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Posted to dev@velocity.apache.org by Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> on 2007/01/28 23:25:52 UTC
[VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
releases.
The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
[ ] +1 Yes.
[ ] 0 I still don't care.
[ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
Vote period is
Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
Best regards
Henning
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 2007-01-28 at 23:25 +0100, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
> [X] +1 Yes.
> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by ap...@recks.org.
+1 from me!
:) Christoph
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> releases.
>
> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>
> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>
> [ ] +1 Yes.
> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>
> Vote period is
>
> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>
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RE: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Marinó A. Jónsson" <ma...@centrum.is>.
+1 ... missed the first one - nice to be able to put in a vote :D
-----Original Message-----
From: dev-return-16962-marinoj=centrum.is@velocity.apache.org
[mailto:dev-return-16962-marinoj=centrum.is@velocity.apache.org] On Behalf
Of Henning Schmiedehausen
Sent: 28. janúar 2007 22:26
To: dev@velocity.apache.org
Cc: private@velocity.apache.org
Subject: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to repeat
the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled releases.
The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
[ ] +1 Yes.
[ ] 0 I still don't care.
[ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
Vote period is
Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
Best regards
Henning
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit se
On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
>
> :(
>
> > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under JDK
> > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked all
> > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
> > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
>
> C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find. I'm all
> for getting things right, but not for holding back releases based on
> one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
> release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
>
> > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent bad
> > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote on the
> > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems. We've a
> > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
> > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation for
> > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
>
> We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
> about, then let's get this thing moving again.
>
> > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
> > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems fine.
> > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
> > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
> > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a few
> > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
>
> How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
> release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
> let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust me, if
> i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
> major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for most
> code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow bugs"
> theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer people
> bother with release candidates and betas.
>
> > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2 had no
> > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build process in
> > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
> > worked from the source distribution but not the released package. No
> > one found this problem for a month.
>
> And it's fixed, is it not?
>
> > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in the
> > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
> > responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications of the
> > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a release
> > at the end of January.
>
> Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one thing,
> if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
> responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
> satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
> letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
> please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute. That's
> not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
>
> > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was effective. We
> > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new features. The
> > code is branched and close to perfect.
>
> it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe it will
> get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
>
> > Docs are set, readme is
> > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
> > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
> > release.
> >
> > WILL
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > [echo]
> > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
> > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
> > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
> > [anakia]
> > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must end with
> > a '>' delimiter.
> > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
> >
> > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> > > releases.
> > >
> > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
> > >
> > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
> > >
> > > [ ] +1 Yes.
> > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
> > >
> > > Vote period is
> > >
> > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Henning
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-help@velocity.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Forio Business Simulations
> >
> > Will Glass-Husain
> > wglass@forio.com
> > www.forio.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>
--
Forio Business Simulations
Will Glass-Husain
wglass@forio.com
www.forio.com
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 1:52 AM, Will Glass-Husain wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit send.
You did the right thing. This is what the oversight processes here
at the ASF are about.
>
> Three quick notes.
>
> 1) don't think the changes are big. But I think the distro should be
> reviewed and fixed. A bad hyperlink on the main menu, in our first
> release in 3 years, looks sloppy and conveys an inaccurate impression
> of the quality of our product.
>
> 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
> package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
> I don't like it.
That's why I advocate having no manual steps to re-create the
release. If you are lucky, you have everything happen in HEAD.
Then, tag *that*, and do misc tweaks if needed.
Also, the "vote or delay" was simply due to special circumstances,
not regular practice.
>
> 3) I'd be happy to vote +1 if we could call this Velocity 1.5rc1. But
> given the historic significance of this release, I urge us to release
> "Velocity 1.5" in a professional distro without obvious errors. (no
> need to immediately issue Velocity 1.5.1).
I think an rc1 should be as perfect as much as possible as well -
calling it RC means (to me) -" this is what we'd like to release,
anything obvious we missed?" and engage the public on it. That's
what we used to do, IIRC, around here :)
So yeah, this could be RC1, but to do that, I'd prefer to see
something sane done like
velocity/engine/branches/1.5
tags/1.5RC1
and have that released w/ RC1 in the right places. Then we wait
until Henning gets back from lounging about for 6 weeks :) fix
anything the community found, and go for 1.5
geir
>
> best,
> WILL
>
>
>
> On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
>>
>> :(
>>
>> > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under
>> JDK
>> > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked
>> all
>> > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
>> > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
>>
>> C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find. I'm all
>> for getting things right, but not for holding back releases based on
>> one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
>> release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
>>
>> > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent
>> bad
>> > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote
>> on the
>> > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems.
>> We've a
>> > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
>> > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation
>> for
>> > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
>>
>> We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
>> about, then let's get this thing moving again.
>>
>> > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
>> > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems
>> fine.
>> > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
>> > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
>> > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a
>> few
>> > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
>>
>> How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
>> release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
>> let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust
>> me, if
>> i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
>> major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for most
>> code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow bugs"
>> theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer people
>> bother with release candidates and betas.
>>
>> > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2
>> had no
>> > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build
>> process in
>> > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
>> > worked from the source distribution but not the released
>> package. No
>> > one found this problem for a month.
>>
>> And it's fixed, is it not?
>>
>> > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in
>> the
>> > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
>> > responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications
>> of the
>> > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a
>> release
>> > at the end of January.
>>
>> Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one thing,
>> if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
>> responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
>> satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
>> letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
>> please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute. That's
>> not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
>>
>> > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was
>> effective. We
>> > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new
>> features. The
>> > code is branched and close to perfect.
>>
>> it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe it
>> will
>> get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
>>
>> > Docs are set, readme is
>> > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
>> > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
>> > release.
>> >
>> > WILL
>> >
>> >
>> > [1]
>> > [echo]
>> > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
>> > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
>> > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
>> > [anakia]
>> > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must
>> end with
>> > a '>' delimiter.
>> > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
>> >
>> > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually
>> have to
>> > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really
>> rolled
>> > > releases.
>> > >
>> > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available
>> from
>> > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>> > >
>> > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>> > >
>> > > [ ] +1 Yes.
>> > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
>> > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>> > >
>> > > Vote period is
>> > >
>> > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>> > >
>> > > Best regards
>> > > Henning
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-help@velocity.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Forio Business Simulations
>> >
>> > Will Glass-Husain
>> > wglass@forio.com
>> > www.forio.com
>> >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Forio Business Simulations
>
> Will Glass-Husain
> wglass@forio.com
> www.forio.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Nathan Bubna" <nb...@gmail.com> writes:
>test build == unreleased build to be tested then voted upon
>hold on, i'm dropping this email and starting another. we have to get
>our terms and release processes straight or we'll never find
>consensus.
+1. I'd like to encourage Geir and Will to start a Wiki page and
outline a process here. Also a terms definition would be nice.
Best regards
Henning
--
Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux,
91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy
"Save the cheerleader. Save the world."
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to clarify...
>
> > > 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
> > > package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
>
> > no. we did have a test build and veltools did not.
> > test build == unreleased build to be tested then voted upon
>
> What I meant is that there was no opportunity to offer fixes upon this
> build before voting. Due to the timing, Henning put that last touches
> on the build then called for a vote. Obviously, I'd much prefer to
> just have added the missing page to the Velocity 1.5 branch, but
> according to our recently clarified rules, I can't fix this and have
> this vote apply to that fix. We have to vote on a specific
> distribution.
build or branch? let's not confuse those.
that said, yes, it feels like 1.5 is caught on procedural
technicalities when the code is good and we all want to see it
released. :(
> As a side question, is there a required voting period? It seems
> pretty obvious to me that we could do another vote and with everyone
> saying yes quickly, perhaps allowing Henning to still make this
> happen. Though I'd like to see an rc, I wouldn't insist on it.
i don't know. i also don't know why we're just expecting Henning to
make this happen, when he's probably got enough to do with getting
ready to travel, and he isn't the one with itches left to scratch on
this release.
> WILL
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
Just to clarify...
> > 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
> > package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
> no. we did have a test build and veltools did not.
> test build == unreleased build to be tested then voted upon
What I meant is that there was no opportunity to offer fixes upon this
build before voting. Due to the timing, Henning put that last touches
on the build then called for a vote. Obviously, I'd much prefer to
just have added the missing page to the Velocity 1.5 branch, but
according to our recently clarified rules, I can't fix this and have
this vote apply to that fix. We have to vote on a specific
distribution.
As a side question, is there a required voting period? It seems
pretty obvious to me that we could do another vote and with everyone
saying yes quickly, perhaps allowing Henning to still make this
happen. Though I'd like to see an rc, I wouldn't insist on it.
WILL
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit send.
no, no. we still like you. just not your decision. :)
> Three quick notes.
>
> 1) don't think the changes are big. But I think the distro should be
> reviewed and fixed. A bad hyperlink on the main menu, in our first
> release in 3 years, looks sloppy and conveys an inaccurate impression
> of the quality of our product.
review and fix away!
> 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
> package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
> I don't like it.
no. we did have a test build and veltools did not.
test build == unreleased build to be tested then voted upon
hold on, i'm dropping this email and starting another. we have to get
our terms and release processes straight or we'll never find
consensus.
> 3) I'd be happy to vote +1 if we could call this Velocity 1.5rc1. But
> given the historic significance of this release, I urge us to release
> "Velocity 1.5" in a professional distro without obvious errors. (no
> need to immediately issue Velocity 1.5.1).
>
> best,
> WILL
>
>
>
> On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
> >
> > :(
> >
> > > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under JDK
> > > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked all
> > > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
> > > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
> >
> > C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find. I'm all
> > for getting things right, but not for holding back releases based on
> > one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
> > release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
> >
> > > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent bad
> > > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote on the
> > > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems. We've a
> > > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
> > > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation for
> > > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
> >
> > We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
> > about, then let's get this thing moving again.
> >
> > > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
> > > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems fine.
> > > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
> > > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
> > > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a few
> > > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
> >
> > How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
> > release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
> > let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust me, if
> > i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
> > major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for most
> > code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow bugs"
> > theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer people
> > bother with release candidates and betas.
> >
> > > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2 had no
> > > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build process in
> > > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
> > > worked from the source distribution but not the released package. No
> > > one found this problem for a month.
> >
> > And it's fixed, is it not?
> >
> > > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in the
> > > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
> > > responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications of the
> > > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a release
> > > at the end of January.
> >
> > Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one thing,
> > if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
> > responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
> > satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
> > letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
> > please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute. That's
> > not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
> >
> > > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was effective. We
> > > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new features. The
> > > code is branched and close to perfect.
> >
> > it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe it will
> > get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
> >
> > > Docs are set, readme is
> > > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
> > > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
> > > release.
> > >
> > > WILL
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > [echo]
> > > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
> > > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
> > > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
> > > [anakia]
> > > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must end with
> > > a '>' delimiter.
> > > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
> > >
> > > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> > > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> > > > releases.
> > > >
> > > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> > > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
> > > >
> > > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
> > > >
> > > > [ ] +1 Yes.
> > > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> > > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
> > > >
> > > > Vote period is
> > > >
> > > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > > Henning
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-help@velocity.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Forio Business Simulations
> > >
> > > Will Glass-Husain
> > > wglass@forio.com
> > > www.forio.com
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Forio Business Simulations
>
> Will Glass-Husain
> wglass@forio.com
> www.forio.com
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com> writes:
>
>>> because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is being
>>> built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no luck
>>> yet.
>
>> Then I'd argue this shouldn't be our site until this is fixed :)
>
> Geir,
>
> sorry for me starting to lose my patience here, but this is the thing:
>
> Between November '06 and now I tried to make the new velocity project
> site and the engine docs to be an as good user experience as can be.
>
> I put a lot of work in this using maven. There have been a number of
> things sprouted from here that you can review under site/tools. I also
> found enough bugs in maven and its components to fill a small
> folder. That is how open source works. Especially open source that
> tries to be somewhat on the "Leading wave".
>
> Up until now, all you did was saying "I don't like this". "I'm
> concerned about this". "I'd argue that we do it differently".
I don't recall. I'm usually not that prescient.
>
> The thing is: That is not helping. Actually, it is frustrating in a
> big way.
>
> I'd like you to spent some time to take a look at what is there, not
> what you would like to have (and then seem to expect to appear
> automagically).
I didn't ask you to change anything, IIRC.
> If you find things missing, being less than ideal, I'd
> encourage you to either
>
> a) fix it
> b) open issues for it
>
> Please review wheter doing neither a) nor b) but just leaning back and
> saying "I'd argue that this should not be our site until it is fixed"
> is really a constructive and encouraging way to work in a (regrettably
> small) developer community.
Henning - what you are saying is that you broke it and you want me to
fix it? I'm not sure I like that. I tend to believe that except
when people agree to do the contrary, it's a good idea to ensure that
any works-in-progress remain uncommitted, or in a branch or
whiteboard, to ensure that there's a working configuration available
to anyone to work with.
I haven't commented on the site, the quality of it or anything like
that. I simply noted surprise that we have a site that only you can
build, and noted that maybe that shouldn't actually be the official
project site until that's fixed.
geir
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
> --
> Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux,
> 91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person
> Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy
>
> "Save the cheerleader. Save the world."
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
What comments from the PRC?
On Jan 31, 2007, at 11:45 PM, Will Glass-Husain wrote:
> Ok, I didn't want to step on Henning's toes by doing this too soon.
> I'm guessing he's wrapping up and getting ready for his big trip. We
> can address the site update immediately following the release.
>
> Incidentally, the press release is coming along. The PRC has given
> useful comments. I'm still working on getting a quote from a
> commercial user. Claude has agreed to be the European contact for the
> press and I'll be listed as the US contact.
>
> WILL
>
>
> On 1/31/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're willing to do the release, go for it. Put the fixes in the
>> VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH, roll a test build, upload it, point us to it,
>> and
>> then call for a vote. Updating the site is a secondary thing. We
>> can
>> figure that out when we get to it.
>>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/31/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, I didn't want to step on Henning's toes by doing this too soon.
> I'm guessing he's wrapping up and getting ready for his big trip. We
> can address the site update immediately following the release.
if he's planning to do the fixes and put up a new test build, i
haven't heard him say it. at this point, i think it'd be a nice
gesture of cooperation if you were to step up and help.
> Incidentally, the press release is coming along. The PRC has given
> useful comments. I'm still working on getting a quote from a
> commercial user. Claude has agreed to be the European contact for the
> press and I'll be listed as the US contact.
that's great! perhaps we could put out a request for commercial
soundbites on the user list?
> WILL
>
>
> On 1/31/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you're willing to do the release, go for it. Put the fixes in the
> > VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH, roll a test build, upload it, point us to it, and
> > then call for a vote. Updating the site is a secondary thing. We can
> > figure that out when we get to it.
> >
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
Ok, I didn't want to step on Henning's toes by doing this too soon.
I'm guessing he's wrapping up and getting ready for his big trip. We
can address the site update immediately following the release.
Incidentally, the press release is coming along. The PRC has given
useful comments. I'm still working on getting a quote from a
commercial user. Claude has agreed to be the European contact for the
press and I'll be listed as the US contact.
WILL
On 1/31/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're willing to do the release, go for it. Put the fixes in the
> VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH, roll a test build, upload it, point us to it, and
> then call for a vote. Updating the site is a secondary thing. We can
> figure that out when we get to it.
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/31/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Quick note at 6AM. (always dangerous to send email 15 min after getting up).
>
> How about if I just drop my concerns about the lack of an rc, and just
> ask - is there any way we can issue a release "Velocity 1.5" with the
> anakia documentation fixed? It's a small patch to two files to fix
> the xdoc that has already been applied to trunk.
Yes. We have not had an official 1.5 release, only a test build.
Our next release can be either 1.5 or 1.5-rc1 or whatever.
> Again, I'd be happy to do the release - perhaps we could get the site
> ready, archive it, then copy the release over when ready?
If you're willing to do the release, go for it. Put the fixes in the
VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH, roll a test build, upload it, point us to it, and
then call for a vote. Updating the site is a secondary thing. We can
figure that out when we get to it.
> I really like the new site organization. I assume these Maven issues
> are a temporary thing. If it becomes too onerous we might just back
> out the specific site features in the short term.
agreed. and i'm also not aware of any reason that we can't just go in
and tweak the html by hand if we need to. the site can be dealt with.
get the release up to you standards and release it. i'm growing
quite weary of talking about it.
> WILL
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Claude Brisson <cl...@renegat.net>.
Keep sending mail early in the morning! I find this one very
constructive.
Le mercredi 31 janvier 2007 à 06:20 -0800, Will Glass-Husain a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> Quick note at 6AM. (always dangerous to send email 15 min after getting up).
