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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2008/10/22 22:08:39 UTC
What's up with WSRP4J?
Hi,
According to clutch, WSRP4J has been incubating for 1876 days...
Did not report at all this year AFAIK, and not much seems to be
happening on the project lists [1]
The code is in the portals svn space [3] with no disclaimer.
About a year ago [2] Carsten mentioned a pending license issue that
was blocking the project.
I think it's time to do something with that podling - if the code is
fine but not suitable for Apache licensing it's probably better to
move it somewhere else.
-Bertrand
[1] http://portals.apache.org/wsrp4j/contributing/mail.html
[2] http://markmail.org/message/weuvsdg5fxh62yw2
[3] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/portals/wsrp4j/trunk/
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Jeroen Hoffman <j....@onehippo.com>.
>
> http://portals.apache.org/mail-lists.html
>
I noticed that the email links of both WSRP4J lists in this document have the
wrong domain (ws.apache.org), that should be portals.apache.org
Jeroen Hoffman
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by David Sean Taylor <da...@bluesunrise.com>.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 1:40 AM, Florian Bruckner wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> it has been a long time since I last actively contributed to a
> discussion here at apache. While I cannot say anything on the
> interest in the project, I can tell you that in two enterprise
> portal projects I have been involved in and numerous others I have
> heard of plan to use WSRP. I also agree with Ralph that vendor
> support for the standard is widespread (just check, for example,
> what BEA does with WSRP: http://edocs.bea.com/wlp/docs102/federation/index.html)
> .
>
> So, because I feel it is important to have an open source WSRP
> implementation, I would like to offer my support for the project. I
> have quickly checked the web page of WSRP4J and noticed that not
> much activity is going on. Who should I talk to?
Join the WSRP "dev" list and start contributing by sending patches,
bug fixes, ...
http://portals.apache.org/mail-lists.html
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Florian Bruckner <bf...@florianbruckner.com>.
Hi everybody,
it has been a long time since I last actively contributed to a
discussion here at apache. While I cannot say anything on the interest
in the project, I can tell you that in two enterprise portal projects I
have been involved in and numerous others I have heard of plan to use
WSRP. I also agree with Ralph that vendor support for the standard is
widespread (just check, for example, what BEA does with WSRP:
http://edocs.bea.com/wlp/docs102/federation/index.html).
So, because I feel it is important to have an open source WSRP
implementation, I would like to offer my support for the project. I have
quickly checked the web page of WSRP4J and noticed that not much
activity is going on. Who should I talk to?
With best regards,
Florian
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 6:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>> That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal
>> evaluation earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having
>> WSRP 2.0 support during this year. The spec was finally approved this
>> year.
>>
>> I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I
>> can't find them now.
>>
>
> My observation is there hasn't been much interest in the project or
> the standard.There are so many issues related to the project that,
> unless someone steps up and starts working on this project, Im afraid
> its going to continue down the same path.
> I would hate to see that happen. If this standard is relevant, then we
> really should support this standard here at Apache Portals.
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Florian Bruckner <bf...@florianbruckner.com>.
Hi everybody,
it has been a long time since I last actively contributed to a
discussion here at apache. While I cannot say anything on the interest
in the project, I can tell you that in two enterprise portal projects I
have been involved in and numerous others I have heard of plan to use
WSRP. I also agree with Ralph that vendor support for the standard is
widespread (just check, for example, what BEA does with WSRP:
http://edocs.bea.com/wlp/docs102/federation/index.html).
So, because I feel it is important to have an open source WSRP
implementation, I would like to offer my support for the project. I have
quickly checked the web page of WSRP4J and noticed that not much
activity is going on. Who should I talk to?
With best regards,
Florian
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 6:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>> That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal
>> evaluation earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having
>> WSRP 2.0 support during this year. The spec was finally approved this
>> year.
>>
>> I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I
>> can't find them now.
>>
>
> My observation is there hasn't been much interest in the project or
> the standard.There are so many issues related to the project that,
> unless someone steps up and starts working on this project, Im afraid
> its going to continue down the same path.
