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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com> on 2003/08/28 17:48:25 UTC
We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Hello,
we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different
technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application. It
is in our interest, that we contribute this project with about 200.000
Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
I've already written to the Incubator project and I'm searching for a
sponsoring Apache member or a major project to get the project on the
road.
It uses a lot of Cocoon, so it might be a subproject of Cocoon, but it
might be run with another "Rendering-Engine" as well. As it is based on
XML Content it might be also interesting for the Apache XML project -
but most of the code is not related to XML anyway.
So the third project in the round - Jakarta - is comming in the light.
Just for your interest:
The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source
application.
We've already running many websites with the CMS', but it was one of the
major interests of our initial customer, that we will open the source
for everyone. IMHO Apache is the best point for let the project fly into
the sky of open source. Currently there are three developers envolved
into the project and actually coding.
I have already done some stuff for different open source projects and
also contributed to the Apache James project - tried to reorganize the
IMAP4 code. (Because of my 16h/day fulltime efford on this CMS project
it was impossible to do anything else)
So let me know how I can show you how powerful this project is and how I
can convince you to become the CMS a subproject of one of your projects.
Please let me know what else could I do to, if this is not the right way
for seeking a sponsoring Apache member.
Regards,
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik
JuwiMacMillan Group GmbH
P.S.: The Name of the Product is "ConQuest", it's current Home Page is
http://conquest.juwimm.net and it is already in use at some customers of
us.
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
> http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
It is broken.
Andreas
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
> http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
It is broken.
Andreas
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AW: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > Because of ongoing server problems you can test the
> Application under:
> > http://213.252.141.109/admin/ To get access to the Admin Tool try
> > following:
> > User: BT
> > Passwd: test
>
> I tried that but when I tried to log in using the Java
> application I got an error message saying "null".
Sorry, my fault.
Username is: BL
Password: test
Regards,
Sascha
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Re: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Because of ongoing server problems you can test the Application under:
> http://213.252.141.109/admin/
> To get access to the Admin Tool try following:
> User: BT
> Passwd: test
I tried that but when I tried to log in using the Java application I got an
error message saying "null".
Andreas
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Re: !AW: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart
- based CMS
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>>It's pretty hard, however, to
>>judge your software based on the resources we can see from here (a
>>german web site and a webstart admin tool which requires a
>>password). So
>
>
> Yes, you're right, the Website is german. Thats why I just want to start
> with the "process" and do the remaining stuff for that donation in that
> time.
Unfortunately (well, for you, not for Apache :-)) it doesn't work like
this with the ASF. If you carefully read all the project guidelines and
incubation proposals you'll see that to get into Apache you have to
follow a very strict set of requirements in terms of community first and
code base next (but community is what really matters).
While I understand that it might sound harsh to you (the typical
reaction is like "what the heck, I'm givin my cool stuff away and those
guys are being picky?"), this is one of the main reasons for Apache to
continue serving just the best of breed in Open Source software. If
you'll be patient enough, I'm sure you'll learn to appreciate the
"Apache Way".
> Because of ongoing server problems you can test the Application under:
> http://213.252.141.109/admin/
> To get access to the Admin Tool try following:
> User: BT
> Passwd: test
Hmmm... I'm getting an 'Error during logon: "null"' which doesn't seem
much promising. :-/
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
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!AW: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > Yes, that's possible. But however, my main focus is to code this
> > project into the future. So it would be really nice to become an
> > Apache (Sub-)Project and find some really interested contributors.
>
> I, for one, am very interested in CMS (though I have to say
> that I don't
> believe J2EE and CMS mix really well).
Why Do you think so? :)
It was not easy but I think the structure is pretty good. (For judge
this it might be better to see the code or a "big picture")
> It's pretty hard, however, to
> judge your software based on the resources we can see from here (a
> german web site and a webstart admin tool which requires a
> password). So
Yes, you're right, the Website is german. Thats why I just want to start
with the "process" and do the remaining stuff for that donation in that
time.
Because of ongoing server problems you can test the Application under:
http://213.252.141.109/admin/
To get access to the Admin Tool try following:
User: BT
Passwd: test
> Count on me at least for an evaluation: I can't help much
> since I'm just
> an ASF committer and not a member, but I'll be happy anyway
> to see if I
> can do anything useful.
Yes, that you very much, this sounds pretty good!
Regards,
Sascha
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Re: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based
CMS
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>>Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
>>warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might
>>be longer
>>than you would expect.
>
>
> Yes, that's possible. But however, my main focus is to code this project
> into the future. So it would be really nice to become an Apache
> (Sub-)Project and find some really interested contributors.
I, for one, am very interested in CMS (though I have to say that I don't
believe J2EE and CMS mix really well). It's pretty hard, however, to
judge your software based on the resources we can see from here (a
german web site and a webstart admin tool which requires a password). So
far it sure looks interesting, but my friendly advice would be to open
it up as soon as possible (either on SourceForge or on your own
infrastructure) and see if you can get some external contribution.
Count on me at least for an evaluation: I can't help much since I'm just
an ASF committer and not a member, but I'll be happy anyway to see if I
can do anything useful.
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
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AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a
> little bit of
> > "we want to give the community something back", something of
> > "reputation", some interest of good ideas of other
> developers and so
> > on.
>
> The primary work area for incubating ASF projects should be the
> community around a project. So in general, it is deemed a
Yes, you're right. But isn't it also important to get a good idea behind
and a good codebase? :)
> In this particular case, this would mean you should be thinking about
> how to attract new developers right now. They won't come
> automagically
Ok, currently we're three developers.
> Also, I believe there is an inverse relationship
> between the size of a given codebase, and the number of possible
> contributors it can attract.
> For large codebases, there might be too
> much to learn, and too many things already been decided upon, that
> potential new contributors can be scared away, if the
> incubating project
> doesn't spend enough time on these critical aspects.
Might be - but it was still designed to change a lot in future, there
are several modules who can be changed and so on. And also there is a
lot to do for the next major release - I just wanted to code a fully
plugin functionality and therefor it has to be changed about 30% of the
existing code as well. I think there is a lot to change, a lot of new
modules possible and also a lot to do and everybody who is interested in
J2EE and Webapplications will be interested in contributing.
Maybe it is only important to take a look at it - it is really not
compareable with existing systems based on web-administration.
I think it is a little bit like James or Eclipse, there is a lot of
stuff already done, but this is only the first step to start on.
My Idea is to use this step and build everything on you can imagine.
Currently Cocoon is used for rendering, but it is so modular that you
also can render directly in static HTML Files or something else. If you
know Interwoven Teamsite - right like this - but much more powerful.
So I would be really happy to show it anybody who might have interest
and to enthuse him to help me build on it.
And the next aspect, it uses as much Apache Software as you can get :)
So currently it uses Axis, Cocoon, Xerces, Xalan, Commons, Log4J, Ant,
... :)
> Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
> warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might
> be longer
> than you would expect.
Yes, that's possible. But however, my main focus is to code this project
into the future. So it would be really nice to become an Apache
(Sub-)Project and find some really interested contributors.
Regards,
Sascha
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Re: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based
CMS
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
> No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
> "we want to give the community something back", something of
> "reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
The primary work area for incubating ASF projects should be the
community around a project. So in general, it is deemed a good practice
if the candidate incubating project starts adapting ASF project
guidelines prior to entering incubation.
In this particular case, this would mean you should be thinking about
how to attract new developers right now. They won't come automagically
by moving into the ASF incubator, if there's isn't a sense of
meritocracy already. Also, I believe there is an inverse relationship
between the size of a given codebase, and the number of possible
contributors it can attract. For large codebases, there might be too
much to learn, and too many things already been decided upon, that
potential new contributors can be scared away, if the incubating project
doesn't spend enough time on these critical aspects.
Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might be longer
than you would expect.
Cheers,
</Steven>
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Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
> http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
It is broken.
Andreas
Re: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based
CMS
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
> No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
> "we want to give the community something back", something of
> "reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
The primary work area for incubating ASF projects should be the
community around a project. So in general, it is deemed a good practice
if the candidate incubating project starts adapting ASF project
guidelines prior to entering incubation.
In this particular case, this would mean you should be thinking about
how to attract new developers right now. They won't come automagically
by moving into the ASF incubator, if there's isn't a sense of
meritocracy already. Also, I believe there is an inverse relationship
between the size of a given codebase, and the number of possible
contributors it can attract. For large codebases, there might be too
much to learn, and too many things already been decided upon, that
potential new contributors can be scared away, if the incubating project
doesn't spend enough time on these critical aspects.
Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might be longer
than you would expect.
Cheers,
</Steven>
AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on
> > different technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client
> > Application. It is in our interest, that we contribute this project
> > with about 200.000 Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
>
> 200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
Yes, but with the normal quotes. Just the work of one year :)
> > The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed
> > source application. We've already running many websites
> with the CMS',
> > but it was one of the major interests of our initial
> customer, that we
> > will open the source for everyone.
>
> This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
> company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that
> it's "just"
> because of a customer of yours that you're considering it?
> I'm honestly
> curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
"we want to give the community something back", something of
"reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
> Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this
> morning,
> but it's always unavailable.
Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
Regards,
Sascha
AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on
> > different technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client
> > Application. It is in our interest, that we contribute this project
> > with about 200.000 Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
>
> 200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
Yes, but with the normal quotes. Just the work of one year :)
> > The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed
> > source application. We've already running many websites
> with the CMS',
> > but it was one of the major interests of our initial
> customer, that we
> > will open the source for everyone.
>
> This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
> company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that
> it's "just"
> because of a customer of yours that you're considering it?
> I'm honestly
> curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
"we want to give the community something back", something of
"reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
> Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this
> morning,
> but it's always unavailable.
Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
Regards,
Sascha
AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on
> > different technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client
> > Application. It is in our interest, that we contribute this project
> > with about 200.000 Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
>
> 200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
Yes, but with the normal quotes. Just the work of one year :)
> > The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed
> > source application. We've already running many websites
> with the CMS',
> > but it was one of the major interests of our initial
> customer, that we
> > will open the source for everyone.
>
> This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
> company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that
> it's "just"
> because of a customer of yours that you're considering it?
> I'm honestly
> curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
"we want to give the community something back", something of
"reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
> Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this
> morning,
> but it's always unavailable.
Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
Regards,
Sascha
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Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>
> we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different
> technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application. It
> is in our interest, that we contribute this project with about 200.000
> Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
> The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source
> application.
> We've already running many websites with the CMS', but it was one of the
> major interests of our initial customer, that we will open the source
> for everyone.
This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that it's "just"
because of a customer of yours that you're considering it? I'm honestly
curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
> So let me know how I can show you how powerful this project is and how I
> can convince you to become the CMS a subproject of one of your projects.
Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this morning,
but it's always unavailable.
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
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Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>
> we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different
> technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application. It
> is in our interest, that we contribute this project with about 200.000
> Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
> The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source
> application.
> We've already running many websites with the CMS', but it was one of the
> major interests of our initial customer, that we will open the source
> for everyone.
This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that it's "just"
because of a customer of yours that you're considering it? I'm honestly
curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
> So let me know how I can show you how powerful this project is and how I
> can convince you to become the CMS a subproject of one of your projects.
Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this morning,
but it's always unavailable.
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>
> we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different
> technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application. It
> is in our interest, that we contribute this project with about 200.000
> Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
> The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source
> application.
> We've already running many websites with the CMS', but it was one of the
> major interests of our initial customer, that we will open the source
> for everyone.
This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that it's "just"
because of a customer of yours that you're considering it? I'm honestly
curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
> So let me know how I can show you how powerful this project is and how I
> can convince you to become the CMS a subproject of one of your projects.
Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this morning,
but it's always unavailable.
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Glen Mazza <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>
wrote:
> we've developed a XML-based Content Management
> System based on different
> technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart
> Client Application.
> It
> is in our interest, that we contribute this project
> with about 200.000
> Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
Good, but focus must remain on whether such a move
would be in *Apache's* interest.
> I've already written to the Incubator project and
> I'm searching for a
> sponsoring Apache member or a major project to get
> the project on the
> road.
> It uses a lot of Cocoon, so it might be a subproject
> of Cocoon, but it
> might be run with another "Rendering-Engine" as
> well.
Cocoon already has a CMS subproject named Lenya
(http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/index2.html). Perhaps
proposing your work to the Cocoon team directly at the
cocoon-dev ML may be a better route; merging your work
with theirs may be of benefit.
Glen
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Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based
CMS
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@OWAL.co.uk>.
At 16:48 28/08/03, Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>Hello,
>
>we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different
>technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application.
Hello Sascha-Matthias
(I have only replied to the general list - I don't think you did yourself
any favours by posting to so many lists at once)
You should definitely familiarise yourself with the Lenya project
(previously Wyona).
This is a Cocoon based CMS currently in the Incubator. It also tries to re-use
other APache components where appropriate.
You should consider contributing your code to the Lenya team
possibly as smaller re-useable components. (Make sure you follow the rules
strictly about assigning copyright!)
Although theoretically I am biased in favour of Lenya and also in favour of
a little friendly competition I would much prefer it if your developers used
your experience of writing ConQuest to improve Lenya rather than try to
replace it.
> The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source
> application.
Why isn't it an open source project already? Perhaps you should Open Source
the project, get loads of OSS developers, and then come back in three months.
Alex McLintock
Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby.
Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Some views:
You have a large blob of code with a small number of developers. Some
suggest this means you need to get a sourceforge project and get a
community going there, but I think that's poor if that's the only way.
My recommendation is that you find 3 Apache committers to sponsor your
project, thus creating the minimum for a community. You also need to
provide the source code for viewing, before you'll even find 1 committer
who'll display a committed interest and, unfortunate as it is, you'll
probably need an english-language version of the site to lure people in.
That will get you one part of the system, a developer community, but your
application also needs to be available for users to download for their own
use so a user community may begin to build. With instructions on how to
use etc. Whether this could happen in the incubation stage of the project,
I don't know. The main incubator project I'm aware of [Tapestry] was a
popular success when it joined and the only issue it had to solve was that
of a small core developer community [1 person I think].
Hen
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
> Hello,
>
> we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different
> technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application. It
> is in our interest, that we contribute this project with about 200.000
> Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
> I've already written to the Incubator project and I'm searching for a
> sponsoring Apache member or a major project to get the project on the
> road.
> It uses a lot of Cocoon, so it might be a subproject of Cocoon, but it
> might be run with another "Rendering-Engine" as well. As it is based on
> XML Content it might be also interesting for the Apache XML project -
> but most of the code is not related to XML anyway.
> So the third project in the round - Jakarta - is comming in the light.
> Just for your interest:
> The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source
> application.
> We've already running many websites with the CMS', but it was one of the
> major interests of our initial customer, that we will open the source
> for everyone. IMHO Apache is the best point for let the project fly into
> the sky of open source. Currently there are three developers envolved
> into the project and actually coding.
> I have already done some stuff for different open source projects and
> also contributed to the Apache James project - tried to reorganize the
> IMAP4 code. (Because of my 16h/day fulltime efford on this CMS project
> it was impossible to do anything else)
> So let me know how I can show you how powerful this project is and how I
> can convince you to become the CMS a subproject of one of your projects.
>
> Please let me know what else could I do to, if this is not the right way
> for seeking a sponsoring Apache member.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sascha-Matthias Kulawik
> JuwiMacMillan Group GmbH
>
> P.S.: The Name of the Product is "ConQuest", it's current Home Page is
> http://conquest.juwimm.net and it is already in use at some customers of
> us.
>
>
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