>
> How about if I just drop my concerns about the lack of an rc, and just
> ask - is there any way we can issue a release "Velocity 1.5" with the
> anakia documentation fixed? It's a small patch to two files to fix
> the xdoc that has already been applied to trunk.
"1.5" is a good marketing choice... keep it simple... the very few
people enough curious to find the download link of the not yet public
"1.5" release should be clever enough to correctly update their
dependencies and shouldn't be drastically impacted by the missing docfix
in Anakia.
Claude
> Again, I'd be happy to do the release - perhaps we could get the site
> ready, archive it, then copy the release over when ready?
>
> I really like the new site organization. I assume these Maven issues
> are a temporary thing. If it becomes too onerous we might just back
> out the specific site features in the short term.
>
> WILL
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Quick note at 6AM. (always dangerous to send email 15 min after getting up).
How about if I just drop my concerns about the lack of an rc, and just
ask - is there any way we can issue a release "Velocity 1.5" with the
anakia documentation fixed? It's a small patch to two files to fix
the xdoc that has already been applied to trunk.
Again, I'd be happy to do the release - perhaps we could get the site
ready, archive it, then copy the release over when ready?
I really like the new site organization. I assume these Maven issues
are a temporary thing. If it becomes too onerous we might just back
out the specific site features in the short term.
WILL
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com> writes:
>> because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is being
>> built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no luck
>> yet.
>Then I'd argue this shouldn't be our site until this is fixed :)
Geir,
sorry for me starting to lose my patience here, but this is the thing:
Between November '06 and now I tried to make the new velocity project
site and the engine docs to be an as good user experience as can be.
I put a lot of work in this using maven. There have been a number of
things sprouted from here that you can review under site/tools. I also
found enough bugs in maven and its components to fill a small
folder. That is how open source works. Especially open source that
tries to be somewhat on the "Leading wave".
Up until now, all you did was saying "I don't like this". "I'm
concerned about this". "I'd argue that we do it differently".
The thing is: That is not helping. Actually, it is frustrating in a
big way.
I'd like you to spent some time to take a look at what is there, not
what you would like to have (and then seem to expect to appear
automagically). If you find things missing, being less than ideal, I'd
encourage you to either
a) fix it
b) open issues for it
Please review wheter doing neither a) nor b) but just leaning back and
saying "I'd argue that this should not be our site until it is fixed"
is really a constructive and encouraging way to work in a (regrettably
small) developer community.
Best regards
Henning
--
Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux,
91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy
"Save the cheerleader. Save the world."
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 11:07 PM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
> On 1/31/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:40 PM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
>>
>> > On 1/31/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 31, 2007, at 5:54 AM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> > ...
>> >> >> Why is he the only one that can do the site?
>> >> >
>> >> > because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is
>> being
>> >> > built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no
>> >> luck
>> >> > yet.
>> >>
>> >> Then I'd argue this shouldn't be our site until this is fixed :)
>> >
>> > Sorry, it's a little late for argument. :( this is our first go at
>> > our TLP site.
>>
>> But the TLP site could have been a slightly agumented older site.
>
> ah... hindsight. yeah, it could've, at least until the new one was
> totally ready. we didn't expect so many problems, and even now i feel
> like getting things sorted with Maven2 is the path of least resistance
> and will be more useful in the long run. again, YMMV.
I'm sure it's going to be great. But it wasn't really much
'hindsight' on my part to suggest using the existing site. I mean,
when Harmony went TLP, I switched a few URLs and <poof> a site for
Harmony the TLP...
>
>> > we didn't have one, Henning made one that worked for
>> > him and believed he had left sufficient instructions for others to
>> > copy. Turns out it wasn't so simple (at least for me, YMMV).
>> No one
>> > foresaw this, and fixes and further effort are in the pipeline.
>> If i
>> > understand the situation fully, the options facing each of us
>> here are
>> > a) jump in and help, b) replace it entirely with something more
>> > workable, or c) wait for someone else to do a) or b). personally,
>> > i'm planning to find time for a).
>>
>> Great. But don't give me flak for suggesting that having only one
>> person able to build is suboptimal.
>
> heh. sorry, but it'd be really hard not to come back with a "thanks,
> Captain Obvious" to something like that. ;-) seriously, we all know
> it's not good, and Henning's not the only working on changing that
> status. help and/or patience are appreciated.
<sigh>
geir
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/31/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:40 PM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
>
> > On 1/31/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Jan 31, 2007, at 5:54 AM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> > ...
> >> >> Why is he the only one that can do the site?
> >> >
> >> > because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is being
> >> > built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no
> >> luck
> >> > yet.
> >>
> >> Then I'd argue this shouldn't be our site until this is fixed :)
> >
> > Sorry, it's a little late for argument. :( this is our first go at
> > our TLP site.
>
> But the TLP site could have been a slightly agumented older site.
ah... hindsight. yeah, it could've, at least until the new one was
totally ready. we didn't expect so many problems, and even now i feel
like getting things sorted with Maven2 is the path of least resistance
and will be more useful in the long run. again, YMMV.
> > we didn't have one, Henning made one that worked for
> > him and believed he had left sufficient instructions for others to
> > copy. Turns out it wasn't so simple (at least for me, YMMV). No one
> > foresaw this, and fixes and further effort are in the pipeline. If i
> > understand the situation fully, the options facing each of us here are
> > a) jump in and help, b) replace it entirely with something more
> > workable, or c) wait for someone else to do a) or b). personally,
> > i'm planning to find time for a).
>
> Great. But don't give me flak for suggesting that having only one
> person able to build is suboptimal.
heh. sorry, but it'd be really hard not to come back with a "thanks,
Captain Obvious" to something like that. ;-) seriously, we all know
it's not good, and Henning's not the only working on changing that
status. help and/or patience are appreciated.
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:40 PM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
> On 1/31/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2007, at 5:54 AM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
>>
>> > On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >>
> ...
>> >> Why is he the only one that can do the site?
>> >
>> > because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is being
>> > built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no
>> luck
>> > yet.
>>
>> Then I'd argue this shouldn't be our site until this is fixed :)
>
> Sorry, it's a little late for argument. :( this is our first go at
> our TLP site.
But the TLP site could have been a slightly agumented older site.
> we didn't have one, Henning made one that worked for
> him and believed he had left sufficient instructions for others to
> copy. Turns out it wasn't so simple (at least for me, YMMV). No one
> foresaw this, and fixes and further effort are in the pipeline. If i
> understand the situation fully, the options facing each of us here are
> a) jump in and help, b) replace it entirely with something more
> workable, or c) wait for someone else to do a) or b). personally,
> i'm planning to find time for a).
Great. But don't give me flak for suggesting that having only one
person able to build is suboptimal.
geir
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/31/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 31, 2007, at 5:54 AM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
>
> > On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
...
> >> Why is he the only one that can do the site?
> >
> > because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is being
> > built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no luck
> > yet.
>
> Then I'd argue this shouldn't be our site until this is fixed :)
Sorry, it's a little late for argument. :( this is our first go at
our TLP site. we didn't have one, Henning made one that worked for
him and believed he had left sufficient instructions for others to
copy. Turns out it wasn't so simple (at least for me, YMMV). No one
foresaw this, and fixes and further effort are in the pipeline. If i
understand the situation fully, the options facing each of us here are
a) jump in and help, b) replace it entirely with something more
workable, or c) wait for someone else to do a) or b). personally,
i'm planning to find time for a).
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 5:54 AM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
> On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2007, at 3:48 AM, Will Glass-Husain wrote:
>>
>> > I thought about this a little more. There's a couple things we
>> can do
>> > that I'd support.
>> >
>> > (1) Figure out a way to call this release something other than
>> > Velocity 1.5, e.g. Velocity 1.5rc1 and issue the release
>> immediately.
>> > Can we do this without a 3 day vote?
>>
>> See my other response. Why the rush? If Henning has to go vacation,
>> then you do the RC1 stuff, and we'll wait until he gets back for the
>> 1.5 GA release.
>>
>> >
>> > (2) Take a little time to make the minor fix required, then release
>> > the software. I can step up to do this over the next few days. I
>> > think Henning was concerned we'd need to rebuild the site and
>> he's the
>> > only one that can do that. If I managed the release, I'd probably
>> > want to do Velocity 1.5rc1 first and then Velocity 1.5 two weeks
>> > later.
>>
>> Why is he the only one that can do the site?
>
> because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is being
> built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no luck
> yet.
Then I'd argue this shouldn't be our site until this is fixed :)
>
>> >
>> > (3) Henning remains release manager and we wait until March for the
>> > release. We could leave the VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH up so that the
>> > release is ready to go. We can also direct users interested in 1.5
>> > specific features to that svn branch.
>>
>> Right. Do the fixes in the branch, then make a
>>
>> tag/1.5rc1
>>
>> build, vote and release as RC1.
>>
>> When Henning gets back, do 1.5 GA. Advantage is that people get to
>> beat 1.5RC1 about for a month.
>>
>> geir
>>
>> >
>> > I'm sure our European community is long abed, I'll look for
>> comments
>> > from them in the morning.
>> >
>> > WILL
>> >
>> > On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit send.
>> >>
>> >> Three quick notes.
>> >>
>> >> 1) don't think the changes are big. But I think the distro
>> should be
>> >> reviewed and fixed. A bad hyperlink on the main menu, in our
>> first
>> >> release in 3 years, looks sloppy and conveys an inaccurate
>> impression
>> >> of the quality of our product.
>> >>
>> >> 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the
>> final
>> >> package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the
>> release".
>> >> I don't like it.
>> >>
>> >> 3) I'd be happy to vote +1 if we could call this Velocity 1.5rc1.
>> >> But
>> >> given the historic significance of this release, I urge us to
>> release
>> >> "Velocity 1.5" in a professional distro without obvious errors.
>> >> (no
>> >> need to immediately issue Velocity 1.5.1).
>> >>
>> >> best,
>> >> WILL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > Hi all,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
>> >> >
>> >> > :(
>> >> >
>> >> > > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine
>> >> under JDK
>> >> > > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I
>> >> checked all
>> >> > > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error
>> >> when
>> >> > > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution
>> [1].
>> >> >
>> >> > C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find.
>> >> I'm all
>> >> > for getting things right, but not for holding back releases
>> >> based on
>> >> > one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
>> >> > release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
>> >> >
>> >> > > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a
>> >> prominent bad
>> >> > > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote
>> >> on the
>> >> > > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems.
>> >> We've a
>> >> > > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
>> >> > > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth
>> >> installation for
>> >> > > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to
>> >> upgrade.
>> >> >
>> >> > We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know
>> and care
>> >> > about, then let's get this thing moving again.
>> >> >
>> >> > > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time
>> >> to fix
>> >> > > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March
>> >> seems fine.
>> >> > > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a
>> >> "release
>> >> > > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to
>> >> be an
>> >> > > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After
>> >> a few
>> >> > > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
>> >> >
>> >> > How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've
>> had. This
>> >> > release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill
>> us, but
>> >> > let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust
>> >> me, if
>> >> > i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost
>> any
>> >> > major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for
>> >> most
>> >> > code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow
>> >> bugs"
>> >> > theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer
>> >> people
>> >> > bother with release candidates and betas.
>> >> >
>> >> > > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2
>> >> had no
>> >> > > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build
>> >> process in
>> >> > > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual
>> >> distribution. It
>> >> > > worked from the source distribution but not the released
>> >> package. No
>> >> > > one found this problem for a month.
>> >> >
>> >> > And it's fixed, is it not?
>> >> >
>> >> > > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts
>> >> in the
>> >> > > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I
>> take
>> >> > > responsibility myself for not thinking through the
>> >> implications of the
>> >> > > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a
>> >> release
>> >> > > at the end of January.
>> >> >
>> >> > Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one
>> >> thing,
>> >> > if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
>> >> > responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
>> >> > satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote
>> or by
>> >> > letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
>> >> > please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute.
>> >> That's
>> >> > not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
>> >> >
>> >> > > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was
>> >> effective. We
>> >> > > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new
>> >> features. The
>> >> > > code is branched and close to perfect.
>> >> >
>> >> > it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe
>> >> it will
>> >> > get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
>> >> >
>> >> > > Docs are set, readme is
>> >> > > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues
>> >> like
>> >> > > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create
>> >> the new
>> >> > > release.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > WILL
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > [1]
>> >> > > [echo]
>> >> > > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
>> >> > > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
>> >> > > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
>> >> > > [anakia]
>> >> > > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must
>> >> end with
>> >> > > a '>' delimiter.
>> >> > > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> > > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually
>> >> have to
>> >> > > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on
>> >> really rolled
>> >> > > > releases.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is
>> >> available from
>> >> > > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > [ ] +1 Yes.
>> >> > > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
>> >> > > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Vote period is
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Best regards
>> >> > > > Henning
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-
>> unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-
>> >> help@velocity.apache.org
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > Forio Business Simulations
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Will Glass-Husain
>> >> > > wglass@forio.com
>> >> > > www.forio.com
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Forio Business Simulations
>> >>
>> >> Will Glass-Husain
>> >> wglass@forio.com
>> >> www.forio.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Forio Business Simulations
>> >
>> > Will Glass-Husain
>> > wglass@forio.com
>> > www.forio.com
>> >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 31, 2007, at 3:48 AM, Will Glass-Husain wrote:
>
> > I thought about this a little more. There's a couple things we can do
> > that I'd support.
> >
> > (1) Figure out a way to call this release something other than
> > Velocity 1.5, e.g. Velocity 1.5rc1 and issue the release immediately.
> > Can we do this without a 3 day vote?
>
> See my other response. Why the rush? If Henning has to go vacation,
> then you do the RC1 stuff, and we'll wait until he gets back for the
> 1.5 GA release.
>
> >
> > (2) Take a little time to make the minor fix required, then release
> > the software. I can step up to do this over the next few days. I
> > think Henning was concerned we'd need to rebuild the site and he's the
> > only one that can do that. If I managed the release, I'd probably
> > want to do Velocity 1.5rc1 first and then Velocity 1.5 two weeks
> > later.
>
> Why is he the only one that can do the site?
because Maven2 has issues and that's what the current site is being
built with. i've tried to get it working on my machine, but no luck
yet.
> >
> > (3) Henning remains release manager and we wait until March for the
> > release. We could leave the VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH up so that the
> > release is ready to go. We can also direct users interested in 1.5
> > specific features to that svn branch.
>
> Right. Do the fixes in the branch, then make a
>
> tag/1.5rc1
>
> build, vote and release as RC1.
>
> When Henning gets back, do 1.5 GA. Advantage is that people get to
> beat 1.5RC1 about for a month.
>
> geir
>
> >
> > I'm sure our European community is long abed, I'll look for comments
> > from them in the morning.
> >
> > WILL
> >
> > On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit send.
> >>
> >> Three quick notes.
> >>
> >> 1) don't think the changes are big. But I think the distro should be
> >> reviewed and fixed. A bad hyperlink on the main menu, in our first
> >> release in 3 years, looks sloppy and conveys an inaccurate impression
> >> of the quality of our product.
> >>
> >> 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
> >> package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
> >> I don't like it.
> >>
> >> 3) I'd be happy to vote +1 if we could call this Velocity 1.5rc1.
> >> But
> >> given the historic significance of this release, I urge us to release
> >> "Velocity 1.5" in a professional distro without obvious errors.
> >> (no
> >> need to immediately issue Velocity 1.5.1).
> >>
> >> best,
> >> WILL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Hi all,
> >> > >
> >> > > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
> >> >
> >> > :(
> >> >
> >> > > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine
> >> under JDK
> >> > > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I
> >> checked all
> >> > > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error
> >> when
> >> > > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
> >> >
> >> > C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find.
> >> I'm all
> >> > for getting things right, but not for holding back releases
> >> based on
> >> > one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
> >> > release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
> >> >
> >> > > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a
> >> prominent bad
> >> > > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote
> >> on the
> >> > > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems.
> >> We've a
> >> > > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
> >> > > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth
> >> installation for
> >> > > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to
> >> upgrade.
> >> >
> >> > We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
> >> > about, then let's get this thing moving again.
> >> >
> >> > > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time
> >> to fix
> >> > > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March
> >> seems fine.
> >> > > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a
> >> "release
> >> > > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to
> >> be an
> >> > > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After
> >> a few
> >> > > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
> >> >
> >> > How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
> >> > release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
> >> > let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust
> >> me, if
> >> > i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
> >> > major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for
> >> most
> >> > code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow
> >> bugs"
> >> > theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer
> >> people
> >> > bother with release candidates and betas.
> >> >
> >> > > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2
> >> had no
> >> > > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build
> >> process in
> >> > > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual
> >> distribution. It
> >> > > worked from the source distribution but not the released
> >> package. No
> >> > > one found this problem for a month.
> >> >
> >> > And it's fixed, is it not?
> >> >
> >> > > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts
> >> in the
> >> > > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
> >> > > responsibility myself for not thinking through the
> >> implications of the
> >> > > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a
> >> release
> >> > > at the end of January.
> >> >
> >> > Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one
> >> thing,
> >> > if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
> >> > responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
> >> > satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
> >> > letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
> >> > please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute.
> >> That's
> >> > not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
> >> >
> >> > > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was
> >> effective. We
> >> > > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new
> >> features. The
> >> > > code is branched and close to perfect.
> >> >
> >> > it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe
> >> it will
> >> > get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
> >> >
> >> > > Docs are set, readme is
> >> > > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues
> >> like
> >> > > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create
> >> the new
> >> > > release.
> >> > >
> >> > > WILL
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > [1]
> >> > > [echo]
> >> > > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
> >> > > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
> >> > > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
> >> > > [anakia]
> >> > > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must
> >> end with
> >> > > a '>' delimiter.
> >> > > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
> >> > >
> >> > > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually
> >> have to
> >> > > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on
> >> really rolled
> >> > > > releases.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is
> >> available from
> >> > > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
> >> > > >
> >> > > > [ ] +1 Yes.
> >> > > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> >> > > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Vote period is
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Best regards
> >> > > > Henning
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-
> >> help@velocity.apache.org
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Forio Business Simulations
> >> > >
> >> > > Will Glass-Husain
> >> > > wglass@forio.com
> >> > > www.forio.com
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Forio Business Simulations
> >>
> >> Will Glass-Husain
> >> wglass@forio.com
> >> www.forio.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Forio Business Simulations
> >
> > Will Glass-Husain
> > wglass@forio.com
> > www.forio.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com> writes:
>> (2) Take a little time to make the minor fix required, then release
>> the software. I can step up to do this over the next few days. I
>> think Henning was concerned we'd need to rebuild the site and he's the
>> only one that can do that. If I managed the release, I'd probably
>> want to do Velocity 1.5rc1 first and then Velocity 1.5 two weeks
>> later.
>Why is he the only one that can do the site?
Because I currently have ~ 15 open issues on the Maven JIRA which in
part are needed to get e.g. the JIRA report integrated.
I can send you the patches against maven 2.0.x HEAD, then you rebuild
maven and can do a nice "mvn clean site site:deploy" yourself.
There is a reason why I insist on having the actual code and release
build staying on ant. The site is not that critical. It is just
plainly annoying that the state of Maven 2.0.x is as it is.
If you want to see the reason why switching from ant to maven for the
site build, compare
http://velocity.apache.org/engine/releases/velocity-1.4/ and
http://velocity.apache.org/engine/devel/
Best regards
Henning
--
Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux,
91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy
"Save the cheerleader. Save the world."
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 3:48 AM, Will Glass-Husain wrote:
> I thought about this a little more. There's a couple things we can do
> that I'd support.
>
> (1) Figure out a way to call this release something other than
> Velocity 1.5, e.g. Velocity 1.5rc1 and issue the release immediately.
> Can we do this without a 3 day vote?
See my other response. Why the rush? If Henning has to go vacation,
then you do the RC1 stuff, and we'll wait until he gets back for the
1.5 GA release.
>
> (2) Take a little time to make the minor fix required, then release
> the software. I can step up to do this over the next few days. I
> think Henning was concerned we'd need to rebuild the site and he's the
> only one that can do that. If I managed the release, I'd probably
> want to do Velocity 1.5rc1 first and then Velocity 1.5 two weeks
> later.
Why is he the only one that can do the site?
>
> (3) Henning remains release manager and we wait until March for the
> release. We could leave the VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH up so that the
> release is ready to go. We can also direct users interested in 1.5
> specific features to that svn branch.
Right. Do the fixes in the branch, then make a
tag/1.5rc1
build, vote and release as RC1.
When Henning gets back, do 1.5 GA. Advantage is that people get to
beat 1.5RC1 about for a month.
geir
>
> I'm sure our European community is long abed, I'll look for comments
> from them in the morning.
>
> WILL
>
> On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit send.
>>
>> Three quick notes.
>>
>> 1) don't think the changes are big. But I think the distro should be
>> reviewed and fixed. A bad hyperlink on the main menu, in our first
>> release in 3 years, looks sloppy and conveys an inaccurate impression
>> of the quality of our product.
>>
>> 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
>> package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
>> I don't like it.
>>
>> 3) I'd be happy to vote +1 if we could call this Velocity 1.5rc1.
>> But
>> given the historic significance of this release, I urge us to release
>> "Velocity 1.5" in a professional distro without obvious errors.
>> (no
>> need to immediately issue Velocity 1.5.1).
>>
>> best,
>> WILL
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
>> >
>> > :(
>> >
>> > > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine
>> under JDK
>> > > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I
>> checked all
>> > > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error
>> when
>> > > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
>> >
>> > C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find.
>> I'm all
>> > for getting things right, but not for holding back releases
>> based on
>> > one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
>> > release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
>> >
>> > > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a
>> prominent bad
>> > > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote
>> on the
>> > > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems.
>> We've a
>> > > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
>> > > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth
>> installation for
>> > > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to
>> upgrade.
>> >
>> > We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
>> > about, then let's get this thing moving again.
>> >
>> > > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time
>> to fix
>> > > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March
>> seems fine.
>> > > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a
>> "release
>> > > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to
>> be an
>> > > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After
>> a few
>> > > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
>> >
>> > How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
>> > release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
>> > let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust
>> me, if
>> > i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
>> > major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for
>> most
>> > code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow
>> bugs"
>> > theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer
>> people
>> > bother with release candidates and betas.
>> >
>> > > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2
>> had no
>> > > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build
>> process in
>> > > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual
>> distribution. It
>> > > worked from the source distribution but not the released
>> package. No
>> > > one found this problem for a month.
>> >
>> > And it's fixed, is it not?
>> >
>> > > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts
>> in the
>> > > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
>> > > responsibility myself for not thinking through the
>> implications of the
>> > > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a
>> release
>> > > at the end of January.
>> >
>> > Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one
>> thing,
>> > if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
>> > responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
>> > satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
>> > letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
>> > please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute.
>> That's
>> > not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
>> >
>> > > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was
>> effective. We
>> > > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new
>> features. The
>> > > code is branched and close to perfect.
>> >
>> > it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe
>> it will
>> > get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
>> >
>> > > Docs are set, readme is
>> > > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues
>> like
>> > > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create
>> the new
>> > > release.
>> > >
>> > > WILL
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [1]
>> > > [echo]
>> > > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
>> > > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
>> > > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
>> > > [anakia]
>> > > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must
>> end with
>> > > a '>' delimiter.
>> > > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
>> > >
>> > > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually
>> have to
>> > > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on
>> really rolled
>> > > > releases.
>> > > >
>> > > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is
>> available from
>> > > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>> > > >
>> > > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>> > > >
>> > > > [ ] +1 Yes.
>> > > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
>> > > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>> > > >
>> > > > Vote period is
>> > > >
>> > > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>> > > >
>> > > > Best regards
>> > > > Henning
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-
>> help@velocity.apache.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Forio Business Simulations
>> > >
>> > > Will Glass-Husain
>> > > wglass@forio.com
>> > > www.forio.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Forio Business Simulations
>>
>> Will Glass-Husain
>> wglass@forio.com
>> www.forio.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Forio Business Simulations
>
> Will Glass-Husain
> wglass@forio.com
> www.forio.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
I thought about this a little more. There's a couple things we can do
that I'd support.
(1) Figure out a way to call this release something other than
Velocity 1.5, e.g. Velocity 1.5rc1 and issue the release immediately.
Can we do this without a 3 day vote?
(2) Take a little time to make the minor fix required, then release
the software. I can step up to do this over the next few days. I
think Henning was concerned we'd need to rebuild the site and he's the
only one that can do that. If I managed the release, I'd probably
want to do Velocity 1.5rc1 first and then Velocity 1.5 two weeks
later.
(3) Henning remains release manager and we wait until March for the
release. We could leave the VELOCITY_1.5_BRANCH up so that the
release is ready to go. We can also direct users interested in 1.5
specific features to that svn branch.
I'm sure our European community is long abed, I'll look for comments
from them in the morning.
WILL
On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit send.
>
> Three quick notes.
>
> 1) don't think the changes are big. But I think the distro should be
> reviewed and fixed. A bad hyperlink on the main menu, in our first
> release in 3 years, looks sloppy and conveys an inaccurate impression
> of the quality of our product.
>
> 2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
> package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
> I don't like it.
>
> 3) I'd be happy to vote +1 if we could call this Velocity 1.5rc1. But
> given the historic significance of this release, I urge us to release
> "Velocity 1.5" in a professional distro without obvious errors. (no
> need to immediately issue Velocity 1.5.1).
>
> best,
> WILL
>
>
>
> On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
> >
> > :(
> >
> > > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under JDK
> > > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked all
> > > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
> > > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
> >
> > C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find. I'm all
> > for getting things right, but not for holding back releases based on
> > one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
> > release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
> >
> > > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent bad
> > > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote on the
> > > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems. We've a
> > > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
> > > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation for
> > > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
> >
> > We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
> > about, then let's get this thing moving again.
> >
> > > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
> > > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems fine.
> > > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
> > > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
> > > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a few
> > > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
> >
> > How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
> > release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
> > let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust me, if
> > i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
> > major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for most
> > code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow bugs"
> > theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer people
> > bother with release candidates and betas.
> >
> > > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2 had no
> > > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build process in
> > > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
> > > worked from the source distribution but not the released package. No
> > > one found this problem for a month.
> >
> > And it's fixed, is it not?
> >
> > > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in the
> > > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
> > > responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications of the
> > > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a release
> > > at the end of January.
> >
> > Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one thing,
> > if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
> > responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
> > satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
> > letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
> > please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute. That's
> > not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
> >
> > > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was effective. We
> > > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new features. The
> > > code is branched and close to perfect.
> >
> > it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe it will
> > get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
> >
> > > Docs are set, readme is
> > > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
> > > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
> > > release.
> > >
> > > WILL
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > [echo]
> > > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
> > > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
> > > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
> > > [anakia]
> > > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must end with
> > > a '>' delimiter.
> > > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
> > >
> > > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> > > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> > > > releases.
> > > >
> > > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> > > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
> > > >
> > > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
> > > >
> > > > [ ] +1 Yes.
> > > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> > > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
> > > >
> > > > Vote period is
> > > >
> > > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > > Henning
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-help@velocity.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Forio Business Simulations
> > >
> > > Will Glass-Husain
> > > wglass@forio.com
> > > www.forio.com
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Forio Business Simulations
>
> Will Glass-Husain
> wglass@forio.com
> www.forio.com
>
--
Forio Business Simulations
Will Glass-Husain
wglass@forio.com
www.forio.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Knew I'd be unpopular the moment I hit send.
Three quick notes.
1) don't think the changes are big. But I think the distro should be
reviewed and fixed. A bad hyperlink on the main menu, in our first
release in 3 years, looks sloppy and conveys an inaccurate impression
of the quality of our product.
2) Unlike V-tools, we did not have a test build. Instead, the final
package was created with the choice "vote yes, or delay the release".
I don't like it.
3) I'd be happy to vote +1 if we could call this Velocity 1.5rc1. But
given the historic significance of this release, I urge us to release
"Velocity 1.5" in a professional distro without obvious errors. (no
need to immediately issue Velocity 1.5.1).
best,
WILL
On 1/30/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Reluctantly, I vote -1.
>
> :(
>
> > I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under JDK
> > 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked all
> > the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
> > generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
>
> C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find. I'm all
> for getting things right, but not for holding back releases based on
> one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
> release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
>
> > I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent bad
> > link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote on the
> > final release" might not have uncovered additional problems. We've a
> > chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
> > prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation for
> > both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
>
> We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
> about, then let's get this thing moving again.
>
> > My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
> > these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems fine.
> > For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
> > candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
> > actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a few
> > weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
>
> How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
> release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
> let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust me, if
> i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
> major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for most
> code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow bugs"
> theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer people
> bother with release candidates and betas.
>
> > Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2 had no
> > errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build process in
> > which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
> > worked from the source distribution but not the released package. No
> > one found this problem for a month.
>
> And it's fixed, is it not?
>
> > I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in the
> > last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
> > responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications of the
> > release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a release
> > at the end of January.
>
> Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one thing,
> if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
> responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
> satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
> letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
> please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute. That's
> not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
>
> > However, the good news is that the recent momentum was effective. We
> > are right at the doorway to a new release with many new features. The
> > code is branched and close to perfect.
>
> it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe it will
> get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
>
> > Docs are set, readme is
> > present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
> > this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
> > release.
> >
> > WILL
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > [echo]
> > [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
> > Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
> > [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
> > [anakia]
> > [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must end with
> > a '>' delimiter.
> > [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
> >
> > On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> > > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> > > releases.
> > >
> > > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> > > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
> > >
> > > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
> > >
> > > [ ] +1 Yes.
> > > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> > > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
> > >
> > > Vote period is
> > >
> > > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Henning
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: private-help@velocity.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Forio Business Simulations
> >
> > Will Glass-Husain
> > wglass@forio.com
> > www.forio.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>
--
Forio Business Simulations
Will Glass-Husain
wglass@forio.com
www.forio.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/30/07, Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Reluctantly, I vote -1.
:(
> I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under JDK
> 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked all
> the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
> generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
C'mon. Anakia's documentation is anything but hard to find. I'm all
for getting things right, but not for holding back releases based on
one missing doc. I'd rather you let Henning release 1.5 now and
release 1.5.1 yourself next week.
> I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent bad
> link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote on the
> final release" might not have uncovered additional problems. We've a
> chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
> prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation for
> both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
We can't cower in fear of unknown bugs. Fix what you know and care
about, then let's get this thing moving again.
> My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
> these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems fine.
> For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
> candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
> actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a few
> weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
How about two betas and a test build? That's what we've had. This
release has had much time to prepare. More time won't kill us, but
let's not pretend things are ever likely to be 100% set. Trust me, if
i cared enough, i could start combing thru the docs of almost any
major project you like and find dozens of errors. Same goes for most
code. Final releases will never be perfect, but the "shallow bugs"
theory won't work if we don't get *them* out there. Far fewer people
bother with release candidates and betas.
> Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2 had no
> errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build process in
> which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
> worked from the source distribution but not the released package. No
> one found this problem for a month.
And it's fixed, is it not?
> I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in the
> last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
> responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications of the
> release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a release
> at the end of January.
Taking responsibility in the open source world means only one thing,
if you ask me. Doing the work. If you're going to take
responsibility for this by re-doing this whole process to your
satisfaction either by repeating the 1.5 test build and vote or by
letting 1.5 go and releasing a 1.5.1, then i won't protest. But
please don't just sit back and critique at the last minute. That's
not just frustrating, it's obnoxious.
> However, the good news is that the recent momentum was effective. We
> are right at the doorway to a new release with many new features. The
> code is branched and close to perfect.
it is not close to perfect, nor will it ever be, but i believe it will
get better faster if you don't obsess about it being perfect.
> Docs are set, readme is
> present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
> this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
> release.
>
> WILL
>
>
> [1]
> [echo]
> [anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
> Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
> [anakia] Input: anakia.xml
> [anakia]
> [anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must end with
> a '>' delimiter.
> [anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
>
> On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> > repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> > releases.
> >
> > The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> > http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
> >
> > Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
> >
> > [ ] +1 Yes.
> > [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> > [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
> >
> > Vote period is
> >
> > Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
> >
> > Best regards
> > Henning
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: private-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Forio Business Simulations
>
> Will Glass-Husain
> wglass@forio.com
> www.forio.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/30/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
...
> I did discuss this in some depth with Will on IRC. He explained me his
> reasons for the vote in depth I respect them. Here is my response:
>
> - The problem with the anakia.html file is apparent and obvious. So we
> have a single file for a quite obscure part of Velocity missing. It
> is fixed on the site
> (http://velocity.apache.org/engine/releases/velocity-1.5/anakia.html)
> so if anyone is really looking for this file and can not find it in
> the downloaded distribution, it is available online.
>
> To me, this is no show stopper. It is a wart. We have a number of
> them (I can readily think of at least one more broken link on the
> bundled pages).
>
> - The release feels "rushed". As I wrote, yes in part it is because I
> want to get it out before end of January. We have been dragging that
> release for so long that we might make the vaporware top 10 at some
> point. I'd like to get over with it. If we have warts, we can release
> 1.5.1 which fix them.
