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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Hyrum K Wright <hy...@wandisco.com> on 2011/08/26 17:38:18 UTC

1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
the proposed tarballs from here:
 http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/

The magic rev is r1162132; please post signatures at the normal location:
 http://work.hyrumwright.org/pub/svn/collect_sigs.py

This is a release candidate, meaning if all goes well it (or something
very much like it) will become the final release.  Please test this as
if it were the final release, understanding that there will be bugs in
any software we ship.  <insert lecture about perfect being enemy of
the good here>

To all distributors and binary packagers: This isn't the final
release.  It *won't* be the final release for a few weeks yet, so
please don't ship it as such.  In any case, don't distribute any
releases based upon these tarballs until we complete our signature
gathering process and officially announce the release.

-Hyrum

-- 

uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
http://www.uberSVN.com/

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de>.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:38:18AM -0500, Hyrum K Wright wrote:
> After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> the proposed tarballs from here:
>  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/

I think this is a very nice .0 release.
It has received a good set of fixes and enhancements from STATUS since beta3.
And it scored perfectly on the 8-way test run + bindings.
The present remaining nominations in STATUS are good fixes but not blockers.

Summary: +1 to release

Tested: [bdb | fsfs] x [ra_local | ra_svn | ra_neon | ra_serf]
        swig bindings

Test results: All passed.

Platform: OpenBSD 5.0 amd64

Dependencies:
bdb:        4.7.25
GNU-iconv:  1.13.1
apr:        1.4.5
apr-util:   1.3.12
httpd:      2.2.19
neon:       0.29.6
serf:       1.0.0
cyrus-sasl: 2.1.23
sqlite:     3070603
openssl:    1.0.0a
swig:       1.3.36
python:     2.7.2
perl:       5.12.2
ruby:       1.8.7-p334

Signatures:

subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.gz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (OpenBSD)

iEYEABECAAYFAk5cipUACgkQ5dMCc/WdJfBGiQCg75WtGcnp93zF/2XJ1i75Yu4O
ma0AoPhFJXSmNZ4LNdVUlEcgA7eY+WYw
=DWGs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.bz2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (OpenBSD)

iEYEABECAAYFAk5cio0ACgkQ5dMCc/WdJfCgxACgiIOgFF4oSFmnpYWZjEFf6AxO
YQMAn38zxJvlaSGspTrs+Mr5V/4Yktq1
=3zQY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Bert Huijben <be...@qqmail.nl>.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hyrum K Wright [mailto:hyrum.wright@wandisco.com]
> Sent: vrijdag 26 augustus 2011 17:38
> To: Subversion Development
> Subject: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing
> 
> After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> the proposed tarballs from here:
>  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/
> 
> The magic rev is r1162132; please post signatures at the normal location:
>  http://work.hyrumwright.org/pub/svn/collect_sigs.py

+1 for release.

Visual Studio 2010 SP1 x86
Windows 7 Business X64

[fsfs | bdb] x [ra_local | ra_svn | ra_neon | ra_serf] + JavaHL + SharpSvn

Apr 1.4.5+r960671
Apr-Util 1.3.12
Apr-Iconv 1.2.11
BDB 4.4.20
Cyrus Sasl 2.1.23
GetText 0.17
Httpd 2.2.19
Junit 4.8.1
Neon 0.29.6
OpenSSL 1.0.0d
Serf 1.0.0
SQLite 3.7.7.1
ZLib 1.2.5

	Bert


Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
On 08/26/2011 11:38 AM, Hyrum K Wright wrote:
> After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> the proposed tarballs from here:
>  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/

Summary:

   +1 to release.

Platform:

   Ubuntu 10.04.3 (lucid) Linux (x86)
   Python 2.6.5
   Perl 5.10.1
   Ruby 1.8.7
   Java 1.6.0

Tested:

   (local, svn, neon, serf) x (bdb, fsfs) + \
      py + py + pl + rb + javahl + ctypes-python

Results:

   All tests pass.

MD5 Checksums:

   8c04ff8f3a8dda8e7e166e782e263d9b  subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.gz
   f0242ae5a2abc14cc22e65c2a23b09c4  subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.bz2

GPG Signatures (left-aligned because Hyrum likes it that way):

::: subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.gz :::
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEABECAAYFAk5XwZ0ACgkQokEGqRcG/W6vYACeMw0qqj7vgkrXCI2RECjAA3xo
pr0An355HzVFvB+1lTQNuH3GVvmI7kfu
=vZ4p
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

::: subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.bz2 :::
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEABECAAYFAk5XwZ8ACgkQokEGqRcG/W7cEwCghc7l/nHSKkNuMpNxTUcNZoW+
x5EAoJk73QOAhzpMtI3yo7C0qllRZ8Xg
=pzol
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



-- 
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet   <>   www.collab.net   <>   Distributed Development On Demand


Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Paul Burba <pt...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Hyrum K Wright
<hy...@wandisco.com> wrote:
> After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> the proposed tarballs from here:
>  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/
>
> The magic rev is r1162132; please post signatures at the normal location:
>  http://work.hyrumwright.org/pub/svn/collect_sigs.py
>
> This is a release candidate, meaning if all goes well it (or something
> very much like it) will become the final release.  Please test this as
> if it were the final release, understanding that there will be bugs in
> any software we ship.  <insert lecture about perfect being enemy of
> the good here>

SUMMARY:
---------
+1 to release

VERIFIED:
---------
Hyrum's sig for
http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/deploy/subversion-1.7.0-rc2.zip

Other than the expected differences in subversion/include/svn_version.h,
http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/deploy/subversion-1.7.0-rc2.zip
is identical to
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/branches/1.7.x@1162132.

TESTED:
-------
[Release-Build] x[ fsfs | bdb ] x [ file | svn | http (neon) | http (serf) ]
Ruby bindings (patched as described here:
http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2011-06/0682.shtml)
JavaHL Bindings

RESULTS:
--------
All Tests Pass

PLATFORM:
---------
MS Windows 7 Home Premium Service Pack 1
Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Version 9.0.30729.1 SP

DEPENDENCIES:
-------------
APR: 1.4.5
APR-UTIL: 1.3.12
Neon: 0.29.5
zlib: 1.2.4
OpenSSL: 0.9.8q
Apache: 2.2.19
BDB: 4.8.30
sqlite: 3.7.7.1
Python: 2.6.6 (ActivePython 2.6.6.17)
Perl: 5.10.1
Ruby: ruby 1.8.7
java: 1.6.0_21
junit: 4.8.2
swig: 1.3.40
serf: 1.0.0

SIGNATURE:
----------

http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/deploy/subversion-1.7.0-rc2.zip:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32)

iD8DBQBOWQIR2RaJMFP83FURAo5fAJ4sLR5PTV3CwSpYSZvMNyB/z6gp1QCcCGz+
dKJejucTFJC7P4DJ/3bnkqc=
=anb1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Paul

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de>.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 04:45:18PM -0400, Mark Phippard wrote:
> Is anyone running the tests?  We should have no shortage of committers that
> can provide a *nix signature.

They're still running here. I'll have sigs tomorrow morning (CEST).

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
Is anyone running the tests?  We should have no shortage of committers that
can provide a *nix signature.




On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Hyrum K Wright
<hy...@wandisco.com>wrote:

> By my count, we're still lacking a *nix signature.
>
> -Hyrum
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Hyrum K Wright
> <hy...@wandisco.com> wrote:
> > After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> > the proposed tarballs from here:
> >  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/
> >
> > The magic rev is r1162132; please post signatures at the normal location:
> >  http://work.hyrumwright.org/pub/svn/collect_sigs.py
> >
> > This is a release candidate, meaning if all goes well it (or something
> > very much like it) will become the final release.  Please test this as
> > if it were the final release, understanding that there will be bugs in
> > any software we ship.  <insert lecture about perfect being enemy of
> > the good here>
> >
> > To all distributors and binary packagers: This isn't the final
> > release.  It *won't* be the final release for a few weeks yet, so
> > please don't ship it as such.  In any case, don't distribute any
> > releases based upon these tarballs until we complete our signature
> > gathering process and officially announce the release.
> >
> > -Hyrum
> >
> > --
> >
> > uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
> > http://www.uberSVN.com/
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
> http://www.uberSVN.com/
>



-- 
Thanks

Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Hyrum K Wright <hy...@wandisco.com>.
By my count, we're still lacking a *nix signature.

-Hyrum

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Hyrum K Wright
<hy...@wandisco.com> wrote:
> After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> the proposed tarballs from here:
>  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/
>
> The magic rev is r1162132; please post signatures at the normal location:
>  http://work.hyrumwright.org/pub/svn/collect_sigs.py
>
> This is a release candidate, meaning if all goes well it (or something
> very much like it) will become the final release.  Please test this as
> if it were the final release, understanding that there will be bugs in
> any software we ship.  <insert lecture about perfect being enemy of
> the good here>
>
> To all distributors and binary packagers: This isn't the final
> release.  It *won't* be the final release for a few weeks yet, so
> please don't ship it as such.  In any case, don't distribute any
> releases based upon these tarballs until we complete our signature
> gathering process and officially announce the release.
>
> -Hyrum
>
> --
>
> uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
> http://www.uberSVN.com/
>



-- 

uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
http://www.uberSVN.com/

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Julian Foad <ju...@wandisco.com>.
On Fri, 2011-08-26, Hyrum K Wright wrote:
> After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> the proposed tarballs from here:
>  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/

Summary:

  +1 to release (Unix).

  My two signatures were successfully collected by your script.

Tested:

  [ bdb | fsfs ] x [ ra_local | ra_svn | ra_neon | ra_serf ]
  swig-py
  swig-pl
  swig-rb
  ctypes-python

  (I also built javahl, but couldn't get its tests to run.  I'm assuming
that's a local problem.  It's not a new problem.)

Results:

  All tests passed.

Environment:

  OS/Platform:
    Ubuntu 10.10, 2.6.35-30-generic i686 GNU/Linux

  Using no in-tree build of dependencies.

  Using Ubuntu distribution-supplied packages:
    libapr1 1.4.2-3ubuntu1
    libaprutil1 1.3.9+dfsg-3build1
    libdb-dev 4.8
    openssl 0.9.8o-1ubuntu4
    perl 5.10.1-12ubuntu2
    python 2.6.6-2ubuntu2
    zlib1g 1:1.2.3.4.dfsg-3ubuntu1
    ruby 1.8.7
    neon 0.29.3
    swig 1.3.40

  Using self-built packages:
    serf 0.7.2

Signatures:
::: subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.bz2 :::
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEABECAAYFAk5co6wACgkQNR8z5DU+JbyXMwCfQ8P2ucBLOZ86kAgp6I5Cyzq/
oMIAniz++bXbChLhCs2vr9Hg7yETVZaZ
=k6mK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

::: subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.gz :::
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEABECAAYFAk5co6wACgkQNR8z5DU+Jbw5EACeIxAMGK3uAdabUR31LsaWRsV1
nfsAnRwsgw2LcwmaMIuCKUfmoBIgi85c
=Xu21
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


- Julian



Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
SUMMARY:
+1 to release

PLATFORM:
 Windows 7
 VS 2008 SP1
 Java 1.6

COMPONENTS:
 Apache        2.2.19
 APR             1.4.5
 APR-UTIL    1.3.12
 OpenSSL     1.0.0a
 Neon            0.29.6
 Serf             1.0.0
 ZLib             1.2.4
 SQLite         3.7.7.1

VERIFIED:
 signature and sha1

TESTED:
 JavaHL
 ra_local | ra_svn | ra_neon | ra_serf X fsfs

RESULTS:
 All passed

SIGNATURES:

subversion-1.7.0-rc2.zip
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)

iEYEABECAAYFAk5Xv7MACgkQJl34oANalqnN7wCgkQhbbcpOt6w2h6nzVYK2QA5o
AZkAoK2CHgDfuqS0jUjaAFCjtODLtUjm
=mtbz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



