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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com> on 2023/07/14 23:06:58 UTC

Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

All -

I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be 
from me. It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes, it's 
still not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.

When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email 
servers, but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So from 
outlook.com, through some unsecured email server, then to my server.

I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like "if it 
appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my email 
server," block it. I don't necessarily think this is a job for SA, but 
if there's a rule I can tweak or a setting I can change, I'm all ears.

Thanks,
Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.eu>.
Grant Taylor via users skrev den 2023-07-17 23:25:
> On 7/16/23 5:57 PM, Benny Pedersen wrote:
>> why accept local envelope SENDER domains on port 25 ?
> 
> Do you subscribe to any mailing lists that don't rewrite the sender?

what ?

Return-Path: <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>

i recieve verp return path with i don't unverp here, this would be my 
mistake if i did this

> Thus your mail server would receive messages that you sent to the
> mailing list as your SENDING domain on port 25 inbound from the world.

provide an example on this please

i just protect forged senders if its my domain, learn to live with it

> That's just the first example of why this -- let's go with --
> workaround -- I'm being polite -- will work most, but not all of the
> time.

first example on not agree ?

ask your own mailhoster if thay do verp or not

> This starts to become a problem when you have multiple servers working
> cooperatively and communicating over port 25.  --  I remember tell of
> having email cascade through multiple Exchange servers for various
> questionable reasons.
> 
>> its safe to reject them
> I would not bet on it.

your own problem to solve


Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/17/23 6:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> because we have 2023 and in the last decade everybod with a brain was 
> using spf and sender-spoofing-rejection fro envelopes

I wish that was the case.

There was a recommendation on mailop less than a week ago that people 
only set up SPF records to appease Google and the person recommending 
this actively discouraged doing any filtering on SPF.

IMHO there are too many people not utilizing SPF / 
sender-spoofing-rejection for envelopes.

> we can agree that fools are doing foolish things

Can we agree that Google states that DKIM is sufficient to send email to 
them?

> and? this idiotic nitpicking leads nowhere and in the real world SPF is 
> way easier to setup and maintain

I've seen too many people nay saying / lamenting / poo pooing SPF. 
People on mailing lists like mailop / and various IETF mailing lists.

In the last month, of 2023, I've seen multiple people suggest:
  - that SPF should not be done
  - that you should publish a record but not filter on SPF
  - to publish questionable / soft SPF records; "~all" / "?all", or 
$DEITY forbid "+all"
  - ignore the result of the SPF test and filter on something else

> but that's not the topic
> 
> the topic is you pretend mailing lists are using subsribers 
> envelope-from in 2023

I'm not pretending.  I have seen mailing lists in the last year send 
messages using subscribers email address in the RFC5321.MailFrom 
envelope address.  -  I don't have any examples handy.

> oh - they have  been changed - guess why!

I know why the ones that have changed have done so.  But there are still 
a small number that haven't yet changed.

> the topic is you pretend mailing lists are using subsribers 
> envelope-from in 2023

Believe me or don't.  I still see a small number of mailing lists 
sending messages with subscribers addresses as the RFC5321.MailFrom in 2023.

These types of messages will be filtered by the recommendation to reject 
any local recipient address as the RFC5321.MailFrom envelope address 
mentioned earlier in thread.

> for a mail you send today it's irrelevant what was state of play in 2010

I'm talking about 2023, not 2010.

I don't remember which thread on which mailing list, but within the last 
week I saw multiple people saying that services doing forwarding should 
not rewrite sender addresses and that it was the downstream recipient's 
system's fault for rejecting the message for -- what they considered to 
be -- silly things like SPF failure.

Yes, it is 2023 and yes there are people / mailing lists / MTAs / 
organizations trying -- and largely failing -- to re-send messages using 
the inbound RFC5321.MailFrom envelope address.

I say this so that people can make an informed decision.  Despite all 
the recommendations to the contrary, people still run with scissors in 
hand and run at the pool.  Very bad ideas still happen.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/17/23 4:49 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> Alias expansion does this
> 
> is not a mailing list

What definition are you using for a mailing list?

Do you consider Majordomo to be a mailing list?

Because as far as I'm concerned, alias expansion in the MTA is where 
mailing lists originated.

> in the real world i was subsribed the past 15-20 years to at least 30 
> mailing-lists

That's all?

I still have email for more than 200 different mailing lists that I've 
been subscribed to over the last 20 years.

> * not a single one used the senders envelope - period

I've seen way too many use the sender's envelope.  Thankfully it's not 
nearly as common in the last decade as it was before.

> * we have 2023 - period

> * you can't send to gmailif you don't have SPF - period

I've had SPF for much longer than Gmail wanted it or DKIM.

But it is my understanding that you can send to Gmail with just DKIM.

I hope that we can agree that simply having an SPF record isn't 
necessarily the same as using SPF; "ip4:0/0" and / or "+all" isn't 
really having SPF.

> and yes i get sick an tired from customers don't hosting mail on our 
> servers with complaints of rejected mails to gmail users quoting the 
> following:
> 
> host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.133.26] said:
> 550-5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the
> 550-5.7.26 sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender must
> 550-5.7.26 authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message,
> 550-5.7.26 DKIM checks did not pass and SPF check for

There you go; "at least one of SPF or DKIM".  So by Google's own 
message, you can send to them without SPF /if/ you have DKIM.

> in the past 15 years?
> name them!

I don't remember the exact mailing lists, it was 5-10 years ago.  They 
have since changed.

It was multiple lists with an organization that I think should have 
known better.  The IETF comes to mind.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/17/23 4:29 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> no single mailing-list on this planet does this - period

Can we agree to disagree?

Maybe no /contemporary/ mailing list.  But there have been -- and I 
contend still are -- LOTS of mailing lists that did / do this very thing.

.forward does this.
Alias expansion does this.
Mailman 2.x used to do this by default.

I've seen multiple mailing lists sate that they will unsubscribe people 
if they send email from a domain with strict SPF settings because they 
refuse to deal with altering the RFC5321.MailFrom envelope address.

You only need to look as far as mailing lists getting tripped by SPF.

If the mailing lists weren't re-using the RFC5321.MailFrom from the 
incoming message in the message that they send out, there wouldn't be a 
problem.  Yet there have been many GB of email written about this very 
problem.

> DMARC/DKIM are problematic for mailing-lists but 
> envelope-ender/spf/spoofing-protecting is a no-brainer

I take it that you are in favor of the mailing list sending outgoing 
messages using an RFC5321.MailFrom envelope sender that is different 
than the the incoming message's RFC5321.MailFrom envelope sender.

Before VERP and SPF it was very common for mailing lists to send 
outgoing messages with the same RFC5321.MailFrom as the incoming message 
had.

> it's time to understand the difference between from-header and 
> envelope-sender or for the sake of god stop operating public mailservers 
> at all

Yet there are people that don't know the difference.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/16/23 5:57 PM, Benny Pedersen wrote:
> why accept local envelope SENDER domains on port 25 ?

Do you subscribe to any mailing lists that don't rewrite the sender? 
Thus your mail server would receive messages that you sent to the 
mailing list as your SENDING domain on port 25 inbound from the world.

That's just the first example of why this -- let's go with -- workaround 
-- I'm being polite -- will work most, but not all of the time.

This starts to become a problem when you have multiple servers working 
cooperatively and communicating over port 25.  --  I remember tell of 
having email cascade through multiple Exchange servers for various 
questionable reasons.

> its safe to reject them

I would not bet on it.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.eu>.
Thomas Cameron skrev den 2023-07-17 17:54:
> On 7/16/23 17:57, Benny Pedersen wrote:
>> back to basic:
>> 
>> why accept local envelope SENDER domains on port 25 ?
>> 
>> its safe to reject them
>> 
>> its not a question on spf or stupid srs rewrites
> 
> That's actually a great point. So you're saying to tell sendmail to
> reject emails purporting to come from me if they come from another
> mail server?
> 
> Got a pointer to documentation on how to do that? I'm all ears.

sorry using postfix here, but same can be done with sendmail, i just 
don't know how :)

in postfix i have postgresql data for virtual_mailbox_maps so it knows 
with mail to accept

if this is used to check forged senders in port 25 you can safely reject 
this forged senders

remember to use virtual_alias_maps aswell so it does not accept anything 
local on port 25 as envelope sender, should be rejected if its known 
local recipient

this is same as just use spf, but in postfix its done without using spf, 
if spf have include: it unsafe to reject based on spf

with postfix maps its safe

sorry no guides from me, if you can change from sendmail to postfix 
please do, so there will be more help to solve it




Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uh...@fantomas.sk>.
>On 7/16/23 17:57, Benny Pedersen wrote:
>>back to basic:
>>
>>why accept local envelope SENDER domains on port 25 ?
>>
>>its safe to reject them
>>
>>its not a question on spf or stupid srs rewrites

On 17.07.23 10:54, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>That's actually a great point. So you're saying to tell sendmail to 
>reject emails purporting to come from me if they come from another 
>mail server?
>
>Got a pointer to documentation on how to do that? I'm all ears.

when I used sendmail, I set up access file that rejected From:fantomas.sk 
but my local IP address was allowed from using it, "Connect:127.0.0.1 OK"

just define access database for sendmail

-- 
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uhlar@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
I intend to live forever - so far so good.

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
On 7/17/23 11:03, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> -----------------
>
> for rejecting spoofed envelopes nothing easier than that
>
> you need to have a full list of addresses you receive mail anyways, so 
> any message with one of those addresses without authentication can be 
> safely rejected
>
> main.cf smtpd_recipient_restrictions:
> check_sender_access proxy:hash:/etc/postfix/spoofing_protection.cf
>
> [root@mail-gw:/etc/postfix]$ head spoofing_protection.cf
> yourlocaladdress1 REJECT Sender Spoofed
> yourlocaladdress2 REJECT Sender Spoofed
> ..............

Many thanks. I'll figure out how to do this with sendmail, since that's 
what I use (yeah, I'm old).

Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
On 7/16/23 17:57, Benny Pedersen wrote:
> back to basic:
>
> why accept local envelope SENDER domains on port 25 ?
>
> its safe to reject them
>
> its not a question on spf or stupid srs rewrites

That's actually a great point. So you're saying to tell sendmail to 
reject emails purporting to come from me if they come from another mail 
server?

Got a pointer to documentation on how to do that? I'm all ears.

Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.eu>.
Loren Wilton skrev den 2023-07-17 00:29:
>> header __FROM_THOMAS_1 From =~
> /<thomas\.cameron\@camerontech\.(?:com)>/i
> 
> You can simplify this. The parenthesized grouping was only necessary
> when there was more than one possible string, in my case .com and
> .net. Since you only have .com you can remove the (:? and ) and make
> the regex a little more efficient:
> 
>     > header __FROM_THOMAS_1 From =~
> /<thomas\.cameron\@camerontech\.com>/i

back to basic:

why accept local envelope SENDER domains on port 25 ?

its safe to reject them

its not a question on spf or stupid srs rewrites




Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Loren Wilton <lw...@earthlink.net>.
> header __FROM_THOMAS_1 From =~ /<thomas\.cameron\@camerontech\.(?:com)>/i 

You can simplify this. The parenthesized grouping was only necessary when there was more than one possible string, in my case .com and .net. Since you only have .com you can remove the (:? and ) and make the regex a little more efficient:

    > header __FROM_THOMAS_1 From =~ /<thomas\.cameron\@camerontech\.com>/i 

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Loren Wilton <lw...@earthlink.net>.
> Am I correct? Sorry if I'm being dense. I'm just a sysadmin, not a developer, so I'm not super clear on how macros and expansions work in perl.