>
> Aiming for perfection IMHO does not cut the cake. Good is enough and
> we can always do the next release. We can find a reason not to release
> every time we try.
+1
> - The issues we have are *solely* with documentation. No code is
> involved.
>
> - Re-releasing 1.5 is IMHO not possible. We have rolled tarballs and
> jars which have been available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/ Some people are bound to
> have downloaded them and they might even spread. We can denounce
> them as "not officially released" but if we re-roll 1.5 tarballs, we
> will end up with bug reports against bogus versions.
eh... if you think so. i wouldn't say we released it even once, much
less worry about re-releasing. we can call the next test build 1.5,
1.5.0 or 1.5.1, as far as i'm concerned.
> Telling me that I did a lot of work is nice. I know it. Velocity did cut
> seriously into my spare time lately and I want to spend this time for
> coding, not doing release and documentation chores. There has not much
> response been in terms of helping with docs and while most people are
> already talking about "the grand new Velocity 2.0", we want to get an
> actual release for 1.x first.
Sorry, been busy with VelocityTools 1.3. :(
> BTW: I don't actually buy into the "smooth transition" argument anyway,
> however I can not really reinforce it. If you have an app that uses 1.4
> or 1.3 for a long time and you just drop 1.5 in, you are in for a
> surprise. There is always dependency upgrading (which we could have
> stated more prominently in the release, but we do have it on the web
> site now (http://velocity.apache.org/engine/devel/upgrading.html, once
> the mirror caught up), so adding that link in the announcement is IMHO
> fine.
>
> As a compromise, I'd like to propose to keep the 1.5 release and call it
> "Release candidate" in the same way as httpd calls it's releases x.y.z
> and assigns them "levels of quality" such as (Alpha) (Beta) (Release
> Candidate) (General Availability). So this would then be
> Velocity 1.5 (Release Candidate) with probably Velocity 1.5.1 (General
> Availability) following.
hmm. not thrilled about switching release procedures midway, but if
you won't release Velocity 1.5 as final/GA/whatever, then i want to
see some sort of release. so, i suppose i'll give this plan a:
+1
> This would mean that we reduce our planned 'press campaign' to an
> announcement on the dev list and the RSS feed and run the real thing for
> 1.5.1.
>
> I will not release if we have a -1 vote even if we do have three PMC +1
> votes. I know the 'Apache rules' would back me here, but I would feel
> uncomfortable to do this without unanimous consent from the PMC members.
> Will felt strong enough about this to not just abstain but to vote -1,
> so we should try to resolve this and get him to retract his vote.
To be honest, i'm bummed about this. I think there is wisdom in the
rules. If Will feels strongly enough to -1 this, then he should feel
strongly enough to address his concerns, upload a 1.5.1 test build and
vote to have it released ASAP to supersede the 1.5 release.
> I did pull the release archives from people.apache.org. If we can
> resolve this on short notice, good. If not, we are basically stuck with
> Mid-March as the next possible release date (and a third vote) if I
> should do the release or someone else stepping up as release manager.
Will should be able to scratch his itches quickly. Mid-march is a
long time to wait for such small tweaks. If he doesn't step up with a
1.5.1 test build and vote before then, then i may take a shot at it.
> I'd like to hear opinions from others to that. I'd also like to
> encourage you to lobby Will to withdraw his -1 :-)
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 12:52 AM, Nathan Bubna wrote:
> On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2007, at 11:24 PM, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
> ...
>> >
>> > As a compromise, I'd like to propose to keep the 1.5 release and
>> > call it
>> > "Release candidate" in the same way as httpd calls it's releases
>> x.y.z
>> > and assigns them "levels of quality" such as (Alpha) (Beta)
>> (Release
>> > Candidate) (General Availability). So this would then be
>> > Velocity 1.5 (Release Candidate) with probably Velocity 1.5.1
>> (General
>> > Availability) following.
>>
>> No - that's confusing. 1.5 RC would be followed by 1.5 GA
>
> eh.. only if we're talking about a vote to just re-label 1.5. if we
> make changes to the distro (even for docs) and roll a new release,
We didn't release this, so it doesn't matter, IMO.
> then we need a new number. since we're only talking about doc
> changes, 1.5.1 seems appropriate and would be likely to get voted as
> GA.
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 1/30/07, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 30, 2007, at 11:24 PM, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
...
> >
> > As a compromise, I'd like to propose to keep the 1.5 release and
> > call it
> > "Release candidate" in the same way as httpd calls it's releases x.y.z
> > and assigns them "levels of quality" such as (Alpha) (Beta) (Release
> > Candidate) (General Availability). So this would then be
> > Velocity 1.5 (Release Candidate) with probably Velocity 1.5.1 (General
> > Availability) following.
>
> No - that's confusing. 1.5 RC would be followed by 1.5 GA
eh.. only if we're talking about a vote to just re-label 1.5. if we
make changes to the distro (even for docs) and roll a new release,
then we need a new number. since we're only talking about doc
changes, 1.5.1 seems appropriate and would be likely to get voted as
GA.
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Jan 30, 2007, at 11:24 PM, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
>
> - Re-releasing 1.5 is IMHO not possible. We have rolled tarballs and
> jars which have been available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/ Some people are bound to
> have downloaded them and they might even spread. We can denounce
> them as "not officially released" but if we re-roll 1.5 tarballs, we
> will end up with bug reports against bogus versions.
This is why you review and vote on artifacts before they go out.
>
> BTW: I don't actually buy into the "smooth transition" argument
> anyway,
> however I can not really reinforce it. If you have an app that uses
> 1.4
> or 1.3 for a long time and you just drop 1.5 in, you are in for a
> surprise. There is always dependency upgrading (which we could have
> stated more prominently in the release, but we do have it on the web
> site now (http://velocity.apache.org/engine/devel/upgrading.html,
> once
> the mirror caught up), so adding that link in the announcement is IMHO
> fine.
That's not true. Historically, we have bent over backwards in this
project to make upgrades predicable and stable.
>
> As a compromise, I'd like to propose to keep the 1.5 release and
> call it
> "Release candidate" in the same way as httpd calls it's releases x.y.z
> and assigns them "levels of quality" such as (Alpha) (Beta) (Release
> Candidate) (General Availability). So this would then be
> Velocity 1.5 (Release Candidate) with probably Velocity 1.5.1 (General
> Availability) following.
No - that's confusing. 1.5 RC would be followed by 1.5 GA
>
> This would mean that we reduce our planned 'press campaign' to an
> announcement on the dev list and the RSS feed and run the real
> thing for
> 1.5.1.
>
> I will not release if we have a -1 vote even if we do have three
> PMC +1
> votes. I know the 'Apache rules' would back me here, but I would feel
> uncomfortable to do this without unanimous consent from the PMC
> members.
> Will felt strong enough about this to not just abstain but to vote -1,
> so we should try to resolve this and get him to retract his vote.
Look - you said yourself that the code is fine, it's the other stuff
that's problematic. So.....
>
> I did pull the release archives from people.apache.org. If we can
> resolve this on short notice, good. If not, we are basically stuck
> with
> Mid-March as the next possible release date (and a third vote) if I
> should do the release or someone else stepping up as release manager.
>
> I'd like to hear opinions from others to that. I'd also like to
> encourage you to lobby Will to withdraw his -1 :-)
You did the right thing by taking the problematic binaries off of the
URL right now for starters. These were never presented to the public
as released binaries, so I'm not worried about people being confused.
I think that given the significance of this release, we want to get
this right in as many details as humanly possible. Thanks for all
the work you put into it - it was a great effort. Now others can
help w/ the final polish.
geir
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 14:53 -0800, Will Glass-Husain wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Reluctantly, I vote -1.
>
> I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under JDK
> 1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked all
> the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
> generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
>
> I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent bad
> link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote on the
> final release" might not have uncovered additional problems. We've a
> chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
> prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation for
> both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
>
> My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
> these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems fine.
> For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
> candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
> actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a few
> weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
>
> Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2 had no
> errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build process in
> which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
> worked from the source distribution but not the released package. No
> one found this problem for a month.
>
> I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in the
> last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
> responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications of the
> release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a release
> at the end of January.
>
> However, the good news is that the recent momentum was effective. We
> are right at the doorway to a new release with many new features. The
> code is branched and close to perfect. Docs are set, readme is
> present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
> this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
> release.
I did discuss this in some depth with Will on IRC. He explained me his
reasons for the vote in depth I respect them. Here is my response:
- The problem with the anakia.html file is apparent and obvious. So we
have a single file for a quite obscure part of Velocity missing. It
is fixed on the site
(http://velocity.apache.org/engine/releases/velocity-1.5/anakia.html)
so if anyone is really looking for this file and can not find it in
the downloaded distribution, it is available online.
To me, this is no show stopper. It is a wart. We have a number of
them (I can readily think of at least one more broken link on the
bundled pages).
- The release feels "rushed". As I wrote, yes in part it is because I
want to get it out before end of January. We have been dragging that
release for so long that we might make the vaporware top 10 at some
point. I'd like to get over with it. If we have warts, we can release
1.5.1 which fix them.
Aiming for perfection IMHO does not cut the cake. Good is enough and
we can always do the next release. We can find a reason not to release
every time we try.
- The issues we have are *solely* with documentation. No code is
involved.
- Re-releasing 1.5 is IMHO not possible. We have rolled tarballs and
jars which have been available from
http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/ Some people are bound to
have downloaded them and they might even spread. We can denounce
them as "not officially released" but if we re-roll 1.5 tarballs, we
will end up with bug reports against bogus versions.
Telling me that I did a lot of work is nice. I know it. Velocity did cut
seriously into my spare time lately and I want to spend this time for
coding, not doing release and documentation chores. There has not much
response been in terms of helping with docs and while most people are
already talking about "the grand new Velocity 2.0", we want to get an
actual release for 1.x first.
BTW: I don't actually buy into the "smooth transition" argument anyway,
however I can not really reinforce it. If you have an app that uses 1.4
or 1.3 for a long time and you just drop 1.5 in, you are in for a
surprise. There is always dependency upgrading (which we could have
stated more prominently in the release, but we do have it on the web
site now (http://velocity.apache.org/engine/devel/upgrading.html, once
the mirror caught up), so adding that link in the announcement is IMHO
fine.
As a compromise, I'd like to propose to keep the 1.5 release and call it
"Release candidate" in the same way as httpd calls it's releases x.y.z
and assigns them "levels of quality" such as (Alpha) (Beta) (Release
Candidate) (General Availability). So this would then be
Velocity 1.5 (Release Candidate) with probably Velocity 1.5.1 (General
Availability) following.
This would mean that we reduce our planned 'press campaign' to an
announcement on the dev list and the RSS feed and run the real thing for
1.5.1.
I will not release if we have a -1 vote even if we do have three PMC +1
votes. I know the 'Apache rules' would back me here, but I would feel
uncomfortable to do this without unanimous consent from the PMC members.
Will felt strong enough about this to not just abstain but to vote -1,
so we should try to resolve this and get him to retract his vote.
I did pull the release archives from people.apache.org. If we can
resolve this on short notice, good. If not, we are basically stuck with
Mid-March as the next possible release date (and a third vote) if I
should do the release or someone else stepping up as release manager.
I'd like to hear opinions from others to that. I'd also like to
encourage you to lobby Will to withdraw his -1 :-)
Best regards
Henning
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
Hi all,
Reluctantly, I vote -1.
I tested the release. It compiled fine, ant test ran fine under JDK
1.5 and 1.6, worked with Velocity Tools 1.2. But when I checked all
the hyperlinks, the anakia page was missing. There's an error when
generating the page and it was left out of the distribution [1].
I'm concerned about two things. I'm concerned about a prominent bad
link on the main menu, and I'm concerned the last minute "vote on the
final release" might not have uncovered additional problems. We've a
chance to make a major impression on the Java world with this
prominent release and I want this to be very smooth installation for
both new users and the typical existing user who wants to upgrade.
My recommendation is to delay the release until there's time to fix
these doc issues and for more thorough testing. Mid-March seems fine.
For the "shallow bugs" theory to work, we need to issue a "release
candidate" that everyone can work with. This doesn't need to be an
actual release, just a binary distribution we can test. After a few
weeks we should be assured the details are 100% set.
Incidentally, I disagree with Henning's comment that the beta2 had no
errors. Actually, beta2 had a serious error in the build process in
which "ant test" failed when run from the actual distribution. It
worked from the source distribution but not the released package. No
one found this problem for a month.
I can't adequately express my admiration of Henning's efforts in the
last 6 months to get this out. This must be frustrating. I take
responsibility myself for not thinking through the implications of the
release process when Henning proposed a month ago we issue a release
at the end of January.
However, the good news is that the recent momentum was effective. We
are right at the doorway to a new release with many new features. The
code is branched and close to perfect. Docs are set, readme is
present. With a little more checking (and fixing minor issues like
this one), we can type "ant dist" in early March and create the new
release.
WILL
[1]
[echo]
[anakia] Transforming into: C:\Documents and
Settings\wglass\Desktop\velocity-1.5\bin\docs
[anakia] Input: anakia.xml
[anakia]
[anakia] Error: The end-tag for element type "example" must end with
a '>' delimiter.
[anakia] Line: 117 Column: 60
On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> releases.
>
> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>
> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>
> [ ] +1 Yes.
> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>
> Vote period is
>
> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: private-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
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>
>
--
Forio Business Simulations
Will Glass-Husain
wglass@forio.com
www.forio.com
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Claude Brisson <cl...@renegat.net>.
+1
This is the first valid +1 since the three previous ones where BEFORE
00:00 MET...
(Ok, just jokin')
Claude
Le dimanche 28 janvier 2007 à 23:25 +0100, Henning Schmiedehausen a
écrit :
> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> releases.
>
> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>
> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>
> [ ] +1 Yes.
> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>
> Vote period is
>
> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Matthijs Lambooy <la...@crossmarx.nl>.
+1
Matthijs Lambooy
Malcolm Edgar wrote:
> +1
>
> regards Malcolm Edgar
>
> On 1/29/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
>> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
>> releases.
>>
>> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
>> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>>
>> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>>
>> [ ] +1 Yes.
>> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
>> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>>
>> Vote period is
>>
>> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>>
>> Best regards
>> Henning
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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>
>
--
Matthijs Lambooy
CrossmarX BV, Amsterdam
http://www.crossmarx.com
+31654771926
skype callto://matthijslambooy
xmpp:matthijs1@jabber.org
http://www.zoook.nl laat zien wat je te koop hebt
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Malcolm Edgar <ma...@gmail.com>.
+1
regards Malcolm Edgar
On 1/29/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> releases.
>
> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>
> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>
> [ ] +1 Yes.
> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>
> Vote period is
>
> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
+1
On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> releases.
>
> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>
> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>
> [ ] +1 Yes.
> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>
> Vote period is
>
> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
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This is 1.5 (was: Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) ))
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com> writes:
No, that is the real thing. I'd say that there is o point in an RC,
mainly because there were no complaints / new bugs with beta2.
Why do an RC when everyone seems to be happy / does not care? If it
really is a brown paper bag thing (which I doubt), we release 1.5.1
early.
Best regards
Henning
>------=_Part_16451_6923429.1170027681648
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Disposition: inline
>So, just to clarify (!) this is for the real thing, right? We're not doing
>a release candidate like we did for velocity 1.3 and 1.4?
>Thanks,
>WILL
>On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
>> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
>> releases.
>>
>> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
>> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>>
>> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>>
>> [ ] +1 Yes.
>> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
>> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>>
>> Vote period is
>>
>> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>>
>> Best regards
>> Henning
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>>
>>
>------=_Part_16451_6923429.1170027681648--
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Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- hps@intermeta.de | J2EE, Linux,
91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person
Open Source Consulting, Development, Design | Velocity - Turbine guy
"Save the cheerleader. Save the world."
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Re: [VOTE] Release Velocity 1.5 (again, this time for real. :-) )
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@forio.com>.
So, just to clarify (!) this is for the real thing, right? We're not doing
a release candidate like we did for velocity 1.3 and 1.4?
Thanks,
WILL
On 1/28/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Due to a misunderstanding in the vote procedure, we actually have to
> repeat the release vote, because we should vote only on really rolled
> releases.
>
> The candidate for the Apache Velocity 1.5 release is available from
> http://people.apache.org/dist/velocity/1.5/
>
> Shall we release this code base as Apache Velocity 1.5
>
> [ ] +1 Yes.
> [ ] 0 I still don't care.
> [ ] -1 No, because ________________________________.
>
> Vote period is
>
> Monday, Jan 29th 0:00 MET to Wednesday, Jan 31st 0:00 MET
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>