> I would hate to see that happen. If this standard is relevant, then we
> really should support this standard here at Apache Portals.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi Ate,
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>> ...Does that patent issue mean that an ASF release of the WSRP4J would
>>> not be safe from a legal point of view?...
>>>
>>> Or is it just that users might be afraid of using it?
>> The patent claim (as it stands right now, but: IANAL) seems to require for
>> any usage an *individual* license, e.g. there is no waver
>> (yet) for the ASF to allow release and distribution without putting this
>> burden onto the end users again.
>> In my view, this would not be in compliance with the ASF license and thus a
>> blocker for an ASF endorsed release...
>
> Ok, so that looks like the core issue. And if the answer is that a
> release cannot happen within the ASF, I think the code must move
> elsewhere. That does not prevent it from coming back later if the
> issue is resolved.
>
>> ..Now, end users might or might now be afraid to use it.
>> Its (again in my view, and again: IANAL) questionable to say the least if
>> there would ever be a claim by this one patent holder, but legally
>> it is unclear if/how we can make sure (so nor can the end-users) without
>> having this go to court at least once or get this waver from the
>> acclaimed patent holder....
>
> Ok.
>
>>> ...Assuming the legal issue can be worked out, would the portals PMC be
>>> prepared to "adopt" the WSRP4J code and maintain it in the future?
>> Definitely, and we already did (for as much as possible)!
>> AFAIK The Portal PMC accepted long time ago to do so. This was before I
>> became member though and I haven't be able to find concrete references in
>> the mail archives for this....
>> ...But the Portals PMC has taken responsibility for reporting WSRP4J status to
>> the board, the code-base is hosted underneath the portals root folder in svn
>> and the project website is also hosted under portals.apache.org....
>
> Ok, so the project's status is kind of weird w.r.t the incubator, but
> I guess we can accept this temporarily based on the legal blocker.
>
>> ...Note: possibly part of the reason the WSRP4J status reports have not always
>> been delivered is that the separate incubator status reports
>> are not in schedule with the separate Portals status report, and of course
>> that there hasn't been much to report either.
>> But when it was, the *Portals* status reports also included the needed
>> information to the board AFAIK....
>
> Ok, that clarifies the missing incubator reports. Again, looks like
> the project and code has been de facto accepted by the portals PMC,
> without the incubator being really aware of that.
>
> Could you maybe add a note to
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/wsrp4j.html with a brief summary
> of the project's status, pointing to this thread? That would help in
> avoiding repeated inquiries.
Will do.
>
>> ...David Taylor and myself got stuck again on this after a few months, because
>> we are unclear how to proceed and severe lack of time too.
>> It would be great if we can solicit some additional help with this as we
>> definitely would like to resolve this once and for all (no matter the
>> outcome).
>>
>> Both David and myself will be at the ApacheCon so maybe we can setup a
>> meeting then to discuss what can/needs to be done?...
>
> IMHO as far as the incubator is concerned, your explanations have
> clarified the project's status.
Ok, glad it helped.
>
> I'm not qualified to discuss the legal issue, so I think a meeting
> only makes sense if ASF people with sufficient legal knowledge can
> participate - the best might be for you to call for volunteers on the
> legal and general@incubator lists, in a separate thread.
Ok.
>
> thanks for the follow-ups,
> -Bertrand
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi Ate,
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>> ...Does that patent issue mean that an ASF release of the WSRP4J would
>>> not be safe from a legal point of view?...
>>>
>>> Or is it just that users might be afraid of using it?
>> The patent claim (as it stands right now, but: IANAL) seems to require for
>> any usage an *individual* license, e.g. there is no waver
>> (yet) for the ASF to allow release and distribution without putting this
>> burden onto the end users again.
>> In my view, this would not be in compliance with the ASF license and thus a
>> blocker for an ASF endorsed release...
>
> Ok, so that looks like the core issue. And if the answer is that a
> release cannot happen within the ASF, I think the code must move
> elsewhere. That does not prevent it from coming back later if the
> issue is resolved.
>
>> ..Now, end users might or might now be afraid to use it.
>> Its (again in my view, and again: IANAL) questionable to say the least if
>> there would ever be a claim by this one patent holder, but legally
>> it is unclear if/how we can make sure (so nor can the end-users) without
>> having this go to court at least once or get this waver from the
>> acclaimed patent holder....
>
> Ok.
>
>>> ...Assuming the legal issue can be worked out, would the portals PMC be
>>> prepared to "adopt" the WSRP4J code and maintain it in the future?
>> Definitely, and we already did (for as much as possible)!
>> AFAIK The Portal PMC accepted long time ago to do so. This was before I
>> became member though and I haven't be able to find concrete references in
>> the mail archives for this....
>> ...But the Portals PMC has taken responsibility for reporting WSRP4J status to
>> the board, the code-base is hosted underneath the portals root folder in svn
>> and the project website is also hosted under portals.apache.org....
>
> Ok, so the project's status is kind of weird w.r.t the incubator, but
> I guess we can accept this temporarily based on the legal blocker.
>
>> ...Note: possibly part of the reason the WSRP4J status reports have not always
>> been delivered is that the separate incubator status reports
>> are not in schedule with the separate Portals status report, and of course
>> that there hasn't been much to report either.
>> But when it was, the *Portals* status reports also included the needed
>> information to the board AFAIK....
>
> Ok, that clarifies the missing incubator reports. Again, looks like
> the project and code has been de facto accepted by the portals PMC,
> without the incubator being really aware of that.
>
> Could you maybe add a note to
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/wsrp4j.html with a brief summary
> of the project's status, pointing to this thread? That would help in
> avoiding repeated inquiries.
Will do.
>
>> ...David Taylor and myself got stuck again on this after a few months, because
>> we are unclear how to proceed and severe lack of time too.
>> It would be great if we can solicit some additional help with this as we
>> definitely would like to resolve this once and for all (no matter the
>> outcome).
>>
>> Both David and myself will be at the ApacheCon so maybe we can setup a
>> meeting then to discuss what can/needs to be done?...
>
> IMHO as far as the incubator is concerned, your explanations have
> clarified the project's status.
Ok, glad it helped.
>
> I'm not qualified to discuss the legal issue, so I think a meeting
> only makes sense if ASF people with sufficient legal knowledge can
> participate - the best might be for you to call for volunteers on the
> legal and general@incubator lists, in a separate thread.
Ok.
>
> thanks for the follow-ups,
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Ate,
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>> ...Does that patent issue mean that an ASF release of the WSRP4J would
>> not be safe from a legal point of view?...
>>
>> Or is it just that users might be afraid of using it?
>
> The patent claim (as it stands right now, but: IANAL) seems to require for
> any usage an *individual* license, e.g. there is no waver
> (yet) for the ASF to allow release and distribution without putting this
> burden onto the end users again.
> In my view, this would not be in compliance with the ASF license and thus a
> blocker for an ASF endorsed release...
Ok, so that looks like the core issue. And if the answer is that a
release cannot happen within the ASF, I think the code must move
elsewhere. That does not prevent it from coming back later if the
issue is resolved.
> ..Now, end users might or might now be afraid to use it.
> Its (again in my view, and again: IANAL) questionable to say the least if
> there would ever be a claim by this one patent holder, but legally
> it is unclear if/how we can make sure (so nor can the end-users) without
> having this go to court at least once or get this waver from the
> acclaimed patent holder....
Ok.
>> ...Assuming the legal issue can be worked out, would the portals PMC be
>> prepared to "adopt" the WSRP4J code and maintain it in the future?
>
> Definitely, and we already did (for as much as possible)!
> AFAIK The Portal PMC accepted long time ago to do so. This was before I
> became member though and I haven't be able to find concrete references in
> the mail archives for this....
