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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> on 2012/08/12 16:24:00 UTC
Becoming a committer
Yes, I do want that, but that's not what this email is about. Well it
is, but in a roundabout way :-)
All the documentation and comments I could find talk about WHAT you
have to do, but not HOW MUCH of that 'what'. And nothing tells you how
to go about making your desire to become a committer known. It is
probably impolite to ask straight out, but what else is there? Do the
current committer actively look for new committers? Do you have to be
nominated, and if so, by whom and how do you make your desire known to
that person?
In all, can someone in the know clarify "who you have to kill to
become a committer"?
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 8/12/2012 11:02 AM, Erik de Bruin wrote:
>> There is no checklist.
>>
>> There are no guidelines we can provide you.
> So, basically, it is an arbitrary process one has no control over and
> no insight in with regard to status or progress? I can imagine that
> puts off a lot of people who might otherwise have made valuable
> contributions :-(
Ideally you are submitting patches / making Changes to Apache Flex
because of one of these reasons:
1) You have run into a problem that you want/need fixed
2) You want Flex to succeed as an open source project.
Personally, I suspect most people will fall into item Number 1.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Sunday, August 12, 2012, Erik de Bruin wrote:
> > There is no checklist.
> >
> > There are no guidelines we can provide you.
>
> So, basically, it is an arbitrary process one has no control over and
> no insight in with regard to status or progress? I can imagine that
> puts off a lot of people who might otherwise have made valuable
> contributions :-(
Yes, because there is no checklist, or 'status'. That's just the way it is.
The PPMC are volunteers as well. And we don't keep track of every single
person that contributed to keep a 'score'. You get noticed by committing,
not by asking to become a committer and complaining about the process.
>
> > Just keep submitting patches and contributing, that's how it happens.
>
> Not really an inspiring and motivational process. I for one was really
> getting into the whole SDK installer app/badge thing, as I think
> having an easy way to distribute the SDK is vital for the success of
> the project. But the whole patch and wait routine is taking away much
> of my momentum, which degrades my ability to contribute as it slowly
> drains my motivation.
>
> EdB
Sorry you feel that way but you're not the only contributor that has to go
through the same process. It's called a process for a reason and you just
have to go through it in order to get noticed.
You don't have to patch and submit and wait. You can go on GitHub, make a
fork, make changes, ask for feedback and once it's ready submit.
Patience is a virtue.
-omar
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> There is no checklist.
>
> There are no guidelines we can provide you.
So, basically, it is an arbitrary process one has no control over and
no insight in with regard to status or progress? I can imagine that
puts off a lot of people who might otherwise have made valuable
contributions :-(
> Just keep submitting patches and contributing, that's how it happens.
Not really an inspiring and motivational process. I for one was really
getting into the whole SDK installer app/badge thing, as I think
having an easy way to distribute the SDK is vital for the success of
the project. But the whole patch and wait routine is taking away much
of my momentum, which degrades my ability to contribute as it slowly
drains my motivation.
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Sunday, August 12, 2012, Erik de Bruin wrote:
> >> In all, can someone in the know clarify "who you have to kill to
> >> become a committer"?
> >
> > It is up to the PPMC.
>
> Yes, that is how it is 'explained' in the documentation. But
> explaining WHO decides does not really answer the question: "how do I
> know if I'm ready to be considered, and, if not, how much of what does
> it take to be eligible for consideration?"
>
> To clarify: I, like many others (I imagine), have limited resources to
> donate to the project. Instead of hacking around patching patches and
> waiting for someone to get round to committing the code, I'd rather
> spend the little time I have coding, testing and submitting the result
> myself. I understand this is not a free for all and there is a process
> to the whole contributor -> committer road. But, having said that, I
> submit that some insight in the process and some transparency about
> the actual requirements will go a long way to keep us patchers
> patching along until "we get noticed by the PPMC"...
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
>
>
> P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
> personal record for days lived.
>
There is no checklist.
There are no guidelines we can provide you.
Just keep submitting patches and contributing, that's how it happens.
-omar
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:01 AM, Om <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...People who consistently contribute and are active on
> the mailing list will not go unnoticed....
Note that that requires PPMC members to actively look at who could be
invited as committers - a good time to look at that is when the PPMC
has to write a report for the ASF board, for exemple, but that's only
every three months. It would be nice if a few PPMC members can take on
the job of reviewing contributions regularly, to make sure no one is
forgotten.
-Bertrand
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Carol Frampton <cf...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> Some time in the not too distant future, before we exit incubation, I have
> heard there is the possibility that original committers who have
> "disappeared" or maybe never appeared will be removed from the committer
> list. I know there are some Adobe employees in this category.
I think graduation is a good time to do that. When we graduate we will
propose a resolution to the board. In that resolution we will list the
charter PMC members of the new project. At that time we can prune or
expand the list of existing PPMC members however we like.
