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Posted to dev@velocity.apache.org by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> on 2007/10/26 20:38:59 UTC
[veltools] what next?
Hey Velocity folks (and especially VelocityTools folks),
VelocityTools 2 is working well and pretty much ready for another
alpha release, but it's not moving as quickly as i'd hoped. In the
meantime, VelocityTools 1.x has a few unreleased features and fixes
that are overdue for release. This has created something of an
impasse for me, and i'd love your input on a few things.
I have scratched my main personal itches for VelocityTools 2, but
there are still some things i was planning to have before we release
2.0, specifically updated docs, updated showcase examples, Tiles2
support and complete caching for VelocityViewTag. Updating the docs
and showcase examples are firm requirements for me, but the other two
features are not things i personally need. So, question one, what are
your thoughts and feelings on the use/importance of:
Tiles2 support?
caching for the VelocityViewTag?
something else i'm forgetting?
Now, in regards to VelocityTools 1.x. VelocityTools 2 is almost
completely compatible (though with much deprecation) with
VelocityTools 1.3. Second question: what should we do with the 1.x
series?
stop now and focus on getting 2.0 out and easing transition from 1.3 to 2.0?
release the trunk as 1.4 and be done with it?
release the trunk as 1.3.1 (since there's not a ton of new stuff) and
be done with it?
continue developing both 1.x and 2.x in parallel?
some other option?
Finally, my third question, will you help? Claude? Marino?
Christopher T.? Christopher S.? Will? I know you guys are out there!
:) And yeah, i know life is busy, and i've been charging madly ahead
with 2.0 development, making it hard to jump in. But, 2.0 has largely
gelled at this point, and i could REALLY use some help with filling
out tests and updating documentation for it (which are all fairly easy
for multiple devs to do in parallel). Also, i'm seriously lacking in
motivation to get the latest stuff in 1.x documented and released,
since i'm just using 2.0 now. If any of you guys are still invested
in 1.x and interested in seeing another release (or more), now is the
time to speak up and help out. I know i told someone months ago that
i'd rattle off another 1.x release, but i'm just not sure it's worth
it at this point. Sorry. :(
Thanks for reading! Please let me know your thoughts and seriously
consider helping out. Oh, and if you want to help out with
documentation for 2.0, i have actually written quite a bit, but it is
all plain text. I mostly need help either integrating it into the old
DVSL doc system or (if you're feeling ambitious) Henning's new
Maven-based doc system that Engine is using now.
peace,
nathan
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Re: [veltools] what next?
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@gmail.com>.
Wow, Nathan--
This is really quite an accomplishment to get to this point.
Quick thought on versioning. Practically speaking, it seems that the work
on 1.x is stalled with the main innovation happening with 2.0. So why not
release 1.3.1 with the current trunk, then encourage users to migrate
to 2.0for new features? (presuming an actual release of
2.0 is coming soon).
We're too small a community to focus on dual trunks, I think.
WILL
On 10/26/07, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/26/07, Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
> > Nathan,
> >
> > Nathan Bubna wrote:
> > > I have scratched my main personal itches for VelocityTools 2, but
> > > there are still some things i was planning to have before we release
> > > 2.0, specifically updated docs, updated showcase examples, Tiles2
> > > support and complete caching for VelocityViewTag.
> >
> > Has Struts 2 pretty much obviated the need for VelocityTools -- at least
> > the Struts-oriented parts? I haven't used S2, yet, but I'm reviewing a
> > book about it and it looks like it supports Velocity right out of the
> > box -- i.e. no Veltools required. Any thoughts?
>
> Yeah, no Struts-specific VelocityTools are needed for Struts 2; they
> make heavier use of custom directives then i would, but it seems to do
> the trick for them. Of course, many of the non-Struts VelocityTools
> we have would still come in handy.
>
> > > Finally, my third question, will you help? Christopher S.?
> >
> > Sure. Some of my previous patches have been accepted, so I will continue
> > to post them when I can help.
>
> :( sorry. please feel free to nag myself and the other committers! i
> can't speak for them, but i, at least, respond positively to nagging.
> i've appreciated all your help.
>
> > I never did come up with a unit testing
> > strategy, and was beaten to the punch :)
>
> no worries.
>
> > > Oh, and if you want to help out with documentation for 2.0, i have
> > > actually written quite a bit, but it is all plain text. I mostly
> > > need help either integrating it into the old DVSL doc system or (if
> > > you're feeling ambitious) Henning's new Maven-based doc system that
> > > Engine is using now.
> >
> > What about using a Wiki? Or, are those seen as too hard to maintain when
> > it comes to conflicting versions, etc.?
>
> Hadn't thought about that. unfortunately, we're just not set up for
> it. Versioning is definitely a problem, but so is pulling the docs
> out to ship with the releases. Our current wiki, to my knowledge, has
> no solutions for either.
>
> Still, i might as well start there. At least the content i've written
> so far would be public and those helping out can easily jump in.
>
> > -chris
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>
--
Forio Business Simulations
Will Glass-Husain
wglass@forio.com
www.forio.com
Re: [veltools] what next?
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 10/26/07, Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
> Nathan,
>
> Nathan Bubna wrote:
> > I have scratched my main personal itches for VelocityTools 2, but
> > there are still some things i was planning to have before we release
> > 2.0, specifically updated docs, updated showcase examples, Tiles2
> > support and complete caching for VelocityViewTag.
>
> Has Struts 2 pretty much obviated the need for VelocityTools -- at least
> the Struts-oriented parts? I haven't used S2, yet, but I'm reviewing a
> book about it and it looks like it supports Velocity right out of the
> box -- i.e. no Veltools required. Any thoughts?
Yeah, no Struts-specific VelocityTools are needed for Struts 2; they
make heavier use of custom directives then i would, but it seems to do
the trick for them. Of course, many of the non-Struts VelocityTools
we have would still come in handy.
> > Finally, my third question, will you help? Christopher S.?
>
> Sure. Some of my previous patches have been accepted, so I will continue
> to post them when I can help.
:( sorry. please feel free to nag myself and the other committers! i
can't speak for them, but i, at least, respond positively to nagging.
i've appreciated all your help.
> I never did come up with a unit testing
> strategy, and was beaten to the punch :)
no worries.
> > Oh, and if you want to help out with documentation for 2.0, i have
> > actually written quite a bit, but it is all plain text. I mostly
> > need help either integrating it into the old DVSL doc system or (if
> > you're feeling ambitious) Henning's new Maven-based doc system that
> > Engine is using now.
>
> What about using a Wiki? Or, are those seen as too hard to maintain when
> it comes to conflicting versions, etc.?
Hadn't thought about that. unfortunately, we're just not set up for
it. Versioning is definitely a problem, but so is pulling the docs
out to ship with the releases. Our current wiki, to my knowledge, has
no solutions for either.
Still, i might as well start there. At least the content i've written
so far would be public and those helping out can easily jump in.
> -chris
>
>
>
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Re: [veltools] what next?
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
Nathan,
Nathan Bubna wrote:
> I have scratched my main personal itches for VelocityTools 2, but
> there are still some things i was planning to have before we release
> 2.0, specifically updated docs, updated showcase examples, Tiles2
> support and complete caching for VelocityViewTag.
Has Struts 2 pretty much obviated the need for VelocityTools -- at least
the Struts-oriented parts? I haven't used S2, yet, but I'm reviewing a
book about it and it looks like it supports Velocity right out of the
box -- i.e. no Veltools required. Any thoughts?
> Finally, my third question, will you help? Christopher S.?
Sure. Some of my previous patches have been accepted, so I will continue
to post them when I can help. I never did come up with a unit testing
strategy, and was beaten to the punch :)
> Oh, and if you want to help out with documentation for 2.0, i have
> actually written quite a bit, but it is all plain text. I mostly
> need help either integrating it into the old DVSL doc system or (if
> you're feeling ambitious) Henning's new Maven-based doc system that
> Engine is using now.
What about using a Wiki? Or, are those seen as too hard to maintain when
it comes to conflicting versions, etc.?