You have the concepts right. I'd try the rules you posted and see if they seem to be producing correct results. You can run a spam thru SA with the -t switch and see which rules hit, and hopefully the NOT_FROM_ rule will hit. Send yourself a test mail and see that it doesn't hit. If that all works it is time to add the rules for the family. If it doesn't work, look at how the From header is formatted in the mail you sent to yourself.

        Loren

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
On 7/15/23 23:40, Loren Wilton wrote:
> 
> > I assume this just needs to go in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf, 
> right? Or do I need to do separate stanzas for each domain?
> If you want this to work for all users, yes. If you have per-user 
> rules enabled, then it could go in user_prefs for that user.
> The rules I posted assumed one sender user@org.xxx, whth a known first 
> and last name.
> If you have multiple personalities, then you have multiple "me's": 
> user1@org.xxx, user2@org.xxx, and so on, then you needs to probably 
> duplicate the rule set for each user. Probably all of the users have 
> different first and last names. I'd probably change the meta rule name 
> from NOT_FROM_ME to NOT_FROM_USER1, NOT_FROM_USER2, etc.
> If you have one "me" but multiple accounts for that person, then 
> probably all of the accounts have the same first and last name. In 
> that case things could be simplified a bit.
> Does that help or just add to the confusion?
Thanks, Loren. It helps, I think - but I'm pretty new to using custom 
rules, so my understanding may be wrong. Since I use only one email 
address, I should probably set this up in local.cf like this:

#
# Ok, catch 'from me' when it isn't

header __FROM_THOMAS_1 From =~ /<thomas\.cameron\@camerontech\.(?:com)>/i
header __FROM_THOMAS_2 From =~ /\"Thomas Cameron\" 
<thomas\.cameron\@camerontech\.com>/
header __FROM_THOMAS_3 From =~ /Thomas Cameron 
<thomas\.cameron\@camerontech\.com>/
meta NOT_FROM_THOMAS __FROM_THOMAS_1 && !(__FROM_THOMAS_2 || 
__FROM_THOMAS_3)
score NOT_FROM_THOMAS 10
describe NOT_FROM_THOMAS Spammer faking the mail from me!

# End of custom rule for Thomas

Then, for my wife and kids, the same thing but with their email 
addresses and domains.

Am I correct? Sorry if I'm being dense. I'm just a sysadmin, not a 
developer, so I'm not super clear on how macros and expansions work in perl.

-- 
Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Loren Wilton <lw...@earthlink.net>.
> I assume this just needs to go in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf, right? Or do I need to do separate stanzas for each domain? 

If you want this to work for all users, yes. If you have per-user rules enabled, then it could go in user_prefs for that user.

The rules I posted assumed one sender user@org.xxx, whth a known first and last name.

If you have multiple personalities, then you have multiple "me's": user1@org.xxx, user2@org.xxx, and so on, then you needs to probably duplicate the rule set for each user. Probably all of the users have different first and last names. I'd probably change the meta rule name from NOT_FROM_ME to NOT_FROM_USER1, NOT_FROM_USER2, etc.

If you have one "me" but multiple accounts for that person, then probably all of the accounts have the same first and last name. In that case things could be simplified a bit.


Does that help or just add to the confusion?

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
On 20230715 20:20:03, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> On 7/14/23 23:59, Loren Wilton wrote:
>>> I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be from 
>>> me. It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes, it's still 
>>> not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.
>>>
>>> When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email servers, 
>>> but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So from outlook.com, 
>>> through some unsecured email server, then to my server.
>>
>> SA can't block this trash by itself, but if something post the SA invocation 
>> can look at the headers you might be able to block it. You can certainly mark 
>> it as spam.
>> For instance:
>>
>> #
>> # Ok, catch 'from me' when it isn't
>>
>> header __FROM_ME_1 From =~ /<me\@myhost\.(?:net|com)>/i
>> header __FROM_ME_2 From =~ /\"First Last\" <me\@myhost\.net>/
>> header __FROM_ME_3 From =~ /First Last <me\@myhost\.net>/
>> meta NOT_FROM_ME __FROM_ME_1 && !(__FROM_ME_2 || __FROM_ME_3)
>> score NOT_FROM_ME 10
>> describe NOT_FROM_ME Spammer faking the mail from me!
>>
>> Mind the backslash on the quotes and at sign. Depending on versions of things 
>> these are necessary, and don't hurt if they are not necessary.
>
> Forgive my ignorance, I haven't really played with custom rules before. Are 
> the entries like /<me\@myhost\.(?:net|com)>/i meant to edited for my actual 
> email address and domain, or does "me" and "@myhost" get expanded somehow? I 
> actually use sendmail for bunch of domains on my mail servers, and I want to 
> make sure this will work for all those domains.
>
> I assume this just needs to go in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf, right? Or 
> do I need to do separate stanzas for each domain?
>
> Thomas


Edit your username for "me", and your hostname plus most of its domain for "my 
host" and probably you can change .net to match your TLD. And "first last" would 
be your first name and last name as appears in emails.

I do it basically the same way Loren does. You are creating a rule or rules to 
match your legitimate email address. That is the _FROM_ME_n stuff. Then you are 
creating a meta rule that looks for email that claims to be from your raw email 
address that does not have the correct formats for your outgoing email. If it 
has your raw address but lacks your name components it fires off a score of 10. 
The oddity at the end of the first rule is something I treat differently but the 
concept is the change. Legitimate user accounts at Earthlink all end with .net. 
So if it ends in .com it is automatically a dumb spam. My rules are a little 
different. But the concept is the same.

