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Posted to dev@jackrabbit.apache.org by Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua> on 2008/01/31 23:19:32 UTC
Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
JCR api jar is missing in war distro of 1.4
Looks strange and causes problems for new users.
Is sere some impossible stupid copyright reason or it is just distribution bug?
--
SY, Alex Lukin
RIPE NIC HDL: LEXA1-RIPE
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua>.
Friday 01 February 2008 07:56:37 Thomas Mueller написав:
> Hi,
>
> What about a 'standalone' download of Jackrabbit that includes Jetty?
> Apache Continuum does this. The installation would be:
>
> - download jackrabbit-standalone.zip
> - expand it
> - double clock on run.sh / run.bat
> - a browser window is started automatically, or the URL is printed out
>
> For Windows users (I think still the majority) we could even have a
> simple installer (bases on NSIS, as used by Apache Tomcat).
>
> Regards,
> Thomas
That sounds good and people from eXo do exactly that way. (http://www.exoplatform.org/)
You may create separate standalone bundle to play with. But there's allmost nothing to play for just curious windows user.
I think that windows users with no or little java/tomcat expirience are not primary target audience.
Developers are people you ought to think of. And each developer need:
1) quick start gude and example app (raely quick!) to play with technology and decide to use it or not
2) examples and tutorials to go trough in a couple of days and be able to accomplish regular tasks
3) real good documentation on concepts, architecture and API to do real development based on technology
4) place where to go with questions (only this one works by now)
SY, Alex Lukin
RIPE NIC HDL: LEXA1-RIPE
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Esteban Franqueiro <es...@bea.com>.
> But yes, I hear you and good that you filed an issue for that. Anyone
> interested in making this happen should feel free to contribute in
> whatever capacity they like and can. Use cases, preferred installation
> methods, desired functionality, pointers to good examples, patches,
> prototype installation bundles, etc. would all be very helpful.
In the mean time, why not putting up a sign in the doc/download page saying "download jcr jar
from... and put it in the ... directory of Tomcat"? (if there's such a notice, sorry, I missed it
:( )
Regards,
Esteban Franqueiro
esteban.franqueiro@bea.com
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Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Feb 1, 2008 12:12 PM, Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua> wrote:
> > But perhaps we should just do this, and let the performance issues
> > sort themselves out. It's better to let features drive improvements
> > and bug fixes than vice versa.
>
> You must. No "perhaps" :)
The only things I really must do is pay taxes and eventually die. ;-)
But yes, I hear you and good that you filed an issue for that. Anyone
interested in making this happen should feel free to contribute in
whatever capacity they like and can. Use cases, preferred installation
methods, desired functionality, pointers to good examples, patches,
prototype installation bundles, etc. would all be very helpful.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua>.
Dear Jukka!
> Hi,
>
> On Feb 1, 2008 7:56 AM, Thomas Mueller <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What about a 'standalone' download of Jackrabbit that includes Jetty?
>
> That would be nice, and also well in line with the
> embedded->shared->standalone deployment scenarios.
>
I think that it is not a big deal to do such "quick start" bundles for deployment models 1,2,3.
It will be good for developers. I spent 2 days with right model 2 setup (may be I'm so stupid, who knows :) and I think a lot of people who
did not get it working in couple of hours just spit on the flor and gone away.
> One of the key reasons for not doing that so far is that we don't yet
> have production-ready JCR remoting options that would perform really
> well. JCR-RMI is stable and feature-rich but not very fast, and WebDAV
> remoting is still in the sandbox.
>
You'll never get it right without users' loopbak. That's catch 22.
> But perhaps we should just do this, and let the performance issues
> sort themselves out. It's better to let features drive improvements
> and bug fixes than vice versa.
>
You must. No "perhaps" :) If I where not interested very much in the technology academicaly, I'd never use it, belive me.
I think taht jackrabbit is great and wish you good luck! But ... agh! You know! :)
--
SY, Alex Lukin
RIPE NIC HDL: LEXA1-RIPE
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Feb 1, 2008 7:56 AM, Thomas Mueller <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What about a 'standalone' download of Jackrabbit that includes Jetty?
