Cross-pollination

[Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>]

The only concept that I found worth talking about (apologies if I missed
others covered by the incredible noise!) is Sam's suggestion that
'degree of cross-pollination' should be used as a metric to measure the
value of merging efforts.

Of all the other proposed metrics, I find this one the most appealing
because is *not* technology oriented.

The current effort merging guidelines (code donations approuval) are
strictly based on the presumed health of the community behind the
donation. The reason for this is that merging healthy communities brings
value since it expands the global IQ.

Now, Sam points out that this might not be enough, as many efforts don't
cross-pollinate, thus fail to increase the 'genetic variety' of the
community.

In society, two terms are used for this 'melting pot' (when cultural
cross-pollination exists) and 'mixing bowl' (when cultural groups are
forced live side by side, but don't share much).

Sourceforge is the ultimate 'mixing bowl' and we don't want that.

But is Jakarta (or XML) really a 'melting pot'?

Would a single container increase or decrease such cross-pollination?

Would POI increase it more on Jakarta, more on XML or more remaining it
on Sourceforge?

Would factoring out a bunch of efforts to 'tools.apache.org' increase it
or decrease it?

Would moving the velocity-based stylesheet language to XML increase or
decrease it?

One thing is for sure: both Gump and Forrest want to go in this
direction: provide solid technological infrastructure in order for
efforts to communicate, interoperate, share visions and exchange code,
ideas and solutions.

Food for thought.

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Cross-pollination

[Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>]

on 1/7/02 11:17 AM, "Ted Husted" <hu...@apache.org> wrote:

> +1 
> 
> I believe that if we continue to provide an useful structure, then the
> community will continue to build itself, in the way the community sees
> fit. 

We have grown to the size where we don't have structure anymore because no
one follows it. Case in point, code which has been checked in which does not
follow the standards we do have.

> As I understand it, the point of the ASF is promote the development of
> codebases in the Apache Way. As a administrative convenience, the
> Jakarta project was born to host these codebases. Whether or not the
> codebases interact or cross-pollinate or form a larger community, I
> think, is irrelevant. If the codebases want to do this, fine. If the
> codebases don't want to do this, also fine.

I don't agree with that at all. If the above is the case, then we are no
better than a very public Sourceforge.

> Cross-pollination, when it happens, it a great thing. But it should not
> be the test of Jakarta. The only test is whether our teams are
> meritocratic, and are happily using that meritocracy to create great
> software. 

Clearly we do not share similar values and opinions.

-jon


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Re: Cross-pollination

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> One thing is for sure: both Gump and Forrest want to go in this
> direction: provide solid technological infrastructure in order for
> efforts to communicate, interoperate, share visions and exchange code,
> ideas and solutions.
> 
> Food for thought.

+1 

I believe that if we continue to provide an useful structure, then the
community will continue to build itself, in the way the community sees
fit. 

As I understand it, the point of the ASF is promote the development of
codebases in the Apache Way. As a administrative convenience, the
Jakarta project was born to host these codebases. Whether or not the
codebases interact or cross-pollinate or form a larger community, I
think, is irrelevant. If the codebases want to do this, fine. If the
codebases don't want to do this, also fine. 

Cross-pollination, when it happens, it a great thing. But it should not
be the test of Jakarta. The only test is whether our teams are
meritocratic, and are happily using that meritocracy to create great
software. 


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Re: Cross-pollination

[Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>]

on 1/7/02 9:03 AM, "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:

> One thing is for sure: both Gump and Forrest want to go in this
> direction: provide solid technological infrastructure in order for
> efforts to communicate, interoperate, share visions and exchange code,
> ideas and solutions.

If Forrest is so great and all about 'communicating' and 'interoperating',
how come I don't see any mention of what the f*ck it is anywhere on
*.apache.org? What the heck is it?

-jon


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