{^_^}

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
On 7/14/23 23:59, Loren Wilton wrote:
>> I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be 
>> from me. It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes, 
>> it's still not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.
>>
>> When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email 
>> servers, but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So 
>> from outlook.com, through some unsecured email server, then to my 
>> server.
>
> SA can't block this trash by itself, but if something post the SA 
> invocation can look at the headers you might be able to block it. You 
> can certainly mark it as spam.
> For instance:
>
> #
> # Ok, catch 'from me' when it isn't
>
> header __FROM_ME_1 From =~ /<me\@myhost\.(?:net|com)>/i
> header __FROM_ME_2 From =~ /\"First Last\" <me\@myhost\.net>/
> header __FROM_ME_3 From =~ /First Last <me\@myhost\.net>/
> meta NOT_FROM_ME __FROM_ME_1 && !(__FROM_ME_2 || __FROM_ME_3)
> score NOT_FROM_ME 10
> describe NOT_FROM_ME Spammer faking the mail from me!
>
> Mind the backslash on the quotes and at sign. Depending on versions of 
> things these are necessary, and don't hurt if they are not necessary.

Forgive my ignorance, I haven't really played with custom rules before. 
Are the entries like /<me\@myhost\.(?:net|com)>/i meant to edited for my 
actual email address and domain, or does "me" and "@myhost" get expanded 
somehow? I actually use sendmail for bunch of domains on my mail 
servers, and I want to make sure this will work for all those domains.

I assume this just needs to go in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf, 
right? Or do I need to do separate stanzas for each domain?

Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Loren Wilton <lw...@earthlink.net>.
> I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be from 
> me. It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes, it's still 
> not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.
>
> When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email servers, 
> but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So from 
> outlook.com, through some unsecured email server, then to my server.

SA can't block this trash by itself, but if something post the SA invocation 
can look at the headers you might be able to block it. You can certainly 
mark it as spam.
For instance:

#
# Ok, catch 'from me' when it isn't

header __FROM_ME_1 From =~ /<me\@myhost\.(?:net|com)>/i
header __FROM_ME_2 From =~ /\"First Last\" <me\@myhost\.net>/
header __FROM_ME_3 From =~ /First Last <me\@myhost\.net>/
meta NOT_FROM_ME __FROM_ME_1 && !(__FROM_ME_2 || __FROM_ME_3)
score NOT_FROM_ME 10
describe NOT_FROM_ME Spammer faking the mail from me!

Mind the backslash on the quotes and at sign. Depending on versions of 
things these are necessary, and don't hurt if they are not necessary.


Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Cathryn Mataga <ca...@junglevision.com>.
Oh well, this was my own goof then I guess. I run sendmail, and I'm a 
programmer, but I don't do email for a living, so I only learn things as 
I pick them up slowly.

On 7/15/2023 5:05 PM, Noel Butler wrote:
>
> On 16/07/2023 04:44, Cathryn Mataga wrote:
>
>>   Someone has figured a way to use  gmail to spam from their servers, 
>> looks like to me.
>>
> huh? They have been doing this for YEARS, google don't care because 
> they get to scan (inspect) all the mail, even in transit, that's not 
> "tinfoil hat" rubbish either since they long admit it.
> it's why anyone who whitelists gmail is a fool (much like those who 
> use gmail in the first place), we in fact add a positive score for all 
> google/gmail connections
> -- 
>
> Regards,
> Noel Butler
>
> This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged 
> information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject 
> to copyright protected under international law. You may not 
> disseminate this message without the authors express written authority 
> to do so.   If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the 
> sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments 
> immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not 
> waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.
>
>

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Noel Butler <no...@ausics.net>.
On 17/07/2023 20:00, Benny Pedersen wrote:

> Noel Butler skrev den 2023-07-16 02:05:
> 
>> it's why anyone who whitelists gmail is a fool (much like those who
>> use gmail in the first place), we in fact add a positive score for all
>> google/gmail connections
> 
> you still have bigger signature then google/gmail on public maillists

and I'm supposed to care because why, did you forget to take your meds 
again Benny...

-- 
Regards,
Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged 
information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to 
copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate 
this message without the authors express written authority to do so.   
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then 
delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. 
Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost 
by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.eu>.
Noel Butler skrev den 2023-07-16 02:05:

> it's why anyone who whitelists gmail is a fool (much like those who
> use gmail in the first place), we in fact add a positive score for all
> google/gmail connections

you still have bigger signature then google/gmail on public maillists

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Noel Butler <no...@ausics.net>.
On 16/07/2023 04:44, Cathryn Mataga wrote:

> Someone has figured a way to use  gmail to spam from their servers, 
> looks like to me.

huh? They have been doing this for YEARS, google don't care because they 
get to scan (inspect) all the mail, even in transit, that's not "tinfoil 
hat" rubbish either since they long admit it.

it's why anyone who whitelists gmail is a fool (much like those who use 
gmail in the first place), we in fact add a positive score for all 
google/gmail connections

-- 
Regards,
Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged 
information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to 
copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate 
this message without the authors express written authority to do so.   
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then 
delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. 
Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost 
by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Cathryn Mataga <ca...@junglevision.com>.
I just fixed a problem like this. I checked my headers, and the email 
was spf approved from google. I had included google so I could get some 
mail forwarded by them back awhile ago, but it's not worth getting this 
spam.  Someone has figured a way to use gmail to spam from their 
servers, looks like to me.

  spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com;

I removed google from my spf line, and it's helped.

On 7/14/2023 4:06 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> All -
>
> I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be 
> from me. It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes, 
> it's still not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.
>
> When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email 
> servers, but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So 
> from outlook.com, through some unsecured email server, then to my server.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like "if 
> it appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my email 
> server," block it. I don't necessarily think this is a job for SA, but 
> if there's a rule I can tweak or a setting I can change, I'm all ears.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.eu>.
Thomas Cameron skrev den 2023-07-15 01:06:
> All -
> 
> I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be
> from me.

an what tells you its not you ? :)

> It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes,
> it's still not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.

lets say spammers knows spamassassin ?

> When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email
> servers, but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So
> from outlook.com, through some unsecured email server, then to my
> server.

forged senders is normal with freemail domains servers, google and all 
friends abuse spf limits of none, as one just say +all or very big ip in 
good ips pr domain, abuse of spf includes as it will help spammers do 
more innocent things, that you want to see, it have no ends at all

> I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like "if
> it appears to come from me,

define me first ?

> but it's not actually coming from my email
> server,"

for me its unclear in what way with that statement

> block it. I don't necessarily think this is a job for SA, but
> if there's a rule I can tweak or a setting I can change, I'm all ears.

define local recipient first, this list is aswell deny list for local 
senders to reject on port 25

is there more help needed ?

if its header from: just dont do anymore then dkim check it


Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
On 7/16/23 00:41, Matija Nalis wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 10:04:18PM -0500, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>> <dkim>pass</dkim>
>> <spf>fail</spf>
>> </policy_evaluated>
> So, it fails SPF, but DKIM passes. Meaning, your mail would pass
> normally modern servers which check both.
>
> If you do not want to receive such status messages, you should update
> your DMARC records (currently _dmarc.camerontech.com indicates you
> want to receive BOTH aggregate "rua=" and forensic "ruf=" reports;
> and that you want to receive status updates when the message would've
> passed normally via "fo=1")

Thanks. I set it up to send me everything it could, to see if I had done 
anything wrong. I will amend my DNS records as you suggested.

>> So it seems like my emails are being quarantined when I send them to mailing
>> lists, even this one.
> What? No. At least not in this report you shared. You seem to be
> confusing "<policy_published>" section (which is just a dump of DNS
> which that server sees) with actual "<result>"s leading to final
> "<disposition>" of "none" (which is good, as opposed to "reject" or
> "quarantine" which would not be).

Ah, cool, thanks for the clarification! I saw "quarantined" and thought 
my emails were not getting through.

> You probably might want to use some nice frontend to visualizing
> DMARC results, if reading XML and SPF/DKIM/DMARC protocol internals
> is not second nature for you.
> e.g. https://github.com/topics/dmarc-reports

I will definitely check that out, thanks!

>>> +1 for encouraging mailing list operators to get with the times.
>>>
>>> You can also do as Robert suggests and use a separate (sub)domain for
>>> mailing lists with different SPF settings thereon.
>> It's not so much mailing list operators I'm worried about. It's that, when
>> my email goes through a listserv mailing list, if I define hard failures, I
>> am worried that my email isn't going to get to list members. That's not the
>> mailing list admin, it's the admins of the list members' mail servers. If
>> I'm not understanding something, please feel free to clarify.
> If mailing list is employing SRS, mail reaching final recipients
> would not be failing SPF checkes, as envelope sender (i.e. SMTP's
> "MAIL FROM: <xxxx>") would be rewritten as the mail is coming from
> mailing list domain and their servers (as it would), not yours.
>
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme
>
> Only if the mailing list remailing server leaves original (your)
> envelope sender (which it shouldn't be doing, yet often does), would
> you get such SPF problems. So, SPF problem is solvable from mailing
> list server side, if its admins are willing.
>
> Also, if your mails are signed by DKIM, and mailing list software is
> not rewriting signed headers nor body (as it shouldn't, but some
> mailing lists try to add annoying text to the bottom of messages like
> "to unsubscribe, do xyz", thus breaking both DKIM, S/MIME and PGP
> signatures), then your mail should pass DKIM checks too.
> So that problem is avoidable on mailing list server side too.

Thank you so much, I am reading these articles now! I really appreciate 
your not busting my chops for not knowing this.

-- 
Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/16/23 12:41 AM, Matija Nalis wrote:
> So, it fails SPF, but DKIM passes. Meaning, your mail would pass 
> normally modern servers which check both.

That is predicated on the receiving server(s) not rejecting the message 
for SPF failure.

> You probably might want to use some nice frontend to visualizing 
> DMARC results, if reading XML and SPF/DKIM/DMARC protocol internals 
> is not second nature for you. e.g. 
> https://github.com/topics/dmarc-reports

Thank you for sharing the pointer to that front end.

> If mailing list is employing SRS, mail reaching final recipients 
> would not be failing SPF checkes, as envelope sender (i.e. SMTP's 
> "MAIL FROM: <xxxx>") would be rewritten as the mail is coming from 
> mailing list domain and their servers (as it would), not yours.
> 
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme

+1 for SRS (like behavior)

> Only if the mailing list remailing server leaves original (your) 
> envelope sender (which it shouldn't be doing, yet often does), would 
> you get such SPF problems. So, SPF problem is solvable from mailing 
> list server side, if its admins are willing.

I've found that many, if not most, but definitely not all, mailing list 
administrators are willing to make changes if they are aware of the 
problem, know how to make the change, and have access to make said change.

Sadly, there are a few mailing lists that I'm on that are quite aware of 
the problem but have decided to refuse to make the change and are in my 
opinion acting like ostriches and sticking their head in the sand.

> Also, if your mails are signed by DKIM, and mailing list software is 
> not rewriting signed headers nor body (as it shouldn't, but some 
> mailing lists try to add annoying text to the bottom of messages 
> like "to unsubscribe, do xyz", thus breaking both DKIM, S/MIME and 
> PGP signatures), then your mail should pass DKIM checks too. So that 
> problem is avoidable on mailing list server side too.

Yep.  Mailing lists and other similar forwarding services are the places 
that have the most influence of if things work well or not for the most 
people.

Should each and every sending subscriber make changes to their 
independent systems?  Or should the singular mailing list make changes 
in one place and help everybody?

Simple energy conservation seems to indicate changes in fewest places is 
better.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Matija Nalis <mn...@voyager.hr>.
On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 10:04:18PM -0500, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> <dkim>pass</dkim>
> <spf>fail</spf>
> </policy_evaluated>

So, it fails SPF, but DKIM passes. Meaning, your mail would pass
normally modern servers which check both. 

If you do not want to receive such status messages, you should update
your DMARC records (currently _dmarc.camerontech.com indicates you
want to receive BOTH aggregate "rua=" and forensic "ruf=" reports;
and that you want to receive status updates when the message would've
passed normally via "fo=1")

> So it seems like my emails are being quarantined when I send them to mailing
> lists, even this one.

What? No. At least not in this report you shared. You seem to be
confusing "<policy_published>" section (which is just a dump of DNS
which that server sees) with actual "<result>"s leading to final
"<disposition>" of "none" (which is good, as opposed to "reject" or
"quarantine" which would not be).

You probably might want to use some nice frontend to visualizing
DMARC results, if reading XML and SPF/DKIM/DMARC protocol internals
is not second nature for you. 
e.g. https://github.com/topics/dmarc-reports

> > +1 for encouraging mailing list operators to get with the times.
> > 
> > You can also do as Robert suggests and use a separate (sub)domain for
> > mailing lists with different SPF settings thereon.
> 
> It's not so much mailing list operators I'm worried about. It's that, when
> my email goes through a listserv mailing list, if I define hard failures, I
> am worried that my email isn't going to get to list members. That's not the
> mailing list admin, it's the admins of the list members' mail servers. If
> I'm not understanding something, please feel free to clarify.

If mailing list is employing SRS, mail reaching final recipients
would not be failing SPF checkes, as envelope sender (i.e. SMTP's
"MAIL FROM: <xxxx>") would be rewritten as the mail is coming from 
mailing list domain and their servers (as it would), not yours.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme

Only if the mailing list remailing server leaves original (your)
envelope sender (which it shouldn't be doing, yet often does), would
you get such SPF problems. So, SPF problem is solvable from mailing
list server side, if its admins are willing.

Also, if your mails are signed by DKIM, and mailing list software is
not rewriting signed headers nor body (as it shouldn't, but some
mailing lists try to add annoying text to the bottom of messages like
"to unsubscribe, do xyz", thus breaking both DKIM, S/MIME and PGP
signatures), then your mail should pass DKIM checks too. 
So that problem is avoidable on mailing list server side too.

-- 
Opinions above are GNU-copylefted.

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.eu>.
Matija Nalis skrev den 2023-07-17 06:13:
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 01:37:39PM +0100, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> Another way to do this is to build either a mail archive or a database
>> of addresses you've sent mail to and simply add a positive score to 
>> mail
>> from anybody who you've sent mail to: this needs the following bits of
>> code:
> 
> So, something like AWL and TxRep SpamAssassin plugins do?

in amavisd use penpal, job done



Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Matija Nalis <mn...@voyager.hr>.
On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 01:37:39PM +0100, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Another way to do this is to build either a mail archive or a database
> of addresses you've sent mail to and simply add a positive score to mail
> from anybody who you've sent mail to: this needs the following bits of
> code:

So, something like AWL and TxRep SpamAssassin plugins do?

-- 
Opinions above are GNU-copylefted.

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Martin Gregorie <ma...@gregorie.org>.
On Sat, 2023-07-15 at 22:04 -0500, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> 
> On 7/14/23 20:30, Grant Taylor via users wrote:
> > On 7/14/23 6:06 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> > > I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like
> > > "if 
> > > it appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my 
> > > email server," block it.
> > 
> > SPF with hard fail in your own domain /and/ filtering that respects 
> > SPF hard fail will almost certainly stop this like a switch.
> 
> I'd love to do this, but see below. I get TONS of warnings every time
> I 
> send email to lists (even this list) that make me hesitant to do hard
> fails.
> 
Another way to do this is to build either a mail archive or a database
of addresses you've sent mail to and simply add a positive score to mail
from anybody who you've sent mail to: this needs the following bits of
code:

I use PostgreSQL as the databaee and Postfix as my local MTA, which I
needed anyway to distribute internal mail on my local LAN.

Capturing outgoing mail destination addresses: I added a Postfix BCC
directive that sends a copy of outgoing mail to a local mailbox. Once a
day this mailbox is scanned for destination addresses: any new ones are
added to the database.

Scanning incoming mail: I wrote an SA extension to look up sender
addresses of incoming mail in the 'outbound mail address database' and
an SA rule to trigger it: this adds a negative score to mail containing
any FROM address(es) that I've previously sent mail to. The SA extension
is a Perl module that looks up the sender address on all incoming mail. 

Since the OP is a programmer, this should be easily within his
capabilities: 

- he needs to know some Perl to write the SA extension module (the
  O'Reilly Camel book is a well-organised guide to Perl and/or he's
  welcome to a copy of my Perl module) 
.
- Almost any database will do for this job (even a flat text file if he
  uses awk to update it and awk or grep to search it) though a proper
  database such as Postgresql or MariaDB would be faster of the sent
  address list is large, but he needs to know some fairly basic SQL to 
  add addresses to it and to do the lookups.


Martin


Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/16/23 9:37 AM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> It does clarify, ...

:-)

> ... but unfortunately, it doesn't alleviate my concerns.

:-/

> I totally understand why SPF et al. are good ideas.

:-)

> But I swear, I feel 
> like they introduce darned near as many problems as they "solve."

I question the veracity of that statement.

Specifically is SPF /introducing/ a *new* problem?  Or is SPF 
/highlighting/ an *existing* problem?

It sounds to me like:
1)  you really do want to detect (and prevent) other servers from 
sending email w/ an RFC5321.MailFrom address in your domain.
2)  you want messages send to be able to be resent by specific other 
servers.

IM(ns)HO #2 is in conflict with, if not diametrically opposed to, #1.

If other servers, like mailing lists, didn't send messages using your 
RFC5321.MailFrom address, then this wouldn't be a problem.

Who's really doing the wrong thing here?  You specifying you want 
stringent email security or someone else pretending to be you?

> But that's another rant. Thanks for your explanations.

Maybe.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
On 7/16/23 00:29, Grant Taylor via users wrote:
>>
> Does that help clarify (my opinion)? 

It does clarify, but unfortunately, it doesn't alleviate my concerns.

I totally understand why SPF et al. are good ideas. But I swear, I feel 
like they introduce darned near as many problems as they "solve."

But that's another rant. Thanks for your explanations.

-- 
Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/15/23 10:04 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> I'd love to do this, but see below. I get TONS of warnings every
> time I send email to lists (even this list) that make me hesitant to
> do hard fails.
I understand and appreciate what you're describing.

> I do, as well, but mailing lists outside of my sphere of influence.
> I can't very well dictate to mailing list admins that they change the
> way they do things. Even the earlier email I sent to this list
> generated a bunch of warning messages. One of many:

You can't dictate.  But you can ask.

I'd almost guarantee that you wouldn't be the first bringing this to 
their attention.

> It's not so much mailing list operators I'm worried about. It's
> that, when my email goes through a listserv mailing list, if I define
> hard failures, I am worried that my email isn't going to get to list
> members.

Yes, that is a risk.

But ...

> That's not the mailing list admin, it's the admins of the
> list members' mail servers.

... if you stop and think about it, SPF is doing exactly what it's 
designed to do.  The servers that receive messages from the list are 
detecting your domain in the 5322.MailFrom, identifying that the sending 
IP isn't authorized, and acting accordingly.

I'd argue that's exactly what is supposed to happen.

So who's doing something wrong?  The receiving mail server who's acting 
according to your published wishes or the server that is sending 
contrary to your published wishes?

> If I'm not understanding something, please feel free to clarify.
Does that help clarify (my opinion)?



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
On 7/14/23 20:30, Grant Taylor via users wrote:
> On 7/14/23 6:06 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>> I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like "if 
>> it appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my 
>> email server," block it.
>
> SPF with hard fail in your own domain /and/ filtering that respects 
> SPF hard fail will almost certainly stop this like a switch.

I'd love to do this, but see below. I get TONS of warnings every time I 
send email to lists (even this list) that make me hesitant to do hard fails.

>
> On 7/14/23 7:28 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>> But because I use several mailing lists, I do not have a hard fail 
>> set up. I get SO many notices when I send email to lists that I'm 
>> really worried about defining hard failures/rejections.
>
> I consider that to be a failure on the mailing list's part.
>
> Mailing lists can't successfully operate like they did 25+ years ago.

I do, as well, but mailing lists outside of my sphere of influence. I 
can't very well dictate to mailing list admins that they change the way 
they do things. Even the earlier email I sent to this list generated a 
bunch of warning messages. One of many:

<feedback>
<report_metadata>
<org_name>nimitz.pl</org_name>
<email>postmaster@nimitz.pl</email>
<report_id>camerontech.com-1689379200-1689465599@nimitz.pl</report_id>
<date_range>
<begin>1689379200</begin>
<end>1689465599</end>
</date_range>
</report_metadata>
<policy_published>
<domain>camerontech.com</domain>
<adkim>r</adkim>
<aspf>r</aspf>
<p>quarantine</p>
<sp>quarantine</sp>
<pct>100</pct>
</policy_published>
<record>
<row>
<source_ip>95.216.194.37</source_ip>
<count>1</count>
<policy_evaluated>
<disposition>none</disposition>
<dkim>pass</dkim>
<spf>fail</spf>
</policy_evaluated>
</row>
<identifiers>
<header_from>camerontech.com</header_from>
</identifiers>
<auth_results>
<spf>
<domain>spamassassin.apache.org</domain>
<result>pass</result>
</spf>
<dkim>
<domain>camerontech.com</domain>
<result>pass</result>
</dkim>
</auth_results>
</record>
</feedback>

So it seems like my emails are being quarantined when I send them to 
mailing lists, even this one.

>> But I'll play around with what you suggested.
>
> +10 for SPF.
>
> +1 for encouraging mailing list operators to get with the times.
>
> You can also do as Robert suggests and use a separate (sub)domain for 
> mailing lists with different SPF settings thereon.

It's not so much mailing list operators I'm worried about. It's that, 
when my email goes through a listserv mailing list, if I define hard 
failures, I am worried that my email isn't going to get to list members. 
That's not the mailing list admin, it's the admins of the list members' 
mail servers. If I'm not understanding something, please feel free to 
clarify.

Thomas

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/15/23 2:00 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> SPF don't care about the visible From-header

I agree that SPF doesn't (SHOULDN'T) care about the RFC522.From header.

However my experience has been that the vast majority of messages that 
are spoofing the RFC522.From header are also spoofing the 
RFC521.MailFrom which is squarely in SPF's domain.

Think of it as -- based on my experience -- a VERY STRONG but indirect 
correlation.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Grant Taylor via users <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>.
On 7/14/23 6:06 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like "if 
> it appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my 
> email server," block it.

SPF with hard fail in your own domain /and/ filtering that respects SPF 
hard fail will almost certainly stop this like a switch.

On 7/14/23 7:28 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> But because I use several mailing lists, I do not have a hard fail 
> set up. I get SO many notices when I send email to lists that I'm really 
> worried about defining hard failures/rejections.

I consider that to be a failure on the mailing list's part.

Mailing lists can't successfully operate like they did 25+ years ago.

> But I'll play around with what you suggested.

+10 for SPF.

+1 for encouraging mailing list operators to get with the times.

You can also do as Robert suggests and use a separate (sub)domain for 
mailing lists with different SPF settings thereon.



Grant. . . .

Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Robert Senger <ro...@lists.microscopium.de>.
I've set up a subdomain lists.mydomain.de (and with regex expressions
as local part, to have unique email address per list, forgot to do that
here...) with soft spf and dmarc policies and that I only use for
mailing lists. Then I can use hard failure spf and dkim policies for
the domain mydomain.de itself.

Robert

Am Freitag, dem 14.07.2023 um 19:28 -0500 schrieb Thomas Cameron:
> This kinda raises an important issue. I already have SPF/DMARC/DKIM
> set 
> up. But because I use several mailing lists, I do not have a hard
> fail 
> set up. I get SO many notices when I send email to lists that I'm
> really 
> worried about defining hard failures/rejections.
> 
> But I'll play around with what you suggested.
> 
> Thomas
> 
> On 7/14/23 18:58, David B Funk wrote:
> > 
> > Assuming you own/manage your infrastructure it should be 
> > straight-forward.
> > 
> > Create SFP records for your domain & SMTP server, set them to
> > either 
> > soft or hard fail mode.
> > If you can, also set up DKIM signing of your outgoing mail.
> > 
> > Then create rules that looks for your from address in a message and
> > a 
> > meta which says "if from me & DKIM-fail/SPF-fail hit it hard"
> > 
> > If you can work with the SPF hard fail you will also help to
> > improve 
> > your net reputation as spammers will have a harder time trying to
> > "Joe 
> > Job" you.
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 14 Jul 2023, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> > 
> > > All -
> > > 
> > > I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to
> > > be 
> > > from me. It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to
> > > Bayes, 
> > > it's still not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.
> > > 
> > > When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email 
> > > servers, but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com.
> > > So 
> > > from outlook.com, through some unsecured email server, then to my
> > > server.
> > > 
> > > I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like
> > > "if 
> > > it appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my 
> > > email server," block it. I don't necessarily think this is a job
> > > for 
> > > SA, but if there's a rule I can tweak or a setting I can change,
> > > I'm 
> > > all ears.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Thomas
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 

-- 
Robert Senger




Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by Thomas Cameron <th...@camerontech.com>.
This kinda raises an important issue. I already have SPF/DMARC/DKIM set 
up. But because I use several mailing lists, I do not have a hard fail 
set up. I get SO many notices when I send email to lists that I'm really 
worried about defining hard failures/rejections.

But I'll play around with what you suggested.

Thomas

On 7/14/23 18:58, David B Funk wrote:
>
> Assuming you own/manage your infrastructure it should be 
> straight-forward.
>
> Create SFP records for your domain & SMTP server, set them to either 
> soft or hard fail mode.
> If you can, also set up DKIM signing of your outgoing mail.
>
> Then create rules that looks for your from address in a message and a 
> meta which says "if from me & DKIM-fail/SPF-fail hit it hard"
>
> If you can work with the SPF hard fail you will also help to improve 
> your net reputation as spammers will have a harder time trying to "Joe 
> Job" you.
>
>
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2023, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>
>> All -
>>
>> I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be 
>> from me. It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes, 
>> it's still not hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.
>>
>> When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email 
>> servers, but many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So 
>> from outlook.com, through some unsecured email server, then to my 
>> server.
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like "if 
>> it appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my 
>> email server," block it. I don't necessarily think this is a job for 
>> SA, but if there's a rule I can tweak or a setting I can change, I'm 
>> all ears.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>


Re: Sudden surge in spam appearing to come from my email address

Posted by David B Funk <db...@engineering.uiowa.edu>.
Assuming you own/manage your infrastructure it should be straight-forward.

Create SFP records for your domain & SMTP server, set them to either soft or 
hard fail mode.
If you can, also set up DKIM signing of your outgoing mail.

Then create rules that looks for your from address in a message and a meta 
which says "if from me & DKIM-fail/SPF-fail hit it hard"

If you can work with the SPF hard fail you will also help to improve your net 
reputation as spammers will have a harder time trying to "Joe Job" you.


On Fri, 14 Jul 2023, Thomas Cameron wrote:

> All -
>
> I am suddenly getting hammered by a BUNCH of spam that appears to be from me. 
> It scores low, and even though I keep feeding it to Bayes, it's still not 
> hitting the threshold to be marked as spam.
>
> When I check the headers, it's coming from multiple random email servers, but 
> many appear to originate from hotmail/outlook.com. So from outlook.com, 
> through some unsecured email server, then to my server.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to block this stuff. Something like "if it 
> appears to come from me, but it's not actually coming from my email server," 
> block it. I don't necessarily think this is a job for SA, but if there's a 
> rule I can tweak or a setting I can change, I'm all ears.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
>

-- 
Dave Funk                               University of Iowa
<dbfunk (at) engineering.uiowa.edu>     College of Engineering
319/335-5751   FAX: 319/384-0549        1256 Seamans Center, 103 S Capitol St.
Sys_admin/Postmaster/cell_admin         Iowa City, IA 52242-1527
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
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