-chris
Re: [veltools] what next?
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
Nathan,
Nathan Bubna wrote:
> i
> think it would be appropriate to release the trunk as 1.4 rather than
> 1.3.1.
+1, to the extent that my opinion matters ;)
> Bueller?
Fry?
-chris
Re: [veltools] what next?
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
Update:
So, i just finished going through recent changes to the trunk (aka 1.x
branch), and there are more than i'd remembered during the discussion
below. As there are a number of new features, not just bug fixes, i
think it would be appropriate to release the trunk as 1.4 rather than
1.3.1. I'm going to start preparing to do the release now. If anyone
insists on this being 1.3.1, please speak up soon so that i don't have
to call for multiple votes and all that.
This is also last call for any final tweaks to 1.x. Claude?
Christopher? Marino? Bueller? last chance folks, then it's all
2.x... :)
stay tuned...
On Oct 29, 2007 8:24 AM, Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/28/07, Claude Brisson <cl...@renegat.net> wrote:
> > Le vendredi 26 octobre 2007 à 11:38 -0700, Nathan Bubna a écrit :
> > > Hey Velocity folks (and especially VelocityTools folks),
> > >
> > > VelocityTools 2 is working well and pretty much ready for another
> > > alpha release, but it's not moving as quickly as i'd hoped. In the
> > > meantime, VelocityTools 1.x has a few unreleased features and fixes
> > > that are overdue for release. This has created something of an
> > > impasse for me, and i'd love your input on a few things.
> >
> > Why not target a beta release? I'm already using it and quite happy with
> > it.
>
> i'm not comfortable attaching the word beta to a 2.0 release whose
> docs are almost completely unchange from the last 1.x release. i do
> agree the code is beta-quality, but the 2.0 docs are truly alpha.
>
> > > I have scratched my main personal itches for VelocityTools 2, but
> > > there are still some things i was planning to have before we release
> > > 2.0, specifically updated docs, updated showcase examples, Tiles2
> > > support and complete caching for VelocityViewTag. Updating the docs
> > > and showcase examples are firm requirements for me, but the other two
> > > features are not things i personally need.
> >
> > Me neither...
> >
> > > So, question one, what are
> > > your thoughts and feelings on the use/importance of:
> > >
> > > Tiles2 support?
> > > caching for the VelocityViewTag?
> > > something else i'm forgetting?
> > >
> > > Now, in regards to VelocityTools 1.x. VelocityTools 2 is almost
> > > completely compatible (though with much deprecation) with
> > > VelocityTools 1.3. Second question: what should we do with the 1.x
> > > series?
> >
> > +1 to Will suggestion: release a 1.3.1 and inform users that they should
> > move to 2.0.
>
> i'm ok with that. if anyone out there objects, speak up soon! :)
>
> > > stop now and focus on getting 2.0 out and easing transition from 1.3 to 2.0?
> > > release the trunk as 1.4 and be done with it?
> > > release the trunk as 1.3.1 (since there's not a ton of new stuff) and
> > > be done with it?
> > > continue developing both 1.x and 2.x in parallel?
> > > some other option?
> > >
> > > Finally, my third question, will you help? Claude? Marino?
> > > Christopher T.? Christopher S.? Will? I know you guys are out there!
> > > :) And yeah, i know life is busy, and i've been charging madly ahead
> > > with 2.0 development, making it hard to jump in. But, 2.0 has largely
> > > gelled at this point, and i could REALLY use some help with filling
> > > out tests and updating documentation for it (which are all fairly easy
> > > for multiple devs to do in parallel).
> >
> > I'll do my best... in terms of documentation, I'm searching for a way to
> > give more visibility to the VelTools library an an efficient alternative
> > to framework based approaches for small webapp projects. I've got the
> > feeling that newcomers may perceive VelTools at first as a bunch of
> > unordered goodies for Velocity, which it is definitely not.
>
> yeah, that would be great. feel free to experiment! i'll chime in as
> i think of things.
