You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> on 2015/10/02 08:58:30 UTC
Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/29/15 3:55 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > Norman,
> >
> > Hello and welcome to Apache Commons.
> >
> > It's not clear to me why Naomi is better than regular expressions.
> Pointing
> > to Javadocs is not the best way to get traction.
> >
> > Your project would be better served by having some documentation on your
> > front page with an example driven tutorial.
> >
> > Is Naomi faster than REs?
> >
> > What can I do in Naomi that REs can't do? And vice-versa.
> >
> > Examples of this on your front page would help you at least get folks to
> > consider learning a brand new way of doing things...
>
> +1
> The code in SimpleExamples starts to get to this. Looks interesting
> and powerful. Either here or on the github readme you should take a
> stab at explaining a little more how hard problems using regex get
> easier with naomi, illustrated with some simple examples. Then
> maybe with help from community members here, you can develop some
> overview / getting started docs that help people get into the code.
>
+1.
Reading SimpleExamples, my summary would be a boilerplate description of
"It replaces the arcane regular expression language with an API". It
reminds me of command line argument parsers. Perl had/has a great regular
expression like command line argument parser, but it was cryptic and you
either loved it or hated it. Then along came Commons CLI, args4j and all
the others, providing a more OO/procedural API instead of its own mini
language. Not as 'powerful' (in that you had to type more), but simpler (in
that you didn't have to learn a new lingo and didn't have to juggle
multiple languages inside one context (a source file)).
I definitely need that user manual. It's hard, with a brain trained on
regular expressions, to read 'Pattern greek3=new CharSequencePattern("?")'
and realize (I think) that it means a literal ? character. It's also the
primary way it'll be successful. You need that educational path that
explains what a ExplicitCharClass is for, rather than randomly clicking on
javadoc :)
There'll also be much debate to be had I suspect. Is "a-e" too complex,
compared to "abcde" or "a","e". Which parts of regex are worth supporting,
vs not. Can I mix bits of regexp with bits of Naomi? new
ExplicitCharClass("a-eg-p").
Random.... I'd like the idea of varargs for automatic and'ing. ie:
new ExplicitCharClass("a-p", "!f") [and is a not char class too complex?].
Continuing on my summary, as I peruse the code a little more, I'd go with:
"Build a regular expression via an API, not an arcane language of its own".
I'd love to see that grow to:
"Express regular expressions as objects, or mix and match objects with that
arcane mini language we all love or loathe".
Hen
Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
+1 and it seems Git is too popular to avoid.
Gary
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/2/15 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > Well, a champion can volunteer to shepherd this through our incubator I
> > suppose,
>
> OK, I will volunteer to do this. I propose that we start this as a
> Commons Sandbox project. To do that, we need a VOTE to accept the
> code, a software grant and the IP clearance form [1] submitted to
> the Incubator PMC. We can use either git or svn for the new sandbox
> repo.
>
> Any objections? Any preference for git or svn?
>
> Phil
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/ip-clearance-template.html
>
>
> > like CommonsRDF, which seems pretty inactive ATM. There is also
> > the issue of "donate and forget" vs. staying plugged in the community.
> >
> > I just do not have the extra FOSS cycles to dig into the code ATM to see
> > what's under the hood.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/2/15 11:46 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> >>> I do not have time to dig into this one ATM but I'd like to give my 2c.
> >>>
> >>> Does this project introduce a new RE-like language or is it an API
> >> wrapper
> >>> for REs? It sounds like it is both.
> >> It looks to me like what it says it is, which is an alternative to
> >> REs, which IMO is a nice idea. Less "pattern matching language" and
> >> more objects expressing matching intent. End result is less
> >> developer thought required to accomplish a common task. Seems to
> >> fit nicely in Commons to me.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>> A project like this I could see in Commons if the project was split
> into
> >> an
> >>> API module and modules for different pattern matching languages, where
> >> the
> >>> standard Java RE would be the reference example. Naomi (I love the name
> >>> BTW, someones wife or daughter?) would be another implementation
> module.