Also, the board can change the resolution, including the list of
initial members, however they wish. They rarely do so.
Greg
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Carol Frampton <cf...@adobe.com>.
On 8/13/12 11 :49AM, "Guthmann, Scott" <sg...@on3solutions.com> wrote:
>> But, you did the right thing by asking your questions so that everyone
>>who wants to become a committer can understand the process a bit better
>>as well. Thanks for your contributions so far, and I expect nothing
>>less from you in the future :-)
>I agree with Om - Erik has been doing a good job. I don't think who is a
>committer, a commenter or a contributor is a time sensitive decision. A
>few months ago - Justin McLean was doing so much work as a commenter /
>contributor, you wouldn't have known he wasn't a committer. His devotion
>and time commitment was so impressive that he was invited and approved
>quickly because his devotion was so meaningful. He is a good role model
>for all of us.
>
>But the exchange between Erik & Om brings up a question for me. There are
>several people who are on the committer list who haven't commented,
>haven't contributed via this mailing list, haven't opened or closed a
>JIRA ticket, and probably haven't done much in several months for the
>Apache Flex project. Would the project be hurt if those who are no longer
>dedicated & available enough to participate be removed as committers? Is
>there a data security reason strong enough to remove their access? I know
>their reputations & the project would benefit with their participation -
>however, for some, there has been 6 months of silence. Half a year of no
>contribution / participation seems too long.
Some time in the not too distant future, before we exit incubation, I have
heard there is the possibility that original committers who have
"disappeared" or maybe never appeared will be removed from the committer
list. I know there are some Adobe employees in this category.
Carol
RE: Becoming a committer
Posted by "Guthmann, Scott" <sg...@on3solutions.com>.
> But, you did the right thing by asking your questions so that everyone who wants to become a committer can understand the process a bit better as well. Thanks for your contributions so far, and I expect nothing less from you in the future :-)
I agree with Om - Erik has been doing a good job. I don't think who is a committer, a commenter or a contributor is a time sensitive decision. A few months ago - Justin McLean was doing so much work as a commenter / contributor, you wouldn't have known he wasn't a committer. His devotion and time commitment was so impressive that he was invited and approved quickly because his devotion was so meaningful. He is a good role model for all of us.
But the exchange between Erik & Om brings up a question for me. There are several people who are on the committer list who haven't commented, haven't contributed via this mailing list, haven't opened or closed a JIRA ticket, and probably haven't done much in several months for the Apache Flex project. Would the project be hurt if those who are no longer dedicated & available enough to participate be removed as committers? Is there a data security reason strong enough to remove their access? I know their reputations & the project would benefit with their participation - however, for some, there has been 6 months of silence. Half a year of no contribution / participation seems too long.
Regards,
Scott
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Om <bi...@gmail.com>.
Erik,
You have been providing some very good patches and it is not being
ignored. I was in a very similar state as you a few months ago. The PPMC
did not ignore me. Please keep your trust in the PPMC and continue doing
what you are doing. People who consistently contribute and are active on
the mailing list will not go unnoticed.
I wish I could tell you that you need to provide 'X' number of patches to
be made a committer. But it is not as simple as that. The PPMC looks at
various other aspects such as the ability to follow rules, willingness to
follow agreed upon processes, etc. as well. Please remember that if/when
you become a committer, the same stringent scrutiny of potential committers
would be expected from you as well.
But, you did the right thing by asking your questions so that everyone who
wants to become a committer can understand the process a bit better as
well. Thanks for your contributions so far, and I expect nothing less from
you in the future :-)
Regards,
Om
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> Thank you, Jeff
>
> You've made this a lot clearer for me. I must say I don't agree with
> this process at all, but as most often it is probably better to work
> from inside the system if you want change it. I'll be a good boy from
> now on :-)
>
> On a side note: I don't work on the project because of self interest,
> other then if I can help make it succeed, I get to work with the SDK
> for hopefully many years, while if it doesn't...
>
> Have fun!
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
>
>
> P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
> personal record for days lived.
>
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
Thank you, Jeff
You've made this a lot clearer for me. I must say I don't agree with
this process at all, but as most often it is probably better to work
from inside the system if you want change it. I'll be a good boy from
now on :-)
On a side note: I don't work on the project because of self interest,
other then if I can help make it succeed, I get to work with the SDK
for hopefully many years, while if it doesn't...
Have fun!
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 8/12/2012 11:32 AM, Erik de Bruin wrote:
>> I guess in theory you don't know when you're ready to be considered. It is
>> completely subjective. You have to do enough work for a PPMC member to
>> notice and/or care. In this case the "work" will most likely be through
>> submitting patches [or other code] through JIRA.