>
> > > Also, i'm seriously lacking in
> > > motivation to get the latest stuff in 1.x documented and released,
> > > since i'm just using 2.0 now. If any of you guys are still invested
> > > in 1.x and interested in seeing another release (or more), now is the
> > > time to speak up and help out. I know i told someone months ago that
> > > i'd rattle off another 1.x release, but i'm just not sure it's worth
> > > it at this point. Sorry. :(
> > >
> > > Thanks for reading! Please let me know your thoughts and seriously
> > > consider helping out. Oh, and if you want to help out with
> > > documentation for 2.0, i have actually written quite a bit, but it is
> > > all plain text. I mostly need help either integrating it into the old
> > > DVSL doc system or (if you're feeling ambitious) Henning's new
> > > Maven-based doc system that Engine is using now.
> >
> > Plain text is much more than nothing!
>
> :) when code/docs/whatever exists in only one digital location, it is
> just a small step away from nothing. working to get the text on the
> wiki for more permanency...
>
>
> >
> >
> > > peace,
> > > nathan
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: [veltools] what next?
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
On 10/28/07, Claude Brisson <cl...@renegat.net> wrote:
> Le vendredi 26 octobre 2007 à 11:38 -0700, Nathan Bubna a écrit :
> > Hey Velocity folks (and especially VelocityTools folks),
> >
> > VelocityTools 2 is working well and pretty much ready for another
> > alpha release, but it's not moving as quickly as i'd hoped. In the
> > meantime, VelocityTools 1.x has a few unreleased features and fixes
> > that are overdue for release. This has created something of an
> > impasse for me, and i'd love your input on a few things.
>
> Why not target a beta release? I'm already using it and quite happy with
> it.
i'm not comfortable attaching the word beta to a 2.0 release whose
docs are almost completely unchange from the last 1.x release. i do
agree the code is beta-quality, but the 2.0 docs are truly alpha.
> > I have scratched my main personal itches for VelocityTools 2, but
> > there are still some things i was planning to have before we release
> > 2.0, specifically updated docs, updated showcase examples, Tiles2
> > support and complete caching for VelocityViewTag. Updating the docs
> > and showcase examples are firm requirements for me, but the other two
> > features are not things i personally need.
>
> Me neither...
>
> > So, question one, what are
> > your thoughts and feelings on the use/importance of:
> >
> > Tiles2 support?
> > caching for the VelocityViewTag?
> > something else i'm forgetting?
> >
> > Now, in regards to VelocityTools 1.x. VelocityTools 2 is almost
> > completely compatible (though with much deprecation) with
> > VelocityTools 1.3. Second question: what should we do with the 1.x
> > series?
>
> +1 to Will suggestion: release a 1.3.1 and inform users that they should
> move to 2.0.
i'm ok with that. if anyone out there objects, speak up soon! :)
> > stop now and focus on getting 2.0 out and easing transition from 1.3 to 2.0?
> > release the trunk as 1.4 and be done with it?
> > release the trunk as 1.3.1 (since there's not a ton of new stuff) and
> > be done with it?
> > continue developing both 1.x and 2.x in parallel?
> > some other option?
> >
> > Finally, my third question, will you help? Claude? Marino?
> > Christopher T.? Christopher S.? Will? I know you guys are out there!
> > :) And yeah, i know life is busy, and i've been charging madly ahead
> > with 2.0 development, making it hard to jump in. But, 2.0 has largely
> > gelled at this point, and i could REALLY use some help with filling
> > out tests and updating documentation for it (which are all fairly easy
> > for multiple devs to do in parallel).
>
> I'll do my best... in terms of documentation, I'm searching for a way to
> give more visibility to the VelTools library an an efficient alternative
> to framework based approaches for small webapp projects. I've got the
> feeling that newcomers may perceive VelTools at first as a bunch of
> unordered goodies for Velocity, which it is definitely not.
yeah, that would be great. feel free to experiment! i'll chime in as
i think of things.
> > Also, i'm seriously lacking in
> > motivation to get the latest stuff in 1.x documented and released,
> > since i'm just using 2.0 now. If any of you guys are still invested
> > in 1.x and interested in seeing another release (or more), now is the
> > time to speak up and help out. I know i told someone months ago that
> > i'd rattle off another 1.x release, but i'm just not sure it's worth
> > it at this point. Sorry. :(
> >
> > Thanks for reading! Please let me know your thoughts and seriously
> > consider helping out. Oh, and if you want to help out with
> > documentation for 2.0, i have actually written quite a bit, but it is
> > all plain text. I mostly need help either integrating it into the old
> > DVSL doc system or (if you're feeling ambitious) Henning's new
> > Maven-based doc system that Engine is using now.
>
> Plain text is much more than nothing!
:) when code/docs/whatever exists in only one digital location, it is
just a small step away from nothing. working to get the text on the
wiki for more permanency...
>
>
> > peace,
> > nathan
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
Re: [veltools] what next?
Posted by Claude Brisson <cl...@renegat.net>.
Le vendredi 26 octobre 2007 à 11:38 -0700, Nathan Bubna a écrit :
> Hey Velocity folks (and especially VelocityTools folks),
>
> VelocityTools 2 is working well and pretty much ready for another
> alpha release, but it's not moving as quickly as i'd hoped. In the
> meantime, VelocityTools 1.x has a few unreleased features and fixes
> that are overdue for release. This has created something of an
> impasse for me, and i'd love your input on a few things.
Why not target a beta release? I'm already using it and quite happy with
it.
> I have scratched my main personal itches for VelocityTools 2, but
> there are still some things i was planning to have before we release
> 2.0, specifically updated docs, updated showcase examples, Tiles2
> support and complete caching for VelocityViewTag. Updating the docs
> and showcase examples are firm requirements for me, but the other two
> features are not things i personally need.
Me neither...
> So, question one, what are
> your thoughts and feelings on the use/importance of:
>
> Tiles2 support?
> caching for the VelocityViewTag?
> something else i'm forgetting?
>
> Now, in regards to VelocityTools 1.x. VelocityTools 2 is almost
> completely compatible (though with much deprecation) with
> VelocityTools 1.3. Second question: what should we do with the 1.x
> series?
+1 to Will suggestion: release a 1.3.1 and inform users that they should
move to 2.0.
> stop now and focus on getting 2.0 out and easing transition from 1.3 to 2.0?
> release the trunk as 1.4 and be done with it?
> release the trunk as 1.3.1 (since there's not a ton of new stuff) and
> be done with it?
> continue developing both 1.x and 2.x in parallel?
> some other option?
>
> Finally, my third question, will you help? Claude? Marino?
> Christopher T.? Christopher S.? Will? I know you guys are out there!
> :) And yeah, i know life is busy, and i've been charging madly ahead
> with 2.0 development, making it hard to jump in. But, 2.0 has largely
> gelled at this point, and i could REALLY use some help with filling
> out tests and updating documentation for it (which are all fairly easy
> for multiple devs to do in parallel).
I'll do my best... in terms of documentation, I'm searching for a way to
give more visibility to the VelTools library an an efficient alternative
to framework based approaches for small webapp projects. I've got the
feeling that newcomers may perceive VelTools at first as a bunch of
unordered goodies for Velocity, which it is definitely not.
> Also, i'm seriously lacking in
> motivation to get the latest stuff in 1.x documented and released,
> since i'm just using 2.0 now. If any of you guys are still invested
> in 1.x and interested in seeing another release (or more), now is the
> time to speak up and help out. I know i told someone months ago that
> i'd rattle off another 1.x release, but i'm just not sure it's worth
> it at this point. Sorry. :(
>
> Thanks for reading! Please let me know your thoughts and seriously
> consider helping out. Oh, and if you want to help out with
> documentation for 2.0, i have actually written quite a bit, but it is
> all plain text. I mostly need help either integrating it into the old
> DVSL doc system or (if you're feeling ambitious) Henning's new
> Maven-based doc system that Engine is using now.
Plain text is much more than nothing!
> peace,
> nathan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@velocity.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@velocity.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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