> >>> With both under its belt, the project would be on fairly solid footing
> >>> (granted I do not know Naomi). You could even imaging implementations
> >> that
> >>> would accept a JXPath or a SQL WHERE clause.
> >>>
> >>> If the project is only meant to introduce a new RE-like language, then
> a
> >>> TLP would be probably more appropriate.
> >>>
> >>> 2c,
> >>> Gary
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 9/29/15 3:55 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> >>>>>> Norman,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello and welcome to Apache Commons.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's not clear to me why Naomi is better than regular expressions.
> >>>>> Pointing
> >>>>>> to Javadocs is not the best way to get traction.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your project would be better served by having some documentation on
> >>>> your
> >>>>>> front page with an example driven tutorial.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Is Naomi faster than REs?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What can I do in Naomi that REs can't do? And vice-versa.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Examples of this on your front page would help you at least get
> folks
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> consider learning a brand new way of doing things...
> >>>>> +1
> >>>>> The code in SimpleExamples starts to get to this. Looks interesting
> >>>>> and powerful. Either here or on the github readme you should take a
> >>>>> stab at explaining a little more how hard problems using regex get
> >>>>> easier with naomi, illustrated with some simple examples. Then
> >>>>> maybe with help from community members here, you can develop some
> >>>>> overview / getting started docs that help people get into the code.
> >>>>>
> >>>> +1.
> >>>>
> >>>> Reading SimpleExamples, my summary would be a boilerplate description
> of
> >>>> "It replaces the arcane regular expression language with an API". It
> >>>> reminds me of command line argument parsers. Perl had/has a great
> >> regular
> >>>> expression like command line argument parser, but it was cryptic and
> you
> >>>> either loved it or hated it. Then along came Commons CLI, args4j and
> all
> >>>> the others, providing a more OO/procedural API instead of its own mini
> >>>> language. Not as 'powerful' (in that you had to type more), but
> simpler
> >> (in
> >>>> that you didn't have to learn a new lingo and didn't have to juggle
> >>>> multiple languages inside one context (a source file)).
> >>>>
> >>>> I definitely need that user manual. It's hard, with a brain trained on
> >>>> regular expressions, to read 'Pattern greek3=new
> >> CharSequencePattern("?")'
> >>>> and realize (I think) that it means a literal ? character. It's also
> the
> >>>> primary way it'll be successful. You need that educational path that
> >>>> explains what a ExplicitCharClass is for, rather than randomly
> clicking
> >> on
> >>>> javadoc :)
> >>>>
> >>>> There'll also be much debate to be had I suspect. Is "a-e" too
> complex,
> >>>> compared to "abcde" or "a","e". Which parts of regex are worth
> >> supporting,
> >>>> vs not. Can I mix bits of regexp with bits of Naomi? new
> >>>> ExplicitCharClass("a-eg-p").
> >>>>
> >>>> Random.... I'd like the idea of varargs for automatic and'ing. ie:
> >>>>
> >>>> new ExplicitCharClass("a-p", "!f") [and is a not char class too
> >>>> complex?].
> >>>>
> >>>> Continuing on my summary, as I peruse the code a little more, I'd go
> >> with:
> >>>> "Build a regular expression via an API, not an arcane language of its
> >> own".
> >>>> I'd love to see that grow to:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Express regular expressions as objects, or mix and match objects with
> >> that
> >>>> arcane mini language we all love or loathe".
> >>>>
> >>>> Hen
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 10/2/15 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> Well, a champion can volunteer to shepherd this through our incubator I
> suppose,
OK, I will volunteer to do this. I propose that we start this as a
Commons Sandbox project. To do that, we need a VOTE to accept the
code, a software grant and the IP clearance form [1] submitted to
the Incubator PMC. We can use either git or svn for the new sandbox
repo.
