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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Austin Bennett <au...@apache.org> on 2020/07/13 17:03:56 UTC
ASF Slack for community?
Hi Apache CommDev,
Unsure if this is the right place, but starting here...
Working on building Apache Beam's community, and have a forthcoming
https://beamsummit.org
The event is virtual, and we would like to invite attendees (potentially a
few hundred) to use some sort of messaging and likely slack to interact
with eachother/speakers/etc during the event.
We had thought ASF slack would be great, as we have many #beam channels,
and also with people signing up might get additional exposure to additional
projects and the foundation overall. Is there any issues in us using
https://s.apache.org/slack-invite <http://s.apache.org/slack-invite> for
this purpose (we'd then create some #beamsummit... channels, etc)?
Thanks,
Austin
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 7/14/20 5:31 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:
> Hi Jarek, Great to hear -- my hope would be that Beam intends to
> use/grow/play well with the overall Apache Community. We don't currently
> have our own Slack community, though that is also a possibility to setup.
> I am imagining it is better if those users are in ASF and therefore might
> attend to and collaborate with/contribute to other projects as well.
>
Thanks, Austin. This response makes my heart warm. Thank you so much for
encouraging cross-project collaboration in this way.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
@rbowen
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Re: Dev model questions (Was Re: ASF Slack for community?)
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 7/17/2020 11:44 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>
> On 7/17/20 2:37 PM, Armstrong Foundjem wrote:
>> Hello ASF community members:
>> I am a research student on FOSS, and currently, I am looking into the
>> Apache ecosystem to understand the release mechanisms that ASF
>> projects follow/use. However, it’s not trivial to understand without
>> the help of expects like you in the community.
>>
>> Please, can you help me out answer the following questions?
>>
>> 1. What is the release cycle of Apache projects (how many times a year
>> does ASF releases a new version of it’s products)?
>
> Each project makes its own decisions on this.
To expand a little on this, each project has a Project Management
Committee. The decisions you are asking about are made for each project
by its PMC.
The central organization is mainly concerned with providing some
infrastructure, a non-profit framework, and ensuring each project has a
healthy community with a functioning PMC to make its decisions.
If you want to understand ASF better, I suggest picking a few projects
that interest you and, for each PROJECT_NAME, subscribing to
dev@PROJECT_NAME.apache.org. There you will see the project in action.
>
>> 2. What release model / release process do projects follow? Are these
>> models/process very strict or are they flexible for different projects
>> to do things they own way?
>
> Each project makes its own decisions on this.
>
>> 3. Are ASF projects inter-dependent to each other during development
>> cycle of each project is completely unique in following it’s own road
>> map?
>
> Each project makes its own decisions on this. There are some projects
> that are interdependent, but it's not widespread.
>
>>
>> Thank you for your time in answering these questions.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Armstrong Foundjem,
>> Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal, Canada
>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2020, at 10:48, Austin Bennett
>>> <wh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Julian,
>>>
>>> Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people
>>> interested
>>> in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the communication
>>> platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to
>>> expand
>>> the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly
>>> tradeoffs.
>>>
>>> Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation to use
>>> seems a separate discussion.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Austin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <ju...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
>>>> [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
>>>> sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other
>>>> systems.
>>>> In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
>>>> XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
>>>> from Mozilla to universities and governments.
>>>>
>>>> It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
>>>> presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix devs do
>>>> it and wrote a blog post describing how:
>>>> https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
>>>>
>>>> Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
>>>> proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in
>>>> fact
>>>> be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
>>>> space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and
>>>> now
>>>> I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
>>>> such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
>>>>
>>>> I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own
>>>> Matrix
>>>> server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization. I
>>>> run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
>>>> single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
>>>> WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
>>>> diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
>>>>
>>>> I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
>>>> contacts.
>>>>
>>>> - Julian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See:
>>>>
>>>> * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
>>>>
>>>> * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
>>>>
>>>> * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
>>>> the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how
>>>> Redhat
>>>> is to Linux)
>>>>
>>>> * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
>>>> government deployments of Matrix
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
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Dev model questions (Was Re: ASF Slack for community?)
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 7/17/20 2:37 PM, Armstrong Foundjem wrote:
> Hello ASF community members:
> I am a research student on FOSS, and currently, I am looking into the Apache ecosystem to understand the release mechanisms that ASF projects follow/use. However, it’s not trivial to understand without the help of expects like you in the community.
>
> Please, can you help me out answer the following questions?
>
> 1. What is the release cycle of Apache projects (how many times a year does ASF releases a new version of it’s products)?
Each project makes its own decisions on this.
> 2. What release model / release process do projects follow? Are these models/process very strict or are they flexible for different projects to do things they own way?
Each project makes its own decisions on this.
> 3. Are ASF projects inter-dependent to each other during development cycle of each project is completely unique in following it’s own road map?
Each project makes its own decisions on this. There are some projects
that are interdependent, but it's not widespread.
>
> Thank you for your time in answering these questions.
>
> Best regards,
> Armstrong Foundjem,
> Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal, Canada
>
>> On Jul 17, 2020, at 10:48, Austin Bennett <wh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Julian,
>>
>> Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people interested
>> in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the communication
>> platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to expand
>> the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly tradeoffs.
>>
>> Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation to use
>> seems a separate discussion.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Austin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
>>> [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
>>> sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other systems.
>>> In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
>>> XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
>>> from Mozilla to universities and governments.
>>>
>>> It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
>>> presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix devs do
>>> it and wrote a blog post describing how:
>>> https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
>>>
>>> Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
>>> proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in fact
>>> be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
>>> space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and now
>>> I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
>>> such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
>>>
>>> I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own Matrix
>>> server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization. I
>>> run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
>>> single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
>>> WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
>>> diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
>>>
>>> I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
>>> contacts.
>>>
>>> - Julian
>>>
>>>
>>> See:
>>>
>>> * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
>>>
>>> * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
>>>
>>> * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
>>> the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how Redhat
>>> is to Linux)
>>>
>>> * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
>>> government deployments of Matrix
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
>
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
@rbowen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Armstrong Foundjem <fo...@gmail.com>.
Hello ASF community members:
I am a research student on FOSS, and currently, I am looking into the Apache ecosystem to understand the release mechanisms that ASF projects follow/use. However, it’s not trivial to understand without the help of expects like you in the community.
Please, can you help me out answer the following questions?
1. What is the release cycle of Apache projects (how many times a year does ASF releases a new version of it’s products)?
2. What release model / release process do projects follow? Are these models/process very strict or are they flexible for different projects to do things they own way?
3. Are ASF projects inter-dependent to each other during development cycle of each project is completely unique in following it’s own road map?
Thank you for your time in answering these questions.
Best regards,
Armstrong Foundjem,
Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal, Canada
> On Jul 17, 2020, at 10:48, Austin Bennett <wh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Julian,
>
> Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people interested
> in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the communication
> platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to expand
> the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly tradeoffs.
>
> Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation to use
> seems a separate discussion.
>
> Cheers,
> Austin
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
>> [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
>> sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other systems.
>> In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
>> XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
>> from Mozilla to universities and governments.
>>
>> It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
>> presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix devs do
>> it and wrote a blog post describing how:
>> https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
>>
>> Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
>> proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in fact
>> be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
>> space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and now
>> I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
>> such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
>>
>> I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own Matrix
>> server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization. I
>> run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
>> single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
>> WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
>> diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
>>
>> I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
>> contacts.
>>
>> - Julian
>>
>>
>> See:
>>
>> * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
>>
>> * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
>>
>> * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
>> the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how Redhat
>> is to Linux)
>>
>> * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
>> government deployments of Matrix
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>
>>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Austin Bennett <wh...@gmail.com>.
Dear Infra:
Can you please confirm we would not be terrible community members by using
the slack for our stated and intended purpose?
Since this is an event to grow the community, we need to ensure the uptime
of s.apache.org/slack-invite throughout, so verifying we are playing nicely
to avoid issues (for pettier individuals or if viewed as not playing nice,
I would be very concerned about that uptime, because downtime during the
event would have negative consequences for growing the Beam [and by
relation, collaboration] the Apache community. Also, ASF is also a
"community partner" for the event, for whatever that is worth.
Furthermore, letting this start a kickoff for discussion if useful to
establish up an additional link or method to track, ex:
s.apache.org/beam-summit-slack-invite - if we are worried about [desire
for] attributing signups. I suspect that's overkill (and would rather
not), but am willing to code that up for the foundation, if that helps this
get done.
Thanks,
Austin
P.S. Thanks, Roy.
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:31 AM Roy Lenferink <rl...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Also keep in mind that Slack uses a Fair Billing Policy [1]. You won't be
> billed for inactive members (inactive being if a member didn't use its
> Slack account in over 14 days).
> Having a certain number of users join during/after a conference they
> probably all have useful input for the Beam community (code, documentation,
> presentation or as a potential Beam user).
> In the first couple of weeks after the conference most of that input will
> probably be collected (the yay factor for new projects). And if not they
> will probably go inactive and you won't be billed for them.
>
> So I agree with Austin here, does the cost of adding the users outweigh
> the addition of potential new contributors.
>
> Also, if the cost of Slack is becoming too much for the ASF (don't know if
> we have a sponsored instance?), how about e.g. Mattermost [2][3] as a
> self-hosted alternative (or only for conferences) ? Just throwing some
> ideas out there..
>
> - Roy
>
> [1]
> https://slack.com/intl/en-nl/help/articles/218915077-Fair-Billing-Policy
> [2] https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server
> [3] https://mattermost.com/
>
> Op ma 27 jul. 2020 om 18:31 schreef Austin Bennett <
> whatwouldaustindo@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> My intent would be to use this ASF Resource for communication of
>> potential newcomers to the Beam community (and with the hope that they
>> become involved with the foundation overall), looking to state that
>> clearly.
>>
>> Cost is a reasonable argument -- but I need to question whether the
>> financial costs outweigh the potential benefits, and therefore looking to
>> make explicit the purpose of the Slack Community, if this is something we
>> are going to be told not to do.
>>
>>
>> As a thought exercise/perspective; please bear with the following -->
>>
>> * I have been in the ASF Slack long before I was a committer on the
>> project.
>> * There is lots of activity in the ASF Slack Beam channels from
>> non-committers (and a way to identify future committers, based on positive
>> interactions with the community).
>> * I lead workshops (in most cases personal free/volunteer time) on
>> getting involved with contributing to OpenSource/ASF/Beam, and I certainly
>> point all attendees to the training to ASF Slack channel (as well as
>> mailing lists) -- should I not be doing that?
>>
>> One potentially useful, but not great analogy would be traditional
>> funnels and conversion rates -- would like to build a funnel and community
>> for Beam (and serving ASF more generally), people that are
>> interested/curious, some of which will convert to maintaining activity ->
>> learning more -> chatting with others -> contributing
>> docs/use-case/bugs/code -> becoming committers -> etc... In that light,
>> you can see how there are benefits for this to be the start of an
>> interaction and journey for people to get involved with the foundation?
>> That is at least my goal/motivation.
>>
>> How do we distinguish users in this case (say anyone I point to the Slack
>> channels as a way to start following a community and getting involved in
>> discussions), from a broader conference attendee (in the cases, such
>> workshops are often at conferences)? Why would we exclude people/purpose?
>>
>> Do my aims make sense? Is growing the ASF community in this manner not
>> supported by the infrastructure? If Slack is not a useful common tool that
>> we can point anyone to, should we be using it? Or, at least can someone
>> provide clear bounds on what is OK and not OK to be doing with it?
>>
>> Proposal: we use this slack channel for the BeamSummit, and learn how it
>> goes.
>> If concerned about persisting user accounts, perhaps can we configure an
>> alternate link (if given permissions, I am willing) and we can track the
>> signups through that link [ s.apache.org/
>> <http://s.apache.org/slack-invite>temp-slack-invite ] - and
>> auto-expire/delete their account after 30 days (or some interval) without
>> some additional requirements to keep them as users. It seems the fear is
>> around accounts getting created that are not used and costing money. I
>> suspect (a) there are alot of inactive accounts, and (b) that we should be
>> supporting the growing community in the same place.
>>
>> Thanks for bearing with this long message.
>> Austin
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:15 PM Chris Thistlethwaite <ch...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Infra discussed this at our last team meeting. Currently the way Slack
>>> invites work via s.apache.org/slack-invite sends out an invite to
>>> become
>>> a full member of the-asf.slack.com. You can read a bit more about this
>>> at https://infra.apache.org/slack.html. The issue with that is members
>>> (Slack Members NOT ASF Members) then cost money for the ASF, which will
>>> be hard to track and forecast if every project starts using the-asf
>>> workspace as a conference meet-up area. There's not an official way to
>>> invite someone as a Single Channel Guest to Slack without their email
>>> address. There's no URL they can visit to get an invite. There are
>>> products out there that use a deprecated Slack API, but they aren't well
>>> maintained and Slack can turn off the API whenever they want. So as of
>>> this writing, we're recommending against using the-asf.slack.com for
>>> mass conference invites.
>>>
>>> We tried a workaround of sharing a channel with apachecon.slack.com,
>>> however you can't share a channel from a paid Slack instance to a free
>>> instance.
>>>
>>> I'm just throwing out ideas, but if you had a list of email addresses
>>> for attendees, you could bulk invite everyone as a Single Channel Guest
>>> (they'd just have access to #beam). Then they get the added bonus of
>>> being apart of the official Slack instance, can talk in the #beam
>>> channel as needed and if they become a committer to Beam then they could
>>> be "upgraded" to a full member account. Again, I'm just throwing it out
>>> there as no one has ever really talked about the process/workflow of a
>>> large group being dumped into Slack.
>>>
>>> -Chris T.
>>> #asfinfra
>>>
>>> On 7/18/20 8:01 AM, Matthias Baetens wrote:
>>> > Thanks for bringing this to the ComDev mailing list, Austin. As part
>>> > of the Beam Summit org team, I am in strong favour of making this part
>>> > of the ASF Slack with the goal of growing the Beam community there and
>>> > expose people to the ASF overall, over splintering the community over
>>> > different Slack channels - this with the assumption in mind that it is
>>> > ok from an infrastructure POV. As community events grow (and hopefully
>>> > budget with it), I'd even propose we try and share burden of cost in
>>> > that direction in the future.
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 15:49, Austin Bennett
>>> > <whatwouldaustindo@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thanks, Julian,
>>> >
>>> > Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people
>>> > interested
>>> > in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the
>>> communication
>>> > platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to
>>> > expand
>>> > the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly
>>> > tradeoffs.
>>> >
>>> > Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation
>>> > to use
>>> > seems a separate discussion.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Austin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <julianfoad@apache.org
>>> > <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider
>>> using
>>> > > [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for
>>> this
>>> > > sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other
>>> > systems.
>>> > > In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other
>>> > contenders like
>>> > > XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by
>>> > organisations
>>> > > from Mozilla to universities and governments.
>>> > >
>>> > > It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
>>> > > presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix
>>> > devs do
>>> > > it and wrote a blog post describing how:
>>> > > https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
>>> > >
>>> > > Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
>>> > > proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would
>>> > in fact
>>> > > be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching
>>> this
>>> > > space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak,
>>> > and now
>>> > > I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global
>>> > need for
>>> > > such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating
>>> rapidly.
>>> > >
>>> > > I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their
>>> > own Matrix
>>> > > server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of
>>> > organization. I
>>> > > run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
>>> > > single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge),
>>> > all my
>>> > > WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes
>>> like
>>> > > diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
>>> > >
>>> > > I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with
>>> specific
>>> > > contacts.
>>> > >
>>> > > - Julian
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > See:
>>> > >
>>> > > * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
>>> > >
>>> > > * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see
>>> above
>>> > >
>>> > > * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an
>>> > introduction to
>>> > > the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like
>>> > how Redhat
>>> > > is to Linux)
>>> > >
>>> > > * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news
>>> about big
>>> > > government deployments of Matrix
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>> > <ma...@community.apache.org>
>>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>> > <ma...@community.apache.org>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Roy Lenferink <rl...@apache.org>.
Also keep in mind that Slack uses a Fair Billing Policy [1]. You won't be
billed for inactive members (inactive being if a member didn't use its
Slack account in over 14 days).
Having a certain number of users join during/after a conference they
probably all have useful input for the Beam community (code, documentation,
presentation or as a potential Beam user).
In the first couple of weeks after the conference most of that input will
probably be collected (the yay factor for new projects). And if not they
will probably go inactive and you won't be billed for them.
So I agree with Austin here, does the cost of adding the users outweigh the
addition of potential new contributors.
Also, if the cost of Slack is becoming too much for the ASF (don't know if
we have a sponsored instance?), how about e.g. Mattermost [2][3] as a
self-hosted alternative (or only for conferences) ? Just throwing some
ideas out there..
- Roy
[1] https://slack.com/intl/en-nl/help/articles/218915077-Fair-Billing-Policy
[2] https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-server
[3] https://mattermost.com/
Op ma 27 jul. 2020 om 18:31 schreef Austin Bennett <
whatwouldaustindo@gmail.com>:
> Hi All,
>
> My intent would be to use this ASF Resource for communication of potential
> newcomers to the Beam community (and with the hope that they become
> involved with the foundation overall), looking to state that clearly.
>
> Cost is a reasonable argument -- but I need to question whether the
> financial costs outweigh the potential benefits, and therefore looking to
> make explicit the purpose of the Slack Community, if this is something we
> are going to be told not to do.
>
>
> As a thought exercise/perspective; please bear with the following -->
>
> * I have been in the ASF Slack long before I was a committer on the
> project.
> * There is lots of activity in the ASF Slack Beam channels from
> non-committers (and a way to identify future committers, based on positive
> interactions with the community).
> * I lead workshops (in most cases personal free/volunteer time) on getting
> involved with contributing to OpenSource/ASF/Beam, and I certainly point
> all attendees to the training to ASF Slack channel (as well as mailing
> lists) -- should I not be doing that?
>
> One potentially useful, but not great analogy would be traditional funnels
> and conversion rates -- would like to build a funnel and community for Beam
> (and serving ASF more generally), people that are interested/curious, some
> of which will convert to maintaining activity -> learning more -> chatting
> with others -> contributing docs/use-case/bugs/code -> becoming committers
> -> etc... In that light, you can see how there are benefits for this to be
> the start of an interaction and journey for people to get involved with the
> foundation? That is at least my goal/motivation.
>
> How do we distinguish users in this case (say anyone I point to the Slack
> channels as a way to start following a community and getting involved in
> discussions), from a broader conference attendee (in the cases, such
> workshops are often at conferences)? Why would we exclude people/purpose?
>
> Do my aims make sense? Is growing the ASF community in this manner not
> supported by the infrastructure? If Slack is not a useful common tool that
> we can point anyone to, should we be using it? Or, at least can someone
> provide clear bounds on what is OK and not OK to be doing with it?
>
> Proposal: we use this slack channel for the BeamSummit, and learn how it
> goes.
> If concerned about persisting user accounts, perhaps can we configure an
> alternate link (if given permissions, I am willing) and we can track the
> signups through that link [ s.apache.org/
> <http://s.apache.org/slack-invite>temp-slack-invite ] - and
> auto-expire/delete their account after 30 days (or some interval) without
> some additional requirements to keep them as users. It seems the fear is
> around accounts getting created that are not used and costing money. I
> suspect (a) there are alot of inactive accounts, and (b) that we should be
> supporting the growing community in the same place.
>
> Thanks for bearing with this long message.
> Austin
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:15 PM Chris Thistlethwaite <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Infra discussed this at our last team meeting. Currently the way Slack
>> invites work via s.apache.org/slack-invite sends out an invite to become
>> a full member of the-asf.slack.com. You can read a bit more about this
>> at https://infra.apache.org/slack.html. The issue with that is members
>> (Slack Members NOT ASF Members) then cost money for the ASF, which will
>> be hard to track and forecast if every project starts using the-asf
>> workspace as a conference meet-up area. There's not an official way to
>> invite someone as a Single Channel Guest to Slack without their email
>> address. There's no URL they can visit to get an invite. There are
>> products out there that use a deprecated Slack API, but they aren't well
>> maintained and Slack can turn off the API whenever they want. So as of
>> this writing, we're recommending against using the-asf.slack.com for
>> mass conference invites.
>>
>> We tried a workaround of sharing a channel with apachecon.slack.com,
>> however you can't share a channel from a paid Slack instance to a free
>> instance.
>>
>> I'm just throwing out ideas, but if you had a list of email addresses
>> for attendees, you could bulk invite everyone as a Single Channel Guest
>> (they'd just have access to #beam). Then they get the added bonus of
>> being apart of the official Slack instance, can talk in the #beam
>> channel as needed and if they become a committer to Beam then they could
>> be "upgraded" to a full member account. Again, I'm just throwing it out
>> there as no one has ever really talked about the process/workflow of a
>> large group being dumped into Slack.
>>
>> -Chris T.
>> #asfinfra
>>
>> On 7/18/20 8:01 AM, Matthias Baetens wrote:
>> > Thanks for bringing this to the ComDev mailing list, Austin. As part
>> > of the Beam Summit org team, I am in strong favour of making this part
>> > of the ASF Slack with the goal of growing the Beam community there and
>> > expose people to the ASF overall, over splintering the community over
>> > different Slack channels - this with the assumption in mind that it is
>> > ok from an infrastructure POV. As community events grow (and hopefully
>> > budget with it), I'd even propose we try and share burden of cost in
>> > that direction in the future.
>> >
>> > On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 15:49, Austin Bennett
>> > <whatwouldaustindo@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks, Julian,
>> >
>> > Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people
>> > interested
>> > in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the
>> communication
>> > platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to
>> > expand
>> > the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly
>> > tradeoffs.
>> >
>> > Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation
>> > to use
>> > seems a separate discussion.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Austin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <julianfoad@apache.org
>> > <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
>> > > [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for
>> this
>> > > sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other
>> > systems.
>> > > In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other
>> > contenders like
>> > > XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by
>> > organisations
>> > > from Mozilla to universities and governments.
>> > >
>> > > It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
>> > > presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix
>> > devs do
>> > > it and wrote a blog post describing how:
>> > > https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
>> > >
>> > > Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
>> > > proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would
>> > in fact
>> > > be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching
>> this
>> > > space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak,
>> > and now
>> > > I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global
>> > need for
>> > > such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
>> > >
>> > > I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their
>> > own Matrix
>> > > server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of
>> > organization. I
>> > > run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
>> > > single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge),
>> > all my
>> > > WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
>> > > diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
>> > >
>> > > I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
>> > > contacts.
>> > >
>> > > - Julian
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > See:
>> > >
>> > > * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
>> > >
>> > > * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see
>> above
>> > >
>> > > * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an
>> > introduction to
>> > > the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like
>> > how Redhat
>> > > is to Linux)
>> > >
>> > > * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about
>> big
>> > > government deployments of Matrix
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>> > <ma...@community.apache.org>
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>> > <ma...@community.apache.org>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Austin Bennett <wh...@gmail.com>.
Hi All,
My intent would be to use this ASF Resource for communication of potential
newcomers to the Beam community (and with the hope that they become
involved with the foundation overall), looking to state that clearly.
Cost is a reasonable argument -- but I need to question whether the
financial costs outweigh the potential benefits, and therefore looking to
make explicit the purpose of the Slack Community, if this is something we
are going to be told not to do.
As a thought exercise/perspective; please bear with the following -->
* I have been in the ASF Slack long before I was a committer on the project.
* There is lots of activity in the ASF Slack Beam channels from
non-committers (and a way to identify future committers, based on positive
interactions with the community).
* I lead workshops (in most cases personal free/volunteer time) on getting
involved with contributing to OpenSource/ASF/Beam, and I certainly point
all attendees to the training to ASF Slack channel (as well as mailing
lists) -- should I not be doing that?
One potentially useful, but not great analogy would be traditional funnels
and conversion rates -- would like to build a funnel and community for Beam
(and serving ASF more generally), people that are interested/curious, some
of which will convert to maintaining activity -> learning more -> chatting
with others -> contributing docs/use-case/bugs/code -> becoming committers
-> etc... In that light, you can see how there are benefits for this to be
the start of an interaction and journey for people to get involved with the
foundation? That is at least my goal/motivation.
How do we distinguish users in this case (say anyone I point to the Slack
channels as a way to start following a community and getting involved in
discussions), from a broader conference attendee (in the cases, such
workshops are often at conferences)? Why would we exclude people/purpose?
Do my aims make sense? Is growing the ASF community in this manner not
supported by the infrastructure? If Slack is not a useful common tool that
we can point anyone to, should we be using it? Or, at least can someone
provide clear bounds on what is OK and not OK to be doing with it?
Proposal: we use this slack channel for the BeamSummit, and learn how it
goes.
If concerned about persisting user accounts, perhaps can we configure an
alternate link (if given permissions, I am willing) and we can track the
signups through that link [ s.apache.org/
<http://s.apache.org/slack-invite>temp-slack-invite
] - and auto-expire/delete their account after 30 days (or some interval)
without some additional requirements to keep them as users. It seems the
fear is around accounts getting created that are not used and costing
money. I suspect (a) there are alot of inactive accounts, and (b) that we
should be supporting the growing community in the same place.
Thanks for bearing with this long message.
Austin
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:15 PM Chris Thistlethwaite <ch...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Infra discussed this at our last team meeting. Currently the way Slack
> invites work via s.apache.org/slack-invite sends out an invite to become
> a full member of the-asf.slack.com. You can read a bit more about this
> at https://infra.apache.org/slack.html. The issue with that is members
> (Slack Members NOT ASF Members) then cost money for the ASF, which will
> be hard to track and forecast if every project starts using the-asf
> workspace as a conference meet-up area. There's not an official way to
> invite someone as a Single Channel Guest to Slack without their email
> address. There's no URL they can visit to get an invite. There are
> products out there that use a deprecated Slack API, but they aren't well
> maintained and Slack can turn off the API whenever they want. So as of
> this writing, we're recommending against using the-asf.slack.com for
> mass conference invites.
>
> We tried a workaround of sharing a channel with apachecon.slack.com,
> however you can't share a channel from a paid Slack instance to a free
> instance.
>
> I'm just throwing out ideas, but if you had a list of email addresses
> for attendees, you could bulk invite everyone as a Single Channel Guest
> (they'd just have access to #beam). Then they get the added bonus of
> being apart of the official Slack instance, can talk in the #beam
> channel as needed and if they become a committer to Beam then they could
> be "upgraded" to a full member account. Again, I'm just throwing it out
> there as no one has ever really talked about the process/workflow of a
> large group being dumped into Slack.
>
> -Chris T.
> #asfinfra
>
> On 7/18/20 8:01 AM, Matthias Baetens wrote:
> > Thanks for bringing this to the ComDev mailing list, Austin. As part
> > of the Beam Summit org team, I am in strong favour of making this part
> > of the ASF Slack with the goal of growing the Beam community there and
> > expose people to the ASF overall, over splintering the community over
> > different Slack channels - this with the assumption in mind that it is
> > ok from an infrastructure POV. As community events grow (and hopefully
> > budget with it), I'd even propose we try and share burden of cost in
> > that direction in the future.
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 15:49, Austin Bennett
> > <whatwouldaustindo@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Julian,
> >
> > Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people
> > interested
> > in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the
> communication
> > platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to
> > expand
> > the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly
> > tradeoffs.
> >
> > Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation
> > to use
> > seems a separate discussion.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Austin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <julianfoad@apache.org
> > <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
> >
> > > On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
> > > [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for
> this
> > > sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other
> > systems.
> > > In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other
> > contenders like
> > > XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by
> > organisations
> > > from Mozilla to universities and governments.
> > >
> > > It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
> > > presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix
> > devs do
> > > it and wrote a blog post describing how:
> > > https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
> > >
> > > Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
> > > proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would
> > in fact
> > > be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching
> this
> > > space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak,
> > and now
> > > I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global
> > need for
> > > such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
> > >
> > > I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their
> > own Matrix
> > > server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of
> > organization. I
> > > run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
> > > single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge),
> > all my
> > > WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
> > > diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
> > >
> > > I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
> > > contacts.
> > >
> > > - Julian
> > >
> > >
> > > See:
> > >
> > > * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
> > >
> > > * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see
> above
> > >
> > > * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an
> > introduction to
> > > the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like
> > how Redhat
> > > is to Linux)
> > >
> > > * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about
> big
> > > government deployments of Matrix
> > >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > <ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > <ma...@community.apache.org>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Chris Thistlethwaite <ch...@apache.org>.
Infra discussed this at our last team meeting. Currently the way Slack
invites work via s.apache.org/slack-invite sends out an invite to become
a full member of the-asf.slack.com. You can read a bit more about this
at https://infra.apache.org/slack.html. The issue with that is members
(Slack Members NOT ASF Members) then cost money for the ASF, which will
be hard to track and forecast if every project starts using the-asf
workspace as a conference meet-up area. There's not an official way to
invite someone as a Single Channel Guest to Slack without their email
address. There's no URL they can visit to get an invite. There are
products out there that use a deprecated Slack API, but they aren't well
maintained and Slack can turn off the API whenever they want. So as of
this writing, we're recommending against using the-asf.slack.com for
mass conference invites.
We tried a workaround of sharing a channel with apachecon.slack.com,
however you can't share a channel from a paid Slack instance to a free
instance.
I'm just throwing out ideas, but if you had a list of email addresses
for attendees, you could bulk invite everyone as a Single Channel Guest
(they'd just have access to #beam). Then they get the added bonus of
being apart of the official Slack instance, can talk in the #beam
channel as needed and if they become a committer to Beam then they could
be "upgraded" to a full member account. Again, I'm just throwing it out
there as no one has ever really talked about the process/workflow of a
large group being dumped into Slack.
-Chris T.
#asfinfra
On 7/18/20 8:01 AM, Matthias Baetens wrote:
> Thanks for bringing this to the ComDev mailing list, Austin. As part
> of the Beam Summit org team, I am in strong favour of making this part
> of the ASF Slack with the goal of growing the Beam community there and
> expose people to the ASF overall, over splintering the community over
> different Slack channels - this with the assumption in mind that it is
> ok from an infrastructure POV. As community events grow (and hopefully
> budget with it), I'd even propose we try and share burden of cost in
> that direction in the future.
>
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 15:49, Austin Bennett
> <whatwouldaustindo@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Julian,
>
> Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people
> interested
> in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the communication
> platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to
> expand
> the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly
> tradeoffs.
>
> Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation
> to use
> seems a separate discussion.
>
> Cheers,
> Austin
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <julianfoad@apache.org
> <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
>
> > On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
> > [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
> > sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other
> systems.
> > In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other
> contenders like
> > XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by
> organisations
> > from Mozilla to universities and governments.
> >
> > It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
> > presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix
> devs do
> > it and wrote a blog post describing how:
> > https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
> >
> > Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
> > proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would
> in fact
> > be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
> > space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak,
> and now
> > I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global
> need for
> > such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
> >
> > I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their
> own Matrix
> > server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of
> organization. I
> > run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
> > single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge),
> all my
> > WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
> > diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
> >
> > I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
> > contacts.
> >
> > - Julian
> >
> >
> > See:
> >
> > * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
> >
> > * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
> >
> > * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an
> introduction to
> > the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like
> how Redhat
> > is to Linux)
> >
> > * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
> > government deployments of Matrix
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> <ma...@community.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> <ma...@community.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Matthias Baetens <ba...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for bringing this to the ComDev mailing list, Austin. As part of the
Beam Summit org team, I am in strong favour of making this part of the ASF
Slack with the goal of growing the Beam community there and expose people
to the ASF overall, over splintering the community over different Slack
channels - this with the assumption in mind that it is ok from an
infrastructure POV. As community events grow (and hopefully budget with
it), I'd even propose we try and share burden of cost in that direction in
the future.
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 15:49, Austin Bennett <wh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thanks, Julian,
>
> Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people interested
> in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the communication
> platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to expand
> the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly tradeoffs.
>
> Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation to use
> seems a separate discussion.
>
> Cheers,
> Austin
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
> > [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
> > sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other systems.
> > In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
> > XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
> > from Mozilla to universities and governments.
> >
> > It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
> > presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix devs do
> > it and wrote a blog post describing how:
> > https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
> >
> > Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
> > proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in fact
> > be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
> > space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and now
> > I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
> > such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
> >
> > I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own Matrix
> > server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization. I
> > run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
> > single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
> > WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
> > diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
> >
> > I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
> > contacts.
> >
> > - Julian
> >
> >
> > See:
> >
> > * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
> >
> > * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
> >
> > * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
> > the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how Redhat
> > is to Linux)
> >
> > * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
> > government deployments of Matrix
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Austin Bennett <wh...@gmail.com>.
Thanks, Julian,
Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people interested
in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the communication
platform used by the wider asf community. I figure it is ideal to expand
the overall Apache tent/community. Though there are certainly tradeoffs.
Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation to use
seems a separate discussion.
Cheers,
Austin
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad <ju...@apache.org> wrote:
> On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
> [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
> sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other systems.
> In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
> XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
> from Mozilla to universities and governments.
>
> It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
> presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix devs do
> it and wrote a blog post describing how:
> https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
>
> Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
> proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in fact
> be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
> space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and now
> I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
> such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
>
> I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own Matrix
> server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization. I
> run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
> single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
> WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
> diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
>
> I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
> contacts.
>
> - Julian
>
>
> See:
>
> * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
>
> * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
>
> * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
> the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how Redhat
> is to Linux)
>
> * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
> government deployments of Matrix
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
While I don't disagree, nobody on this list is in a position to make a
decision on that. If this is something you feel strongly about, perhaps
raise it to our Infrastructure team?
On 7/16/20 12:03 PM, Julian Foad wrote:
> On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
> [Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
> sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other systems.
> In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
> XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
> from Mozilla to universities and governments.
