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Posted to docs@httpd.apache.org by Herve Dumont <hd...@club-internet.fr> on 2001/01/14 11:08:40 UTC
httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Attached is a first version of httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr.
and httpd-docs-2.0/manual/new_features_2_0.html.fr
Suggestions and comments are welcomed.
I'll continue next week others manual pages.
--
Herve Dumont.
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> I think leaving things the way they are is best all round --
> but when things are mailed, an extra rename should be taken
> so that mail agents know how to type the attachment.
Or, better yet, just configure your mailer/operating system so that it
associates "fr" (or whatever) with "text/html" or "text/plain". That way,
the mail attachement gets the correct mime type and the correct file name.
Joshua.
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
"William A. Rowe, Jr." wrote:
>
> --Apache-- should treat such things as order-independent! I
> concur 100%!
It does.
> The issue isn't -with- Apache, it's with how legible or usable
> our doc files are in the absense of Apache.
No, I don't believe that's the case. You seem to think
that accessing the documents with the file: scheme is the issue;
it isn't. That has never been a goal; it has *always* been
assumed that they'd be read through the auspices of a running
Apache server.
The issue is whether mod_negotiation is active or not. In
the past, we always had a "foo.html", and any translations
were added as "foo.html.fr". A request for "foo.html" would
therefore always find *something*, possibly the translated
file if that was preferred.
Now that we have discarded "foo.html" and replaced it with
"foo.html.en", mod_negotiation is *always* required in order
to find a file. Okey, fine. At least the base name is
something IOTTMCO, namely "foo.html".
Naming things "foo.fr.html" would require that all those
links be changed to just "foo", which IMHO violates the
Principle of Least Astonishment. For one thing, it will
break hundreds of thousands of links already in existence
on the Web. For another, people frequently tend to add
".html" unless the URL ends in a slash. And finally, it
will collide with directories and other files with no suffix
at all.
In addition, "name.content-type.language.charset.encoding"
is a perfectly reasonable and rational ordering of metdata,
in most-to-least significance order. What it is, how it's
presented, et cetera.
I think leaving things the way they are is best all round --
but when things are mailed, an extra rename should be taken
so that mail agents know how to type the attachment. THAT'S
the only time I think we need to worry about the naming.
--
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar <http://Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Software Foundation <http://www.apache.org/>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Apache-Server.Com/>
"Apache Server Unleashed" <http://ApacheUnleashed.Com/>
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
From: "Rodent of Unusual Size" <Ke...@Golux.Com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 7:46 AM
> "William A. Rowe, Jr." wrote:
> >
> > When we began, we should have begun using index.fr.html. Yes,
> > I know the side effects, and if we must program around them, we
> > should start.
>
> I disagree. Strongly.
>
> > It would be good to be able to specify index.fr, index.html.fr, or
> > index.fr.html and come up with the same page. But the final suffix
> > should be the final word on the mime type, not the encoding.
>
> I also disagree -- strongly -- with this sentiment. The
> extensions *should* be order-independent. Currently they
> are; you're advocating that they be made order-dependent,
> which I consider a giant step back.
Ahhh, agreement :-)>
--Apache-- should treat such things as order-independent! I concur 100%!
The issue isn't -with- Apache, it's with how legible or usable our doc
files are in the absense of Apache. Most clients in the world at this
moment don't figure out what an index.html.fr file is without coaching
(open the browser, open the document, and ahhh, it's a web page.) This
specific group (along with email transports and others) would recognize
index.fr.html without any complaints and open a browser window for them.
It's all mute anyways. With the current schema, they couldn't click a
single hyperlink without coming to a dead end. So I guess that's the
value of discussing this further :-(
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
"William A. Rowe, Jr." wrote:
>
> This is why index.html.fr is wrong, period.
No, there's no 'period' about it.
> When we began, we should have begun using index.fr.html. Yes,
> I know the side effects, and if we must program around them, we
> should start.
I disagree. Strongly.
> It would be good to be able to specify index.fr, index.html.fr, or
> index.fr.html and come up with the same page. But the final suffix
> should be the final word on the mime type, not the encoding.
I also disagree -- strongly -- with this sentiment. The
extensions *should* be order-independent. Currently they
are; you're advocating that they be made order-dependent,
which I consider a giant step back.
--
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar <http://Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Software Foundation <http://www.apache.org/>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Apache-Server.Com/>
"Apache Server Unleashed" <http://ApacheUnleashed.Com/>
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
From: "Tony Finch" <do...@dotat.at>
To: <ap...@apache.org>
> Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com> wrote:
> >
> >First suggestion: attach them as something that is recognisably
> >text rather than application/octet-stream. One simple way is
> >to just add ".txt" to th end of the file name..
>
> They were sensibly attached using the intended final filename, e.g.
> index.html.fr, but most mail clients don't get language suffixes.
> Using a filename of index.html would perhaps have been optimal.
This is why index.html.fr is wrong, period.
When we began, we should have begun using index.fr.html. Yes, I know
the side effects, and if we must program around them, we should start.
It would be good to be able to specify index.fr, index.html.fr, or
index.fr.html and come up with the same page. But the final suffix
should be the final word on the mime type, not the encoding.
Bill
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Tony Finch <do...@dotat.at>.
Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com> wrote:
>
>First suggestion: attach them as something that is recognisably
>text rather than application/octet-stream. One simple way is
>to just add ".txt" to th end of the file name..
They were sensibly attached using the intended final filename, e.g.
index.html.fr, but most mail clients don't get language suffixes.
Using a filename of index.html would perhaps have been optimal.
Tony.
--
f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at
"Plan 9 deals with the resurrection of the dead."
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
Herve Dumont wrote:
>
> Attached is a first version of httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr.
> and httpd-docs-2.0/manual/new_features_2_0.html.fr
> Suggestions and comments are welcomed.
First suggestion: attach them as something that is recognisably
text rather than application/octet-stream. One simple way is
to just add ".txt" to th end of the file name..
--
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar <http://Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Software Foundation <http://www.apache.org/>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Apache-Server.Com/>
"Apache Server Unleashed" <http://ApacheUnleashed.Com/>
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Herve Dumont wrote:
> You can commit index.html.fr
> I submit you a second draft for new_features_2_0.html.fr (I hope it is
> text/html this time )
> This new draft includes comments from Benoit Garnier.
Both have now been committed to httpd-docs-2.0.
Joshua.
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Herve Dumont <hd...@club-internet.fr>.
You can commit index.html.fr
I submit you a second draft for new_features_2_0.html.fr (I hope it is
text/html this time )
This new draft includes comments from Benoit Garnier.
Hervé
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Joshua Slive" <jo...@slive.ca>
À : <ap...@apache.org>
Envoyé : jeudi 18 janvier 2001 21:06
Objet : Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Herve Dumont wrote:
>
> > Attached is a first version of httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr.
> > and httpd-docs-2.0/manual/new_features_2_0.html.fr
> > Suggestions and comments are welcomed.
> > I'll continue next week others manual pages.
>
> Herve,
>
> There have been no comments on this so far, and my limited french
> skills don't really allow me to contribute anything substantial. Would
> you like these files committed as-is, or do you want to submit another
> draft?
>
> Joshua.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Eric Cholet <ch...@logilune.com>.
>> Attached is a first version of httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr.
>> and httpd-docs-2.0/manual/new_features_2_0.html.fr
>> Suggestions and comments are welcomed.
>> I'll continue next week others manual pages.
>
> Herve,
>
> There have been no comments on this so far, and my limited french
> skills don't really allow me to contribute anything substantial. Would
> you like these files committed as-is, or do you want to submit another
> draft?
I volunteered to review and commit the files, but I have been away from
net access for the past few days, and will be again until next week.
I'll then review them and patch as necessary, I spotted a number of
misspellings but otherwise the files looked of very good quality.
--
Eric
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Herve Dumont wrote:
> Attached is a first version of httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html.fr.
> and httpd-docs-2.0/manual/new_features_2_0.html.fr
> Suggestions and comments are welcomed.
> I'll continue next week others manual pages.
Herve,
There have been no comments on this so far, and my limited french
skills don't really allow me to contribute anything substantial. Would
you like these files committed as-is, or do you want to submit another
draft?
Joshua.
Re: httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html
Posted by jo...@slive.ca.
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Justin C. Sherrill wrote:
> The "Other Platform Specific Notes" link on the main 2.0 manual page
> links to
> "httpd-docs-2.0/manual/platform/" - this directory has no default
> document, and so the viewer gets only a file listing.
>
> Should perf.html be renamed to index.html or, since perf.html is only
> for by-platform performance tuning, should a new document be made?
I believe a new document is in order. That is what I planned when I made
the "platform" directory, but I never got around to writing one.
Joshua.
httpd-docs-2.0/manual/index.html
Posted by "Justin C. Sherrill" <ju...@shiningsilence.com>.
The "Other Platform Specific Notes" link on the main 2.0 manual page
links to
"httpd-docs-2.0/manual/platform/" - this directory has no default
document, and so the viewer gets only a file listing.
Should perf.html be renamed to index.html or, since perf.html is only
for by-platform performance tuning, should a new document be made?
Justin