?
>> >
>> > [[[
>> > The Apache® Subversion® version control system (
>> > https://subversion.apache.org/) | Read the book:
>> http://www.svnbook.org/ |
>> > FAQ: https://subversion.apache.org/faq.html | This channel has limited
>> use,
>> > if you have questions please ask on the mailing list
>> > https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#users-ml
>> > ]]]
>> >
>> > And for #svn-dev:
>> >
>> > [[[
>> > Development of Apache® Subversion® (https://subversion.apache.org/) |
>> This
>> > channel has limited use, if you have questions please ask on the mailing
>> > list https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#dev-ml
>> > ]]]
>>
>> Reads well. Fine with me!
>>
>
> Thank you, and also thanks to Nathan for reviewing the changes to the
> website.
>
> I have updated the topics as above and I've also merged the website
> changes in r1917520.
>
> I believe that is everything, but if you find something else, just let me
> know.
>
> Kind regards,
> Daniel
>


Thanks Daniel for taking care of it and to Stefan for your thoughts and
review.

Another advantage of this change is that it removes some other
administrative headaches like restarting the CommitBot when it freezes, etc.

Cheers,
Nathan

Re: Remove the IRC channels

Posted by Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>.
Den sön 5 maj 2024 kl 11:42 skrev Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org>:

> On Sun, May 05, 2024 at 11:20:28AM +0200, Daniel Sahlberg wrote:
> > What about this new topic for #svn?
> >
> > [[[
> > The Apache® Subversion® version control system (
> > https://subversion.apache.org/) | Read the book: http://www.svnbook.org/
> |
> > FAQ: https://subversion.apache.org/faq.html | This channel has limited
> use,
> > if you have questions please ask on the mailing list
> > https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#users-ml
> > ]]]
> >
> > And for #svn-dev:
> >
> > [[[
> > Development of Apache® Subversion® (https://subversion.apache.org/) |
> This
> > channel has limited use, if you have questions please ask on the mailing
> > list https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#dev-ml
> > ]]]
>
> Reads well. Fine with me!
>

Thank you, and also thanks to Nathan for reviewing the changes to the
website.

I have updated the topics as above and I've also merged the website changes
in r1917520.

I believe that is everything, but if you find something else, just let me
know.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Re: Remove the IRC channels

Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org>.
On Sun, May 05, 2024 at 11:20:28AM +0200, Daniel Sahlberg wrote:
> What about this new topic for #svn?
> 
> [[[
> The Apache® Subversion® version control system (
> https://subversion.apache.org/) | Read the book: http://www.svnbook.org/ |
> FAQ: https://subversion.apache.org/faq.html | This channel has limited use,
> if you have questions please ask on the mailing list
> https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#users-ml
> ]]]
> 
> And for #svn-dev:
> 
> [[[
> Development of Apache® Subversion® (https://subversion.apache.org/) | This
> channel has limited use, if you have questions please ask on the mailing
> list https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#dev-ml
> ]]]

Reads well. Fine with me!

Re: Remove the IRC channels

Posted by Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>.
sön 5 maj 2024 kl. 05:57 skrev Nathan Hartman <ha...@gmail.com>:

> On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 4:15 PM Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, May 04, 2024 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Daniel Sahlberg wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I’m personally not an IRC user but I try to keep an eye on the IRC logs.
>> > For personal reasons I haven’t had time to do since the start of the
>> year
>> > but I spent some time tonight to browse the archives.
>> >
>> > Since January there were somewhere between 5 and 10 persons asking
>> > questions and NO ONE got a timely reply. On the other hand we have had a
>> > slow but steady stream of questions on users@ and they have received
>> > replies from different members of the community.
>> >
>> > I think the lack of replies on IRC reflects badly on the community. I’m
>> not
>> > able to put any energy into following the IRC channels and I cannot ask
>> > anyone else either. But I think the mailing lists could absorb these
>> > questions and give timely answers.
>> >
>> > For this reason, I suggest that we discontinue the IRC channels (remove
>> > them from libera.chat) or at least change the topic to indicate that
>> they
>> > are no longer “official” and to refer all questions to the mailing
>> lists.
>> > The website should of course be updated accordingly.
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> >
>> > Daniel Sahlberg
>>
>> I am not sure whether outright removing (aka "dropping") our Libera
>> channels from ChanServ is a good idea. Anyone could re-register a
>> dropped channel and squat on the name and/or impersonate the project.
>>
>> Given this, I suppose the #svn users channel should be marked as
>> unmaintained in the topic. Redirecting questions to the mailing
>> list via the topic line should work well enough.
>>
>> The #svn-dev channel might still be useful for quick communication
>> during bursts of increased project activity. I would keep it around.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Stefan
>
>
>
> I'd like to keep the IRC channels, at the very least so that someone won't
> squat on the name as already mentioned, but I agree that we should update
> the channel topics to direct user questions to the mailing list where they
> are much more likely to receive a timely response.
>
> I'd also recommend to update our text on the website to say that the IRC
> channels exist but the mailing lists are the more recommended way to
> communicate.
>
> Cheers,
> Nathan
>

Thanks both of you, valid points and valuable input!

What about this new topic for #svn?

[[[
The Apache® Subversion® version control system (
https://subversion.apache.org/) | Read the book: http://www.svnbook.org/ |
FAQ: https://subversion.apache.org/faq.html | This channel has limited use,
if you have questions please ask on the mailing list
https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#users-ml
]]]

And for #svn-dev:

[[[
Development of Apache® Subversion® (https://subversion.apache.org/) | This
channel has limited use, if you have questions please ask on the mailing
list https://subversion.apache.org/mailing-lists#dev-ml
]]]

I've made a first draft of website updates to the staging site in r1917512.
(At the same time, I saw that the svnforum.org site no longer is a forum,
so I removed that reference in r1917511).

Kind regards,
Daniel

Re: Remove the IRC channels

Posted by Nathan Hartman <ha...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 4:15 PM Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Sat, May 04, 2024 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Daniel Sahlberg wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I’m personally not an IRC user but I try to keep an eye on the IRC logs.
> > For personal reasons I haven’t had time to do since the start of the year
> > but I spent some time tonight to browse the archives.
> >
> > Since January there were somewhere between 5 and 10 persons asking
> > questions and NO ONE got a timely reply. On the other hand we have had a
> > slow but steady stream of questions on users@ and they have received
> > replies from different members of the community.
> >
> > I think the lack of replies on IRC reflects badly on the community. I’m
> not
> > able to put any energy into following the IRC channels and I cannot ask
> > anyone else either. But I think the mailing lists could absorb these
> > questions and give timely answers.
> >
> > For this reason, I suggest that we discontinue the IRC channels (remove
> > them from libera.chat) or at least change the topic to indicate that they
> > are no longer “official” and to refer all questions to the mailing lists.
> > The website should of course be updated accordingly.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Daniel Sahlberg
>
> I am not sure whether outright removing (aka "dropping") our Libera
> channels from ChanServ is a good idea. Anyone could re-register a
> dropped channel and squat on the name and/or impersonate the project.
>
> Given this, I suppose the #svn users channel should be marked as
> unmaintained in the topic. Redirecting questions to the mailing
> list via the topic line should work well enough.
>
> The #svn-dev channel might still be useful for quick communication
> during bursts of increased project activity. I would keep it around.
>
> Cheers,
> Stefan



I'd like to keep the IRC channels, at the very least so that someone won't
squat on the name as already mentioned, but I agree that we should update
the channel topics to direct user questions to the mailing list where they
are much more likely to receive a timely response.

I'd also recommend to update our text on the website to say that the IRC
channels exist but the mailing lists are the more recommended way to
communicate.

Cheers,
Nathan

Re: Remove the IRC channels

Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org>.
On Sat, May 04, 2024 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Daniel Sahlberg wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I’m personally not an IRC user but I try to keep an eye on the IRC logs.
> For personal reasons I haven’t had time to do since the start of the year
> but I spent some time tonight to browse the archives.
> 
> Since January there were somewhere between 5 and 10 persons asking
> questions and NO ONE got a timely reply. On the other hand we have had a
> slow but steady stream of questions on users@ and they have received
> replies from different members of the community.
> 
> I think the lack of replies on IRC reflects badly on the community. I’m not
> able to put any energy into following the IRC channels and I cannot ask
> anyone else either. But I think the mailing lists could absorb these
> questions and give timely answers.
> 
> For this reason, I suggest that we discontinue the IRC channels (remove
> them from libera.chat) or at least change the topic to indicate that they
> are no longer “official” and to refer all questions to the mailing lists.
> The website should of course be updated accordingly.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Daniel Sahlberg

I am not sure whether outright removing (aka "dropping") our Libera
channels from ChanServ is a good idea. Anyone could re-register a
dropped channel and squat on the name and/or impersonate the project.

Given this, I suppose the #svn users channel should be marked as
unmaintained in the topic. Redirecting questions to the mailing
list via the topic line should work well enough.

The #svn-dev channel might still be useful for quick communication
during bursts of increased project activity. I would keep it around.

Cheers,
Stefan