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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> on 2015/01/24 18:56:17 UTC
Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
I see five short-term (say, something that must be either done or put
towards completion by end of February) priorities for OpenOffice as a
project. They overlap, and we, especially the PMC, need to agree on how
to order them, otherwise we risk pulling in different directions and
mutually blocking the initiatives from others.
1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined,
role: being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache;
he/she can do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still
continue with the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties).
2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to
drive the project forward (so an "active" approach rather than the "I
don't have time, but someone should..." approach which is not working).
3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community (the PMC, not the
Chair, steers the project; so people who work must be in the PMC and
people in the PMC should confirm they are still interested in being there).
4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other
projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache.
5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our
users!). This has a number of significant subtasks and preliminary tasks
(Release manager, digital signing...) but it would be pointless to
address them now.
I'm asking for consensus, especially from PMC members, that we can carry
forward these 5 actions in the order I used above. I know you might have
different priorities, but if we manage to get these 5 items tabled we
can get rid of the "I see other priorities" blocker. Note that, if we
act responsibly and we are determined, we could start a new item (of the
5) every week, so by the end of February we can find an answer or a
roadmap for everything listed above.
Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now
(and please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we
have a large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 24/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> 1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined,
> role: being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache;
> he/she can do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still
> continue with the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties).
Seeing that things are moving very fast now, it's clear to assume that
we are doing #1 first. Good.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pescetti@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 9:26 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
>
> Marcus wrote:
> > Am 01/24/2015 06:56 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> >> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice
> as part of a
> >> larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of
> collaboration with other
> >> projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache.
> > For me this is no thing that can be solved short-term.
> Furthermore, we
> > should first solve the internal things to be able/ready to
> think about
> > external affairs.
>
> I'll clarify it once again. My proposal means exactly that
> people do not
> bring up these issues while we discuss the previous ones in
> the list, to
> avoid long discussions that ultimately block the project.
>
> > It's a partly "yes". ;-)
> > My order would be #1, #2, #3, #5 (however some can/should be done in
> > parallel) and when that all is done #4.
>
> Yes, #5 (release) would be discussed in parallel. This is not
> an issue.
> The issue is if this becomes a blocker. I want everybody to be clear
> that if we have consensus here we won't be able to accept objections
> like "Before electing a new Chair we must release OpenOffice 4.1.2".
>
> Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now
> seeing a certain agreement on:
> 1) Election a new PMC Chair ...
> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to
> drive the project forward ...
> Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ...
> Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice
> as part of
> a larger ecosystem ...
> Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ...
>
> The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What
> matters is that
> nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2.
>
> Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take
> the first
> steps?
OK for me
Note:
I'm not a PMC member (I mention this because you wrote: "I'm asking for consensus, Especially from PMC members ...")
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/25/2015 09:26 AM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first
> steps?
To make it short: Yes.
Marcus
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RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Yes, #1 and #2 in order. Then we'll deal with ##3-5 (whatever the ordering)
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pescetti@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 00:26
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
[ ... ]
Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now
seeing a certain agreement on:
1) Election a new PMC Chair ...
2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to
drive the project forward ...
Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ...
Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of
a larger ecosystem ...
Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ...
The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What matters is that
nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2.
Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first
steps?
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Mechtilde <oo...@mechtilde.de>.
Am 25.01.2015 um 09:26 schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first
> steps?
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
Yes we should start
Kind regards
--
Mechtilde Stehmann
## Apache OpenOffice.org
## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windoes
## PGP encryption welcome
## Key-ID 0x141AAD7F
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de>.
Hi all,
Andrea Pescetti schrieb:
> Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now
> seeing a certain agreement on:
> 1) Election a new PMC Chair ...
> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to
> drive the project forward ...
> Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ...
> Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of
> a larger ecosystem ...
> Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ...
>
> The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What matters is that
> nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2.
I agree on that order.
Regina
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Marcus wrote:
> Am 01/24/2015 06:56 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
>> larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other
>> projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache.
> For me this is no thing that can be solved short-term. Furthermore, we
> should first solve the internal things to be able/ready to think about
> external affairs.
I'll clarify it once again. My proposal means exactly that people do not
bring up these issues while we discuss the previous ones in the list, to
avoid long discussions that ultimately block the project.