Any objections? Any preference for git or svn?
Phil
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/ip-clearance-template.html
> like CommonsRDF, which seems pretty inactive ATM. There is also
> the issue of "donate and forget" vs. staying plugged in the community.
>
> I just do not have the extra FOSS cycles to dig into the code ATM to see
> what's under the hood.
>
> Gary
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/2/15 11:46 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>> I do not have time to dig into this one ATM but I'd like to give my 2c.
>>>
>>> Does this project introduce a new RE-like language or is it an API
>> wrapper
>>> for REs? It sounds like it is both.
>> It looks to me like what it says it is, which is an alternative to
>> REs, which IMO is a nice idea. Less "pattern matching language" and
>> more objects expressing matching intent. End result is less
>> developer thought required to accomplish a common task. Seems to
>> fit nicely in Commons to me.
>>
>> Phil
>>> A project like this I could see in Commons if the project was split into
>> an
>>> API module and modules for different pattern matching languages, where
>> the
>>> standard Java RE would be the reference example. Naomi (I love the name
>>> BTW, someones wife or daughter?) would be another implementation module.
>>> With both under its belt, the project would be on fairly solid footing
>>> (granted I do not know Naomi). You could even imaging implementations
>> that
>>> would accept a JXPath or a SQL WHERE clause.
>>>
>>> If the project is only meant to introduce a new RE-like language, then a
>>> TLP would be probably more appropriate.
>>>
>>> 2c,
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/29/15 3:55 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>>>>> Norman,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello and welcome to Apache Commons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not clear to me why Naomi is better than regular expressions.
>>>>> Pointing
>>>>>> to Javadocs is not the best way to get traction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your project would be better served by having some documentation on
>>>> your
>>>>>> front page with an example driven tutorial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is Naomi faster than REs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What can I do in Naomi that REs can't do? And vice-versa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Examples of this on your front page would help you at least get folks
>>>> to
>>>>>> consider learning a brand new way of doing things...
>>>>> +1
>>>>> The code in SimpleExamples starts to get to this. Looks interesting
>>>>> and powerful. Either here or on the github readme you should take a
>>>>> stab at explaining a little more how hard problems using regex get
>>>>> easier with naomi, illustrated with some simple examples. Then
>>>>> maybe with help from community members here, you can develop some
>>>>> overview / getting started docs that help people get into the code.
>>>>>
>>>> +1.
>>>>
>>>> Reading SimpleExamples, my summary would be a boilerplate description of
>>>> "It replaces the arcane regular expression language with an API". It
>>>> reminds me of command line argument parsers. Perl had/has a great
>> regular
>>>> expression like command line argument parser, but it was cryptic and you
>>>> either loved it or hated it. Then along came Commons CLI, args4j and all
>>>> the others, providing a more OO/procedural API instead of its own mini
>>>> language. Not as 'powerful' (in that you had to type more), but simpler
>> (in
>>>> that you didn't have to learn a new lingo and didn't have to juggle
>>>> multiple languages inside one context (a source file)).
>>>>
>>>> I definitely need that user manual. It's hard, with a brain trained on
>>>> regular expressions, to read 'Pattern greek3=new
>> CharSequencePattern("?")'
>>>> and realize (I think) that it means a literal ? character. It's also the
>>>> primary way it'll be successful. You need that educational path that
>>>> explains what a ExplicitCharClass is for, rather than randomly clicking
>> on
>>>> javadoc :)
>>>>
>>>> There'll also be much debate to be had I suspect. Is "a-e" too complex,
>>>> compared to "abcde" or "a","e". Which parts of regex are worth
>> supporting,
>>>> vs not. Can I mix bits of regexp with bits of Naomi? new
>>>> ExplicitCharClass("a-eg-p").
>>>>
>>>> Random.... I'd like the idea of varargs for automatic and'ing. ie:
>>>>
>>>> new ExplicitCharClass("a-p", "!f") [and is a not char class too
>>>> complex?].
>>>>
>>>> Continuing on my summary, as I peruse the code a little more, I'd go
>> with:
>>>> "Build a regular expression via an API, not an arcane language of its
>> own".
>>>> I'd love to see that grow to:
>>>>
>>>> "Express regular expressions as objects, or mix and match objects with
>> that
>>>> arcane mini language we all love or loathe".
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Well, a champion can volunteer to shepherd this through our incubator I
suppose, like CommonsRDF, which seems pretty inactive ATM. There is also
the issue of "donate and forget" vs. staying plugged in the community.
I just do not have the extra FOSS cycles to dig into the code ATM to see
what's under the hood.
Gary
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/2/15 11:46 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > I do not have time to dig into this one ATM but I'd like to give my 2c.
> >
> > Does this project introduce a new RE-like language or is it an API
> wrapper
> > for REs? It sounds like it is both.
>
> It looks to me like what it says it is, which is an alternative to
> REs, which IMO is a nice idea. Less "pattern matching language" and
> more objects expressing matching intent. End result is less
> developer thought required to accomplish a common task. Seems to
> fit nicely in Commons to me.
>
> Phil
> >
> > A project like this I could see in Commons if the project was split into
> an
> > API module and modules for different pattern matching languages, where
> the
> > standard Java RE would be the reference example. Naomi (I love the name
> > BTW, someones wife or daughter?) would be another implementation module.
> > With both under its belt, the project would be on fairly solid footing
> > (granted I do not know Naomi). You could even imaging implementations
> that
> > would accept a JXPath or a SQL WHERE clause.
> >
> > If the project is only meant to introduce a new RE-like language, then a
> > TLP would be probably more appropriate.
> >
> > 2c,
> > Gary
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 9/29/15 3:55 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> >>>> Norman,
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello and welcome to Apache Commons.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's not clear to me why Naomi is better than regular expressions.
> >>> Pointing
> >>>> to Javadocs is not the best way to get traction.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your project would be better served by having some documentation on
> >> your
> >>>> front page with an example driven tutorial.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is Naomi faster than REs?
> >>>>
> >>>> What can I do in Naomi that REs can't do? And vice-versa.
> >>>>
> >>>> Examples of this on your front page would help you at least get folks
> >> to
> >>>> consider learning a brand new way of doing things...
> >>> +1
> >>> The code in SimpleExamples starts to get to this. Looks interesting
> >>> and powerful. Either here or on the github readme you should take a
> >>> stab at explaining a little more how hard problems using regex get
> >>> easier with naomi, illustrated with some simple examples. Then
> >>> maybe with help from community members here, you can develop some
> >>> overview / getting started docs that help people get into the code.
> >>>
> >> +1.
> >>
> >> Reading SimpleExamples, my summary would be a boilerplate description of
> >> "It replaces the arcane regular expression language with an API". It
> >> reminds me of command line argument parsers. Perl had/has a great
> regular
> >> expression like command line argument parser, but it was cryptic and you
> >> either loved it or hated it. Then along came Commons CLI, args4j and all
> >> the others, providing a more OO/procedural API instead of its own mini
> >> language. Not as 'powerful' (in that you had to type more), but simpler
> (in
> >> that you didn't have to learn a new lingo and didn't have to juggle
> >> multiple languages inside one context (a source file)).
> >>
> >> I definitely need that user manual. It's hard, with a brain trained on
> >> regular expressions, to read 'Pattern greek3=new
> CharSequencePattern("?")'
> >> and realize (I think) that it means a literal ? character. It's also the
> >> primary way it'll be successful. You need that educational path that
> >> explains what a ExplicitCharClass is for, rather than randomly clicking
> on
> >> javadoc :)
> >>
> >> There'll also be much debate to be had I suspect. Is "a-e" too complex,
> >> compared to "abcde" or "a","e". Which parts of regex are worth
> supporting,
> >> vs not. Can I mix bits of regexp with bits of Naomi? new
> >> ExplicitCharClass("a-eg-p").
