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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> on 2018/04/20 07:48:33 UTC
IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Hi,
I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
used it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in
the hopes that it helps.
As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
* Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
trying to start a debugging session through Maven) but it has a
downside of poor performance.
* Specifically, the REPL loop for IntelliJ is much quicker than
Netbeans for Maven projects. Compilation and execution is almost
instanteous and I also don't recall ever waiting on updating the
Maven index.
* Their UX focuses more heavily on providing just-in-time
contextually-relevant information than Netbeans. The obvious example
is how their editor will show the value of variables during a
debugging session immediately before and after a line is executed.
They also do a nice job of hiding threads with similar stacktraces
so if (for example) I've got 100 idle worker threads, the thread
list they show is not cluttered with them. I like this a lot.
The final point I'm sure you already know: our UI is a lot more klunky
than theirs. I don't mean that their IDE is "better looking" but rather
that we have many long-standing UI bugs that are simply not present on
their end (clashing foreground/background colors making text hard to
read, viewport whose default size is too small, etc).
Anyway, that's it for now. I hope it helps.
Gili
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
So set up a Wiki page on the Apache NetBeans Wiki, create a table, list all
those features, assign an issue to each feature. If you have a different
proposal for how to tackle this (and it can’t be “I will wait another 3
months and then write another e-mail just like this one”), please suggest
it and implement it.
Gj
On Friday, April 20, 2018, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
> I follow the blog Posts of their Releases and I can say that they have a
> loooot more killer Features than NetBeans. Those killer Features are
> sometimes so small but they are so Handy. I can create 1000 Tickets for
> NetBeans (Yes a bit exaggerated but I think everyone knows that. And those
> People who went to IntelliJ, from NetBeans or Eclipse).
>
> There is one Feature for example which is maven related. The Thing, that
> you can convert a Java application to maven. It is not that big but it does
> a lot for you. It creates a pom file, the Folder structure and tries to
> copy/move the stuff into the right Folder/package.
>
> Yes, at the end, this is not correct often, beacuse sometimes you have to
> fix the paths etc. but it is a good starting Point first for developers,
> you wants Switch to maven from ant. This Feature is very Handy and I often
> use it. Unfortunately this is missing in NetBeans. And I can tell you a lot
> more about IntelliJ, because I compare NetBeans with IntelliJ or WebStorm
> or PHPStorm sometimes to check, how they handles it or whether they can
> handle it or not.
>
>
> It is not that NetBeans Needs to be the first/best DIE on planet, I think
> this fight is the same as with IE/Edge/Firefox against Chrome. Chrome is
> the best and most used one. It is more that NetBeans should be comparable
> with other big IDEs and atm, yes it is comparable but it lacks of Features,
> big and small Features that are still missing.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: cowwoc
> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 09:48
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>
> Hi,
>
> I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
> used it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in
> the hopes that it helps.
>
> As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
>
> * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> trying to start a debugging session through Maven) but it has a
> downside of poor performance.
> * Specifically, the REPL loop for IntelliJ is much quicker than
> Netbeans for Maven projects. Compilation and execution is almost
> instanteous and I also don't recall ever waiting on updating the
> Maven index.
> * Their UX focuses more heavily on providing just-in-time
> contextually-relevant information than Netbeans. The obvious example
> is how their editor will show the value of variables during a
> debugging session immediately before and after a line is executed.
> They also do a nice job of hiding threads with similar stacktraces
> so if (for example) I've got 100 idle worker threads, the thread
> list they show is not cluttered with them. I like this a lot.
>
> The final point I'm sure you already know: our UI is a lot more klunky
> than theirs. I don't mean that their IDE is "better looking" but rather
> that we have many long-standing UI bugs that are simply not present on
> their end (clashing foreground/background colors making text hard to
> read, viewport whose default size is too small, etc).
>
> Anyway, that's it for now. I hope it helps.
>
> Gili
>
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Attila Kelemen <at...@gmail.com>.
Hi Gonzalo,
I think you misunderstood my comment about Gradle support. I meant that
once NB 9 was completely released, I don't want to support previous NB
versions because I did a lot of refactoring, so adding a feature to both
branches is double the work but as is now, I add fixes to both branches
(when it makes sense). That said, I admitedly spend a lot less effort of
plugin development nowadays which is probably because it suits all my needs
(a lot better that Idea except for Gradle script support - pretty good in
Idea - but that would need Groovy improvement).
If you have any needs for the plugin, I would appreciate if you could
explain it in detail what feature you really miss (though if it is EE
related I probably won't spend effort on it)and how do you want it to
presented. Since usually the most difficult thing is to decide how some
feature should be presented (the UI) and how it should interact with other
features (and also backward compatibility ...).
Attila Kelemen
2018-04-20 10:40 GMT+02:00 Gonzalo Ortiz Jaureguizar <go...@gmail.com>:
> The features I miss the most (and the reason I started using IntelliJ) is
> better Gradle, Scala and (obviously) Kotlin support. There are some other
> problems related with indexing huge remote repos. There are some features I
> still miss from Netbean like:
>
> - It's excelent Maven support
> - The performance, which I find better on Netbeans).
> - The type based autocompletion. I'm sure IntelliJ has a way to do that,
> but I still not use to it.
> - The ability to *batch import* aka when you press control+alt+i on
> Netbeans and looks for imports you miss (On IntelliJ you have to move
> the
> cursor to the unimported class name, then press whatever key you use to
> autoimport and then repeat with all other class usages).
>
> If I remember correctly, the person who develops the Netbeans Gradle plugin
> decided to not release new versions of the plugin until Netbeans 9.0. I
> have less hopes on the scala and kotlin plugins :(
>
> 2018-04-20 10:28 GMT+02:00 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>:
>
> > I follow the blog Posts of their Releases and I can say that they have a
> > loooot more killer Features than NetBeans. Those killer Features are
> > sometimes so small but they are so Handy. I can create 1000 Tickets for
> > NetBeans (Yes a bit exaggerated but I think everyone knows that. And
> those
> > People who went to IntelliJ, from NetBeans or Eclipse).
> >
> > There is one Feature for example which is maven related. The Thing, that
> > you can convert a Java application to maven. It is not that big but it
> does
> > a lot for you. It creates a pom file, the Folder structure and tries to
> > copy/move the stuff into the right Folder/package.
> >
> > Yes, at the end, this is not correct often, beacuse sometimes you have to
> > fix the paths etc. but it is a good starting Point first for developers,
> > you wants Switch to maven from ant. This Feature is very Handy and I
> often
> > use it. Unfortunately this is missing in NetBeans. And I can tell you a
> lot
> > more about IntelliJ, because I compare NetBeans with IntelliJ or WebStorm
> > or PHPStorm sometimes to check, how they handles it or whether they can
> > handle it or not.
> >
> >
> > It is not that NetBeans Needs to be the first/best DIE on planet, I think
> > this fight is the same as with IE/Edge/Firefox against Chrome. Chrome is
> > the best and most used one. It is more that NetBeans should be comparable
> > with other big IDEs and atm, yes it is comparable but it lacks of
> Features,
> > big and small Features that are still missing.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > Von: cowwoc
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 09:48
> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Betreff: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
> > used it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in
> > the hopes that it helps.
> >
> > As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> > broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> > integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
> >
> > * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> > results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> > trying to start a debugging session through Maven) but it has a
> > downside of poor performance.
> > * Specifically, the REPL loop for IntelliJ is much quicker than
> > Netbeans for Maven projects. Compilation and execution is almost
> > instanteous and I also don't recall ever waiting on updating the
> > Maven index.
> > * Their UX focuses more heavily on providing just-in-time
> > contextually-relevant information than Netbeans. The obvious example
> > is how their editor will show the value of variables during a
> > debugging session immediately before and after a line is executed.
> > They also do a nice job of hiding threads with similar stacktraces
> > so if (for example) I've got 100 idle worker threads, the thread
> > list they show is not cluttered with them. I like this a lot.
> >
> > The final point I'm sure you already know: our UI is a lot more klunky
> > than theirs. I don't mean that their IDE is "better looking" but rather
> > that we have many long-standing UI bugs that are simply not present on
> > their end (clashing foreground/background colors making text hard to
> > read, viewport whose default size is too small, etc).
> >
> > Anyway, that's it for now. I hope it helps.
> >
> > Gili
> >
> >
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Gonzalo Ortiz Jaureguizar <go...@gmail.com>.
The features I miss the most (and the reason I started using IntelliJ) is
better Gradle, Scala and (obviously) Kotlin support. There are some other
problems related with indexing huge remote repos. There are some features I
still miss from Netbean like:
- It's excelent Maven support
- The performance, which I find better on Netbeans).
- The type based autocompletion. I'm sure IntelliJ has a way to do that,
but I still not use to it.
- The ability to *batch import* aka when you press control+alt+i on
Netbeans and looks for imports you miss (On IntelliJ you have to move the
cursor to the unimported class name, then press whatever key you use to
autoimport and then repeat with all other class usages).
If I remember correctly, the person who develops the Netbeans Gradle plugin
decided to not release new versions of the plugin until Netbeans 9.0. I
have less hopes on the scala and kotlin plugins :(
2018-04-20 10:28 GMT+02:00 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>:
> I follow the blog Posts of their Releases and I can say that they have a
> loooot more killer Features than NetBeans. Those killer Features are
> sometimes so small but they are so Handy. I can create 1000 Tickets for
> NetBeans (Yes a bit exaggerated but I think everyone knows that. And those
> People who went to IntelliJ, from NetBeans or Eclipse).
>
> There is one Feature for example which is maven related. The Thing, that
> you can convert a Java application to maven. It is not that big but it does
> a lot for you. It creates a pom file, the Folder structure and tries to
> copy/move the stuff into the right Folder/package.
>
> Yes, at the end, this is not correct often, beacuse sometimes you have to
> fix the paths etc. but it is a good starting Point first for developers,
> you wants Switch to maven from ant. This Feature is very Handy and I often
> use it. Unfortunately this is missing in NetBeans. And I can tell you a lot
> more about IntelliJ, because I compare NetBeans with IntelliJ or WebStorm
> or PHPStorm sometimes to check, how they handles it or whether they can
> handle it or not.
>
>
> It is not that NetBeans Needs to be the first/best DIE on planet, I think
> this fight is the same as with IE/Edge/Firefox against Chrome. Chrome is
> the best and most used one. It is more that NetBeans should be comparable
> with other big IDEs and atm, yes it is comparable but it lacks of Features,
> big and small Features that are still missing.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: cowwoc
> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 09:48
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>
> Hi,
>
> I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
> used it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in
> the hopes that it helps.
>
> As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
>
> * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> trying to start a debugging session through Maven) but it has a
> downside of poor performance.
> * Specifically, the REPL loop for IntelliJ is much quicker than
> Netbeans for Maven projects. Compilation and execution is almost
> instanteous and I also don't recall ever waiting on updating the
> Maven index.
> * Their UX focuses more heavily on providing just-in-time
> contextually-relevant information than Netbeans. The obvious example
> is how their editor will show the value of variables during a
> debugging session immediately before and after a line is executed.
> They also do a nice job of hiding threads with similar stacktraces
> so if (for example) I've got 100 idle worker threads, the thread
> list they show is not cluttered with them. I like this a lot.
>
> The final point I'm sure you already know: our UI is a lot more klunky
> than theirs. I don't mean that their IDE is "better looking" but rather
> that we have many long-standing UI bugs that are simply not present on
> their end (clashing foreground/background colors making text hard to
> read, viewport whose default size is too small, etc).
>
> Anyway, that's it for now. I hope it helps.
>
> Gili
>
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 10:12 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
> I can try to cresate a list for those Things, but why we Need a list? I
> think the tickets should be enough to catch them up.
>
Aside from that the JIRA interface is horrible?! ;-) From my perspective,
I'd say there needs to be some form of meta-tracking / planning. That
could of course happen in the issue tracker itself, and maybe should - wiki
does mean manual syncing.
> @Neil, I worked serveral years with FF ...
>
I wasn't trying to start a browser flame war, I just found your parallel
interesting from a personal perspective related also to my use of NetBeans
- what is theoretically more popular / better featured doesn't apply *for
me* if the tool workflow and feature set of something else covers my needs
and makes me more productive. Chrome may do more, but I also find it
clunky to work with - sometimes it's good to concentrate on less but do it
better!
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Nope, nobody said “create a ticket and do it by your own”. However, if we
don’t know which very specific features or issues you’re missing, you’ll
definitely write another e-mail exactly like this one three months from
now. “Help me to help you,” as Tom Cruise once said. What do I and others
need to do, specifically, to help you not need to write this e-mail again
three months from now? We can’t do everything. But if we could do
something, what would it be?
