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Posted to user@cassandra.apache.org by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> on 2009/05/14 05:28:19 UTC
Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
find more so the release is even more solid." :)
I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
Thanks! And it is probably worth repeating that although I am the
only active committer at the moment, this represents the work of many
people, especially (alphabetically :) Eric Evans, Johan Oskarsson, Jun
Rao, and Sandeep Tata -- hopefully we will get more committers from
this group soon. Lots of others also contributed patches, bug
reports, and testing.
-Jonathan
On May 14, 2009, at 8:34 AM, Jonas Bonér <jo...@jonasboner.com> wrote:
> Awesome job Jonathan.
> Just getting into the codebase so fast is admirable.
> Churning out code like this (and releases) is amazing. Keep it up.
>
> 2009/5/14 Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>:
>> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
>> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>>
>> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
>> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>>
>> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
>> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
>> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jonas Bonér
>
> twitter: @jboner
> blog: http://jonasboner.com
> work: http://crisp.se
> work: http://scalablesolutions.se
> code: http://github.com/jboner
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
Thanks! And it is probably worth repeating that although I am the
only active committer at the moment, this represents the work of many
people, especially (alphabetically :) Eric Evans, Johan Oskarsson, Jun
Rao, and Sandeep Tata -- hopefully we will get more committers from
this group soon. Lots of others also contributed patches, bug
reports, and testing.
-Jonathan
On May 14, 2009, at 8:34 AM, Jonas Bonér <jo...@jonasboner.com> wrote:
> Awesome job Jonathan.
> Just getting into the codebase so fast is admirable.
> Churning out code like this (and releases) is amazing. Keep it up.
>
> 2009/5/14 Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>:
>> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
>> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>>
>> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
>> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>>
>> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
>> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
>> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jonas Bonér
>
> twitter: @jboner
> blog: http://jonasboner.com
> work: http://crisp.se
> work: http://scalablesolutions.se
> code: http://github.com/jboner
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonas Bonér <jo...@jonasboner.com>.
Awesome job Jonathan.
Just getting into the codebase so fast is admirable.
Churning out code like this (and releases) is amazing. Keep it up.
2009/5/14 Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>:
> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>
> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>
> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>
> -Jonathan
>
--
Jonas Bonér
twitter: @jboner
blog: http://jonasboner.com
work: http://crisp.se
work: http://scalablesolutions.se
code: http://github.com/jboner
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
I've been asked to change the download url to
http://people.apache.org/%7Ejbellis/cassandra/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz to
avoid incorrectly implying that this is An Official Release which it
is not.
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by nk 11 <ni...@gmail.com>.
Nice effort! :)
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:29 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops, fat-fingered the url:
> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
>
> :)
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Short version:
> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
> > Long version:
> http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
> >
> > Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
> > find more so the release is even more solid." :)
> >
> > I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
> > development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
> > until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
> >
> > -Jonathan
> >
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:24 AM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrot
>> "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
>> non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
>> candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
>> supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
>> list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
>> placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
>> downloading such test packages, then remove them.
>
> What problem is this policy supposed to solve? The days of someone
> downloading a nightly build and being surprised it's not release
> quality are long gone, if they ever existed.
>
> In my mind the point of having nightly builds available is so that
> someone can check to see if a bug he ran into is fixed in the latest
> code before filing a bug report, or try out new features before an
> official release.
Many ASF projects do have nightly builds, they should just not be
advertised outside of the dev list.
> ...This really seems like an area that projects should be able to set
> their own policy guided by common sense...
It's currently not the case.
If you want to change that, talk to your mentors who can bring the question up.
> (Is the ASF a place where I can raise questions like this without
> being shut down with "this is how we do things here, go away if you
> don't like it?" I guess we will see.)
You're welcome to raise questions like this, and there are ways to fix things.
The "all decisions on the dev mailing list" rule is one of those cast
in stone "this is how we do things here" rules, there's no way around
that one.
--Bertrand
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:48 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:24 AM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrot
>> > "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
>> > non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
>> > candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
>> > supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
>> > list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
>> > placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
>> > downloading such test packages, then remove them.
>>
>> What problem is this policy supposed to solve? The days of someone
>> downloading a nightly build and being surprised it's not release
>> quality are long gone, if they ever existed.
>>
>> In my mind the point of having nightly builds available is so that
>> someone can check to see if a bug he ran into is fixed in the latest
>> code before filing a bug report, or try out new features before an
>> official release.
>>
>> I guess you could argue that such people are ipso facto "developers"
>> but in that case we come back again to ... what problem does this
>> solve?
>>
>
> A lot of the policies at the ASF are rooted in Intellectual Property land,
> which is probably why they can sound so backwards sometimes :) Basically the
> ASF is liable for any tarball that you release as long as it's blessed by
> the ASF stamp. How the blessing takes place and limiting the liabilities are
> both strong motivations for the policies to exist. Heck, the foundation has
> been created just to protect developers against those liabilities.
>
> Placing a tarball under your own account is a somewhat clear indicator that
> it's just a snapshot and as such is pretty much "use at your own risk", from
> both a code quality and an IP standpoint (i.e. does it contain GPL'd code?).
> Placing it under a project URL usually indicates that it's been properly
> voted and is therefore "clean".
>
>
AIUI this is also for _your_ benefit, so just to make that point
really clear imagine some IP belonging to some other company slipped
in somehow without their permission and that company sues then if you
have it available on your own personal space somewhere its you they
sue but if its done as an official release by an ASF PMC then its the
ASF that gets dragged to court and the individual project developers
are protected.
...ant
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
>> >> > non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
>> >> > candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
>> >> > supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
>> >> > list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
>> >> > placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
>> >> > downloading such test packages, then remove them.
>> That is all very well and good but that doesn't explain what the
>> problem is with saying "here's where to find the bleeding edge." A
>> nightly build is inherently not an official, endorsed release.
>
> Oh there's no problem with that (did someone say differently?), the only
> disagreement was about the "here" (preferably not under the project URL).
I've quoted ant's paste several times now. That is certainly how "Do
not include any links on the project website that might encourage
non-developers to download and use nightly builds..." reads to me.
> Speaking of which:
>
> http://ci.apache.org/
http://hudson.zones.apache.org/hudson/job/Cassandra/ (thanks to Johan)
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I've quoted ant's paste several times now. That is certainly how "Do
> >> not include any links on the project website that might encourage
> >> non-developers to download and use nightly builds..." reads to me.
> >
> > Then you're maybe reading too much to the letter. Look around, many
> projects
> > include links to their nightlies. All projects publish temporary binaries
> > until a release is properly voted. Those are not advertised to users
> > however. Do you see what would be the problem with having users
> downloading
> > those?
>
> Programmers (and lawyers!) are pedants by nature. :P
>
> If the letter is routinely disregarded because it is overly strict,
> then the letter should be changed or it becomes difficult to tell
> which letters are to be taken seriously.
>
The policy is fine, it explains what, not how, which is just right for a
policy. If you read it again, you'll notice the "...that might encourage
non-developers to download and use nightly builds" part which is actually
pretty well phrased. You're reading absolutes in something that's not.
> Hence my suggestion that the decision of whether to link nightly
> builds ought to be left up to individual projects (de jure as well as
> de facto).
>
I believe this thread proves the exact opposite, starting with your email to
cassandra-user :)
Matthieu
>
> -Jonathan
> (My bad, I didn't CC the listt at first on my last reply to Matthieu,
> I didn't mean to take it private)
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've quoted ant's paste several times now. That is certainly how "Do
>> not include any links on the project website that might encourage
>> non-developers to download and use nightly builds..." reads to me.
>
> Then you're maybe reading too much to the letter. Look around, many projects
> include links to their nightlies. All projects publish temporary binaries
> until a release is properly voted. Those are not advertised to users
> however. Do you see what would be the problem with having users downloading
> those?
Programmers (and lawyers!) are pedants by nature. :P
If the letter is routinely disregarded because it is overly strict,
then the letter should be changed or it becomes difficult to tell
which letters are to be taken seriously.
Hence my suggestion that the decision of whether to link nightly
builds ought to be left up to individual projects (de jure as well as
de facto).
-Jonathan
(My bad, I didn't CC the listt at first on my last reply to Matthieu,
I didn't mean to take it private)
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:48 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
> >> > non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
> >> > candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
> >> > supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
> >> > list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
> >> > placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
> >> > downloading such test packages, then remove them.
>
> >> This really seems like an area that projects should be able to set
> >> their own policy guided by common sense.
>
> > Fuck no :) None of us are lawyers, yet releasing is unfortunately a step
> in
> > that land. Releasing open source is even more touchy. Believe it or not,
> > there are companies that employ lawyers to check releases licensing
> before
> > adopting one. Even Eclipse does that. So releases are really an area
> where
> > you want to have very tight common policies, the last thing the ASF wants
> is
> > an official, ASF-endorsed release continaing some GPL code or code copy /
> > pasted from proprietary software by a careless contributor.
>
> That is all very well and good but that doesn't explain what the
> problem is with saying "here's where to find the bleeding edge." A
> nightly build is inherently not an official, endorsed release.
>
Oh there's no problem with that (did someone say differently?), the only
disagreement was about the "here" (preferably not under the project URL).
Speaking of which:
http://ci.apache.org/
Matthieu
>
> -Jonathan
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:48 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
>> > non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
>> > candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
>> > supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
>> > list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
>> > placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
>> > downloading such test packages, then remove them.
>> This really seems like an area that projects should be able to set
>> their own policy guided by common sense.
> Fuck no :) None of us are lawyers, yet releasing is unfortunately a step in
> that land. Releasing open source is even more touchy. Believe it or not,
> there are companies that employ lawyers to check releases licensing before
> adopting one. Even Eclipse does that. So releases are really an area where
> you want to have very tight common policies, the last thing the ASF wants is
> an official, ASF-endorsed release continaing some GPL code or code copy /
> pasted from proprietary software by a careless contributor.
That is all very well and good but that doesn't explain what the
problem is with saying "here's where to find the bleeding edge." A
nightly build is inherently not an official, endorsed release.
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:48 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:24 AM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrot
> > "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
> > non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
> > candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
> > supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
> > list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
> > placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
> > downloading such test packages, then remove them.
>
> What problem is this policy supposed to solve? The days of someone
> downloading a nightly build and being surprised it's not release
> quality are long gone, if they ever existed.
>
> In my mind the point of having nightly builds available is so that
> someone can check to see if a bug he ran into is fixed in the latest
> code before filing a bug report, or try out new features before an
> official release.
>
> I guess you could argue that such people are ipso facto "developers"
> but in that case we come back again to ... what problem does this
> solve?
>
A lot of the policies at the ASF are rooted in Intellectual Property land,
which is probably why they can sound so backwards sometimes :) Basically the
ASF is liable for any tarball that you release as long as it's blessed by
the ASF stamp. How the blessing takes place and limiting the liabilities are
both strong motivations for the policies to exist. Heck, the foundation has
been created just to protect developers against those liabilities.
Placing a tarball under your own account is a somewhat clear indicator that
it's just a snapshot and as such is pretty much "use at your own risk", from
both a code quality and an IP standpoint (i.e. does it contain GPL'd code?).
Placing it under a project URL usually indicates that it's been properly
voted and is therefore "clean".
> This really seems like an area that projects should be able to set
> their own policy guided by common sense.
>
Fuck no :) None of us are lawyers, yet releasing is unfortunately a step in
that land. Releasing open source is even more touchy. Believe it or not,
there are companies that employ lawyers to check releases licensing before
adopting one. Even Eclipse does that. So releases are really an area where
you want to have very tight common policies, the last thing the ASF wants is
an official, ASF-endorsed release continaing some GPL code or code copy /
pasted from proprietary software by a careless contributor.
>
> (Is the ASF a place where I can raise questions like this without
> being shut down with "this is how we do things here, go away if you
> don't like it?" I guess we will see.)
>
Hopefully not, always feel free to ask why. But people around here are busy
and sometimes saying "put up or shut up" is so much quicker :)
Matthieu
>
> -Jonathan
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:24 AM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrot
> "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
> non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
> candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
> supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
> list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
> placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
> downloading such test packages, then remove them.
What problem is this policy supposed to solve? The days of someone
downloading a nightly build and being surprised it's not release
quality are long gone, if they ever existed.
In my mind the point of having nightly builds available is so that
someone can check to see if a bug he ran into is fixed in the latest
code before filing a bug report, or try out new features before an
official release.
I guess you could argue that such people are ipso facto "developers"
but in that case we come back again to ... what problem does this
solve?
This really seems like an area that projects should be able to set
their own policy guided by common sense.
(Is the ASF a place where I can raise questions like this without
being shut down with "this is how we do things here, go away if you
don't like it?" I guess we will see.)
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
Huh? "our release process is geared towards large orgs with room for
a FT release mgr. If it is too onerous, do it more often."
Does that seem bassackwards to anyone else?
-Jonathan
On May 14, 2009, at 5:24 AM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> (dropping the users list from CC)
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Oops, fat-fingered the url:
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Although I understand this is not meant to be an official release,
>> and
>> totally agree that getting early feedback is good, the way this is
>> presented is confusing.
>>
>> The term "release candidate" and putting it under cassandra/releases
>> makes it appear as publishing this tarball is a project decision, but
>> I see no discussions on this dev list about putting this release
>> candidate out.
>>
>> I'd be much more comfortable if you would move it under
>> http://people.apache.org/~jbellis/, for example, to make it clear
>> that
>> you, as opposed to the Cassandra project, are providing a tarball for
>> people to test. Or use the "bleeding edge" link at
>> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/#download, which points to
>> development snapshots.
>>
>> As is now, the potential for confusion with an Apache release (or
>> release candidate) is too high IMO.
>>
>> What do mentors think?
>>
>> -- Bertrand (with my Incubator PMC member hat on)
>>
>
> I agree. I know it may seem a PITA but i think the this is an
> important area for poddlings to learn about. The ASF realese guide has
> this to say:
>
> "Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
> non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
> candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
> supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
> list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
> placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
> downloading such test packages, then remove them.
>
> Under no circumstances are unapproved builds a substitute for
> releases. If this policy seems inconvenient, then release more often.
> Proper release management is a key aspect of Apache software
> development."
>
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#what
>
> ...ant
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> (dropping the users list from CC)
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oops, fat-fingered the url:
>> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
>
> Hi,
>
> Although I understand this is not meant to be an official release, and
> totally agree that getting early feedback is good, the way this is
> presented is confusing.
>
> The term "release candidate" and putting it under cassandra/releases
> makes it appear as publishing this tarball is a project decision, but
> I see no discussions on this dev list about putting this release
> candidate out.
>
> I'd be much more comfortable if you would move it under
> http://people.apache.org/~jbellis/, for example, to make it clear that
> you, as opposed to the Cassandra project, are providing a tarball for
> people to test. Or use the "bleeding edge" link at
> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/#download, which points to
> development snapshots.
>
> As is now, the potential for confusion with an Apache release (or
> release candidate) is too high IMO.
>
> What do mentors think?
>
> -- Bertrand (with my Incubator PMC member hat on)
>
I agree. I know it may seem a PITA but i think the this is an
important area for poddlings to learn about. The ASF realese guide has
this to say:
"Do not include any links on the project website that might encourage
non-developers to download and use nightly builds, snapshots, release
candidates, or any other similar package. The only people who are
supposed to know about such packages are the people following the dev
list (or searching its archives) and thus aware of the conditions
placed on the package. If you find that the general public are
downloading such test packages, then remove them.
Under no circumstances are unapproved builds a substitute for
releases. If this policy seems inconvenient, then release more often.
Proper release management is a key aspect of Apache software
development."
http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#what
...ant
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
Fine.
-Jonathan
On May 14, 2009, at 6:00 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Having it under http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/
>>> clearly crosses that line.
>>
>> Would downloads/ be better?
>
> Not in my opinion. My point is that, as putting the tarball up for
> download is not a project decision (as nothing was discussed here), it
> belongs to your own personal space.
>
> That's why I suggested http://people.apache.org/~jbellis/ - I'm not
> sure what the problem is with putting your tarball there.
>
> -Bertrand
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Having it under http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/
>> clearly crosses that line.
>
> Would downloads/ be better?
Not in my opinion. My point is that, as putting the tarball up for
download is not a project decision (as nothing was discussed here), it
belongs to your own personal space.
That's why I suggested http://people.apache.org/~jbellis/ - I'm not
sure what the problem is with putting your tarball there.
-Bertrand
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> Having it under http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/
> clearly crosses that line.
Would downloads/ be better?
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Not to mention those who are in another timezone or those who would like
> to
> > contribute on their spare time (like a day here and there). If the real
> > development happens outside the ML, you won't even know those people
> exist.
>
> I can appreciate the real benefits of the ML but neither of these is
> among those. We have developers from US, EU, and I believe asian time
> zones on IRC and we overlap enough that it works out fine.
>
> If anything, IRC is _better_ suited than a ML for accomodating people
> who want to pop in and fix something because of its much lower
> latency.
>
I think none of us said IRC is completely bad and should be avoided at all
cost. All we said is that important decisions taken on IRC should be further
discussed on the mailing-list. And for good reasons. What if I found a bug
on Cassandra that I didn't report yet but only learn it's too late with the
release email? What if I have no clue that you're doing this instead of that
and start working on a patch for that? What if I'm foillowing the ML to see
in which direction the project is going? What if I can only contribute on
Saturdays? And the list goes on...
Again, IRC is good for technical (and non technical) chit-chat and
formulating quick agreement. But it's really bad as a complete ML
replacement, more than one open source project got really hurt this way with
no new blood showing up.
Matthieu
>
> -Jonathan
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not to mention those who are in another timezone or those who would like to
> contribute on their spare time (like a day here and there). If the real
> development happens outside the ML, you won't even know those people exist.
I can appreciate the real benefits of the ML but neither of these is
among those. We have developers from US, EU, and I believe asian time
zones on IRC and we overlap enough that it works out fine.
If anything, IRC is _better_ suited than a ML for accomodating people
who want to pop in and fix something because of its much lower
latency.
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Jonathan ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > You're right, it has not been obvious from the ML alone that we were this
> > close to a RC, but it has been very clear on IRC. My apologies for not
> > being louder here too. (although anyone interested in Cassandra dev
> really
> > -should- be on irc.)...
>
> One of the important principles in ASF projects is that all decisions
> happen on the dev mailing list.
>
> Having conversations on IRC is fine of course,but as soon as they turn
> into important discussions or decisions potential decisions that must
> come back to the list.
>
> The goal is to allow people who are not following all the time (like
> me) to stay on top of all important things, without having to require
> them to use a synchronous channel.
>
Not to mention those who are in another timezone or those who would like to
contribute on their spare time (like a day here and there). If the real
development happens outside the ML, you won't even know those people exist.
Matthieu.
>
> > ...IMO it it better to have this under the site from the perspective of a
> user
> > trying to find the tarball he was reproducing a specific issue on but
> that
> > is my only reason to prefer one URL to another....
>
> The docs cited by Ant make it clear that this is not the way to go. As
> long as the tarball is clearly identified as your own creation, no
> problem with that, but it should not be confused with something that
> the Cassandra project created.
>
> Having it under http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/
> clearly crosses that line.
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Jonathan ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You're right, it has not been obvious from the ML alone that we were this
> close to a RC, but it has been very clear on IRC. My apologies for not
> being louder here too. (although anyone interested in Cassandra dev really
> -should- be on irc.)...
One of the important principles in ASF projects is that all decisions
happen on the dev mailing list.
Having conversations on IRC is fine of course,but as soon as they turn
into important discussions or decisions potential decisions that must
come back to the list.
The goal is to allow people who are not following all the time (like
me) to stay on top of all important things, without having to require
them to use a synchronous channel.
> ...IMO it it better to have this under the site from the perspective of a user
> trying to find the tarball he was reproducing a specific issue on but that
> is my only reason to prefer one URL to another....
The docs cited by Ant make it clear that this is not the way to go. As
long as the tarball is clearly identified as your own creation, no
problem with that, but it should not be confused with something that
the Cassandra project created.
Having it under http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/
clearly crosses that line.
-Bertrand
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
You're right, it has not been obvious from the ML alone that we were
this close to a RC, but it has been very clear on IRC. My apologies
for not being louder here too. (although anyone interested in
Cassandra dev really -should- be on irc.)
IMO it it better to have this under the site from the perspective of a
user trying to find the tarball he was reproducing a specific issue on
but that is my only reason to prefer one URL to another.
-Jonathan
On May 14, 2009, at 5:13 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> (dropping the users list from CC)
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Oops, fat-fingered the url:
>> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
>
> Hi,
>
> Although I understand this is not meant to be an official release, and
> totally agree that getting early feedback is good, the way this is
> presented is confusing.
>
> The term "release candidate" and putting it under cassandra/releases
> makes it appear as publishing this tarball is a project decision, but
> I see no discussions on this dev list about putting this release
> candidate out.
>
> I'd be much more comfortable if you would move it under
> http://people.apache.org/~jbellis/, for example, to make it clear that
> you, as opposed to the Cassandra project, are providing a tarball for
> people to test. Or use the "bleeding edge" link at
> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/#download, which points to
> development snapshots.
>
> As is now, the potential for confusion with an Apache release (or
> release candidate) is too high IMO.
>
> What do mentors think?
>
> -- Bertrand (with my Incubator PMC member hat on)
>
>
>>
>> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Jonathan Ellis
>> <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
>>> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>>>
>>> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help
>>> us
>>> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>>>
>>> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
>>> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
>>> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>>>
>>> -Jonathan
>>>
>>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
(dropping the users list from CC)
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops, fat-fingered the url:
> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
Hi,
Although I understand this is not meant to be an official release, and
totally agree that getting early feedback is good, the way this is
presented is confusing.
The term "release candidate" and putting it under cassandra/releases
makes it appear as publishing this tarball is a project decision, but
I see no discussions on this dev list about putting this release
candidate out.
I'd be much more comfortable if you would move it under
http://people.apache.org/~jbellis/, for example, to make it clear that
you, as opposed to the Cassandra project, are providing a tarball for
people to test. Or use the "bleeding edge" link at
http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/#download, which points to
development snapshots.
As is now, the potential for confusion with an Apache release (or
release candidate) is too high IMO.
What do mentors think?
-- Bertrand (with my Incubator PMC member hat on)
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
>> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>>
>> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
>> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>>
>> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
>> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
>> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Uh, so, it's still an unofficial release right?
Right.
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@gmail.com>.
Uh, so, it's still an unofficial release right? The release process at
Apache is actually a tad more involved than cutting a tgz, as you can
probably guess just looking at the length of the guide:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html
Matthieu
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops, fat-fingered the url:
> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
>
> :)
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Short version:
> http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
> > Long version:
> http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
> >
> > Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
> > find more so the release is even more solid." :)
> >
> > I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
> > development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
> > until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
> >
> > -Jonathan
> >
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
I've been asked to change the download url to
http://people.apache.org/%7Ejbellis/cassandra/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz to
avoid incorrectly implying that this is An Official Release which it
is not.
-Jonathan
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
Oops, fat-fingered the url:
http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
:)
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>
> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>
> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>
> -Jonathan
>
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonas Bonér <jo...@jonasboner.com>.
Awesome job Jonathan.
Just getting into the codebase so fast is admirable.
Churning out code like this (and releases) is amazing. Keep it up.
2009/5/14 Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>:
> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>
> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>
> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>
> -Jonathan
>
--
Jonas Bonér
twitter: @jboner
blog: http://jonasboner.com
work: http://crisp.se
work: http://scalablesolutions.se
code: http://github.com/jboner
Re: Cassandra 0.3 RC is out
Posted by Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com>.
Oops, fat-fingered the url:
http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/releases/cassandra-0.3-rc.tgz
:)
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Short version: http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/cassandra-0.3.0-rc.tgz
> Long version: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassandra-03-release-candidate-and.html
>
> Release Candidate means "we fixed all the bugs we could find; help us
> find more so the release is even more solid." :)
>
> I've created a 0.3 branch for bugfixes; trunk will now be for 0.4
> development. I'll start to look at the patches I've been postponing
> until the RC was out now; thanks for your patience, Jun and Sandeep.
>
> -Jonathan
>