> It's a partly "yes". ;-)
> My order would be #1, #2, #3, #5 (however some can/should be done in
> parallel) and when that all is done #4.
Yes, #5 (release) would be discussed in parallel. This is not an issue.
The issue is if this becomes a blocker. I want everybody to be clear
that if we have consensus here we won't be able to accept objections
like "Before electing a new Chair we must release OpenOffice 4.1.2".
Taking into account the different opinions expressed so far, I'm now
seeing a certain agreement on:
1) Election a new PMC Chair ...
2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to
drive the project forward ...
Later) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ...
Later) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of
a larger ecosystem ...
Later) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ...
The "Later" items need not be done in this order. What matters is that
nobody should push their completion as priorities over #1 and #2.
Can we agree on this simplified version, so that we can take the first
steps?
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 01/24/2015 06:56 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>
> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
> larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other
> projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache.
For me this is no thing that can be solved short-term. Furthermore, we
should first solve the internal things to be able/ready to think about
external affairs.
> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our
> users!). This has a number of significant subtasks and preliminary tasks
> (Release manager, digital signing...) but it would be pointless to
> address them now.
Looks like an easy/fast task. Actually I haven't seen any progress here
since weeks. So, even this doesn't look short-term.
> Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now
> (and please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we
> have a large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan.
It's a partly "yes". ;-)
My order would be #1, #2, #3, #5 (however some can/should be done in
parallel) and when that all is done #4.
Marcus
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RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <or...@apache.org>.
Because of its tangible nature, I would move #5 (AOO 4.1.2to #3), sliding #3 and #4 down to #4 and #5.
I think releasing AOO 4.1.2 is tangible work. I can see steps on Re-alignment with Community and External Organization moving along at the same time, and Community Re-alignment might matter for AOO 4.1.2, but I think #2 is a bigger deal.
Basically, I don't see why there is linearity so much after #1 and #2, which are critical. AOO 4.1.2 and Community Re-alignment can clearly work together. External organization is a bit longer term and rather independent initially, if I understand what Andrea is looking for there.
Summary: Interchange #4 and #5 as Andrea suggests, or bring #5 all the way up to #3 (assuming that there are already resources to define and complete AOO 4.1.2 among available committers). Either way, #1 and #2 are prerequisites.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pescetti@apache.org]
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:31
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Kay Schenk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> 1) Election a new PMC Chair ...
>> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive
>> the project forward ...
>> 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ...
>> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
>> larger ecosystem ...
>> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ...
>> Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and
>> please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a
>> large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan.
>>
> For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought
> I suspect #5 will be longer than February.
> No opinion on #3.
> Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in
> any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this
> as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help.
What I'm suggesting is exactly to avoid discussing ideas on everything
at the same time to ultimately get nothing. So I am saying: before
discussing any ideas for #4, let's get give priority to #1, #2 and #3.
And of course one week is not enough for the release; things will have
to proceed in parallel, but the toxic behavior we must avoid it that
someone blocks another discussion by saying "No, we should make a
release before that".
Back to the point: do you have anything against the idea that we discuss
things in this order? I'm fine with swapping #4 and #5 for example. But
if we don't have agreement on the order of the first 3, we won't be able
to move forward.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Jan 24, 2015 11:30 AM, "Andrea Pescetti" <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Kay Schenk wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>
>>> 1) Election a new PMC Chair ...
>>>
>>> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to
drive
>>> the project forward ...
>>> 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ...
>>>
>>> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
>>> larger ecosystem ...
>>> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ...
>>>
>>> Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now
(and
>>> please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a
>>> large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan.
>>>
>> For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term,
thought
>> I suspect #5 will be longer than February.
>> No opinion on #3.
>> Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in
>> any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see
this
>> as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help.
>
>
> What I'm suggesting is exactly to avoid discussing ideas on everything at
the same time to ultimately get nothing. So I am saying: before discussing
any ideas for #4, let's get give priority to #1, #2 and #3. And of course
one week is not enough for the release; things will have to proceed in
parallel, but the toxic behavior we must avoid it that someone blocks
another discussion by saying "No, we should make a release before that".
>
> Back to the point: do you have anything against the idea that we discuss
things in this order?
No. I'm good with the order.
I'm fine with swapping #4 and #5 for example. But if we don't have
agreement on the order of the first 3, we won't be able to move forward.
>
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
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>
Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Kay Schenk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> 1) Election a new PMC Chair ...
>> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive
>> the project forward ...
>> 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community ...
>> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
>> larger ecosystem ...
>> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 ...
>> Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and
>> please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a
>> large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan.
>>
> For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought
> I suspect #5 will be longer than February.
> No opinion on #3.
> Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in
> any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this
> as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help.
What I'm suggesting is exactly to avoid discussing ideas on everything
at the same time to ultimately get nothing. So I am saying: before
discussing any ideas for #4, let's get give priority to #1, #2 and #3.
And of course one week is not enough for the release; things will have
to proceed in parallel, but the toxic behavior we must avoid it that
someone blocks another discussion by saying "No, we should make a
release before that".
Back to the point: do you have anything against the idea that we discuss
things in this order? I'm fine with swapping #4 and #5 for example. But
if we don't have agreement on the order of the first 3, we won't be able
to move forward.
Regards,
Andrea.
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RE: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <or...@apache.org>.
+1 on the 5 points from Andrea (non-binding, [;<).
Concerning ##3-4, I agree with Kay these are agreements on direction and perhaps identification of the desired state. I can see identification of initial steps, rather than static, completed activities in February.
It might be useful to express what the desired state is, sort of the way the Apache Project Maturity Model identifies what one would observe when the model is honored at a steady state of a project. See <https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ApacheProjectMaturityModel>.
-- in reply to --
From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:35
To: OOo Apache
Subject: Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
wrote:
[ ... ]
> 1) Election a new PMC Chair
[ ... ]
> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive
> the project forward
[ ... ]
> 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community
[ ... ]
> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
> larger ecosystem
[ ... ]
> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our
> users!).
[ ... ]
>
For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought
I suspect #5 will be longer than February.
No opinion on #3.
Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in
any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this
as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"An old horse for a long, hard road,
a young pony for a quick ride."
-- Texas Bix Bender
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Re: Short-term priorities for OpenOffice
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
wrote:
> I see five short-term (say, something that must be either done or put
> towards completion by end of February) priorities for OpenOffice as a
> project. They overlap, and we, especially the PMC, need to agree on how to
> order them, otherwise we risk pulling in different directions and mutually
> blocking the initiatives from others.
>
> 1) Election a new PMC Chair (the Chair has one, and clearly defined, role:
> being the liaison officer between the OpenOffice PMC and Apache; he/she can
> do much more, and I have been doing much more and I'll still continue with
> the rest; but this is not part of the Chair duties).
>
> 2) Internal reorganization: people say what they are going to do to drive
> the project forward (so an "active" approach rather than the "I don't have
> time, but someone should..." approach which is not working).
>
> 3) Re-alignment between PMC and active community (the PMC, not the Chair,
> steers the project; so people who work must be in the PMC and people in the
> PMC should confirm they are still interested in being there).
>
> 4) External reorganization: decide how we see OpenOffice as part of a
> larger ecosystem, so what we can do in terms of collaboration with other
> projects that are from Apache or from outside Apache.
>
> 5) Release OpenOffice 4.1.2 (all of this must produce something for our
> users!). This has a number of significant subtasks and preliminary tasks
> (Release manager, digital signing...) but it would be pointless to address
> them now.
>
> I'm asking for consensus, especially from PMC members, that we can carry
> forward these 5 actions in the order I used above. I know you might have
> different priorities, but if we manage to get these 5 items tabled we can
> get rid of the "I see other priorities" blocker. Note that, if we act
> responsibly and we are determined, we could start a new item (of the 5)
> every week, so by the end of February we can find an answer or a roadmap
> for everything listed above.
>
> Do you agree with this scheduling? If it's a "no", please say it now (and
> please give an alternative, otherwise we can't move), but if we have a
> large majority of "yes" I'll move forward according to this plan.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
>
>
For me, #1, #2, and #5 seem tangible and do-able in the short term, thought
I suspect #5 will be longer than February.
No opinion on #3.
Until we address internal issues, does it make sense to think about #4 in
any serious way? I'm not sure of the extent of this one, and don't see this
as a short term goal. Maybe more information on ideas would help.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"An old horse for a long, hard road,
a young pony for a quick ride."
-- Texas Bix Bender