Gj
On Friday, April 20, 2018, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
> I can try to cresate a list for those Things, but why we Need a list? I
> think the tickets should be enough to catch them up.
>
> The Problem of this is, I really would like to contribute more and more,
> but as I said often, when I’m able to fix all my 200 feature requests and
> Bugs, I will do it by my own, but I’m not. Yes it is hoping from my
> perspective, that some other developers catches some stuff up to fix them
> and not me, because of lack of time and lack of Knowledge. So often to say,
> create a ticket and do it by your own is not the right way.
>
> @Neil, I worked serveral years with FF and Firebug I really liked the
> Tools and I was a fanboy and I developed a plugin for Firefox too, but then
> I had to Switch to Chrome (Yes I had to, beacuse of my Company, there was a
> wepapp, where I can’t use FF and firebug, because of the heavy JS part. Yes
> this is not good at all, but there was no easy way except switching to
> Chrome). And now I love Chrome very much for the big and usefull Features.
> I tried to swtiched back to FF, w/o firebug, using the native dev Tools,
> but they are not so powerful as the Google dev Tools, in my perspective.
>
> So we don’t have to copy overy the whole IDE from intelliJ but those
> killer Features (and of Course Innovation) that other IDEs still have, to
> be on Point as an real alternative for other developers. I see all those
> Features and I often think by my self: Wow why I can’t do this in NetBeans?
> And I know why other devs Switch to IntelliJ, because of those full and
> rich Features. It is often the same.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Neil C Smith
> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 10:52
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 09:28 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
> > It is not that NetBeans Needs to be the first/best DIE on planet, I think
> > this fight is the same as with IE/Edge/Firefox against Chrome. Chrome is
> > the best and most used one. It is more that NetBeans should be comparable
> > with other big IDEs and atm, yes it is comparable but it lacks of
> Features,
> > big and small Features that are still missing.
> >
>
> Generally I agree with Geertjan about approach to handling this. However,
> two broad brush strokes come to mind here -
>
> * Firstly, I get the feeling that some things are a case of not being easy
> to find rather than not available - I'm not sure if that's just me, but
> every now and again I'll find something that I think has been missing all
> along. Some of this might be reviewing how things are displayed.
>
> * Secondly, I'm not sure competing to play catch up / clone the commercial
> players is necessarily the best approach. Blatantly missing features,
> yes. But it would be nice to see some focus on innovation too (if you know
> some of my FLOSS work you know I'm quite interested in different coding
> interfaces), and maybe looking for inspiration a little outside the main
> Java IDE bubble.
>
> Oh, and Chrome may be most popular, but the best browser? Give me Firefox
> tools any time! ;-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
>
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>
>
AW: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
I can try to cresate a list for those Things, but why we Need a list? I think the tickets should be enough to catch them up.
The Problem of this is, I really would like to contribute more and more, but as I said often, when I’m able to fix all my 200 feature requests and Bugs, I will do it by my own, but I’m not. Yes it is hoping from my perspective, that some other developers catches some stuff up to fix them and not me, because of lack of time and lack of Knowledge. So often to say, create a ticket and do it by your own is not the right way.
@Neil, I worked serveral years with FF and Firebug I really liked the Tools and I was a fanboy and I developed a plugin for Firefox too, but then I had to Switch to Chrome (Yes I had to, beacuse of my Company, there was a wepapp, where I can’t use FF and firebug, because of the heavy JS part. Yes this is not good at all, but there was no easy way except switching to Chrome). And now I love Chrome very much for the big and usefull Features. I tried to swtiched back to FF, w/o firebug, using the native dev Tools, but they are not so powerful as the Google dev Tools, in my perspective.
So we don’t have to copy overy the whole IDE from intelliJ but those killer Features (and of Course Innovation) that other IDEs still have, to be on Point as an real alternative for other developers. I see all those Features and I often think by my self: Wow why I can’t do this in NetBeans? And I know why other devs Switch to IntelliJ, because of those full and rich Features. It is often the same.
Cheers
Chris
Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 10:52
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Hi,
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 09:28 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
> It is not that NetBeans Needs to be the first/best DIE on planet, I think
> this fight is the same as with IE/Edge/Firefox against Chrome. Chrome is
> the best and most used one. It is more that NetBeans should be comparable
> with other big IDEs and atm, yes it is comparable but it lacks of Features,
> big and small Features that are still missing.
>
Generally I agree with Geertjan about approach to handling this. However,
two broad brush strokes come to mind here -
* Firstly, I get the feeling that some things are a case of not being easy
to find rather than not available - I'm not sure if that's just me, but
every now and again I'll find something that I think has been missing all
along. Some of this might be reviewing how things are displayed.
* Secondly, I'm not sure competing to play catch up / clone the commercial
players is necessarily the best approach. Blatantly missing features,
yes. But it would be nice to see some focus on innovation too (if you know
some of my FLOSS work you know I'm quite interested in different coding
interfaces), and maybe looking for inspiration a little outside the main
Java IDE bubble.
Oh, and Chrome may be most popular, but the best browser? Give me Firefox
tools any time! ;-)
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 09:28 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
> It is not that NetBeans Needs to be the first/best DIE on planet, I think
> this fight is the same as with IE/Edge/Firefox against Chrome. Chrome is
> the best and most used one. It is more that NetBeans should be comparable
> with other big IDEs and atm, yes it is comparable but it lacks of Features,
> big and small Features that are still missing.
>
Generally I agree with Geertjan about approach to handling this. However,
two broad brush strokes come to mind here -
* Firstly, I get the feeling that some things are a case of not being easy
to find rather than not available - I'm not sure if that's just me, but
every now and again I'll find something that I think has been missing all
along. Some of this might be reviewing how things are displayed.
* Secondly, I'm not sure competing to play catch up / clone the commercial
players is necessarily the best approach. Blatantly missing features,
yes. But it would be nice to see some focus on innovation too (if you know
some of my FLOSS work you know I'm quite interested in different coding
interfaces), and maybe looking for inspiration a little outside the main
Java IDE bubble.
Oh, and Chrome may be most popular, but the best browser? Give me Firefox
tools any time! ;-)
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
AW: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
I follow the blog Posts of their Releases and I can say that they have a loooot more killer Features than NetBeans. Those killer Features are sometimes so small but they are so Handy. I can create 1000 Tickets for NetBeans (Yes a bit exaggerated but I think everyone knows that. And those People who went to IntelliJ, from NetBeans or Eclipse).
There is one Feature for example which is maven related. The Thing, that you can convert a Java application to maven. It is not that big but it does a lot for you. It creates a pom file, the Folder structure and tries to copy/move the stuff into the right Folder/package.
Yes, at the end, this is not correct often, beacuse sometimes you have to fix the paths etc. but it is a good starting Point first for developers, you wants Switch to maven from ant. This Feature is very Handy and I often use it. Unfortunately this is missing in NetBeans. And I can tell you a lot more about IntelliJ, because I compare NetBeans with IntelliJ or WebStorm or PHPStorm sometimes to check, how they handles it or whether they can handle it or not.
It is not that NetBeans Needs to be the first/best DIE on planet, I think this fight is the same as with IE/Edge/Firefox against Chrome. Chrome is the best and most used one. It is more that NetBeans should be comparable with other big IDEs and atm, yes it is comparable but it lacks of Features, big and small Features that are still missing.
Cheers
Chris
Von: cowwoc
Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 09:48
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Hi,
I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
used it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in
the hopes that it helps.
As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
* Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
trying to start a debugging session through Maven) but it has a
downside of poor performance.
* Specifically, the REPL loop for IntelliJ is much quicker than
Netbeans for Maven projects. Compilation and execution is almost
instanteous and I also don't recall ever waiting on updating the
Maven index.
* Their UX focuses more heavily on providing just-in-time
contextually-relevant information than Netbeans. The obvious example
is how their editor will show the value of variables during a
debugging session immediately before and after a line is executed.
They also do a nice job of hiding threads with similar stacktraces
so if (for example) I've got 100 idle worker threads, the thread
list they show is not cluttered with them. I like this a lot.
The final point I'm sure you already know: our UI is a lot more klunky
than theirs. I don't mean that their IDE is "better looking" but rather
that we have many long-standing UI bugs that are simply not present on
their end (clashing foreground/background colors making text hard to
read, viewport whose default size is too small, etc).
Anyway, that's it for now. I hope it helps.
Gili
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Kai Uwe Pel <ka...@asia.com>.
Sounds like an amazing plan absolutely !!!
Thanks
Cheers,
Kai
On 4/20/2018 1:56 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing and
> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s a
> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to performance.
>
> Gj
>
> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
>> Apache,
>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
>> this
>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I
>> am
>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list and
>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>
>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more of
>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>
>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some things,
>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
>> actions.
>>
>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really be a
>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>
>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>
>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I must
>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>
>> Wade
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org>.
Laszlo,
Thank you for taking the time to do this, but I don't see any screenshot
attached to your email. Maybe the mailing list stripped it out?
Can someone help Laszlo share his dashboard publicly (permission fix)?
Gili
On 2018-04-20 7:14 PM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> Dear all,
>
>
> I've created a JIRA Dashboard to be able to see where are we now.
>
> Actually JIRA is not that bad if you start to use it well. I'd share
> my dashboard if you find that useful, though I do not have the rights
> for it now, so I've attached a screenshot of that.
>
> Just some short stats on the open issues: We have 571 issues already
> in the JIRA 526 of them are not assigned to anyone. Also we have 43
> open issues with PR-s.
> The sad thing is that we have 4 blocker and 19 critical issues with no
> responsible persons.
>
> If someone has no time to code, just trying to test/reproduce and
> clarify these issues would make a tremendous contribution to the project.
>
> As of catching up with other IDEs. Good and detailed feature requests
> are welcome into the JIRA and on a mail thread as well.
>
> On 04/20/2018 03:12 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>> “25 days and nothing” — yes, that’s how it’s going to be for a while
>> until
>> we are a real Apache project, whereas right now we’re in process moving
>> from Oracle to Apache. Though note you’re going to always be responsible
>> for making your own party — if you provide a PR or issue and no one
>> responds, create a new discussion thread here, i.e., new from
>> scratch, to
>> discuss it.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Saturday, April 21, 2018, Christian Bourque
>> <ch...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have to agree with Gili...
>>>
>>>
>>> Sometimes it feels that nobody cares... I created a ticket a month ago
>>> about an improvement in the NetBeans Git integration and decided to
>>> code it
>>> myself.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then I submitted a PR and eventually the reviewing process started.
>>> But the
>>> reviewer has had many objections to my request (which is perfectly
>>> fine). I
>>> told him that the Eclipse JGit library was OSGi based and that it had
>>> external dependencies that were triggered during the bootstrapping of
>>> NetBeans. I even contacted the Eclipse team to tell them that one of
>>> their
>>> OSGi dependencies wasn't even used in their JGit library, the lead
>>> developer realized that it was a mistake and he fixed it!
>>>
>>>
>>> After that, I sent more questions and comments to the reviewer to
>>> understand how I could resolve the remaining issues in an acceptable
>>> way,
>>> but to no avail. The reviewer just stopped answering my questions!
>>> Now it's
>>> been 25 days and nothing... So, I put a lot of time into this for
>>> what at
>>> the end?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think that this is how you're going to attract new
>>> developers to
>>> contribute to this project...
>>>
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 1:36 PM, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I did. Multiple times.
>>>>
>>>> One of the issues I brought up was the copy/paste bug I linked to
>>>> below.
>>>> When I brought it up in the mailing list in the past I got no replies.
>>>>
>>>> That issue (and its linked counterparts) are very annoying (for
>>>> obvious
>>>> reasons). I suspect no one else is experiencing this problem
>>>> because it
>>>> seems too major to ignore.
>>>>
>>>> Gili
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2018-04-20 1:21 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rather than filing hundreds of issues, I recommend you pick one, just
>>> one,
>>>>> and open a discussion thread around that. Once people have seen and
>>>>> discussed your issue on the mailing list, probably one of those will
>>>>> volunteer to tix it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gj
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I
>>>>> understand that
>>>>>> IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
>>>>>> focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the pieces in
>>>>>> place,
>>>>>> but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow to use.
