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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> on 2002/04/12 16:04:41 UTC
Re: new to subversion
Gregor Zeitlinger <ze...@informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:
> I read there's a cvs2svn in planning. Is it done yet?
It's not quite done yet -- it works rudimentarily, but doesn't do
branches or tags yet.
> Can I install svn as a regular user, because I'm not administrator where
> my repository resides?
Certainly. You can build subversion in your home directory, and then
just create a local-access repository using BerkeleyDB.
A word of warning. If you're just a casual CVS user looking for
something better, SVN may not be stable enough for you to use just yet
-- be sure to read our FAQ (excerpt below). If you plan to use SVN,
you might need to put on your "developer hat" and participate on the
developer's list.
-------------
Is Subversion stable enough for me to use for my own projects?
Yes and No.
We say "Yes" because we do believe that Subversion is stable and have
confidence in our code, so we've been self-hosting since September of
2001--eating our own caviar so to speak.
We say "No" because if something goes wrong with our svn repository,
we've got a horde of active developers who will stay up sleepless
nights hunting down the problem and rescuing our data. As altruistic
as this horde might be, they don't have time to rescue the data for
thousands of people who are storing their data in a pre-alpha product.
We say "No" because there's a good chance that the filesystem might
change before we go 1.0, and we don't plan on writing and testing and
shipping conversion utilities.
So, as long as you're willing to take those risks, then go right ahead
and use Subversion.
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
> On Friday 12 April 2002 10:06, you wrote:
> > Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
> > > Being just a little competent in C, I fetched the latest subversion
> > > sources and patched in all the changes in the calls to apr_brigade_*(),
> > > which take two arguments instead of one like before. But if people don't
> > > want to do that by hand, it looks like it is no longer possible to build
> > > any current released version of svn with the current apr.
> >
> > I deny that claim. :-)
> >
> > I just updated (just a half-hour ago!) my svn working copy (r1679),
>
> ^^^^^^^
> I'm using r1587, which was the m10.2 release. Something changed between now
> and then: attached is the diff that I made to get 1587 to compile with apache
Wait, some confusion here.
Please don't expect svn 0.10.2 (r1587) to compile against today's
latest APR. Both projects change quickly. Only two things are
guaranteed(*) to work at any given time:
* a posted tarball will compile against the apr that it contains
internally.
* the latest SVN source will compile against the latest APR source.
As Sander said, please do *not* try any other combinations. The
tarballs are meant to "bootstrap" to the latest svn source... not to
compile and then use with the latest httpd/apr server.
(*) By "guaranteed", we mean that the svn developer hordes will -make-
the combination work.
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com>.
On Friday 12 April 2002 10:06, you wrote:
> Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
> > Being just a little competent in C, I fetched the latest subversion
> > sources and patched in all the changes in the calls to apr_brigade_*(),
> > which take two arguments instead of one like before. But if people don't
> > want to do that by hand, it looks like it is no longer possible to build
> > any current released version of svn with the current apr.
>
> I deny that claim. :-)
>
> I just updated (just a half-hour ago!) my svn working copy (r1679),
^^^^^^^
I'm using r1587, which was the m10.2 release. Something changed between now
and then: attached is the diff that I made to get 1587 to compile with apache
2.0.35.
> then updated the apr and apr-util trees as well. I then did a 'make
> clean' and completely rebuilt everything without a hitch.
>
> So the question is, what are we doing differently?
>
> Hm. Wait. I'm not building mod_dav_svn. Lemme see if I can
Yes, it only happens with mod_dav_svn.
> reproduce.
--
Peter Davis
Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> writes:
> Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
>
> > Being just a little competent in C, I fetched the latest subversion sources
> > and patched in all the changes in the calls to apr_brigade_*(), which take
> > two arguments instead of one like before. But if people don't want to do
> > that by hand, it looks like it is no longer possible to build any current
> > released version of svn with the current apr.
>
> I deny that claim. :-)
>
> I just updated (just a half-hour ago!) my svn working copy (r1679),
> then updated the apr and apr-util trees as well. I then did a 'make
> clean' and completely rebuilt everything without a hitch.
>
> So the question is, what are we doing differently?
>
> Hm. Wait. I'm not building mod_dav_svn. Lemme see if I can
> reproduce.
Well, I *am* building mod_dav_svn. Just built Apache and Subversion
from the HEADS of httpd-2.0, apr, apr-util, and subversion. No
errors.
Perhaps those who are seeing the problems have cruft (previous
versions of apr or apr-util) in their installed header locations?
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
> If using the tarballs is bad, then this is where the docs need to be
> updated (ie., they need to explain why it is bad).
The tarballs are guaranteed to allow you to checkout HEAD, that's it,
nothing more.
Perhaps you're right, though: if people expect more than that, then we
need to crush their expectations... at least until we hit Alpha or
Beta.
(Our documentation, at a minimum, should say that the tarballs will
only work against the httpd and apr from *the day* on which the
tarball was released.)
> Personally, even for a pre-alpha release, I always assume that a
> tarball is more stable than the HEAD. HEADs break, people do a
> partial checkin or whatnot, and I spend an hour debugging. A
> tarball is supposed to just work.
We have a strict policy of HEAD always compiling and passing 'make
check'. If you were to check out all 1680 revisions of subversion,
I suspect 98% of them would pass this test. So you need not be too
paranoid. :-)
I'll go update our docs...
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Garrett Rooney <ro...@electricjellyfish.net>.
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 11:03:44AM -0700, Peter Davis wrote:
> If using the tarballs is bad, then this is where the docs need to be updated
> (ie., they need to explain why it is bad). Personally, even for a pre-alpha
> release, I always assume that a tarball is more stable than the HEAD. HEADs
> break, people do a partial checkin or whatnot, and I spend an hour debugging.
> A tarball is supposed to just work.
the tarball does just work. it just doesn't work with the latest
release of apache2, and the apr that comes with it, which came out
after our tarball did. we can hardly be held responsible for that
;-) if you build with just what came in the tarball, it will work
fine (of course you can't build a server that way, but this is a
pre-alpha project, that's the price you pay for being an early adopter).
-garrett
--
garrett rooney Remember, any design flaw you're
rooneg@electricjellyfish.net sufficiently snide about becomes
http://electricjellyfish.net/ a feature. -- Dan Sugalski
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
> > and get the _lastest_ subversion. Then, use httpd-2.0, apr and
> > apr-util HEAD to build your server. If the documentation isn't
> > clear on this, please point out where it should be improved.
>
> If using the tarballs is bad, then this is where the docs need to be updated
> (ie., they need to explain why it is bad). Personally, even for a pre-alpha
> release, I always assume that a tarball is more stable than the HEAD. HEADs
> break, people do a partial checkin or whatnot, and I spend an hour debugging.
> A tarball is supposed to just work.
A tarball *does* just work for its intended purpose -- to allow
someone to get a working `svn' client binary that can be used in
concert with their existing `cvs' client binary to fetch the latest
versions of Apache 2.0, APR, APR-Util, and Subversion. From those
latest versions, the Subversion world, client and server sides, can be
constructed in full.
> I totally understand that nobody here wants to spend time to support
> outdated tarballs, which is fine.
This isn't a matter of supporting out-of-date tarballs. It's a matter
of not understanding the purposes for which the tarball exists. To
those who know what the tarball exists to accomplish (see the above),
the behavior being complained about here today is both expected and
accurate.
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com>.
On Friday 12 April 2002 10:59, Sander Striker wrote:
> People: don't try to create a subversion server from the tarballs
> found in the download section. To create a server, first bootstrap
Well, I managed to get it to work :), and it works a lot better than it did
two months ago (when 'svn update' segfaulted on me).
> and get the _lastest_ subversion. Then, use httpd-2.0, apr and
> apr-util HEAD to build your server. If the documentation isn't
> clear on this, please point out where it should be improved.
If using the tarballs is bad, then this is where the docs need to be updated
(ie., they need to explain why it is bad). Personally, even for a pre-alpha
release, I always assume that a tarball is more stable than the HEAD. HEADs
break, people do a partial checkin or whatnot, and I spend an hour debugging.
A tarball is supposed to just work.
I totally understand that nobody here wants to spend time to support outdated
tarballs, which is fine. The one other thing in the docs that should be
improved, however, is a list of the version/release/dates of the various
dependencies. For example, if the M10 releases only work with Apache APR
from two months ago, then that should be documented. That way at least if
someone really wants to they can go and build any past version they want.
Philip Martin made an excellent diagnosis of what my issue actually was, and
simply documenting the dependencies for each release would have helped me
avoid that.
--
Peter Davis
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RE: Installing Subversion
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: sussman@collab.net [mailto:sussman@collab.net]
> Sent: 12 April 2002 19:06
Hi,
> Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
>
> > Being just a little competent in C, I fetched the latest subversion sources
> > and patched in all the changes in the calls to apr_brigade_*(), which take
> > two arguments instead of one like before. But if people don't want to do
> > that by hand, it looks like it is no longer possible to build any current
> > released version of svn with the current apr.
>
> I deny that claim. :-)
>
> I just updated (just a half-hour ago!) my svn working copy (r1679),
> then updated the apr and apr-util trees as well. I then did a 'make
> clean' and completely rebuilt everything without a hitch.
>
> So the question is, what are we doing differently?
>
> Hm. Wait. I'm not building mod_dav_svn. Lemme see if I can
> reproduce.
I'm beginning to worry here. I update and rebuild regurlarly;
no problems 99% of the time.
People: don't try to create a subversion server from the tarballs
found in the download section. To create a server, first bootstrap
and get the _lastest_ subversion. Then, use httpd-2.0, apr and
apr-util HEAD to build your server. If the documentation isn't
clear on this, please point out where it should be improved.
Anyhow, bottom line: don't forget to bootstrap. Oh, and always
use the versions of apr/apr-util to match svn (check them out
on the same date for instance).
Hope this helps,
Sander
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
> Being just a little competent in C, I fetched the latest subversion sources
> and patched in all the changes in the calls to apr_brigade_*(), which take
> two arguments instead of one like before. But if people don't want to do
> that by hand, it looks like it is no longer possible to build any current
> released version of svn with the current apr.
I deny that claim. :-)
I just updated (just a half-hour ago!) my svn working copy (r1679),
then updated the apr and apr-util trees as well. I then did a 'make
clean' and completely rebuilt everything without a hitch.
So the question is, what are we doing differently?
Hm. Wait. I'm not building mod_dav_svn. Lemme see if I can
reproduce.
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com>.
On Friday 12 April 2002 09:55, Lele Gaifax wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:20:50 -0500, John Tsangaris
> >>>>> <jo...@webevent.com> said:
>
> JT> subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c: In function
> JT> `dav_svn__log_report': subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c:196: too
> JT> few arguments to function `apr_brigade_create' make: ***
> JT> [subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.lo] Error 1
>
> This is because you are using an older version of the APR
> library. Fetch the latest!
>
> ciao, lele.
Actually, I had this same problem this morning trying to install svn 0.10.2
with both apr from apache-2.0.35 and apache's cvs (which is the latest I
think :->) and both had the same error. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he
needs an *older* version of apr.
Being just a little competent in C, I fetched the latest subversion sources
and patched in all the changes in the calls to apr_brigade_*(), which take
two arguments instead of one like before. But if people don't want to do
that by hand, it looks like it is no longer possible to build any current
released version of svn with the current apr.
--
Peter Davis
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com> writes:
> On Friday 12 April 2002 10:59, Philip Martin wrote:
> > Given that apache-2.0.35 is "the best currently available version",
> > according to the apache website, perhaps we should release a new
> > tarball that works with it.
>
> I'm not very handy with gnu diff, but if someone could clean up the
> patch to 1587 I sent earlier then there wouldn't have to be a full
> new release. Short of waiting for M11, of course.
No need, we're probably releasing an M11 tarball today anyway. :-)
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Peter Davis <pd...@attbi.com>.
On Friday 12 April 2002 10:59, Philip Martin wrote:
> Given that apache-2.0.35 is "the best currently available version",
> according to the apache website, perhaps we should release a new
> tarball that works with it.
I'm not very handy with gnu diff, but if someone could clean up the patch to
1587 I sent earlier then there wouldn't have to be a full new release. Short
of waiting for M11, of course.
On another note, when I tried to build this morning with 1587, libtool was
breaking on '-pthread', saying something like "library not found `'" (notice
the empty quotes). I had to hack up libtool to ignore the -pthread argument.
Has anyone else had this problem? Maybe it's just confined to my system
(Gentoo Linux 1.1a, pretty much stock install).
--
Peter Davis
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by John Tsangaris <jo...@webevent.com>.
Thanks to all who replied!
I did have a wayward version of subversion which I was trying to install
(15**).
I just downloaded the current version from the site (1682+) and am
trying to make, but I have experienced another error:
/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lapr
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [subversion/libsvn_subr/libsvn_subr.la] Error 1
Could someone please clarify (and help rectify) this for me?
TIA!
-John
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Philip Martin <ph...@codematters.co.uk>.
Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> writes:
> John Tsangaris <jo...@webevent.com> writes:
>
> > I've downloaded subversion and am trying to install. I keep getting
> > an error but have been unable to identify why it's dying (other than
> > what the error says):
> >
> > subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c: In function `dav_svn__log_report':
> > subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c:196: too few arguments to function
> > `apr_brigade_create'
> > make: *** [subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.lo] Error 1
> >
> >
> > The criminal line shows:
> >
> > lrb.bb = apr_brigade_create(resource->pool); /* not the subpool! */
> >
> >
> > It looks like it is expecting:
> >
> > APU_DECLARE(apr_bucket_brigade *) apr_brigade_create(apr_pool_t *p)
> >
> >
> > It's been a long time since I've done C.. so it'll take me a little
> > bit to dig into the code to find out what's what.. so I was hoping
> > someone has the 10 second answer.
>
> You're building the the latest SVN tree, right? Revision 1679 or so?
I think he's building the 0.10.2 tarball, that's the one that has the
single argument apr_brigade_create.
>
> Looks like it might be trying to use an old APR library lying around
> your system. Make sure you have the latest APR (from CVS) within your
> tree, and that there isn't an old apr-config binary lying around in
> your /usr/local/bin. Delete any old /usr/local/lib/libsvn* and
> /usr/local/lib/libapr* as well.
Nearly :-) The problem is that he has an APR library that is *newer*
than the tarball, and that is getting used instead of the one bundled
with the tarball. The new APR has the two argument apr_brigade_create.
However the solution is the same, he needs to remove the already
installed apr so that the one bundled with the tarball is used. If
this is not feasible (no root privs, server needs APR, etc.) then a
little 'surgery' on the configure file could be used to force the
bundled APR to be used.
Given that apache-2.0.35 is "the best currently available version",
according to the apache website, perhaps we should release a new
tarball that works with it.
--
Philip
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
John Tsangaris <jo...@webevent.com> writes:
> I've downloaded subversion and am trying to install. I keep getting
> an error but have been unable to identify why it's dying (other than
> what the error says):
>
> subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c: In function `dav_svn__log_report':
> subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c:196: too few arguments to function
> `apr_brigade_create'
> make: *** [subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.lo] Error 1
>
>
> The criminal line shows:
>
> lrb.bb = apr_brigade_create(resource->pool); /* not the subpool! */
>
>
> It looks like it is expecting:
>
> APU_DECLARE(apr_bucket_brigade *) apr_brigade_create(apr_pool_t *p)
>
>
> It's been a long time since I've done C.. so it'll take me a little
> bit to dig into the code to find out what's what.. so I was hoping
> someone has the 10 second answer.
You're building the the latest SVN tree, right? revision 1679 or so?
Looks like it might be trying to use an old APR library lying around
your system. Make sure you have the latest APR (from CVS) within your
tree, and that there isn't an old apr-config binary lying around in
your /usr/local/bin. Delete any old /usr/local/lib/libsvn* and
/usr/local/lib/libapr* as well.
> Also.. any projected date for when 1.0 is coming out? I'm researching
> subversion for the company I work for (yes, I understand it's
> pre-alpha currently.).
Sometime this summer, we expect.
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Re: Installing Subversion
Posted by Lele Gaifax <le...@seldati.it>.
>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:20:50 -0500, John Tsangaris <jo...@webevent.com> said:
JT> subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c: In function
JT> `dav_svn__log_report': subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c:196: too
JT> few arguments to function `apr_brigade_create' make: ***
JT> [subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.lo] Error 1
This is because you are using an older version of the APR
library. Fetch the latest!
ciao, lele.
--
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele@seldati.it | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.
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Installing Subversion
Posted by John Tsangaris <jo...@webevent.com>.
I've downloaded subversion and am trying to install. I keep getting an
error but have been unable to identify why it's dying (other than what
the error says):
subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c: In function `dav_svn__log_report':
subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.c:196: too few arguments to function
`apr_brigade_create'
make: *** [subversion/mod_dav_svn/log.lo] Error 1
The criminal line shows:
lrb.bb = apr_brigade_create(resource->pool); /* not the subpool! */
It looks like it is expecting:
APU_DECLARE(apr_bucket_brigade *) apr_brigade_create(apr_pool_t *p)
It's been a long time since I've done C.. so it'll take me a little bit
to dig into the code to find out what's what.. so I was hoping someone
has the 10 second answer.
Also.. any projected date for when 1.0 is coming out? I'm researching
subversion for the company I work for (yes, I understand it's pre-alpha
currently.).
Thanks!
-John
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Re: new to subversion
Posted by Gregor Zeitlinger <ze...@informatik.hu-berlin.de>.
On 12 Apr 2002, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> Gregor Zeitlinger <ze...@informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:
>
> > I read there's a cvs2svn in planning. Is it done yet?
>
> It's not quite done yet -- it works rudimentarily, but doesn't do
> branches or tags yet.
thats not enought, unfortunately
> We say "No" because there's a good chance that the filesystem might
> change before we go 1.0, and we don't plan on writing and testing and
> shipping conversion utilities.
Ok, I'll wait till 1.0. How much longer could that be?
--
Gregor Zeitlinger
gregor@zeitlinger.de
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