>
> It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
> presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix devs do
> it and wrote a blog post describing how:
> https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
>
> Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
> proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in fact
> be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
> space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and now
> I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
> such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
>
> I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own Matrix
> server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization. I
> run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
> single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
> WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
> diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
>
> I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
> contacts.
>
> - Julian
>
>
> See:
>
> * https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
>
> * https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
>
> * https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
> the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how Redhat
> is to Linux)
>
> * https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
> government deployments of Matrix
>
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>
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
@rbowen
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Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Julian Foad <ju...@apache.org>.
On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
[Matrix], the Open federated standard system. It's perfect for this
sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other systems.
In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
from Mozilla to universities and governments.
It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
presentation side through Jitsi, of online events. The matrix devs do
it and wrote a blog post describing how:
https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events
Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in fact
be paying for it if it's "free as in beer". I've been watching this
space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and now
I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.
I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own Matrix
server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization. I
run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.
I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific contacts.
- Julian
See:
* https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix
* https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above
* https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how Redhat
is to Linux)
* https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
government deployments of Matrix
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Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Austin Bennett <wh...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jarek, Great to hear -- my hope would be that Beam intends to
use/grow/play well with the overall Apache Community. We don't currently
have our own Slack community, though that is also a possibility to setup.
I am imagining it is better if those users are in ASF and therefore might
attend to and collaborate with/contribute to other projects as well.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:53 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
> Just a comment from the Apache Airflow Summit that is half-way through.
>
> I think by not using Beam slack you are missing some opportunity to bring
> people in your slack :). I just got an email from Slack that we got 562 new
> members added last week :).
>
> J.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 7:26 PM Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 7/13/20 1:03 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:
> > > Hi Apache CommDev,
> > >
> > > Unsure if this is the right place, but starting here...
> > >
> > > Working on building Apache Beam's community, and have a forthcoming
> > > https://beamsummit.org
> > >
> > > The event is virtual, and we would like to invite attendees
> (potentially
> > a
> > > few hundred) to use some sort of messaging and likely slack to interact
> > > with eachother/speakers/etc during the event.
> > >
> > > We had thought ASF slack would be great, as we have many #beam
> channels,
> > > and also with people signing up might get additional exposure to
> > additional
> > > projects and the foundation overall. Is there any issues in us using
> > > https://s.apache.org/slack-invite <http://s.apache.org/slack-invite>
> for
> > > this purpose (we'd then create some #beamsummit... channels, etc)?
> >
> > the-asf.slack.com is the official Apache Slack instance, and is owned by
> > Infra. I *think* they'd be ok with this, but it might be best to ask
> them.
> >
> > I also have to make my obligatory remark that I really wish you would
> > have considered incorporating your content into ApacheCon again this
> year.
> >
> > --
> > Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
> > @rbowen
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> --
> +48 660 796 129
>
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com>.
Just a comment from the Apache Airflow Summit that is half-way through.
I think by not using Beam slack you are missing some opportunity to bring
people in your slack :). I just got an email from Slack that we got 562 new
members added last week :).
J.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 7:26 PM Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 7/13/20 1:03 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:
> > Hi Apache CommDev,
> >
> > Unsure if this is the right place, but starting here...
> >
> > Working on building Apache Beam's community, and have a forthcoming
> > https://beamsummit.org
> >
> > The event is virtual, and we would like to invite attendees (potentially
> a
> > few hundred) to use some sort of messaging and likely slack to interact
> > with eachother/speakers/etc during the event.
> >
> > We had thought ASF slack would be great, as we have many #beam channels,
> > and also with people signing up might get additional exposure to
> additional
> > projects and the foundation overall. Is there any issues in us using
> > https://s.apache.org/slack-invite <http://s.apache.org/slack-invite> for
> > this purpose (we'd then create some #beamsummit... channels, etc)?
>
> the-asf.slack.com is the official Apache Slack instance, and is owned by
> Infra. I *think* they'd be ok with this, but it might be best to ask them.
>
> I also have to make my obligatory remark that I really wish you would
> have considered incorporating your content into ApacheCon again this year.
>
> --
> Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
> @rbowen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
--
+48 660 796 129
Re: ASF Slack for community?
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 7/13/20 1:03 PM, Austin Bennett wrote:
> Hi Apache CommDev,
>
> Unsure if this is the right place, but starting here...
>
> Working on building Apache Beam's community, and have a forthcoming
> https://beamsummit.org
>
> The event is virtual, and we would like to invite attendees (potentially a
> few hundred) to use some sort of messaging and likely slack to interact
> with eachother/speakers/etc during the event.
>
> We had thought ASF slack would be great, as we have many #beam channels,
> and also with people signing up might get additional exposure to additional
> projects and the foundation overall. Is there any issues in us using
> https://s.apache.org/slack-invite <http://s.apache.org/slack-invite> for
> this purpose (we'd then create some #beamsummit... channels, etc)?
the-asf.slack.com is the official Apache Slack instance, and is owned by
Infra. I *think* they'd be ok with this, but it might be best to ask them.
I also have to make my obligatory remark that I really wish you would
have considered incorporating your content into ApacheCon again this year.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
@rbowen
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