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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Sebastien Arbogast <se...@gmail.com> on 2005/05/23 05:43:13 UTC
[PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Hi there,
I've just published four new ideas on my blog
(http://www.planetcocoon.com/taxonomy/term/60) to implement features
of other successful OSS documentation platforms. Check out the LCP to
see when we will consider those ideas as applicable. Before that your
feedback is greatly welcome and we really need your help in order to
find the best technical solutions to implement those ideas and make
sure they suit your needs perfectly. Moreover, the more feedback we
will get, the sooner we will be able to get a documentation platform
up and running. So feel free to come by and leave comments.
By the way, the community assessment questionnaire from Mark has
reached the end of its LCP so it has moved on to the "Todo" state
(http://www.planetcocoon.com/taxonomy/term/63), which means we will
now implement it and we should be able to publish it soon so that you
can easily answer the survey. We're thinking of a way to propose a
mailing list version of this questionnaire, but as results would be
far more complicated for us to process, we will highly encourage you
to fill in the form that will be available on Planet Cocoon. If you
think you'd never go there to answer that survey and you find it
highly more effective to have it on the mailing list, please tell us
so that we can study more carefully technical solutions to process
them automatically.
See ya' on Planet Cocoon.
@+++
--
Sebastien ARBOGAST
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
> 2005/5/24, Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.tu-graz.ac.at>:
>
>>Hello Sebastien,
>>
>>Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
>>
>>>>>you can see the aliased edges in the letters a, b, o and c. This
>>>>>is causing a very blurry presentation when viewing in normal size.
>>>>
>>>>It rather looks like ClearType is on. I wonder who named that technology
>>>>ClearType anyway
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't think it's because of ClearType, I think it's precisely
>>>because ClearType is deactivated that Gerald gets this. Because I
>>>always have ClearType on and I have no problem. I just tried to
>>>deactivate it and I got almost the same rendering (not as blurry but
>>>it depends on the quality of your screen and your video driver).
>>>Gerald try to make sure that ClearType is on : Control
>>>panel/Display/4th tab/Button Effects...-> Anti-aliasing
>>>method=ClearType
>>>And tell me if the problem is still there.
>>>
>>
>>you're right - using ClearType is even better.
>>
>>When writing about this problem for the first time the font aliasing
>>was set to "default" which makes your page (i.e. the font your are
>>using) very difficult to read.
>>
>>Disabling font aliasing results in a much better presentation, Clear-
>>Type is excellent. But I will still have to decide if I like this
>>technology because now every application benefits from this which
>>looks quite unfamiliar (at least for now).
>>
>>Thank you for your help :)
>>
>>Gerald
>>
>
> I've always used it and I don't even understand why Windows gives you
> the possibility to turn it off. I couldn't use my computer without
> ClearType. And performance can't be the issue anymore...
Don't want to be annoying, but why is this discussiong happening overhere?
--
Stefano.
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Sebastien Arbogast <se...@gmail.com>.
2005/5/24, Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.tu-graz.ac.at>:
> Hello Sebastien,
>
> Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
> >>>you can see the aliased edges in the letters a, b, o and c. This
> >>>is causing a very blurry presentation when viewing in normal size.
> >>
> >>It rather looks like ClearType is on. I wonder who named that technology
> >>ClearType anyway
> >
> >
> > I don't think it's because of ClearType, I think it's precisely
> > because ClearType is deactivated that Gerald gets this. Because I
> > always have ClearType on and I have no problem. I just tried to
> > deactivate it and I got almost the same rendering (not as blurry but
> > it depends on the quality of your screen and your video driver).
> > Gerald try to make sure that ClearType is on : Control
> > panel/Display/4th tab/Button Effects...-> Anti-aliasing
> > method=ClearType
> > And tell me if the problem is still there.
> >
>
> you're right - using ClearType is even better.
>
> When writing about this problem for the first time the font aliasing
> was set to "default" which makes your page (i.e. the font your are
> using) very difficult to read.
>
> Disabling font aliasing results in a much better presentation, Clear-
> Type is excellent. But I will still have to decide if I like this
> technology because now every application benefits from this which
> looks quite unfamiliar (at least for now).
>
> Thank you for your help :)
>
> Gerald
>
I've always used it and I don't even understand why Windows gives you
the possibility to turn it off. I couldn't use my computer without
ClearType. And performance can't be the issue anymore...
--
Sebastien ARBOGAST
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.tu-graz.ac.at>.
Hello Sebastien,
Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
>>>you can see the aliased edges in the letters a, b, o and c. This
>>>is causing a very blurry presentation when viewing in normal size.
>>
>>It rather looks like ClearType is on. I wonder who named that technology
>>ClearType anyway
>
>
> I don't think it's because of ClearType, I think it's precisely
> because ClearType is deactivated that Gerald gets this. Because I
> always have ClearType on and I have no problem. I just tried to
> deactivate it and I got almost the same rendering (not as blurry but
> it depends on the quality of your screen and your video driver).
> Gerald try to make sure that ClearType is on : Control
> panel/Display/4th tab/Button Effects...-> Anti-aliasing
> method=ClearType
> And tell me if the problem is still there.
>
you're right - using ClearType is even better.
When writing about this problem for the first time the font aliasing
was set to "default" which makes your page (i.e. the font your are
using) very difficult to read.
Disabling font aliasing results in a much better presentation, Clear-
Type is excellent. But I will still have to decide if I like this
technology because now every application benefits from this which
looks quite unfamiliar (at least for now).
Thank you for your help :)
Gerald
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Sebastien Arbogast <se...@gmail.com>.
> > you can see the aliased edges in the letters a, b, o and c. This
> > is causing a very blurry presentation when viewing in normal size.
> It rather looks like ClearType is on. I wonder who named that technology
> ClearType anyway
I don't think it's because of ClearType, I think it's precisely
because ClearType is deactivated that Gerald gets this. Because I
always have ClearType on and I have no problem. I just tried to
deactivate it and I got almost the same rendering (not as blurry but
it depends on the quality of your screen and your video driver).
Gerald try to make sure that ClearType is on : Control
panel/Display/4th tab/Button Effects...-> Anti-aliasing
method=ClearType
And tell me if the problem is still there.
--
Sebastien ARBOGAST
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.tu-graz.ac.at>.
Hi Leszek,
Leszek Gawron wrote:
> Gerald Aichholzer wrote:
>
>> Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
>>
>>> 2005/5/23, Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.edu>:
>>>
>>>> What fonts are you using? In my environment (Firefox 1.04, WinXP Pro)
>>>> my eyes get hurt (same for Opera and IE) :/
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Could you please send me a screenshot of what you can see so that I
>>> can identify where the problem is ?
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_zoomed.png
>>
>> you can see the aliased edges in the letters a, b, o and c. This
>> is causing a very blurry presentation when viewing in normal size.
>
> It rather looks like ClearType is on. I wonder who named that technology
> ClearType anyway
>
this is what I am asking myself, too ;-)
Thanx for your info, this has solved the problem. Although not ClearType
but the default font aliasing was enabled. Disabling it made everything
much better.
The only strange thing is that planet cocoon is the first page I have
such problems with. Aliasing might be dependant on the font.
Gerald
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Leszek Gawron <lg...@mobilebox.pl>.
Gerald Aichholzer wrote:
> Hi Sebastien,
>
> Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
>
>> 2005/5/23, Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.edu>:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> But something completely different:
>>>
>>> What fonts are you using? In my environment (Firefox 1.04, WinXP Pro)
>>> my eyes get hurt (same for Opera and IE) :/
>>>
>>> Well, it is very difficult to read for me and I would suggest a
>>> different font (or is it my system?). It looks like some font-
>>> aliasing goes wrong and your text is shown extremely blurred.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is exactly the kind of feedback we need (among other kinds :-P)
>> Because in my firefox, maxthon or opera I perfectly see it, even if
>> the main font is not installed (Bitstream Vera Sans ! I didn't even
>> know of it... thx Mark ;-)) I can read Verdana (the second one in the
>> CSS list).
>>
>> Could you please send me a screenshot of what you can see so that I
>> can identify where the problem is ?
>>
>
> I just wanted to point out a possible problem - I might not be the
> only one. You can find screenshots here (~200kB each):
>
> http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_firefox.png
> http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_opera.png
> http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_ie.png
>
> Anyway it looks like some configuration with my notebook (although
> I haven't touched anything - as always ^^). I have just tried on
> a second computer - there it looks better, but it looks like it
> has font aliasing deactivated.
>
> If you look at
>
> http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_zoomed.png
>
> you can see the aliased edges in the letters a, b, o and c. This
> is causing a very blurry presentation when viewing in normal size.
It rather looks like ClearType is on. I wonder who named that technology
ClearType anyway
--
Leszek Gawron lgawron@mobilebox.pl
IT Manager MobileBox sp. z o.o.
+48 (61) 855 06 67 http://www.mobilebox.pl
mobile: +48 (501) 720 812 fax: +48 (61) 853 29 65
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.tu-graz.ac.at>.
Hi Sebastien,
Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
> 2005/5/23, Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.edu>:
>
>[...]
>
>>But something completely different:
>>
>>What fonts are you using? In my environment (Firefox 1.04, WinXP Pro)
>>my eyes get hurt (same for Opera and IE) :/
>>
>>Well, it is very difficult to read for me and I would suggest a
>>different font (or is it my system?). It looks like some font-
>>aliasing goes wrong and your text is shown extremely blurred.
>
>
> This is exactly the kind of feedback we need (among other kinds :-P)
> Because in my firefox, maxthon or opera I perfectly see it, even if
> the main font is not installed (Bitstream Vera Sans ! I didn't even
> know of it... thx Mark ;-)) I can read Verdana (the second one in the
> CSS list).
>
> Could you please send me a screenshot of what you can see so that I
> can identify where the problem is ?
>
I just wanted to point out a possible problem - I might not be the
only one. You can find screenshots here (~200kB each):
http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_firefox.png
http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_opera.png
http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_ie.png
Anyway it looks like some configuration with my notebook (although
I haven't touched anything - as always ^^). I have just tried on
a second computer - there it looks better, but it looks like it
has font aliasing deactivated.
If you look at
http://www.sbox.tugraz.at/home/g/gary/planetcocoon_zoomed.png
you can see the aliased edges in the letters a, b, o and c. This
is causing a very blurry presentation when viewing in normal size.
thanx a lot,
Gerald
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Sebastien Arbogast <se...@gmail.com>.
2005/5/23, Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.edu>:
> Hi Sebastien,
>
> Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
> >
> > I've just published four new ideas on my blog
> > (http://www.planetcocoon.com/taxonomy/term/60) to implement features
> > of other successful OSS documentation platforms.
> >
> > [...]
>
> great ideas :-) *thumbsup*
>
> But something completely different:
>
> What fonts are you using? In my environment (Firefox 1.04, WinXP Pro)
> my eyes get hurt (same for Opera and IE) :/
>
> Well, it is very difficult to read for me and I would suggest a
> different font (or is it my system?). It looks like some font-
> aliasing goes wrong and your text is shown extremely blurred.
This is exactly the kind of feedback we need (among other kinds :-P)
Because in my firefox, maxthon or opera I perfectly see it, even if
the main font is not installed (Bitstream Vera Sans ! I didn't even
know of it... thx Mark ;-)) I can read Verdana (the second one in the
CSS list).
Could you please send me a screenshot of what you can see so that I
can identify where the problem is ?
--
Sebastien ARBOGAST
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Gerald Aichholzer <ga...@iicm.edu>.
Hi Sebastien,
Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
>
> I've just published four new ideas on my blog
> (http://www.planetcocoon.com/taxonomy/term/60) to implement features
> of other successful OSS documentation platforms.
>
> [...]
great ideas :-) *thumbsup*
But something completely different:
What fonts are you using? In my environment (Firefox 1.04, WinXP Pro)
my eyes get hurt (same for Opera and IE) :/
Well, it is very difficult to read for me and I would suggest a
different font (or is it my system?). It looks like some font-
aliasing goes wrong and your text is shown extremely blurred.
Gerald
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Sebastien Arbogast <se...@gmail.com>.
> Sure. Note that I just applied a patch to both the 2.1 branch and the
> trunk, which allows you to add annotation to sitemaps, like:
>
> <map:match pattern="news.pdf">
> <n:explain>Get news in XML from server</n:explain>
> <map:generate src="http://newsserver/somestuff.xml"/>
>
> <n:explain>Convert to xsl-fo</n:explain>
> <map:transform src="news-to-fo.xsl"/>
>
> <n:explain>
> And let <a href="http://xml.apache.org/fop">FOP</a> generate PDF
> </n:explain>
> <map:serialize type="fo2pdf"/>
> </map:match>
>
> This could be very useful to create self-describing samples.
This is definitely interesting.
> There's also stuff in the tour block that could be reused to extract
> code excerpts from sitemaps, xml and text files.
We'll study that very carefully because we began to talk about this
documentation-code integration feature and it seems to be a tricky
thing. So any other trial to get to that kind of thing would help up
to start.
Thx for that.
--
Sebastien ARBOGAST
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 23 mai 05, à 20:33, Sebastien Arbogast a écrit :
> ...finally it appears
> it's not as interesting as I thought at the beginning because current
> samples are code only whereas we think code-illustrated documentation
> is what we need most...
Sure. Note that I just applied a patch to both the 2.1 branch and the
trunk, which allows you to add annotation to sitemaps, like:
<map:match pattern="news.pdf">
<n:explain>Get news in XML from server</n:explain>
<map:generate src="http://newsserver/somestuff.xml"/>
<n:explain>Convert to xsl-fo</n:explain>
<map:transform src="news-to-fo.xsl"/>
<n:explain>
And let <a href="http://xml.apache.org/fop">FOP</a> generate PDF
</n:explain>
<map:serialize type="fo2pdf"/>
</map:match>
This could be very useful to create self-describing samples.
There's also stuff in the tour block that could be reused to extract
code excerpts from sitemaps, xml and text files.
-Bertrand
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Sebastien Arbogast <se...@gmail.com>.
2005/5/23, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
> Le 23 mai 05, à 13:28, Sebastien Arbogast a écrit :
>
> > ...You're totally right and you remember me that samples should be part
> > of Cocoon documentation as well as any other document. Maybe we could
> > integrate that in Planet Cocoon range. WDYT ? Would you like to help
> > us in that matter ?
>
> Not on planetcocoon, sorry. I'm struggling to do something useful here
> already, due to lack of Copious Free Time and/or Customers Financing
> Cool Documentation Projects ;-)
>
> So if I ever get to implement this samples matrix it will be right here
> in the Cocoon codebase.
So be it ! Anyway I discussed that with Mark and finally it appears
it's not as interesting as I thought at the beginning because current
samples are code only whereas we think code-illustrated documentation
is what we need most. So... good cheer for your matrix :-)
--
Sebastien ARBOGAST
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 23 mai 05, à 13:28, Sebastien Arbogast a écrit :
> ...You're totally right and you remember me that samples should be part
> of Cocoon documentation as well as any other document. Maybe we could
> integrate that in Planet Cocoon range. WDYT ? Would you like to help
> us in that matter ?
Not on planetcocoon, sorry. I'm struggling to do something useful here
already, due to lack of Copious Free Time and/or Customers Financing
Cool Documentation Projects ;-)
So if I ever get to implement this samples matrix it will be right here
in the Cocoon codebase.
-Bertrand
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Sebastien Arbogast <se...@gmail.com>.
2005/5/23, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
> Hi Sebastien,
>
> > ...I've just published four new ideas on my blog..
>
> About "Typo3-like documentation matrix" - I've been thinking for a
> while that a matrix of our *samples* would be a big help: having all
> samples listed on a single page (and possibly categorized or
> "folksonomized") would make it much easier to find which sample
> demonstrates a given problem.
>
> I haven't found time to implement this yet, but it shouldn't be too
> hard given that the samples table of contents page is generated out of
> individual .xsamples documents.
You're totally right and you remember me that samples should be part
of Cocoon documentation as well as any other document. Maybe we could
integrate that in Planet Cocoon range. WDYT ? Would you like to help
us in that matter ?
--
Sébastien Arbogast
Re: [PlanetCocoon] 4 new ideas to discuss on Planet Cocoon
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Sebastien,
> ...I've just published four new ideas on my blog..
About "Typo3-like documentation matrix" - I've been thinking for a
while that a matrix of our *samples* would be a big help: having all
samples listed on a single page (and possibly categorized or
"folksonomized") would make it much easier to find which sample
demonstrates a given problem.
I haven't found time to implement this yet, but it shouldn't be too
hard given that the samples table of contents page is generated out of
individual .xsamples documents.
-Bertrand