> >>
> >> Random.... I'd like the idea of varargs for automatic and'ing. ie:
> >>
> >> new ExplicitCharClass("a-p", "!f") [and is a not char class too
> >> complex?].
> >>
> >> Continuing on my summary, as I peruse the code a little more, I'd go
> with:
> >>
> >> "Build a regular expression via an API, not an arcane language of its
> own".
> >>
> >> I'd love to see that grow to:
> >>
> >> "Express regular expressions as objects, or mix and match objects with
> that
> >> arcane mini language we all love or loathe".
> >>
> >> Hen
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 10/2/15 11:46 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> I do not have time to dig into this one ATM but I'd like to give my 2c.
>
> Does this project introduce a new RE-like language or is it an API wrapper
> for REs? It sounds like it is both.
It looks to me like what it says it is, which is an alternative to
REs, which IMO is a nice idea. Less "pattern matching language" and
more objects expressing matching intent. End result is less
developer thought required to accomplish a common task. Seems to
fit nicely in Commons to me.
Phil
>
> A project like this I could see in Commons if the project was split into an
> API module and modules for different pattern matching languages, where the
> standard Java RE would be the reference example. Naomi (I love the name
> BTW, someones wife or daughter?) would be another implementation module.
> With both under its belt, the project would be on fairly solid footing
> (granted I do not know Naomi). You could even imaging implementations that
> would accept a JXPath or a SQL WHERE clause.
>
> If the project is only meant to introduce a new RE-like language, then a
> TLP would be probably more appropriate.
>
> 2c,
> Gary
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/29/15 3:55 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>>> Norman,
>>>>
>>>> Hello and welcome to Apache Commons.
>>>>
>>>> It's not clear to me why Naomi is better than regular expressions.
>>> Pointing
>>>> to Javadocs is not the best way to get traction.
>>>>
>>>> Your project would be better served by having some documentation on
>> your
>>>> front page with an example driven tutorial.
>>>>
>>>> Is Naomi faster than REs?
>>>>
>>>> What can I do in Naomi that REs can't do? And vice-versa.
>>>>
>>>> Examples of this on your front page would help you at least get folks
>> to
>>>> consider learning a brand new way of doing things...
>>> +1
>>> The code in SimpleExamples starts to get to this. Looks interesting
>>> and powerful. Either here or on the github readme you should take a
>>> stab at explaining a little more how hard problems using regex get
>>> easier with naomi, illustrated with some simple examples. Then
>>> maybe with help from community members here, you can develop some
>>> overview / getting started docs that help people get into the code.
>>>
>> +1.
>>
>> Reading SimpleExamples, my summary would be a boilerplate description of
>> "It replaces the arcane regular expression language with an API". It
>> reminds me of command line argument parsers. Perl had/has a great regular
>> expression like command line argument parser, but it was cryptic and you
>> either loved it or hated it. Then along came Commons CLI, args4j and all
>> the others, providing a more OO/procedural API instead of its own mini
>> language. Not as 'powerful' (in that you had to type more), but simpler (in
>> that you didn't have to learn a new lingo and didn't have to juggle
>> multiple languages inside one context (a source file)).
>>
>> I definitely need that user manual. It's hard, with a brain trained on
>> regular expressions, to read 'Pattern greek3=new CharSequencePattern("?")'
>> and realize (I think) that it means a literal ? character. It's also the
>> primary way it'll be successful. You need that educational path that
>> explains what a ExplicitCharClass is for, rather than randomly clicking on
>> javadoc :)
>>
>> There'll also be much debate to be had I suspect. Is "a-e" too complex,
>> compared to "abcde" or "a","e". Which parts of regex are worth supporting,
>> vs not. Can I mix bits of regexp with bits of Naomi? new
>> ExplicitCharClass("a-eg-p").
>>
>> Random.... I'd like the idea of varargs for automatic and'ing. ie:
>>
>> new ExplicitCharClass("a-p", "!f") [and is a not char class too
>> complex?].
>>
>> Continuing on my summary, as I peruse the code a little more, I'd go with:
>>
>> "Build a regular expression via an API, not an arcane language of its own".
>>
>> I'd love to see that grow to:
>>
>> "Express regular expressions as objects, or mix and match objects with that
>> arcane mini language we all love or loathe".
>>
>> Hen
>>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
I do not have time to dig into this one ATM but I'd like to give my 2c.
Does this project introduce a new RE-like language or is it an API wrapper
for REs? It sounds like it is both.
A project like this I could see in Commons if the project was split into an
API module and modules for different pattern matching languages, where the
standard Java RE would be the reference example. Naomi (I love the name
BTW, someones wife or daughter?) would be another implementation module.
With both under its belt, the project would be on fairly solid footing
(granted I do not know Naomi). You could even imaging implementations that
would accept a JXPath or a SQL WHERE clause.
If the project is only meant to introduce a new RE-like language, then a
TLP would be probably more appropriate.
2c,
Gary
On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On 9/29/15 3:55 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > > Norman,
> > >
> > > Hello and welcome to Apache Commons.
> > >
> > > It's not clear to me why Naomi is better than regular expressions.
> > Pointing
> > > to Javadocs is not the best way to get traction.
> > >
> > > Your project would be better served by having some documentation on
> your
> > > front page with an example driven tutorial.
> > >
> > > Is Naomi faster than REs?
> > >
> > > What can I do in Naomi that REs can't do? And vice-versa.
> > >
> > > Examples of this on your front page would help you at least get folks
> to
> > > consider learning a brand new way of doing things...
> >
> > +1
> > The code in SimpleExamples starts to get to this. Looks interesting
> > and powerful. Either here or on the github readme you should take a
> > stab at explaining a little more how hard problems using regex get
> > easier with naomi, illustrated with some simple examples. Then
> > maybe with help from community members here, you can develop some
> > overview / getting started docs that help people get into the code.
> >
>
> +1.
>
> Reading SimpleExamples, my summary would be a boilerplate description of
> "It replaces the arcane regular expression language with an API". It
> reminds me of command line argument parsers. Perl had/has a great regular
> expression like command line argument parser, but it was cryptic and you
> either loved it or hated it. Then along came Commons CLI, args4j and all
> the others, providing a more OO/procedural API instead of its own mini
> language. Not as 'powerful' (in that you had to type more), but simpler (in
> that you didn't have to learn a new lingo and didn't have to juggle
> multiple languages inside one context (a source file)).
>
> I definitely need that user manual. It's hard, with a brain trained on
> regular expressions, to read 'Pattern greek3=new CharSequencePattern("?")'
> and realize (I think) that it means a literal ? character. It's also the
> primary way it'll be successful. You need that educational path that
> explains what a ExplicitCharClass is for, rather than randomly clicking on
> javadoc :)
>
> There'll also be much debate to be had I suspect. Is "a-e" too complex,
> compared to "abcde" or "a","e". Which parts of regex are worth supporting,
> vs not. Can I mix bits of regexp with bits of Naomi? new
> ExplicitCharClass("a-eg-p").
>
> Random.... I'd like the idea of varargs for automatic and'ing. ie:
>
> new ExplicitCharClass("a-p", "!f") [and is a not char class too
> complex?].
>
> Continuing on my summary, as I peruse the code a little more, I'd go with:
>
> "Build a regular expression via an API, not an arcane language of its own".
>
> I'd love to see that grow to:
>
> "Express regular expressions as objects, or mix and match objects with that
> arcane mini language we all love or loathe".
>
> Hen
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory