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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> on 2012/12/02 19:11:34 UTC
Re: Sidebar
On 30/11/2012 Andre Fischer wrote:
> I will be working on the implementation of the
> sidebar. In the hope of motivating others (you) to join me, I have
> created a wiki page that gives a first and rough outline of the work
> that has to be done and the API and code that already exists and
> (hopefully) can be reused or adapted:
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar
Thanks Andre, it seems that tasks are still very broad, so I guess that
this call is mainly aimed at existing or full-time developers, but if
you identify small self-contained tasks where new developers could be
involved please advertise them, since they might be useful in a future
call for developers or for FOSDEM.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Sidebar
Posted by Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>.
On 05.12.2012 01:48, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 04.12.2012 03:32, Dali Liu wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andre,
>>> I am planning to merger a extension to sidebar model, I would like to
>>> verify the implementation of the sidebar.
>>> Will I start from here:
>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Framework/Article/Tool_**Panels<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Framework/Article/Tool_Panels>
>>> ?
>>>
>> Hi Dali Liu,
>>
>> The sidebar is not yet finished. Actually we just started designing the
>> API.
>> Eventually we will probably use the functionality described in the "Tool
>> Panels" wiki page, but there will be some additional interfaces and
>> configuration entries. At the end of this week I can probably say more.
>>
>> -Andre
>>
>>
>>
>>> 2012/12/3 Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> On 02.12.2012 19:11, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>> On 30/11/2012 Andre Fischer wrote:
>>>>> I will be working on the implementation of the
>>>>>> sidebar. In the hope of motivating others (you) to join me, I have
>>>>>> created a wiki page that gives a first and rough outline of the work
>>>>>> that has to be done and the API and code that already exists and
>>>>>> (hopefully) can be reused or adapted:
>>>>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/****wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar>
>>>>>> <http://wiki.**openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>
>>>>>> Thanks Andre, it seems that tasks are still very broad, so I guess
>>>>> that
>>>>> this call is mainly aimed at existing or full-time developers, but if
>>>>> you
>>>>> identify small self-contained tasks where new developers could be
>>>>> involved
>>>>> please advertise them, since they might be useful in a future call for
>>>>> developers or for FOSDEM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good idea, I will do that. I just wanted to make sure that nobody
>>>> feels
>>>> not invited.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I have activated the existing but unfinished sidebar
>>>> implementation that was discontinued shortly before OpenOffice came to
>>>> Apache. You can find developer builds for Linux, Mac and Windows.
>>>> Please
>>>> see the "Status" section on http://wiki.openoffice.org/****wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar>
>>>> <http://wiki.**openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>
>>>>> (**near the top). There you can also see screenshots of that sidebar
>>>> implementation.
>>>>
>>>> Please do not use these developer snapshots for anything other than
>>>> analysis of the sidebar. There appear to be some serious bugs. They are
>>>> meant as living demos of an unfinished feature.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Andre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Andrea.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> Andrea,
> Thanks for sharing this initial snapshot. While it appears that we can
> inherit some code, it also appears that there is some more work to be done.
>
> With regards to the user interface design, as seen in wiki, thanks for
> sharing the screenshots from Linus, Mac and Windows. Here are some initial
> thoughts:
>
> - The Linux and Mac implementation presents flat sidebar tab button, which
> aligns with our current design direction, which is good. We would need to
> adjust this design slightly to address an information design issue.
> Currently, the sidebar tab buttons are included in the content pane. In
> other words, the tab buttons appear to be associated with the active pane
> as they are all together in the same pane (area with white background). I'd
> prefer us to make the content pane and the sidebar tab buttons distinct, as
> seen in our current design direction. The contrast and clustering helps
> reinforce the association, and allows us to omit any tab bevels.
I absolutely agree. What you see is a) unfinished and b) designed about
two years ago.
>
> - I don't have access to the Linus and Mac builds. To better appreciate and
> understand the relationship of the sidebar to the whole workspace, could I
> ask you to update your screencaps to show the entire workspace (reduce
> window size is fine). I want to understand how Linus and Mac illustrate a
> selected command button. I want to ensure that our flat design, with button
> highlighting to indicate selection will scale and be consistent on all
> platforms.
I have updated the screenshots (maybe I should move them to one of the
UX pages?) I am not sure that they show now what you want.
There is now a screenshot of the whole Impress window (with the layout
button selected and the mouse over the table button, so that you can see
buttons in normal, selected and mouse over state).
I have added detail views of buttons in a toolbar so that you can
compare the mouse over look.
I also added toolbars of other applications on the three operating
systems. I have the impression that it is
a) hard to find applications that use toolbars (on Mac more than on
Linux more than on Windows)
b) there are hardly two applications that paint their UI elements the
same way. Surprisingly this seems to be true especially on Mac.
But this is entirely subjective and I did not invest much time and
looked only at a few applications.
> - The Windows UI includes a form of tab bevel, which in comparison to our
> flat sidebar tab button UI design direction, appears to be heavy, and only
> adds visual noise and view weight. This screen shot reinforces my interest
> in implementing our flat approach.
I agree. I am currently searching for the place where the buttons are
painted to find out whether we do that manually or use system controls.
-Andre
>
> All for now, keep sharing - this is great.
>
> Please post the higher context screen shots if possible.
>
> In the interim, I will continue to work on the detailed UI spec for the
> sidebar UI and interaction.
>
> Best regards,
> Kevin
>
Re: Sidebar
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04.12.2012 03:32, Dali Liu wrote:
>
>> Hi Andre,
>> I am planning to merger a extension to sidebar model, I would like to
>> verify the implementation of the sidebar.
>> Will I start from here:
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Framework/Article/Tool_**Panels<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Framework/Article/Tool_Panels>
>> ?
>>
> Hi Dali Liu,
>
> The sidebar is not yet finished. Actually we just started designing the
> API.
> Eventually we will probably use the functionality described in the "Tool
> Panels" wiki page, but there will be some additional interfaces and
> configuration entries. At the end of this week I can probably say more.
>
> -Andre
>
>
>
>> 2012/12/3 Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>
>>
>> On 02.12.2012 19:11, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>
>>> On 30/11/2012 Andre Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I will be working on the implementation of the
>>>>> sidebar. In the hope of motivating others (you) to join me, I have
>>>>> created a wiki page that gives a first and rough outline of the work
>>>>> that has to be done and the API and code that already exists and
>>>>> (hopefully) can be reused or adapted:
>>>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/****wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar>
>>>>> <http://wiki.**openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Andre, it seems that tasks are still very broad, so I guess
>>>> that
>>>> this call is mainly aimed at existing or full-time developers, but if
>>>> you
>>>> identify small self-contained tasks where new developers could be
>>>> involved
>>>> please advertise them, since they might be useful in a future call for
>>>> developers or for FOSDEM.
>>>>
>>>> Good idea, I will do that. I just wanted to make sure that nobody
>>> feels
>>> not invited.
>>>
>>> By the way, I have activated the existing but unfinished sidebar
>>> implementation that was discontinued shortly before OpenOffice came to
>>> Apache. You can find developer builds for Linux, Mac and Windows.
>>> Please
>>> see the "Status" section on http://wiki.openoffice.org/****wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar>
>>> <http://wiki.**openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>
>>> >(**near the top). There you can also see screenshots of that sidebar
>>> implementation.
>>>
>>> Please do not use these developer snapshots for anything other than
>>> analysis of the sidebar. There appear to be some serious bugs. They are
>>> meant as living demos of an unfinished feature.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andre
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>> Andrea.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> Andrea,
Thanks for sharing this initial snapshot. While it appears that we can
inherit some code, it also appears that there is some more work to be done.
With regards to the user interface design, as seen in wiki, thanks for
sharing the screenshots from Linus, Mac and Windows. Here are some initial
thoughts:
- The Linux and Mac implementation presents flat sidebar tab button, which
aligns with our current design direction, which is good. We would need to
adjust this design slightly to address an information design issue.
Currently, the sidebar tab buttons are included in the content pane. In
other words, the tab buttons appear to be associated with the active pane
as they are all together in the same pane (area with white background). I'd
prefer us to make the content pane and the sidebar tab buttons distinct, as
seen in our current design direction. The contrast and clustering helps
reinforce the association, and allows us to omit any tab bevels.
- I don't have access to the Linus and Mac builds. To better appreciate and
understand the relationship of the sidebar to the whole workspace, could I
ask you to update your screencaps to show the entire workspace (reduce
window size is fine). I want to understand how Linus and Mac illustrate a
selected command button. I want to ensure that our flat design, with button
highlighting to indicate selection will scale and be consistent on all
platforms.
- The Windows UI includes a form of tab bevel, which in comparison to our
flat sidebar tab button UI design direction, appears to be heavy, and only
adds visual noise and view weight. This screen shot reinforces my interest
in implementing our flat approach.
All for now, keep sharing - this is great.
Please post the higher context screen shots if possible.
In the interim, I will continue to work on the detailed UI spec for the
sidebar UI and interaction.
Best regards,
Kevin
Re: Sidebar
Posted by Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>.
On 04.12.2012 03:32, Dali Liu wrote:
> Hi Andre,
> I am planning to merger a extension to sidebar model, I would like to
> verify the implementation of the sidebar.
> Will I start from here:
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Framework/Article/Tool_Panels?
Hi Dali Liu,
The sidebar is not yet finished. Actually we just started designing the
API.
Eventually we will probably use the functionality described in the "Tool
Panels" wiki page, but there will be some additional interfaces and
configuration entries. At the end of this week I can probably say more.
-Andre
>
> 2012/12/3 Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>
>
>> On 02.12.2012 19:11, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/11/2012 Andre Fischer wrote:
>>>
>>>> I will be working on the implementation of the
>>>> sidebar. In the hope of motivating others (you) to join me, I have
>>>> created a wiki page that gives a first and rough outline of the work
>>>> that has to be done and the API and code that already exists and
>>>> (hopefully) can be reused or adapted:
>>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>
>>>>
>>> Thanks Andre, it seems that tasks are still very broad, so I guess that
>>> this call is mainly aimed at existing or full-time developers, but if you
>>> identify small self-contained tasks where new developers could be involved
>>> please advertise them, since they might be useful in a future call for
>>> developers or for FOSDEM.
>>>
>> Good idea, I will do that. I just wanted to make sure that nobody feels
>> not invited.
>>
>> By the way, I have activated the existing but unfinished sidebar
>> implementation that was discontinued shortly before OpenOffice came to
>> Apache. You can find developer builds for Linux, Mac and Windows. Please
>> see the "Status" section on http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>(near the top). There you can also see screenshots of that sidebar
>> implementation.
>>
>> Please do not use these developer snapshots for anything other than
>> analysis of the sidebar. There appear to be some serious bugs. They are
>> meant as living demos of an unfinished feature.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andre
>>
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea.
>>>
>>
Re: Sidebar
Posted by Dali Liu <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Andre,
I am planning to merger a extension to sidebar model, I would like to
verify the implementation of the sidebar.
Will I start from here:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Framework/Article/Tool_Panels?
2012/12/3 Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>
> On 02.12.2012 19:11, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>
>> On 30/11/2012 Andre Fischer wrote:
>>
>>> I will be working on the implementation of the
>>> sidebar. In the hope of motivating others (you) to join me, I have
>>> created a wiki page that gives a first and rough outline of the work
>>> that has to be done and the API and code that already exists and
>>> (hopefully) can be reused or adapted:
>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks Andre, it seems that tasks are still very broad, so I guess that
>> this call is mainly aimed at existing or full-time developers, but if you
>> identify small self-contained tasks where new developers could be involved
>> please advertise them, since they might be useful in a future call for
>> developers or for FOSDEM.
>>
>
> Good idea, I will do that. I just wanted to make sure that nobody feels
> not invited.
>
> By the way, I have activated the existing but unfinished sidebar
> implementation that was discontinued shortly before OpenOffice came to
> Apache. You can find developer builds for Linux, Mac and Windows. Please
> see the "Status" section on http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Sidebar<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar>(near the top). There you can also see screenshots of that sidebar
> implementation.
>
> Please do not use these developer snapshots for anything other than
> analysis of the sidebar. There appear to be some serious bugs. They are
> meant as living demos of an unfinished feature.
>
> Regards,
> Andre
>
>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
>
>
Re: Sidebar
Posted by Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>.
On 02.12.2012 19:11, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 30/11/2012 Andre Fischer wrote:
>> I will be working on the implementation of the
>> sidebar. In the hope of motivating others (you) to join me, I have
>> created a wiki page that gives a first and rough outline of the work
>> that has to be done and the API and code that already exists and
>> (hopefully) can be reused or adapted:
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar
>
> Thanks Andre, it seems that tasks are still very broad, so I guess
> that this call is mainly aimed at existing or full-time developers,
> but if you identify small self-contained tasks where new developers
> could be involved please advertise them, since they might be useful in
> a future call for developers or for FOSDEM.
Good idea, I will do that. I just wanted to make sure that nobody feels
not invited.
By the way, I have activated the existing but unfinished sidebar
implementation that was discontinued shortly before OpenOffice came to
Apache. You can find developer builds for Linux, Mac and Windows.
Please see the "Status" section on
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Sidebar (near the top). There you can
also see screenshots of that sidebar implementation.
Please do not use these developer snapshots for anything other than
analysis of the sidebar. There appear to be some serious bugs. They are
meant as living demos of an unfinished feature.
Regards,
Andre
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.