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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Philip Prindeville <ph...@redfish-solutions.com> on 2007/04/19 21:26:26 UTC
OT: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
Hi.
This isn't so much a technical question as a philosophical one.
We're tired of dealing with Yahoo! which seems to either
(a) have the poorest trained "abuse" staff of any large email
service provider on the planet, or (b) they have a malicious
corporate culture of flat-out denying any email originated
from their networks, no matter how compelling the evidence.
I'm out of ideas, so I thought I'd turn to the group.
I recently had a message with the following headers:
Return-Path: <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
Received: from smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.253])
by mail.redfish-solutions.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id l2V1kkqG009611
for <mo...@redfish-solutions.com>; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:46:52 -0600
Received: (qmail 65061 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2007 01:46:46 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (info40@zxcvrasfgasdf.com@4.79.181.240 with plain)
by smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2007 01:46:46 -0000
X-YMail-OSG: 4SuIk60VM1mrOGBAKk3UQSIGXvsb4QmL0rwvi97gE9mIpViIsNyNpLnGy2BQbmYSCoUdeywpxW25RWzcK6ECZbX37ayshFDwIXNvRKxXqW3hqhkRMIw-
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 01:46:45 -0400
From: "Monster.com" <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
Reply-To: "Monster.com" <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <20070331161766.13312@monster.com
To: Philip Prindeville <mo...@redfish-solutions.com>
Subject: Money-Investment
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="----------"
If someone can prove to me that this message didn't come from
Yahoo!, I will eat my shorts.
But until then, my next course of action seems to be blacklisting
Yahoo!, because I'm tired of their not investigating messages that
pretty obviously seem to be coming from them.
Any collective wisdom?
-Philip
Re: OT: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
Posted by Gene Heskett <ge...@verizon.net>.
On Thursday 19 April 2007, Philip Prindeville wrote:
>Hi.
>
>This isn't so much a technical question as a philosophical one.
>We're tired of dealing with Yahoo! which seems to either
>(a) have the poorest trained "abuse" staff of any large email
>service provider on the planet, or (b) they have a malicious
>corporate culture of flat-out denying any email originated
>from their networks, no matter how compelling the evidence.
>
>I'm out of ideas, so I thought I'd turn to the group.
>
>I recently had a message with the following headers:
>
>Return-Path: <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
>Received: from smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com
> (smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.253]) by
> mail.redfish-solutions.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id l2V1kkqG009611 for
> <mo...@redfish-solutions.com>; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:46:52 -0600
> Received: (qmail 65061 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2007 01:46:46 -0000
> Received: from unknown (HELO localhost)
> (info40@zxcvrasfgasdf.com@4.79.181.240 with plain) by
> smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2007 01:46:46 -0000
> X-YMail-OSG:
> 4SuIk60VM1mrOGBAKk3UQSIGXvsb4QmL0rwvi97gE9mIpViIsNyNpLnGy2BQbmYSCoUdeywpxW2
>5RWzcK6ECZbX37ayshFDwIXNvRKxXqW3hqhkRMIw- Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 01:46:45
> -0400
>From: "Monster.com" <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
>Reply-To: "Monster.com" <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>Message-ID: <20070331161766.13312@monster.com
>To: Philip Prindeville <mo...@redfish-solutions.com>
>Subject: Money-Investment
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="----------"
>
>
>
>If someone can prove to me that this message didn't come from
>Yahoo!, I will eat my shorts.
>
>But until then, my next course of action seems to be blacklisting
>Yahoo!, because I'm tired of their not investigating messages that
>pretty obviously seem to be coming from them.
>
>Any collective wisdom?
>
>-Philip
I tried that in a procmail recipe, hitting about 5 of their server boxes.
Killed traffic for 6 or so of the mailing lists I'm on so I eventually nuked
them.
Solution? Damnifiknow. Suggestions, Kozinsky style mail bombs to yahoo via
uspo, whathaveyou come to mind. In my NSHO, they're bigger jerks than AOL in
their heyday.
--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do
it.
-- Gandhi
Re: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
Posted by Gene Heskett <ge...@verizon.net>.
On Thursday 19 April 2007, Richard Frovarp wrote:
>Larry Ludwig wrote:
>> Us too. I'm sick of yahoo with their free email service allowing spam
>> through.
>>
>> Today yahoo's network is #1 in spam:
>>
>> http://www.senderbase.org/
>>
>> If a wide group starts blacklisting them maybe they would get their act
>> together and fix the problem.
>>
>> -L
>
>The question is how much of that is Yahoo's free email service and how
>much of that is SBC Yahoo the DSL ISP.
Do they share machines? Here, the X-Originating-IP: is the giveaway, and
killing by that address (there are about 6 of them) kills most of
the 'groups' lists.
--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can read.
-- Mark Twain
Re: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo! - Solution?
Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.org>.
On Fri, April 20, 2007 01:25, Marc Perkel wrote:
> For what it's worth, what would be nice is if yahoo had some kind of
> automated complaint mailbox so that if complaints about a particular
> account were coming in at a high rate it would disable the account. Same
> for Hotmail, Gmail, and other free mailers.
>
> If automated complaint features were standard we could fix a lot of spam.
just make a sender_bcc *@yahoo.com abuse@yahoo.com :-)
if you want to complain send complete header and body no attachments to this
email
abuse@ is working atleast for there yahoogroups maillists, don't know if there
is problems with dialup spammers :(
--
This message was sent using 100% recycled spam mails.
Re: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo! - Solution?
Posted by Marc Perkel <ma...@perkel.com>.
Kelson wrote:
> Aggh. I think Thunderbird 2 changed the menu layout a bit. I hit
> "Reply to Sender" instead of "Reply to All."
>
> Marc Perkel wrote:
>> For what it's worth, what would be nice is if yahoo had some kind of
>> automated complaint mailbox so that if complaints about a particular
>> account were coming in at a high rate it would disable the account.
>> Same for Hotmail, Gmail, and other free mailers.
>>
>> If automated complaint features were standard we could fix a lot of
>> spam.
>
> Sure... until spammer-pwned botnets start sending hundreds of complaints
> about the addresses of spamfighters, getting their ISPs to disable their
> accounts automatically.
>
> Sorry, that one's just too easy to abuse.
>
But perhaps with domain keys or some other encoding trick they could
verify that the forwarded emails were authentic. I think it would be doable.
Re: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo! - Solution?
Posted by Kelson <ke...@speed.net>.
Aggh. I think Thunderbird 2 changed the menu layout a bit. I hit
"Reply to Sender" instead of "Reply to All."
Marc Perkel wrote:
> For what it's worth, what would be nice is if yahoo had some kind of
> automated complaint mailbox so that if complaints about a particular
> account were coming in at a high rate it would disable the account. Same
> for Hotmail, Gmail, and other free mailers.
>
> If automated complaint features were standard we could fix a lot of spam.
Sure... until spammer-pwned botnets start sending hundreds of complaints
about the addresses of spamfighters, getting their ISPs to disable their
accounts automatically.
Sorry, that one's just too easy to abuse.
--
Kelson Vibber
SpeedGate Communications <www.speed.net>
Re: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo! - Solution?
Posted by Marc Perkel <ma...@perkel.com>.
For what it's worth, what would be nice is if yahoo had some kind of
automated complaint mailbox so that if complaints about a particular
account were coming in at a high rate it would disable the account. Same
for Hotmail, Gmail, and other free mailers.
If automated complaint features were standard we could fix a lot of spam.
RE: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
Posted by Dan Barker <db...@visioncomm.net>.
I just sent myself a Yahoo email, and it relayed thru: 68.142.236.156.
dig -x sez: web58303.mail.re3.yahoo.com.
Larry's spam was via 68.142.200.253.
dig -x sez: smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com.
I wonder if there's any way to find out all the various names each system
uses. Then we could downgrade some yahoo.com (SBC/DSL) sources and not hurt
yahoo.com (web mail) sources.
>>From a truly "it's not my problem" point of view, if Yahoo abuse ONLY
handles web mail servers, that SBC/DSL email actually did not originate on
their server. Poor customer support, for sure, but we should be able to
figure out the magic. Maybe as simple as "mud" = "spam"
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Frovarp [mailto:Richard.Frovarp@sendit.nodak.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:51 PM
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
Larry Ludwig wrote:
> Us too. I'm sick of yahoo with their free email service allowing spam
> through.
>
> Today yahoo's network is #1 in spam:
>
> http://www.senderbase.org/
>
> If a wide group starts blacklisting them maybe they would get their act
> together and fix the problem.
>
> -L
The question is how much of that is Yahoo's free email service and how
much of that is SBC Yahoo the DSL ISP.
Re: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
Posted by Richard Frovarp <Ri...@sendit.nodak.edu>.
Larry Ludwig wrote:
> Us too. I'm sick of yahoo with their free email service allowing spam
> through.
>
> Today yahoo's network is #1 in spam:
>
> http://www.senderbase.org/
>
> If a wide group starts blacklisting them maybe they would get their act
> together and fix the problem.
>
> -L
The question is how much of that is Yahoo's free email service and how
much of that is SBC Yahoo the DSL ISP.
RE: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
Posted by Larry Ludwig <la...@gmail.com>.
Us too. I'm sick of yahoo with their free email service allowing spam
through.
Today yahoo's network is #1 in spam:
http://www.senderbase.org/
If a wide group starts blacklisting them maybe they would get their act
together and fix the problem.
-L
--
Larry Ludwig
Empowering Media
1-866-792-0489 x600
Have you visited our customer service blog?
http://www.supportem.com/blog/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Prindeville [mailto:philipp_subx@redfish-solutions.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:26 PM
> To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
> Subject: OT: Dealing w/ poor network citizens like Yahoo!
>
> Hi.
>
> This isn't so much a technical question as a philosophical one.
> We're tired of dealing with Yahoo! which seems to either
> (a) have the poorest trained "abuse" staff of any large email
> service provider on the planet, or (b) they have a malicious
> corporate culture of flat-out denying any email originated
> from their networks, no matter how compelling the evidence.
>
> I'm out of ideas, so I thought I'd turn to the group.
>
> I recently had a message with the following headers:
>
> Return-Path: <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
> Received: from smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com
> (smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.253])
> by mail.redfish-solutions.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP
> id l2V1kkqG009611
> for <mo...@redfish-solutions.com>; Fri, 30 Mar
> 2007 19:46:52 -0600
> Received: (qmail 65061 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2007
> 01:46:46 -0000
> Received: from unknown (HELO localhost)
> (info40@zxcvrasfgasdf.com@4.79.181.240 with plain)
> by smtp105.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2007
> 01:46:46 -0000
> X-YMail-OSG:
> 4SuIk60VM1mrOGBAKk3UQSIGXvsb4QmL0rwvi97gE9mIpViIsNyNpLnGy2BQbm
> YSCoUdeywpxW25RWzcK6ECZbX37ayshFDwIXNvRKxXqW3hqhkRMIw-
> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 01:46:45 -0400
> From: "Monster.com" <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
> Reply-To: "Monster.com" <in...@invest-and-finance.com>
> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> Message-ID: <20070331161766.13312@monster.com
> To: Philip Prindeville <mo...@redfish-solutions.com>
> Subject: Money-Investment
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="----------"
>
>
>
> If someone can prove to me that this message didn't come from
> Yahoo!, I will eat my shorts.
>
> But until then, my next course of action seems to be blacklisting
> Yahoo!, because I'm tired of their not investigating messages that
> pretty obviously seem to be coming from them.
>
> Any collective wisdom?
>
> -Philip
>
>