What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

So the PR for my Apache Way talk been merged into the repo. What are the next steps?
- Do we want to make a copy of it’s output available on our site or version control for people to see / search engines to crawl?
- Do we want to make an official release and vote on that and distribute an artefact of it?

Thanks,
Justin

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Lars Francke <la...@gmail.com>]

Hi Justin,

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 8:36 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@me.com> wrote:

> HI,
>
> > That's what I meant with meaningful though, it's tough enough to gather
> > three votes in long established projects so it'll be interesting to see
> how
> > successful we'll be.
>
> If a project doesn’t  have 3 active PMC members it’s attic time as that
> what the board need to ensure oversight - coincidently that’s what you need
> for a release vote to pass 3 +1’s and more +1s than -1s.
>

I understand what you mean and I agree with you!

I am talking about something else, however: If all we do is vote because
the rules say so and it's mostly "ceremony" then the vote itself is not
very meaningful. I'm afraid this could happen but I don't know. So as I
said: Let's just try and see how it goes.

Cheers,
Lars

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Justin Mclean <ju...@me.com>]

HI,

> That's what I meant with meaningful though, it's tough enough to gather
> three votes in long established projects so it'll be interesting to see how
> successful we'll be.

If a project doesn’t  have 3 active PMC members it’s attic time as that what the board need to ensure oversight - coincidently that’s what you need for a release vote to pass 3 +1’s and more +1s than -1s.

> As someone who's never done a release: Can you elaborate a bit/link to
> something that's necessary to do?

Well my other pull request has a check list of what’s needed. I checked 100’s so can help there.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Lars Francke <la...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, May 17, 2019, 02:13 Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Would we release all our content at the same time?
>
> Probably not, like like other project with multiple products we release
> each one as needed. But if someone wanted to release several at the same
> time that’s also fine, whatever makes sense.
>
> > Would we do it on a timed schedule or when someone feels like it?
>
> Given we’ve volunteers having a time schedule probably doesn’t make a lot
> of sense.
>
> > Most of our content commits could probably stand on its own and could be
> released
> > after each commit. We can't really meaningful vote on hundreds of
> releases
> > per year (of course hoping we'll get that much content).
>
> I vote on 100’s of releases a year so I don’t see why not :-) (seriously I
> do) Let's deal with that issue if and when it happens.
>
> Most of the releases are probably going to be easy to check especially
> parts the first release. If only the slides content has changed and no new
> software or images or other assets added it’s a straightforward vote. The
> IPMC may get sick of us, but as we have several IPMC on this PPMC I don’t
> see that as a major issue.
>

I'm happy to try.

That's what I meant with meaningful though, it's tough enough to gather
three votes in long established projects so it'll be interesting to see how
successful we'll be. Especially if the votes are only/mostly for ceremony
we might get tired of it soon ourselves.

As someone who's never done a release: Can you elaborate a bit/link to
something that's necessary to do?

>
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

> Would we release all our content at the same time?

Probably not, like like other project with multiple products we release each one as needed. But if someone wanted to release several at the same time that’s also fine, whatever makes sense.

> Would we do it on a timed schedule or when someone feels like it?

Given we’ve volunteers having a time schedule probably doesn’t make a lot of sense.

> Most of our content commits could probably stand on its own and could be released
> after each commit. We can't really meaningful vote on hundreds of releases
> per year (of course hoping we'll get that much content).

I vote on 100’s of releases a year so I don’t see why not :-) (seriously I do) Let's deal with that issue if and when it happens.

Most of the releases are probably going to be easy to check especially parts the first release. If only the slides content has changed and no new software or images or other assets added it’s a straightforward vote. The IPMC may get sick of us, but as we have several IPMC on this PPMC I don’t see that as a major issue.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Lars Francke <la...@gmail.com>]

Just so there is no misunderstanding: I'm neither for nor against doing
releases. I'm fine either way.

Would we release all our content at the same time? Or would we release
every bit separately?
Releasing everything separately would probably become a burden quite soon.

Would we do it on a timed schedule or when someone feels like it? Most of
our content commits could probably stand on its own and could be released
after each commit. We can't really meaningful vote on hundreds of releases
per year (of course hoping we'll get that much content).


On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 1:09 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > That's a good point but again other projects do similar things, no?
> > One example is ComDev. Are the things they produce (e.g. content) being
> > "released" properly? Some of it just pops up on their homepage.
>
> Documentation is seen as different true. In this case the slides do also
> contain some code (phython, poms and the like) so it may not be considered
> just documentation. I agree it’s not clear cut.
>
> Perhaps this also helps [1] "Generically, a release is anything that is
> published beyond the group that owns it. For an Apache project, that means
> any publication outside the development community, defined as individuals
> actively participating in development or following the dev list.” Given we
> want people outside our development community to use it is look like we
> probably need to make releases.
>
> If we want to make convenient zips / tars of things and use the ASF
> distribution mechanise we would certainly need to make releases.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#release-definition
>
>

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

> That's a good point but again other projects do similar things, no?
> One example is ComDev. Are the things they produce (e.g. content) being
> "released" properly? Some of it just pops up on their homepage.

Documentation is seen as different true. In this case the slides do also contain some code (phython, poms and the like) so it may not be considered just documentation. I agree it’s not clear cut.

Perhaps this also helps [1] "Generically, a release is anything that is published beyond the group that owns it. For an Apache project, that means any publication outside the development community, defined as individuals actively participating in development or following the dev list.” Given we want people outside our development community to use it is look like we probably need to make releases.

If we want to make convenient zips / tars of things and use the ASF distribution mechanise we would certainly need to make releases.

Thanks,
Justin

1. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#release-definition

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Lars Francke <la...@gmail.com>]

That's a good point but again other projects do similar things, no?
One example is ComDev. Are the things they produce (e.g. content) being
"released" properly? Some of it just pops up on their homepage.
Documentation can be considered the same way. If it's in Confluence is it
"released"?

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:30 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Another reason is by ASF policy [1] we can’t distribute unreleased
> material.
>
> It may be possible we could ask for an exception to this.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#publication

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

Another reason is by ASF policy [1] we can’t distribute unreleased material.

It may be possible we could ask for an exception to this.

Thanks,
Justin

1. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#publication

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Lars Francke <la...@gmail.com>]

Hi everyone,

I'm on the fence. Releases here are a bit arbitrary (I know other projects
have a similar problem). Do we do one every month? Every time we update
something? Every time someone of us needs a new downloadable version?

Any suggestions?

But I think all (but one, see below) the points Justin makes are good
reasons to have releases. So I'm not sure what to do.

And one more thing the IPMC expects a podling to do a number of releases if
> we want to graduate.
>

This - I think - is the only reason we shouldn't care about. If the rules
are this way and they don't make sense for a certain project then the rules
need to be changed in my opinion.

Cheers,
Lars

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

And one more thing the IPMC expects a podling to do a number of releases if we want to graduate.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

> My vote goes to immediate availability on the site. Release, voting, and
> artifacts may (or may not) be our next steps.

Thinking a little more about this this I think we probably need both as:
- Voting on release will check that they are correctly licensed and all content is ALv2 licensed, so that they can be freely used.
- Voting also also give a simple artefact we can point to and put on a download page.
- Voting also get the community involved.
- Have just the results of an article available make it easier for people to view and want to use it,

Thanks,
Justin

Re: What happens after training material for a PR is accepted?

[Dmitriy Pavlov <dp...@apache.org>]

Hi Justin,

My vote goes to immediate availability on the site. Release, voting, and
artifacts may (or may not) be our next steps.

I'm preparing Apache Ignite (another TLP project) release and it is quite
tricky. I suppose it is better to keep things as simple as possible.

Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov

вс, 12 мая 2019 г. в 05:00, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>:

> Hi,
>
> So the PR for my Apache Way talk been merged into the repo. What are the
> next steps?
> - Do we want to make a copy of it’s output available on our site or
> version control for people to see / search engines to crawl?
> - Do we want to make an official release and vote on that and distribute
> an artefact of it?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin