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Posted to users@cloudstack.apache.org by Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com> on 2012/10/13 01:36:38 UTC
What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
A little bit background:
Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very unhappy.
Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/) to response to the Gartner's report.
There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
Thanks.
-Clement
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com>.
I have to say, the OS folks seem to want to throw strones at CS at any opportunity
I spoke at an event this week and the guy before me (OS guy) just couldn't help himself in knocking CS
Maybe, in all seriousness, this is a "message" being sent out to them all from rack space, etc.
Kind regards
Giles
On 13 Oct 2012, at 12:23, "Alexey Zilber" <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks like the response by Mirantis is just as full of FUD. Grab your
> helmets, here comes the fallout!
>
> -Alex
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com>wrote:
>
>> A little bit background:
>>
>> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort
>> Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<
>> http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915>
>> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very
>> unhappy.
>>
>> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (
>> http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/)
>> to response to the Gartner's report.
>>
>> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog.
>> I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Clement
>>
>>
>>
ShapeBlue provides a range of strategic and technical consulting and implementation services to help IT Service Providers and Enterprises to build a true IaaS compute cloud. ShapeBlue’s expertise, combined with CloudStack technology, allows IT Service Providers and Enterprises to deliver true, utility based, IaaS to the customer or end-user.
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Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Alexey Zilber <al...@gmail.com>.
Looks like the response by Mirantis is just as full of FUD. Grab your
helmets, here comes the fallout!
-Alex
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com>wrote:
> A little bit background:
>
> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort
> Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<
> http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915>
> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very
> unhappy.
>
> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (
> http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/)
> to response to the Gartner's report.
>
> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog.
> I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Clement
>
>
>
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Alexey Zilber <al...@gmail.com>.
Looks like the response by Mirantis is just as full of FUD. Grab your
helmets, here comes the fallout!
-Alex
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com>wrote:
> A little bit background:
>
> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort
> Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<
> http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915>
> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very
> unhappy.
>
> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (
> http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/)
> to response to the Gartner's report.
>
> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog.
> I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Clement
>
>
>
Gartner review - a bunch of Monkeys throwing SHIT!
Posted by br...@v365.com.au.
!!WARNING!!
this email contains foul language and an honest
opinion. AKA have the balls to say what i think.
Every one involved
with CloudStack should probably take this bullshit 'opinion' from
gartner as what it is
B U L L S H I T!
were locked into every bloody
thing you don't want to be, (storage, network, hyper visor, even power
and rack space, etc) and have to keep paying and paying. it never stops.
so to have some relief to that with opensource like Ubuntu, Cloud-stack
etc That is where real innovation happens.
and yes FUCKING MICROSOFT
AND ALL THE OTHERS ARE BROKEN, windows never really improves its more BS
on the previous BS version. esxi5 has some new bells and whistles, but
essentially its the same ole BULLSHIT again. Now apple are on the shit
bandwagon with IPhone 5... Stupid shit throwing monkeys.
They are all
driven by some bunch of marketing monkeys, senior executive monkeys. who
throw shit at each other all day. (advertising) While the real people
who invent and create, get shoved in the back room or sacked, IE the
engineers are the real value.
OR
a group of shit throwing monkeys,
buys that shit lock stock and barrel (acquisition) and sacks every one,
well no just the engineers usually.
im a senior engineer who's worked
for IBM, HP etc for 20 years and ive seen it over and over again... some
ole cycle.
Goes like this...
1. some cleaver engineer monkey invents
something. wow a virtual fart! amazing!
2. some dumb ass manager steals
it and claims all the lime light because they are extroverted and love
that shit.
3. engineer get forgotten, like the fart.
4. company
marketing monkeys start throwing shit at customer saying look how
cleaver we are
pay us money for our shit...
5. shit sells like hot cakes
for a while.
6. then people realize its just... well... brown, smelly,
pile of shit.
7. then some other bunch of monkeys start with something
new. hey look at our shit its better!
8. so another bunch of monkeys
like the gartner group, paid by the 2nd bunch of monkeys say negative
shit about the 1st bunch of monkeys crap!
9. Other monkeys stop throwing
crap and then buy shit from other bunch of monkeys, yes there's crap
too.
10. Only to realize ...its just... well... brown, smelly, pile of
shit.
at the end there are alot of monkeys with lots of shit, and other
with lots of money. and a bunch of engineers with no job. and have to
come up with new smelly pile of shit, or some new shit.
either way can
we get over this stupid cycle of shit (he says / she says) and evolve
out of being a bunch of monkeys throwing shit for a while? and don't
even think about monkeys going to their other favorite pastime..........
masturbating...!!!
Open source is a chance to break the cycle. any one
else say something different, then hes throwing more shit.
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Ahmad Emneina <Ah...@citrix.com>.
On 10/12/12 4:53 PM, "Outback Dingo" <ou...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com>
>wrote:
>> A little bit background:
>>
>> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort
>>Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012
>>"<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915
>>> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community
>>>very unhappy.
>>
>> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog
>>(http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/)
>> to response to the Gartner's report.
>>
>> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the
>>blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Clement
>>
>>
>
>Seems their "censoring comments" Ive replied and its not showing.
>
It takes a while, but they do seem to be approving critical comments.
Vijay B. has an excellent response that posted.
--
Æ
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Ahmad Emneina <Ah...@citrix.com>.
On 10/12/12 4:53 PM, "Outback Dingo" <ou...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com>
>wrote:
>> A little bit background:
>>
>> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort
>>Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012
>>"<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915
>>> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community
>>>very unhappy.
>>
>> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog
>>(http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/)
>> to response to the Gartner's report.
>>
>> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the
>>blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Clement
>>
>>
>
>Seems their "censoring comments" Ive replied and its not showing.
>
It takes a while, but they do seem to be approving critical comments.
Vijay B. has an excellent response that posted.
--
Æ
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Outback Dingo <ou...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com> wrote:
> A little bit background:
>
> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very unhappy.
>
> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/) to response to the Gartner's report.
>
> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Clement
>
>
Seems their "censoring comments" Ive replied and its not showing.
RE: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Marcus Sorensen <sh...@gmail.com>.
Totally agree that the best response is to show a great cloudstack release.
I do sympathize with the guy though, because Gartner could do the same to
cloudstack. The reason they haven't is because cloudstack isn't in the
limelight like openstack is recently. Gartner apparently has a bunch of
uninformed, trigger happy CIOs asking Gartner if they should stop paying
for VMware.
Speaking with actions is best, but I did post a response to his response,
because I felt he missed the point on some things (namely context). Not
that it will get a lot of traction or hits, but it makes me feel better :)
http://learnitwithme.com
On Oct 13, 2012 12:39 PM, "Rohit Yadav" <ro...@citrix.com> wrote:
> Touché David! World's a big place for all the opensource IaaS projects and
> we can make CloudStack more audacious with some positive writings and blogs.
>
> From today HN top posts:
> http://zachholman.com/talk/product-is-the-byproduct
> "Worry about building the damn thing; worry less about the damn thing";
> start from slide 63 :)
>
> Looking forward to planet, and 4.0.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: David Nalley [david@gnsa.us]
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:41 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: cloudstack-users@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
>
> Hi folks:
>
> So a couple of comments.
> I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
> that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
> among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
> for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
> Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
>
> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
> the the following two things:
> 1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
> the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
> builds?)
> 2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
> why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
>
> To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
> to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
> blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
> your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>
> --David
>
RE: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com>.
Touché David! World's a big place for all the opensource IaaS projects and we can make CloudStack more audacious with some positive writings and blogs.
>From today HN top posts: http://zachholman.com/talk/product-is-the-byproduct
"Worry about building the damn thing; worry less about the damn thing"; start from slide 63 :)
Looking forward to planet, and 4.0.
Regards.
________________________________________
From: David Nalley [david@gnsa.us]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:41 PM
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: cloudstack-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Hi folks:
So a couple of comments.
I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
the the following two things:
1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
builds?)
2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
--David
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by "Kelceydamage@bbits" <ke...@bbits.ca>.
+1
I agree completely
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 13, 2012, at 10:11 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> So a couple of comments.
> I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
> that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
> among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
> for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
> Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
>
> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
> the the following two things:
> 1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
> the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
> builds?)
> 2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
> why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
>
> To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
> to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
> blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
> your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>
> --David
RE: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com>.
Touché David! World's a big place for all the opensource IaaS projects and we can make CloudStack more audacious with some positive writings and blogs.
>From today HN top posts: http://zachholman.com/talk/product-is-the-byproduct
"Worry about building the damn thing; worry less about the damn thing"; start from slide 63 :)
Looking forward to planet, and 4.0.
Regards.
________________________________________
From: David Nalley [david@gnsa.us]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:41 PM
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: cloudstack-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Hi folks:
So a couple of comments.
I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
the the following two things:
1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
builds?)
2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
--David
OpenStack Cloud - lets show the world how itsdone!?
Posted by br...@v365.com.au.
Hello,
yes, we don't need to accept and react to what other
"dicks" say, as they seem
to have their own agenda. Monkey see Monkey
do mentality. So if others are throwing crap, then lets all throw
crap???? Whhhaaattttt ??? ... is that a mature response.... think about
it perhaps for a few microseconds.... before you put finger to
keyboard!
Its really a sad endorsement on human civilization how
backward things are becoming
because of defamatory comments on face book
and twitter, or a commercial group like Gartner. Politics in
IT/Engineering.... Who would have though!!! LOL they can take their
politics and shove it!
The reaction is often anger and further
retaliatory angry comments, everyone gets embroiled on the bandwagon,
and it escalates/snowballs to personal attacks etc, to vent their anger
or points of view.
How many of them would say that to your face, or a
board of directors?
Lets all agree to ignore it and not react, use it
constructively to improve Cloudstack. In a word, be MATURE.
As a user
of cloud stack i can say this. When there is a problem, it gets fixed,
and alot faster than in traditional software dev houses, because its
your code, your own piece of something that makes a greater whole. You
and we the community are proud of that achievement, as its no small
feat!
Nothing worth building will get done in a day, and if we are all
united and strong, and don't get tempted to join the other Monkeys in
this world. then we can advance IT forward... god know it needs to move
on atm.
so be STRONG and be PROUD! CloudStack is growing up very
quickly!
Bruce.
On 14.10.2012 01:11, David Nalley wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> So a couple of comments.
> I appreciate the level of passion seen in
this thread - it tells me
> that people love CloudStack. That said, open
source projects competing
> among themselves is almost always fruitless.
The world is large enough
> for two, three, or more open source IaaS
projects. (Just like the
> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL;
Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
> Slackware, and others.) In short, this
project's goal is not to beat
> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful,
stable, community-led
> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source
project.
>
> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's
perfect
> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to
catch what
> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and
lets correct
> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our
time doing
> the the following two things:
> 1. Testing, fixing, and
documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
> the best IaaS platform
available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
> builds?)
> 2. Telling
the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
> why it's
better, or why it beats $foo project)
>
> To that end, John Kinsella
has been working with Apache Infrastructure
> to get an Apache
CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
> blogs, so watch
for updates on this front and consider aggregating
> your blog there,
but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>
> --David
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:36:18PM +0100, Noah Slater wrote:
> +1 to what David said. The best response to most FUD is to a) ignore it,
> and b) double down on our efforts to make CloudStack rock. Bring on new
> committers, add more features, ship more software.
+1 to this.
> If there is ever the need to clarify something, it should be done on these
> lists, to our users. We have very little to gain by clarifying other
> people's mistakes on blogs, or wherever. The Internet is a big place, and
> people are often wrong.
Not so sure on this.
The problem with going totally silent on other people's blogs and
restricting corrections to this list is that not everyone - even the
majority of our users - read these lists.
If you see a post somewhere that is inaccurate, it may be a good idea to
leave a polite comment that provides the correct information or refutes
any misinformation.
That doesn't mean engaging in a tit-for-tat campaign with folks who are
obviously trying to flame CloudStack. As Noah says, we "win" on that
front by producing a better project not by having the loudest FUD
machine.
We can't correct *every* mistake, but if you see something that's
obviously wrong or outdated, it may be a good idea to *politely* comment
and give the correct information.
> cf. http://xkcd.com/386/
I do so love that cartoon... I even bought a print. :-)
--
Joe Brockmeier
Twitter: @jzb
http://dissociatedpress.net/
RE: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com>.
On that note, OSCON featured a comparison by Oregon State Uni's Open Source Lab http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/schedule/detail/24376
Slides at http://www.slideshare.net/OReillyOSCON/comparing-open-source-private-cloud-platforms
Their lab focuses on our constituency: open source developers. The side by side comparison of CloudStack, OpenStack, Eucalyptus, and Google's Ganeti is refreshingly technical.
DL
-----Original Message-----
From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
Sent: 16 October 2012 12:36
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
+1 to what David said. The best response to most FUD is to a) ignore it,
and b) double down on our efforts to make CloudStack rock. Bring on new committers, add more features, ship more software.
If there is ever the need to clarify something, it should be done on these lists, to our users. We have very little to gain by clarifying other people's mistakes on blogs, or wherever. The Internet is a big place, and people are often wrong.
Me and a friend once humorously coined Ginsparg's Law:
"People being wrong is hardly a revelation."
cf. http://xkcd.com/386/
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 6:11 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> So a couple of comments.
> I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
> that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
> among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
> for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
> Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
>
> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
> the the following two things:
> 1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
> the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
> builds?)
> 2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
> why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
>
> To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
> to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
> blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
> your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>
> --David
>
--
NS
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
+1 to what David said. The best response to most FUD is to a) ignore it,
and b) double down on our efforts to make CloudStack rock. Bring on new
committers, add more features, ship more software.
If there is ever the need to clarify something, it should be done on these
lists, to our users. We have very little to gain by clarifying other
people's mistakes on blogs, or wherever. The Internet is a big place, and
people are often wrong.
Me and a friend once humorously coined Ginsparg's Law:
“People being wrong is hardly a revelation.”
cf. http://xkcd.com/386/
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 6:11 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> So a couple of comments.
> I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
> that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
> among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
> for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
> Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
>
> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
> the the following two things:
> 1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
> the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
> builds?)
> 2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
> why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
>
> To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
> to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
> blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
> your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>
> --David
>
--
NS
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com>.
David
I fully agree with all your points. IMO however, us cloudstack guys have been behaving with decorum, others seem not to have been
I do feel that there seems to be an agenda with the OS folks and I fear that is an agenda being promoted from the "top" of their community.
The problem is that this stuff sticks if it goes on without defence
Kind regards
Giles
On 13 Oct 2012, at 18:12, "David Nalley" <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> So a couple of comments.
> I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
> that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
> among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
> for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
> Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
>
> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
> the the following two things:
> 1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
> the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
> builds?)
> 2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
> why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
>
> To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
> to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
> blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
> your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>
> --David
>
ShapeBlue provides a range of strategic and technical consulting and implementation services to help IT Service Providers and Enterprises to build a true IaaS compute cloud. ShapeBlue’s expertise, combined with CloudStack technology, allows IT Service Providers and Enterprises to deliver true, utility based, IaaS to the customer or end-user.
________________________________
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Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Outback Dingo <ou...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
> Thank you David! You said what I am thinking.
>
> Wido
>
> Op 13 okt. 2012 om 19:11 heeft David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> het volgende geschreven:
>
>> Hi folks:
>>
>> So a couple of comments.
>> I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
>> that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
>> among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
>> for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
>> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
>> Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
>> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
>> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
>>
>> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
>> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
>> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
>> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
>> the the following two things:
>> 1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
>> the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
>> builds?)
>> 2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
>> why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
>>
>> To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
>> to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
>> blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
>> your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>>
>> --David
I just have to say while I agree with the proverbial be nice and
provide information, its not worth the fight, I refuse to let lies and
invalid assessments go unanswered. Yes, we all have a place, but that
place need not be diminished because of the completely misstated facts
and lies regarding the matter.
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>.
Thank you David! You said what I am thinking.
Wido
Op 13 okt. 2012 om 19:11 heeft David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> het volgende geschreven:
> Hi folks:
>
> So a couple of comments.
> I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
> that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
> among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
> for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
> world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
> Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
> OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
> Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
>
> When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
> acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
> they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
> them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
> the the following two things:
> 1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
> the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
> builds?)
> 2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
> why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
>
> To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
> to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
> blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
> your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
>
> --David
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
Hi folks:
So a couple of comments.
I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
the the following two things:
1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
builds?)
2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
--David
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by Outback Dingo <ou...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Clement Chen <cl...@citrix.com> wrote:
> A little bit background:
>
> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very unhappy.
>
> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/) to response to the Gartner's report.
>
> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Clement
>
>
Seems their "censoring comments" Ive replied and its not showing.
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by "Kelceydamage@bbits" <ke...@bbits.ca>.
Pretty scary FUD below from that article:
"Don’t consider CloudStack. It will soon die. True, it is getting some traction in the enterprise because Citrix is pushing it, using its enterprise sales muscle–plus it has a pretty UI. But the truth is that OpenStack has already surpassed CloudStack feature-wise. More importantly – hype or no hype – RedHat, Canonical and SUSE chose to align with OpenStack over CloudStack. Because of that, CloudStack only runs on Ubuntu 10.04 host OS, which is 3 years old and doesn’t have driver support for some of the newer hardware. As time passes, this will only get worse."
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 13, 2012, at 1:57 AM, sebgoa <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO, the best answer to this is to make a clean release, thoroughly tested like we are doing now.
>
> If I am customer and read this very angry blog, I am not very inclined to do business with them.
>
> -Sebastien
>
> On Oct 13, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Clement Chen wrote:
>
>> A little bit background:
>>
>> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very unhappy.
>>
>> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/) to response to the Gartner's report.
>>
>> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Clement
>>
>>
>
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by sebgoa <ru...@gmail.com>.
IMHO, the best answer to this is to make a clean release, thoroughly tested like we are doing now.
If I am customer and read this very angry blog, I am not very inclined to do business with them.
-Sebastien
On Oct 13, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Clement Chen wrote:
> A little bit background:
>
> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very unhappy.
>
> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/) to response to the Gartner's report.
>
> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Clement
>
>
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
Hi folks:
So a couple of comments.
I appreciate the level of passion seen in this thread - it tells me
that people love CloudStack. That said, open source projects competing
among themselves is almost always fruitless. The world is large enough
for two, three, or more open source IaaS projects. (Just like the
world is big enough for PostgreSQL and MySQL; Red Hat, Ubuntu, SLES,
Slackware, and others.) In short, this project's goal is not to beat
OpenStack. The goal is to be a useful, stable, community-led
Infrastructure-as-a-Service open source project.
When you see articles that contain misinformation, it's perfect
acceptable to provide corrections. It's also important to catch what
they see as legitimate defects - file those as bugs, and lets correct
them. Far more valuable though, IMO, is that we spend our time doing
the the following two things:
1. Testing, fixing, and documenting Apache CloudStack so that it is
the best IaaS platform available. (Have you tested the latest 4.0.0 RC
builds?)
2. Telling the story of how/why we use CloudStack (notice I didn't say
why it's better, or why it beats $foo project)
To that end, John Kinsella has been working with Apache Infrastructure
to get an Apache CloudStack planet setup where we can aggregate such
blogs, so watch for updates on this front and consider aggregating
your blog there, but don't hesitate to start blogging now :)
--David
Re: What Gartner can't - or won't - tell you about OpenStack Cloud
Posted by sebgoa <ru...@gmail.com>.
IMHO, the best answer to this is to make a clean release, thoroughly tested like we are doing now.
If I am customer and read this very angry blog, I am not very inclined to do business with them.
-Sebastien
On Oct 13, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Clement Chen wrote:
> A little bit background:
>
> Gartner published a research report - "Don't Let OpenStack Hype Distort Your Selection of a Cloud Management Platform in 2012 "<http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=clientFriendlyUrl&id=2159915> on OpenStack in mid-September, which makes the OpenStack community very unhappy.
>
> Mirantis, a OpenStack company, wrote a blog (http://www.mirantis.com/blog/gartner-cannot-tell-about-openstack-cloud/) to response to the Gartner's report.
>
> There is a lot of FUD and complete untruths about CloudStack in the blog. I'd encourage everyone to read it and comment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Clement
>
>