That would be nice, and also well in line with the
embedded->shared->standalone deployment scenarios.
One of the key reasons for not doing that so far is that we don't yet
have production-ready JCR remoting options that would perform really
well. JCR-RMI is stable and feature-rich but not very fast, and WebDAV
remoting is still in the sandbox.
But perhaps we should just do this, and let the performance issues
sort themselves out. It's better to let features drive improvements
and bug fixes than vice versa.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Thomas Mueller <th...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
What about a 'standalone' download of Jackrabbit that includes Jetty?
Apache Continuum does this. The installation would be:
- download jackrabbit-standalone.zip
- expand it
- double clock on run.sh / run.bat
- a browser window is started automatically, or the URL is printed out
For Windows users (I think still the majority) we could even have a
simple installer (bases on NSIS, as used by Apache Tomcat).
Regards,
Thomas
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Feb 1, 2008 12:44 AM, Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua> wrote:
> Could not agree with you. Academicaly you are 100% right but how many users will
> use war dist with jrc-1.0.jar already in tomcat's lib dir? And how many users will just
> say: "that thing does not work, bye!"
> This is common place for the project: Techical things allmost excellent, but user
> must be more then advanced level to jump over "entry barrier". Do you guys need
> users at all? :)
Good point, and something that we definitely need to improve on.
However, I'd rather avoid cutting corners when improving the
out-of-the-box experience with Jackrabbit. While we could bundle the
JCR API jar in the webapp (and we actually did that earlier), it would
only mean that people would just run into the same barrier a bit
later. And then we'd have a bigger problem at our hands, as you'd need
to cut the Jackrabbit war file open and customize it to make it work
properly in typical deployment scenarios.
But yeah, there's a lot of things we could do better on this front and
any ideas and contributions are welcome. I just don't believe in
short-term hacks as the way forward.
For example we might want to push for a Jackrabbit deployment who's
primary targets are web clients (HTML browsers, WebDAV, JSON, APP,
etc.) instead of other webapps on the server side. That model would
likely also be more interesting to people who just want to set up and
run a repository. In fact, this is pretty much what the incubating
Sling project is currently doing with their Launchpad concept.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua>.
Jukka,
Could not agree with you. Academicaly you are 100% right but how many users will use war dist
with jrc-1.0.jar already in tomcat's lib dir?
And how many users will just say: "that thing does not work, bye!"
This is common place for the project: Techical things allmost excellent, but user must be more then advanced level
to jump over "entry barrier". Do you guys need users at all? :)
> Hi,
>
> On Feb 1, 2008 12:19 AM, Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua> wrote:
> > JCR api jar is missing in war distro of 1.4
> > Looks strange and causes problems for new users.
> > Is sere some impossible stupid copyright reason or it is just
> > distribution bug?
>
> No. The reason for not putting the JCR API jar inside the webapp is
> that the API really belongs to a shared classloader so that more than
> one webapp can access the same repository.
>
> The preferred deployment model is for you to have the repository
> implementation in one webapp (or in a global JNDI configuration) and
> your client application in a separate webapp. This is not possible if
> the JCR API jar is bundled with the Jackrabbit webapp.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
--
SY, Alex Lukin
RIPE NIC HDL: LEXA1-RIPE
Re: Why there's no jcr-1.0.jar in 1.4 war dist?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Feb 1, 2008 12:19 AM, Alex Lukin <lu...@stu.cn.ua> wrote:
> JCR api jar is missing in war distro of 1.4
> Looks strange and causes problems for new users.
> Is sere some impossible stupid copyright reason or it is just distribution bug?
No. The reason for not putting the JCR API jar inside the webapp is
that the API really belongs to a shared classloader so that more than
one webapp can access the same repository.
The preferred deployment model is for you to have the repository
implementation in one webapp (or in a global JNDI configuration) and
your client application in a separate webapp. This is not possible if
the JCR API jar is bundled with the Jackrabbit webapp.
BR,
Jukka Zitting