You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@jena.apache.org by Ian Dickinson <ia...@epimorphics.com> on 2011/10/07 22:30:17 UTC
Jena 2.6.4 sources
It was pointed out to me off-list that Jena-2.6.4.zip on SourceForge
doesn't include the Jena source (only src-examples). Is there a reason?
Ian
--
____________________________________________________________
Ian Dickinson Epimorphics Ltd, Bristol, UK
mailto:ian@epimorphics.com http://www.epimorphics.com
cell: +44-7786-850536 landline: +44-1275-399069
------------------------------------------------------------
Epimorphics Ltd. is a limited company registered in England
(no. 7016688). Registered address: Court Lodge, 105 High St,
Portishead, Bristol BS20 6PT, UK
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
Andy Seaborne wrote:
> On 09/10/11 21:14, Ian Dickinson wrote:
>> On 08/10/11 14:44, Dave wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 22:22 +0100, Paolo wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wouldn't be easier to provide a JenaHelloWorld example for people to
>>>> checkout/download.
>>>>
>>>> Then the tutorial becomes:
>>>>
>>>> svn co
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena-example/trunk
>>>> jena-example
>>>> or download jena-example.zip from somewhere
>>>>
>>>> Eclipse> Import> Existing Project into Worskspace
>>>
>>> No it doesn't.
>>>
>>> The value of that tutorial is that it helps set up Jena for use in your
>>> Eclipse. So setting up Jena as a User Library, understanding how to
>>> create a project etc are important. Just downloading a prebuilt project
>>> wouldn't cut it.
>>>
>>>> I find tutorials with a lot of screen shots annoying if they have too
>>>> many screen shots. (And they are expensive to maintain for the editor)
>>>> If there is a short-cut, I prefer that than a long sequence of press
>>>> button here and there.
>>>
>>> With respect, you are not the target audience!
>> +1
>>
>> Paolo - I wrote that article in response to a series of requests
>> privately and on jena-dev for some "how on earth do I get started?"
>> requests from very inexperienced users. It is, by at least an order of
>> magnitude, the most popular item on my blob & website combined.
>>
>> I actually think we need a lot more hand-holding getting started
>> material. I'm actually quite keen to write some, just lack time atm!
>
> +1
>
> As a general point, semweb is currently raw technology. Making that
> technology easier to use is of more benefit to "making it happen" than
> more complexity.
Yes, easier to use is great.
I am a advocate of ease to use software, I think short "getting started
guides" are great to start with and I appreciate the recent efforts in
providing users with a better experience in getting started with Jena.
It's great when you can download, unzip, load your data and run!
Or, checkout, package, load your data and run.
However, I would argue scalability is also very important. When you put
something easy to use in the hands of people, they want to use it for
real and for their data. Sometimes their data is quite a lot (and dataset
sizes are growing all the time).
Monday morning, how do I load 1 billion triples|quads into TDB and serve
them with Fuseki? How much RAM do I need?
Ease of use here is necessary, but not sufficient. :-)
Paolo
>
> Andy
>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>.
On 09/10/11 21:14, Ian Dickinson wrote:
> On 08/10/11 14:44, Dave wrote:
>> On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 22:22 +0100, Paolo wrote:
>>
>>> Wouldn't be easier to provide a JenaHelloWorld example for people to
>>> checkout/download.
>>>
>>> Then the tutorial becomes:
>>>
>>> svn co
>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena-example/trunk
>>> jena-example
>>> or download jena-example.zip from somewhere
>>>
>>> Eclipse> Import> Existing Project into Worskspace
>>
>> No it doesn't.
>>
>> The value of that tutorial is that it helps set up Jena for use in your
>> Eclipse. So setting up Jena as a User Library, understanding how to
>> create a project etc are important. Just downloading a prebuilt project
>> wouldn't cut it.
>>
>>> I find tutorials with a lot of screen shots annoying if they have too
>>> many screen shots. (And they are expensive to maintain for the editor)
>>> If there is a short-cut, I prefer that than a long sequence of press
>>> button here and there.
>>
>> With respect, you are not the target audience!
> +1
>
> Paolo - I wrote that article in response to a series of requests
> privately and on jena-dev for some "how on earth do I get started?"
> requests from very inexperienced users. It is, by at least an order of
> magnitude, the most popular item on my blob & website combined.
>
> I actually think we need a lot more hand-holding getting started
> material. I'm actually quite keen to write some, just lack time atm!
+1
As a general point, semweb is currently raw technology. Making that
technology easier to use is of more benefit to "making it happen" than
more complexity.