> Wow. I was just about ready to drop it, in order to not completely
> ruin my changes of being noticed in a positive way, but... I have to
> "do enough work for a PPMC member"? Really? I work for the PPMC now?
No; I strongly recommend you only do work that you care about.
But, a PPMC member has to nominate you to become a committer; so if
your sole goal is to become a committer; then you'll have to do
something for a PPMC member to notice.
Or if you think you've done plenty; feel free to solicit me (I can't
speak for other a PPMC members) to point out your contributions.
When the guy I never heard of emailed me a single line email asking
that I nominate him to become a committer; I ignored it.
But, if someone emailed me with some details on why they think they
should be nomiated, such as "I've submitted pathces to these 5 bugs;
I've contributed this new code via Jira; and have created 15 new Jira
entries; 10 of them with patches included.." I'd be more likely to listen.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> As you can see, punctuation makes a world of a difference.
As I thought adding a smiley at the end of a statement did.
I was trying to drop end the argument with a little joke. I guess I
need to work on my "timing"
;-)
Patch Adams (the contributor formerly known as EdB)
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> > I guess in theory you don't know when you're ready to be considered.
> It is
> > completely subjective. You have to do enough work for a PPMC member to
> > notice and/or care. In this case the "work" will most likely be through
> > submitting patches [or other code] through JIRA.
>
> Wow. I was just about ready to drop it, in order to not completely
> ruin my changes of being noticed in a positive way, but... I have to
> "do enough work for a PPMC member"? Really? I work for the PPMC now?
>
> I hope you were either kidding or trying to get away with a quick
> reply, otherwise all I can say is: "wow!", bow my head to the new
> overlords and go write some more patches ;-)
>
> EdB
>
That is really taking a statement out of context.
The complete sentence Jeffry wrote was: "You have to do enough work for a
PPMC member to notice and/or care."
What Jeffry didn't write was: "You have to do enough work for a PPMC
member. To notice and/or care."
As you can see, punctuation makes a world of a difference.
-omar
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> I guess in theory you don't know when you're ready to be considered. It is
> completely subjective. You have to do enough work for a PPMC member to
> notice and/or care. In this case the "work" will most likely be through
> submitting patches [or other code] through JIRA.
Wow. I was just about ready to drop it, in order to not completely
ruin my changes of being noticed in a positive way, but... I have to
"do enough work for a PPMC member"? Really? I work for the PPMC now?
I hope you were either kidding or trying to get away with a quick
reply, otherwise all I can say is: "wow!", bow my head to the new
overlords and go write some more patches ;-)
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 8/12/2012 10:45 AM, Erik de Bruin wrote:
>>> In all, can someone in the know clarify "who you have to kill to
>>> become a committer"?
>> It is up to the PPMC.
> Yes, that is how it is 'explained' in the documentation. But
> explaining WHO decides does not really answer the question: "how do I
> know if I'm ready to be considered, and, if not, how much of what does
> it take to be eligible for consideration?"
I guess in theory you don't know when you're ready to be considered.
It is completely subjective. You have to do enough work for a PPMC
member to notice and/or care. In this case the "work" will most likely
be through submitting patches [or other code] through JIRA.
> To clarify: I, like many others (I imagine), have limited resources to
> donate to the project.
It is the same for all the PPMC members.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
>> In all, can someone in the know clarify "who you have to kill to
>> become a committer"?
>
> It is up to the PPMC.
Yes, that is how it is 'explained' in the documentation. But
explaining WHO decides does not really answer the question: "how do I
know if I'm ready to be considered, and, if not, how much of what does
it take to be eligible for consideration?"
To clarify: I, like many others (I imagine), have limited resources to
donate to the project. Instead of hacking around patching patches and
waiting for someone to get round to committing the code, I'd rather
spend the little time I have coding, testing and submitting the result
myself. I understand this is not a free for all and there is a process
to the whole contributor -> committer road. But, having said that, I
submit that some insight in the process and some transparency about
the actual requirements will go a long way to keep us patchers
patching along until "we get noticed by the PPMC"...
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: Becoming a committer
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Sunday, August 12, 2012, Erik de Bruin wrote:
> Yes, I do want that, but that's not what this email is about. Well it
> is, but in a roundabout way :-)
>
> All the documentation and comments I could find talk about WHAT you
> have to do, but not HOW MUCH of that 'what'. And nothing tells you how
> to go about making your desire to become a committer known. It is
> probably impolite to ask straight out, but what else is there? Do the
> current committer actively look for new committers? Do you have to be
> nominated, and if so, by whom and how do you make your desire known to
> that person?
>
> In all, can someone in the know clarify "who you have to kill to
> become a committer"?
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
>
>
> P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
> personal record for days lived.
>
It is up to the PPMC.
-s9tpepper@apache.org
Apache Flex PPMC