-- 
Thanks

Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Philip Martin <ph...@wandisco.com>.
Summary:

  +1 to release

Platform:

  Linux (Debian/squeeze)

Tested:

  (local, svn, svn+sasl, serf, neon) x (fsfs, fsfs/pack/shard, bdb)
  (serf/v1, neon/v1) x (fsfs, bdb)
  swig-pl, swig-py, swig-rb
  javahl x (fsfs, bdb)

Results:

  All tests PASS

Local dependencies:

  apache2-threaded-dev : 2.2.16-6+squeeze1
  libapr1-dev : 1.4.2-6+squeeze3
  libaprutil1-dev : 1.3.9+dfsg-5
  libdb4.8-dev : 4.8.30-2
  libneon27-dev : 0.29.3-3
  libsasl2-dev : 2.1.23.dfsg1-7
  libsqlite3-dev : 3.7.3-1
  perl : 5.10.1-17squeeze2
  python2.6-dev : 2.6.6-8+b1
  ruby1.8-dev : 1.8.7.302-2squeeze1
  openjdk-6-jdk : 6b18-1.8.7-2~squeeze1
  serf : trunk@1557

subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.bz2

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAABCAAGBQJOWAI4AAoJEHbXiOHtGlmcbK0IAKb7CrOZAv5c5Vflndxl5Fc5
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Ur5LMSspphTadjChj/XWHWx5todDhZuQxThGZWX1x1t462CYGsYINn5dIJ8kMSfT
IBbVr3KjT6/FIJxwv2JRvIydEs/LA06M5xzmUv5Kdh+P5iuIQgmTUQJdezQhC4t6
YoWUGOXckdtzC9jpHdNwIB1ROFOGlUbsL2SL8vzSVo3YgIo6s+PDjvxjR5K6F0M=
=T75+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

subversion-1.7.0-rc2.tar.gz

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

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bbcWzXZu208TF8Y7YcE0w4eWdUfBJZnEQZEFi5PbxTuj8H3lJQ6hm5QHPR/k7pE=
=pj65
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
http://www.uberSVN.com

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Philip Martin <ph...@wandisco.com>.
Johan Corveleyn <jc...@gmail.com> writes:

> If this is really the cause, does that
> mean that it's a problem for Subversion, or that it's more of a
> test-suite problem (that it should sleep some time to make sure the
> timestamps differ, or something like that)?

It would be a test-suite problem. The test-suite uses
SVN_I_LOVE_CORRUPTED_WORKING_COPIES_SO_DISABLE_SLEEP_FOR_TIMESTAMPS so
tests that directly modify files, like depth_tests 18, should really be
aware of that.

-- 
uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
http://www.uberSVN.com

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Johan Corveleyn <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Philip Martin
<ph...@wandisco.com> wrote:
> Johan Corveleyn <jc...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Status against revision:      2
>> =============================================================
>> Expected 'gamma' and actual 'gamma' in status tree are different!
>> =============================================================
>> EXPECTED NODE TO BE:
>> =============================================================
>>  * Node name:   gamma
>>     Path:       svn-test-work\working_copies\depth_tests-18-1\A\D\gamma
>>     Contents:   None
>>     Properties: {}
>>     Attributes: {'status': 'M ', 'wc_rev': '1'}
>>     Children:  None (node is probably a file)
>> =============================================================
>> ACTUAL NODE FOUND:
>> =============================================================
>>  * Node name:   gamma
>>     Path:       svn-test-work\working_copies\depth_tests-18-1\A\D\gamma
>>     Contents:   None
>>     Properties: {}
>>     Attributes: {'status': '  ', 'wc_rev': '1'}
>>     Children:  None (node is probably a file)
>
> Do you still have the working copy?  The file hasn't been committed
> (still at r1) but is unmodified.  Perhaps it's just that the timestamps
> match and the text modification is still present?

Hi Philip,

Thanks for your feedback.

No, I'm afraid I don't have the working copy anymore, so there's no
way to be sure.

I should have been more careful, but when I saw that test failing, I
just couldn't believe it, because I had successfully run the entire
test suite on the 1.7.x branch just before that. So I decided to rerun
the depth_tests, just to make sure it failed. Which wasn't very smart,
because then the test succeeded, and the broken working copy was gone
:-(.

Anyway, it may be a reasonable hypothesis. I'm not sure if it will
ever happen again on my system. If this is really the cause, does that
mean that it's a problem for Subversion, or that it's more of a
test-suite problem (that it should sleep some time to make sure the
timestamps differ, or something like that)?

-- 
Johan

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Philip Martin <ph...@wandisco.com>.
Johan Corveleyn <jc...@gmail.com> writes:

> Status against revision:      2
> =============================================================
> Expected 'gamma' and actual 'gamma' in status tree are different!
> =============================================================
> EXPECTED NODE TO BE:
> =============================================================
>  * Node name:   gamma
>     Path:       svn-test-work\working_copies\depth_tests-18-1\A\D\gamma
>     Contents:   None
>     Properties: {}
>     Attributes: {'status': 'M ', 'wc_rev': '1'}
>     Children:  None (node is probably a file)
> =============================================================
> ACTUAL NODE FOUND:
> =============================================================
>  * Node name:   gamma
>     Path:       svn-test-work\working_copies\depth_tests-18-1\A\D\gamma
>     Contents:   None
>     Properties: {}
>     Attributes: {'status': '  ', 'wc_rev': '1'}
>     Children:  None (node is probably a file)

Do you still have the working copy?  The file hasn't been committed
(still at r1) but is unmodified.  Perhaps it's just that the timestamps
match and the text modification is still present?

-- 
uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
http://www.uberSVN.com

Re: 1.7.0-rc2 up for signing / testing

Posted by Johan Corveleyn <jc...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Hyrum K Wright
<hy...@wandisco.com> wrote:
> After the much-ballyhooed RC1, I've re-rolled an RC2.  You can fetch
> the proposed tarballs from here:
>  http://people.apache.org/~hwright/svn/1.7.0-rc2/
>
> The magic rev is r1162132; please post signatures at the normal location:
>  http://work.hyrumwright.org/pub/svn/collect_sigs.py
>
> This is a release candidate, meaning if all goes well it (or something
> very much like it) will become the final release.  Please test this as
> if it were the final release, understanding that there will be bugs in
> any software we ship.  <insert lecture about perfect being enemy of
> the good here>
>
> To all distributors and binary packagers: This isn't the final
> release.  It *won't* be the final release for a few weeks yet, so
> please don't ship it as such.  In any case, don't distribute any
> releases based upon these tarballs until we complete our signature
> gathering process and officially announce the release.

I had a strange one-time test failure (different from the one I
reported in [1], which I have already for a long time), when running
the tests on my Win XP yesterday. It only happened the first time when
I ran the test suite (local x fsfs):

FAIL:  depth_tests.py 18: commit property mods only, using --depth=empty

(see fails.log in attachment)

After this failure, I repeated the depth_tests (same setup) a half
dozen times, and they always succeeded. I also reran the entire suite,
no problem.

So that worries me a little bit. I wasn't doing anything special
during the failing test run (and even so, that shouldn't really
matter). Antivirus wasn't running (AV was responsible for some strange
test failures on my system in the past). But it did happen.

Anyway, since I can't reproduce, and I'm still struggling a bit with
getting my build/test environment up to par, I'm not going to veto or
anything (and there are already 3 Windows signatures). But if anyone
else sees this, it's at least an extra data point.

Any hypotheses for explaining this one-time glitch are also appreciated :-).

Dependencies used were/are:
Httpd 2.2.19
Apr 1.4.5 (as included with httpd)
Apr-Util 1.3.12 (as included with httpd)
Apr-Iconv 1.2.1 (as included with httpd)
Neon 0.29.6
OpenSSL 1.0.0d
Serf 1.0.0
SQLite 3.7.7.1
ZLib 1.2.5

Build environment: Visual C++ 2008 Express on Windows XP SP3.

-- 
Johan

[1] http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2011-08/0603.shtml