Andy
>
> Ian
>
>
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Ian Dickinson <ia...@epimorphics.com>.
On 08/10/11 14:44, Dave wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 22:22 +0100, Paolo wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't be easier to provide a JenaHelloWorld example for people to
>> checkout/download.
>>
>> Then the tutorial becomes:
>>
>> svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena-example/trunk
>> jena-example
>> or download jena-example.zip from somewhere
>>
>> Eclipse> Import> Existing Project into Worskspace
>
> No it doesn't.
>
> The value of that tutorial is that it helps set up Jena for use in your
> Eclipse. So setting up Jena as a User Library, understanding how to
> create a project etc are important. Just downloading a prebuilt project
> wouldn't cut it.
>
>> I find tutorials with a lot of screen shots annoying if they have too
>> many screen shots. (And they are expensive to maintain for the editor)
>> If there is a short-cut, I prefer that than a long sequence of press
>> button here and there.
>
> With respect, you are not the target audience!
+1
Paolo - I wrote that article in response to a series of requests
privately and on jena-dev for some "how on earth do I get started?"
requests from very inexperienced users. It is, by at least an order of
magnitude, the most popular item on my blob & website combined.
I actually think we need a lot more hand-holding getting started
material. I'm actually quite keen to write some, just lack time atm!
Ian
--
____________________________________________________________
Ian Dickinson Epimorphics Ltd, Bristol, UK
mailto:ian@epimorphics.com http://www.epimorphics.com
cell: +44-7786-850536 landline: +44-1275-399069
------------------------------------------------------------
Epimorphics Ltd. is a limited company registered in England
(no. 7016688). Registered address: Court Lodge, 105 High St,
Portishead, Bristol BS20 6PT, UK
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Dave Reynolds <da...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 22:22 +0100, Paolo Castagna wrote:
> Wouldn't be easier to provide a JenaHelloWorld example for people to
> checkout/download.
>
> Then the tutorial becomes:
>
> svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena-example/trunk
> jena-example
> or download jena-example.zip from somewhere
>
> Eclipse > Import > Existing Project into Worskspace
No it doesn't.
The value of that tutorial is that it helps set up Jena for use in your
Eclipse. So setting up Jena as a User Library, understanding how to
create a project etc are important. Just downloading a prebuilt project
wouldn't cut it.
> I find tutorials with a lot of screen shots annoying if they have too
> many screen shots. (And they are expensive to maintain for the editor)
> If there is a short-cut, I prefer that than a long sequence of press
> button here and there.
With respect, you are not the target audience!
Re-read the user post which prompted me to respond with a link to Ian's
tutorial and ask yourself if that person needed a tutorial which is very
much step-by-step with pictures.
> Also, it's difficult to draw a line between Eclipse and Jena... is it
> a tutorial on Jena or on how to use Eclipse? ;-)
How to set up Jena for use in Eclipse for rather inexperienced users.
Dave
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>.
On 08/10/11 16:09, Paolo Castagna wrote:
> Andy Seaborne wrote:
...
>>
>> This applies to the other systems - the ones where I wrote the assembly
>> have the sources as jar at the top level including the test sources code.
>>
>> I'm not sure that is a good thing - if we're shipping the sources, we
>> might as well ship them unpacked.
>>
>> The test sources code is more confusing than helpful.
>>
>> So:
>> 1/ At least make them more obvious
>> Is placing at the top level enough?
>>
>> 2/ Pros and cons of shipping the unpacked tree instead.
>
> What other (or the majority) of Apache Java projects do?
Not all Apache Java projects have the same audiences or user base.
> That is probably what the majority of people (used to Apache projects)
> would expect. Not surprising users/developers is a way to avoid them
> asking for help. :-)
This is not an alternative - this is an "as well as". I think we should
deliver to as wide range of users as we can, and where someone wants to
do the process setup, and not focus on just one category at the
exclusion of others.
Setting up all the dev tools on Windows is not exactly trivial.
We have talked about having delivery as jar, as OGSi, as zip; and we
have the assembly for the zip.
Andy
>
> Paolo
>
>>
>> I see the download zip as for standalone use with minimal hassle. Not
>> everyone is a fully-skilled developer with familiarity of all the tools.
>>
>> Andy
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
Andy Seaborne wrote:
>
> On 07/10/11 22:22, Paolo Castagna wrote:
>> On 7 October 2011 22:03, Ian Dickinson<ia...@epimorphics.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Paolo,
>>>
>>> On 07/10/11 21:45, Paolo Castagna wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ian Dickinson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It was pointed out to me off-list that Jena-2.6.4.zip on SourceForge
>>>>> doesn't include the Jena source (only src-examples). Is there a
>>>>> reason?
>>>>
>>>> Ian,
>>>> have you checked yourself?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> The sources are in a .jar file in the ./lib-src directory.
>>>
>>> Well, I didn't notice them there. I did what was (to me) the obvious
>>> thing:
>>> 'find . -name \*.java'.
>>>
>>>> If a developer wants to work with Jena it's much better to do a
>>>> checkout:
>>>> svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena/trunk/
>>>> jena
>>>
>>> This was someone trying to follow my tutorial on using Jena with
>>> Eclipse,
>>> and getting stuck on the stage that says "now attach the sources to the
>>> library"
>>>
>>>> If someone wants the sources to inspect/browse them via their IDE a
>>>> .jar
>>>> file as the one in ./lib-src directory would do.
>>>
>>> I'll have to update my tutorial.
>>
>> It might change again! ;-)
>>
>> Wouldn't be easier to provide a JenaHelloWorld example for people to
>> checkout/download.
>>
>> Then the tutorial becomes:
>>
>> svn co
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena-example/trunk
>> jena-example
>> or download jena-example.zip from somewhere
>>
>> Eclipse> Import> Existing Project into Worskspace
>>
>> I find tutorials with a lot of screen shots annoying if they have too
>> many screen shots. (And they are expensive to maintain for the editor)
>> If there is a short-cut, I prefer that than a long sequence of press
>> button here and there.
>> Also, it's difficult to draw a line between Eclipse and Jena... is it
>> a tutorial on Jena or on how to use Eclipse? ;-)
>>
>> But, it's you writing the tutorial, so your call.
>
> This applies to the other systems - the ones where I wrote the assembly
> have the sources as jar at the top level including the test sources code.
>
> I'm not sure that is a good thing - if we're shipping the sources, we
> might as well ship them unpacked.
>
> The test sources code is more confusing than helpful.
>
> So:
> 1/ At least make them more obvious
> Is placing at the top level enough?
>
> 2/ Pros and cons of shipping the unpacked tree instead.
What other (or the majority) of Apache Java projects do?
That is probably what the majority of people (used to Apache projects)
would expect. Not surprising users/developers is a way to avoid them
asking for help. :-)
Paolo
>
> I see the download zip as for standalone use with minimal hassle. Not
> everyone is a fully-skilled developer with familiarity of all the tools.
>
> Andy
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>.
On 07/10/11 22:22, Paolo Castagna wrote:
> On 7 October 2011 22:03, Ian Dickinson<ia...@epimorphics.com> wrote:
>> Hi Paolo,
>>
>> On 07/10/11 21:45, Paolo Castagna wrote:
>>>
>>> Ian Dickinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It was pointed out to me off-list that Jena-2.6.4.zip on SourceForge
>>>> doesn't include the Jena source (only src-examples). Is there a reason?
>>>
>>> Ian,
>>> have you checked yourself?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> The sources are in a .jar file in the ./lib-src directory.
>>
>> Well, I didn't notice them there. I did what was (to me) the obvious thing:
>> 'find . -name \*.java'.
>>
>>> If a developer wants to work with Jena it's much better to do a checkout:
>>> svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena/trunk/
>>> jena
>>
>> This was someone trying to follow my tutorial on using Jena with Eclipse,
>> and getting stuck on the stage that says "now attach the sources to the
>> library"
>>
>>> If someone wants the sources to inspect/browse them via their IDE a .jar
>>> file as the one in ./lib-src directory would do.
>>
>> I'll have to update my tutorial.
>
> It might change again! ;-)
>
> Wouldn't be easier to provide a JenaHelloWorld example for people to
> checkout/download.
>
> Then the tutorial becomes:
>
> svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena-example/trunk
> jena-example
> or download jena-example.zip from somewhere
>
> Eclipse> Import> Existing Project into Worskspace
>
> I find tutorials with a lot of screen shots annoying if they have too
> many screen shots. (And they are expensive to maintain for the editor)
> If there is a short-cut, I prefer that than a long sequence of press
> button here and there.
> Also, it's difficult to draw a line between Eclipse and Jena... is it
> a tutorial on Jena or on how to use Eclipse? ;-)
>
> But, it's you writing the tutorial, so your call.
This applies to the other systems - the ones where I wrote the assembly
have the sources as jar at the top level including the test sources code.
I'm not sure that is a good thing - if we're shipping the sources, we
might as well ship them unpacked.
The test sources code is more confusing than helpful.
So:
1/ At least make them more obvious
Is placing at the top level enough?
2/ Pros and cons of shipping the unpacked tree instead.
I see the download zip as for standalone use with minimal hassle. Not
everyone is a fully-skilled developer with familiarity of all the tools.
Andy
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
On 7 October 2011 22:03, Ian Dickinson <ia...@epimorphics.com> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
>
> On 07/10/11 21:45, Paolo Castagna wrote:
>>
>> Ian Dickinson wrote:
>>>
>>> It was pointed out to me off-list that Jena-2.6.4.zip on SourceForge
>>> doesn't include the Jena source (only src-examples). Is there a reason?
>>
>> Ian,
>> have you checked yourself?
>
> Yes.
>
>> The sources are in a .jar file in the ./lib-src directory.
>
> Well, I didn't notice them there. I did what was (to me) the obvious thing:
> 'find . -name \*.java'.
>
>> If a developer wants to work with Jena it's much better to do a checkout:
>> svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena/trunk/
>> jena
>
> This was someone trying to follow my tutorial on using Jena with Eclipse,
> and getting stuck on the stage that says "now attach the sources to the
> library"
>
>> If someone wants the sources to inspect/browse them via their IDE a .jar
>> file as the one in ./lib-src directory would do.
>
> I'll have to update my tutorial.
It might change again! ;-)
Wouldn't be easier to provide a JenaHelloWorld example for people to
checkout/download.
Then the tutorial becomes:
svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena-example/trunk
jena-example
or download jena-example.zip from somewhere
Eclipse > Import > Existing Project into Worskspace
I find tutorials with a lot of screen shots annoying if they have too
many screen shots. (And they are expensive to maintain for the editor)
If there is a short-cut, I prefer that than a long sequence of press
button here and there.
Also, it's difficult to draw a line between Eclipse and Jena... is it
a tutorial on Jena or on how to use Eclipse? ;-)
But, it's you writing the tutorial, so your call.
Paolo
>
> Ian
>
>
> --
> ____________________________________________________________
> Ian Dickinson Epimorphics Ltd, Bristol, UK
> mailto:ian@epimorphics.com http://www.epimorphics.com
> cell: +44-7786-850536 landline: +44-1275-399069
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Epimorphics Ltd. is a limited company registered in England
> (no. 7016688). Registered address: Court Lodge, 105 High St,
> Portishead, Bristol BS20 6PT, UK
>
>
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Ian Dickinson <ia...@epimorphics.com>.
Hi Paolo,
On 07/10/11 21:45, Paolo Castagna wrote:
> Ian Dickinson wrote:
>> It was pointed out to me off-list that Jena-2.6.4.zip on SourceForge
>> doesn't include the Jena source (only src-examples). Is there a reason?
>
> Ian,
> have you checked yourself?
Yes.
> The sources are in a .jar file in the ./lib-src directory.
Well, I didn't notice them there. I did what was (to me) the obvious
thing: 'find . -name \*.java'.
> If a developer wants to work with Jena it's much better to do a checkout:
> svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena/trunk/
> jena
This was someone trying to follow my tutorial on using Jena with
Eclipse, and getting stuck on the stage that says "now attach the
sources to the library"
> If someone wants the sources to inspect/browse them via their IDE a .jar
> file as the one in ./lib-src directory would do.
I'll have to update my tutorial.
Ian
--
____________________________________________________________
Ian Dickinson Epimorphics Ltd, Bristol, UK
mailto:ian@epimorphics.com http://www.epimorphics.com
cell: +44-7786-850536 landline: +44-1275-399069
------------------------------------------------------------
Epimorphics Ltd. is a limited company registered in England
(no. 7016688). Registered address: Court Lodge, 105 High St,
Portishead, Bristol BS20 6PT, UK
Re: Jena 2.6.4 sources
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
Ian Dickinson wrote:
> It was pointed out to me off-list that Jena-2.6.4.zip on SourceForge
> doesn't include the Jena source (only src-examples). Is there a reason?
Ian,
have you checked yourself?
The sources are in a .jar file in the ./lib-src directory.
If a developer wants to work with Jena it's much better to do a checkout:
svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/jena/trunk/ jena
If someone wants the sources to inspect/browse them via their IDE a .jar file
as the one in ./lib-src directory would do.
Paolo
>
> Ian
>