> ...But the Portals PMC has taken responsibility for reporting WSRP4J status to
> the board, the code-base is hosted underneath the portals root folder in svn
> and the project website is also hosted under portals.apache.org....
Ok, so the project's status is kind of weird w.r.t the incubator, but
I guess we can accept this temporarily based on the legal blocker.
> ...Note: possibly part of the reason the WSRP4J status reports have not always
> been delivered is that the separate incubator status reports
> are not in schedule with the separate Portals status report, and of course
> that there hasn't been much to report either.
> But when it was, the *Portals* status reports also included the needed
> information to the board AFAIK....
Ok, that clarifies the missing incubator reports. Again, looks like
the project and code has been de facto accepted by the portals PMC,
without the incubator being really aware of that.
Could you maybe add a note to
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/wsrp4j.html with a brief summary
of the project's status, pointing to this thread? That would help in
avoiding repeated inquiries.
> ...David Taylor and myself got stuck again on this after a few months, because
> we are unclear how to proceed and severe lack of time too.
> It would be great if we can solicit some additional help with this as we
> definitely would like to resolve this once and for all (no matter the
> outcome).
>
> Both David and myself will be at the ApacheCon so maybe we can setup a
> meeting then to discuss what can/needs to be done?...
IMHO as far as the incubator is concerned, your explanations have
clarified the project's status.
I'm not qualified to discuss the legal issue, so I think a meeting
only makes sense if ASF people with sufficient legal knowledge can
participate - the best might be for you to call for volunteers on the
legal and general@incubator lists, in a separate thread.
thanks for the follow-ups,
-Bertrand
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi Ate,
>
> Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I'll comment on what's
> specific to the incubating status.
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>
>> ...The problem of course is that WSRP4J still is in incubation and to be honest
>> hasn't seem much activities for some years now.
>> Part of the reason in my view (and possibly a big one) is the *still* fuzzy
>> state of potential patent claims on WSRP 1.0....
>
> Does that patent issue mean that an ASF release of the WSRP4J would
> not be safe from a legal point of view?
>
> Or is it just that users might be afraid of using it?
The patent claim (as it stands right now, but: IANAL) seems to require for any usage an *individual* license, e.g. there is no waver
(yet) for the ASF to allow release and distribution without putting this burden onto the end users again.
In my view, this would not be in compliance with the ASF license and thus a blocker for an ASF endorsed release.
Now, end users might or might now be afraid to use it.
Its (again in my view, and again: IANAL) questionable to say the least if there would ever be a claim by this one patent holder, but legally
it is unclear if/how we can make sure (so nor can the end-users) without having this go to court at least once or get this waver from the
acclaimed patent holder.
>
>> ...We are in a kind of limbo here though: without proper developer and
>> community support how can it ever get out of incubator?...
>
> Assuming the legal issue can be worked out, would the portals PMC be
> prepared to "adopt" the WSRP4J code and maintain it in the future?
Definitely, and we already did (for as much as possible)!
AFAIK The Portal PMC accepted long time ago to do so. This was before I became member though and I haven't be able to find concrete
references in the mail archives for this.
But the Portals PMC has taken responsibility for reporting WSRP4J status to the board, the code-base is hosted underneath the portals root
folder in svn and the project website is also hosted under portals.apache.org.
Note: possibly part of the reason the WSRP4J status reports have not always been delivered is that the separate incubator status reports
are not in schedule with the separate Portals status report, and of course that there hasn't been much to report either.
But when it was, the *Portals* status reports also included the needed information to the board AFAIK.
>
>> ...If we can get a resolution on these legal issues soon, the state of the
>> project could be improved a lot in a short time (its not *that* big a
>> project to be honest), which I think then definitely will result in a much
>> more interested and growing community (there is a large group of silent
>> subscribers to the wsrp4j lists)....
>
> Do you have pointers to discussions on our legal lists (Message-Id
> would do), so that interested people can get more details?
As this was mostly done on legal-internal@, only people *really* interested and willing to help out might have/request access to this
restricted list (there can be potential legally implicating information so this is not for just casual access).
@Bertrand:
MessageID: <47...@douma.nu> is the starting point of a thread of currently 26 messages started early this year.
David Taylor and myself got stuck again on this after a few months, because we are unclear how to proceed and severe lack of time too.
It would be great if we can solicit some additional help with this as we definitely would like to resolve this once and for all (no matter
the outcome).
Both David and myself will be at the ApacheCon so maybe we can setup a meeting then to discuss what can/needs to be done?
Regards,
Ate
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi Ate,
>
> Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I'll comment on what's
> specific to the incubating status.
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>
>> ...The problem of course is that WSRP4J still is in incubation and to be honest
>> hasn't seem much activities for some years now.
>> Part of the reason in my view (and possibly a big one) is the *still* fuzzy
>> state of potential patent claims on WSRP 1.0....
>
> Does that patent issue mean that an ASF release of the WSRP4J would
> not be safe from a legal point of view?
>
> Or is it just that users might be afraid of using it?
The patent claim (as it stands right now, but: IANAL) seems to require for any usage an *individual* license, e.g. there is no waver
(yet) for the ASF to allow release and distribution without putting this burden onto the end users again.
In my view, this would not be in compliance with the ASF license and thus a blocker for an ASF endorsed release.
Now, end users might or might now be afraid to use it.
Its (again in my view, and again: IANAL) questionable to say the least if there would ever be a claim by this one patent holder, but legally
it is unclear if/how we can make sure (so nor can the end-users) without having this go to court at least once or get this waver from the
acclaimed patent holder.
>
>> ...We are in a kind of limbo here though: without proper developer and
>> community support how can it ever get out of incubator?...
>
> Assuming the legal issue can be worked out, would the portals PMC be
> prepared to "adopt" the WSRP4J code and maintain it in the future?
Definitely, and we already did (for as much as possible)!
AFAIK The Portal PMC accepted long time ago to do so. This was before I became member though and I haven't be able to find concrete
references in the mail archives for this.
But the Portals PMC has taken responsibility for reporting WSRP4J status to the board, the code-base is hosted underneath the portals root
folder in svn and the project website is also hosted under portals.apache.org.
Note: possibly part of the reason the WSRP4J status reports have not always been delivered is that the separate incubator status reports
are not in schedule with the separate Portals status report, and of course that there hasn't been much to report either.
But when it was, the *Portals* status reports also included the needed information to the board AFAIK.
>
>> ...If we can get a resolution on these legal issues soon, the state of the
>> project could be improved a lot in a short time (its not *that* big a
>> project to be honest), which I think then definitely will result in a much
>> more interested and growing community (there is a large group of silent
>> subscribers to the wsrp4j lists)....
>
> Do you have pointers to discussions on our legal lists (Message-Id
> would do), so that interested people can get more details?
As this was mostly done on legal-internal@, only people *really* interested and willing to help out might have/request access to this
restricted list (there can be potential legally implicating information so this is not for just casual access).
@Bertrand:
MessageID: <47...@douma.nu> is the starting point of a thread of currently 26 messages started early this year.
David Taylor and myself got stuck again on this after a few months, because we are unclear how to proceed and severe lack of time too.
It would be great if we can solicit some additional help with this as we definitely would like to resolve this once and for all (no matter
the outcome).
Both David and myself will be at the ApacheCon so maybe we can setup a meeting then to discuss what can/needs to be done?
Regards,
Ate
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Ate,
Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I'll comment on what's
specific to the incubating status.
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
> ...The problem of course is that WSRP4J still is in incubation and to be honest
> hasn't seem much activities for some years now.
> Part of the reason in my view (and possibly a big one) is the *still* fuzzy
> state of potential patent claims on WSRP 1.0....
Does that patent issue mean that an ASF release of the WSRP4J would
not be safe from a legal point of view?
Or is it just that users might be afraid of using it?
> ...We are in a kind of limbo here though: without proper developer and
> community support how can it ever get out of incubator?...
Assuming the legal issue can be worked out, would the portals PMC be
prepared to "adopt" the WSRP4J code and maintain it in the future?
> ...If we can get a resolution on these legal issues soon, the state of the
> project could be improved a lot in a short time (its not *that* big a
> project to be honest), which I think then definitely will result in a much
> more interested and growing community (there is a large group of silent
> subscribers to the wsrp4j lists)....
Do you have pointers to discussions on our legal lists (Message-Id
would do), so that interested people can get more details?
-Bertrand
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
I agree, the legal issue is the main reason there is no activity.
Ate Douma wrote:
>
>
> If we can get a resolution on these legal issues soon, the state of
> the project could be improved a lot in a short time (its not *that*
> big a project to be honest), which I think then definitely will result
> in a much more interested and growing community (there is a large
> group of silent subscribers to the wsrp4j lists).
> Without such a resolution on the legal status though, I'm afraid I
> can't nor want to invest valuable time in something which we then
> might never be able to use...
>
> Regards,
>
> Ate
>
>
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 6:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>> That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal
>> evaluation earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having
>> WSRP 2.0 support during this year. The spec was finally approved this
>> year.
>>
>> I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I can't
>> find them now.
>>
>
> My observation is there hasn't been much interest in the project or the
> standard.There are so many issues related to the project that, unless
> someone steps up and starts working on this project, Im afraid its going
> to continue down the same path.
> I would hate to see that happen. If this standard is relevant, then we
> really should support this standard here at Apache Portals.
I want lto second this, and add some additional information and opinion.
In my view WSRP(4J) might very well become much more important in the near future, definitely with the improvements and alignment with the
Portlet 2.0 (JSR-286) specification of the latest WSRP 2.0.
In the last year I have had concrete requests from several (extremely) large organizations, both governmental and commercial, for support
and general information about the status of WSRP4J. And I've been involved in an actual test/evaluation project for the Dutch government to
validate the feasibility to use WSRP to integrate and *standardize* application integration across organizations.
That test project, while still limited in scope, was quite successful and very well might lead to follow up activities.
The definite increase in adoption of portal and portlet technology we are experiencing, especially in the area of
cross-application/organization integration, in my view shows that the market is finally recognizing the real benefits of these solutions
based on open standards.
The problem of course is that WSRP4J still is in incubation and to be honest hasn't seem much activities for some years now.
Part of the reason in my view (and possibly a big one) is the *still* fuzzy state of potential patent claims on WSRP 1.0.
David Taylor and myself have been pursuing this over the last year to get resolved, but we're kind of stuck with that right now.
Lack of time is large part of the reason, but also lack of insight and experience how to proceed (note: we have been in contact with
legal-internal@ too).
Anyway, I think WSRP4J *can* have a great usage and interest *if* we can get it stabilized, spec compliant, ASF license compliant (like
currently there is some Hibernate usage still in the code base), *and* out of the incubator.
To be clear on this: WSRP4J already *is* used quite a lot, even while its not formally endorsed by the ASF yet.
Several other open-source portals are using it: at least Liferay, uPortal, and even Cocoon Portal (not sure if that's still true though).
Furthermore, I've knowledge it has been forked and adapted by and for several closed source solutions as well.
And not to forget: IBM donated the initial code-base for WSRP4J so they might very well be using it themselves too.
We are in a kind of limbo here though: without proper developer and community support how can it ever get out of incubator?
But, because its not formally endorsed, those big clients like I mentioned above won't/can't touch it and thus are likely going looking
somewhere else.
I for one, and I know a few other (also committers) would definitely like to breath new life into the WSRP4J project and for instance get it
integrated and provided out-of-the-box with Jetspeed.
If we can get a resolution on these legal issues soon, the state of the project could be improved a lot in a short time (its not *that* big
a project to be honest), which I think then definitely will result in a much more interested and growing community (there is a large group
of silent subscribers to the wsrp4j lists).
Without such a resolution on the legal status though, I'm afraid I can't nor want to invest valuable time in something which we then might
never be able to use...
Regards,
Ate
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 6:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>> That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal
>> evaluation earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having
>> WSRP 2.0 support during this year. The spec was finally approved this
>> year.
>>
>> I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I can't
>> find them now.
>>
>
> My observation is there hasn't been much interest in the project or the
> standard.There are so many issues related to the project that, unless
> someone steps up and starts working on this project, Im afraid its going
> to continue down the same path.
> I would hate to see that happen. If this standard is relevant, then we
> really should support this standard here at Apache Portals.
I want lto second this, and add some additional information and opinion.
In my view WSRP(4J) might very well become much more important in the near future, definitely with the improvements and alignment with the
Portlet 2.0 (JSR-286) specification of the latest WSRP 2.0.
In the last year I have had concrete requests from several (extremely) large organizations, both governmental and commercial, for support
and general information about the status of WSRP4J. And I've been involved in an actual test/evaluation project for the Dutch government to
validate the feasibility to use WSRP to integrate and *standardize* application integration across organizations.
That test project, while still limited in scope, was quite successful and very well might lead to follow up activities.
The definite increase in adoption of portal and portlet technology we are experiencing, especially in the area of
cross-application/organization integration, in my view shows that the market is finally recognizing the real benefits of these solutions
based on open standards.
The problem of course is that WSRP4J still is in incubation and to be honest hasn't seem much activities for some years now.
Part of the reason in my view (and possibly a big one) is the *still* fuzzy state of potential patent claims on WSRP 1.0.
David Taylor and myself have been pursuing this over the last year to get resolved, but we're kind of stuck with that right now.
Lack of time is large part of the reason, but also lack of insight and experience how to proceed (note: we have been in contact with
legal-internal@ too).
Anyway, I think WSRP4J *can* have a great usage and interest *if* we can get it stabilized, spec compliant, ASF license compliant (like
currently there is some Hibernate usage still in the code base), *and* out of the incubator.
To be clear on this: WSRP4J already *is* used quite a lot, even while its not formally endorsed by the ASF yet.
Several other open-source portals are using it: at least Liferay, uPortal, and even Cocoon Portal (not sure if that's still true though).
Furthermore, I've knowledge it has been forked and adapted by and for several closed source solutions as well.
And not to forget: IBM donated the initial code-base for WSRP4J so they might very well be using it themselves too.
We are in a kind of limbo here though: without proper developer and community support how can it ever get out of incubator?
But, because its not formally endorsed, those big clients like I mentioned above won't/can't touch it and thus are likely going looking
somewhere else.
I for one, and I know a few other (also committers) would definitely like to breath new life into the WSRP4J project and for instance get it
integrated and provided out-of-the-box with Jetspeed.
If we can get a resolution on these legal issues soon, the state of the project could be improved a lot in a short time (its not *that* big
a project to be honest), which I think then definitely will result in a much more interested and growing community (there is a large group
of silent subscribers to the wsrp4j lists).
Without such a resolution on the legal status though, I'm afraid I can't nor want to invest valuable time in something which we then might
never be able to use...
Regards,
Ate
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by David Sean Taylor <da...@bluesunrise.com>.
On Oct 23, 2008, at 6:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal
> evaluation earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having
> WSRP 2.0 support during this year. The spec was finally approved
> this year.
>
> I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I
> can't find them now.
>
My observation is there hasn't been much interest in the project or
the standard.There are so many issues related to the project that,
unless someone steps up and starts working on this project, Im afraid
its going to continue down the same path.
I would hate to see that happen. If this standard is relevant, then we
really should support this standard here at Apache Portals.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by David Sean Taylor <da...@bluesunrise.com>.
On Oct 23, 2008, at 6:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal
> evaluation earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having
> WSRP 2.0 support during this year. The spec was finally approved
> this year.
>
> I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I
> can't find them now.
>
My observation is there hasn't been much interest in the project or
the standard.There are so many issues related to the project that,
unless someone steps up and starts working on this project, Im afraid
its going to continue down the same path.
I would hate to see that happen. If this standard is relevant, then we
really should support this standard here at Apache Portals.
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal evaluation
earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having WSRP 2.0
support during this year. The spec was finally approved this year.
I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I can't
find them now.
Ralph
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> I don't know what the exact status is, but David (our portals pmc chair)
> was following up on this. I'm including general@portals as portals is
> the sponsor of this project.
>
> Carsten
>
> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> According to clutch, WSRP4J has been incubating for 1876 days...
>>
>> Did not report at all this year AFAIK, and not much seems to be
>> happening on the project lists [1]
>>
>> The code is in the portals svn space [3] with no disclaimer.
>>
>> About a year ago [2] Carsten mentioned a pending license issue that
>> was blocking the project.
>>
>> I think it's time to do something with that podling - if the code is
>> fine but not suitable for Apache licensing it's probably better to
>> move it somewhere else.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> [1] http://portals.apache.org/wsrp4j/contributing/mail.html
>> [2] http://markmail.org/message/weuvsdg5fxh62yw2
>> [3] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/portals/wsrp4j/trunk/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
That is a very good question. I do know that we did a portal evaluation
earlier this year and every vendor was planning on having WSRP 2.0
support during this year. The spec was finally approved this year.
I seem to recall the OASIS site had links to the encumbrances. I can't
find them now.
Ralph
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> I don't know what the exact status is, but David (our portals pmc chair)
> was following up on this. I'm including general@portals as portals is
> the sponsor of this project.
>
> Carsten
>
> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> According to clutch, WSRP4J has been incubating for 1876 days...
>>
>> Did not report at all this year AFAIK, and not much seems to be
>> happening on the project lists [1]
>>
>> The code is in the portals svn space [3] with no disclaimer.
>>
>> About a year ago [2] Carsten mentioned a pending license issue that
>> was blocking the project.
>>
>> I think it's time to do something with that podling - if the code is
>> fine but not suitable for Apache licensing it's probably better to
>> move it somewhere else.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> [1] http://portals.apache.org/wsrp4j/contributing/mail.html
>> [2] http://markmail.org/message/weuvsdg5fxh62yw2
>> [3] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/portals/wsrp4j/trunk/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
I don't know what the exact status is, but David (our portals pmc chair)
was following up on this. I'm including general@portals as portals is
the sponsor of this project.
Carsten
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> According to clutch, WSRP4J has been incubating for 1876 days...
>
> Did not report at all this year AFAIK, and not much seems to be
> happening on the project lists [1]
>
> The code is in the portals svn space [3] with no disclaimer.
>
> About a year ago [2] Carsten mentioned a pending license issue that
> was blocking the project.
>
> I think it's time to do something with that podling - if the code is
> fine but not suitable for Apache licensing it's probably better to
> move it somewhere else.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> [1] http://portals.apache.org/wsrp4j/contributing/mail.html
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/weuvsdg5fxh62yw2
> [3] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/portals/wsrp4j/trunk/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What's up with WSRP4J?
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
I don't know what the exact status is, but David (our portals pmc chair)
was following up on this. I'm including general@portals as portals is
the sponsor of this project.
Carsten
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> According to clutch, WSRP4J has been incubating for 1876 days...
>
> Did not report at all this year AFAIK, and not much seems to be
> happening on the project lists [1]
>
> The code is in the portals svn space [3] with no disclaimer.
>
> About a year ago [2] Carsten mentioned a pending license issue that
> was blocking the project.
>
> I think it's time to do something with that podling - if the code is
> fine but not suitable for Apache licensing it's probably better to
> move it somewhere else.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> [1] http://portals.apache.org/wsrp4j/contributing/mail.html
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/weuvsdg5fxh62yw2
> [3] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/portals/wsrp4j/trunk/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org