>>>>>> Specifically
>>>>>> on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that it is
>>>>>> impossible to
>>>>>> copy/paste correctly: https://issues.apache.org/
>>> jira/browse/NETBEANS-235
>>>>>> (see linked issues as well)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already
>>>>>> filed
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much movement
>>>>>> (committers are understandably working on their own issues before
>>> looking
>>>>>> at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you guys but I
>>> don't
>>>>>> have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports. Family
>>> emergencies
>>>>>> are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I don't see the
>>>>>> point of
>>>>>> doing all this work until I see some movement on the issues that I
>>>>>> already
>>>>>> filed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gili
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will
>>> also
>>>>>>> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and
>>>>>>> try
>>> to
>>>>>>> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to
>>>>>>> resize the
>>>>>>> window
>>>>>>> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of
>>>>>>> the
>>> last
>>>>>>> Wizard
>>>>>>> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
>>>>>>> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing
>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would
>>> allow
>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and
>>>>>>> only open
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify
>>>>>>> groups.
>>>>>>> (Very
>>>>>>> minor convenience improvement)
>>>>>>> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with
>>>>>>> dpiaware
>>>>>>> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated
>>>>>>> still)
>>>>>>> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
>>>>>>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels
>>>>>>> crowded
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
>>>>>>> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think
>>>>>>> this is a
>>>>>>> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <
>>> christian.lenz@gmx.net
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over
>>>>>>> IntelliJ but
>>> I
>>>>>>>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I
>>>>>>>> tested was
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick
>>>>>>>> search is
>>> not
>>>>>>>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to
>>> open
>>>>>>>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way
>>>>>>>> better in
>>>>>>>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions
>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what
>>>>>>>> NetBeans
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the
>>>>>>>> indexing
>>>>>>>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to
>>>>>>>> whatever,
>>>>>>>> searching etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
>>>>>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
>>>>>>>> insights
>>>>>>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that
>>>>>>>> indexing
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread
>>> there’s
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to
>>>>>>>> performance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gj
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though
>>>>>>>>> now, in
>>>>>>>>> Apache,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on
>>>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>>>> Many
>>>>>>>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to
>>> tackle
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any
>>> deklunking
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific
>>> list
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>>>>>>>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> things,
>>>>>>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the
>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and
>>>>>>>>> other UI
>>>>>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can
>>> really
>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and
>>>>>>>> builds or
>>>>>>>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team
>>>>>>>>> members over
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right
>>> now I
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>>>>>>>> Wade
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>>>> dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Dear all,
I've created a JIRA Dashboard to be able to see where are we now.
Actually JIRA is not that bad if you start to use it well. I'd share my
dashboard if you find that useful, though I do not have the rights for
it now, so I've attached a screenshot of that.
Just some short stats on the open issues: We have 571 issues already in
the JIRA 526 of them are not assigned to anyone. Also we have 43 open
issues with PR-s.
The sad thing is that we have 4 blocker and 19 critical issues with no
responsible persons.
If someone has no time to code, just trying to test/reproduce and
clarify these issues would make a tremendous contribution to the project.
As of catching up with other IDEs. Good and detailed feature requests
are welcome into the JIRA and on a mail thread as well.
On 04/20/2018 03:12 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> “25 days and nothing” — yes, that’s how it’s going to be for a while until
> we are a real Apache project, whereas right now we’re in process moving
> from Oracle to Apache. Though note you’re going to always be responsible
> for making your own party — if you provide a PR or issue and no one
> responds, create a new discussion thread here, i.e., new from scratch, to
> discuss it.
>
> Gj
>
> On Saturday, April 21, 2018, Christian Bourque <ch...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have to agree with Gili...
>>
>>
>> Sometimes it feels that nobody cares... I created a ticket a month ago
>> about an improvement in the NetBeans Git integration and decided to code it
>> myself.
>>
>>
>> Then I submitted a PR and eventually the reviewing process started. But the
>> reviewer has had many objections to my request (which is perfectly fine). I
>> told him that the Eclipse JGit library was OSGi based and that it had
>> external dependencies that were triggered during the bootstrapping of
>> NetBeans. I even contacted the Eclipse team to tell them that one of their
>> OSGi dependencies wasn't even used in their JGit library, the lead
>> developer realized that it was a mistake and he fixed it!
>>
>>
>> After that, I sent more questions and comments to the reviewer to
>> understand how I could resolve the remaining issues in an acceptable way,
>> but to no avail. The reviewer just stopped answering my questions! Now it's
>> been 25 days and nothing... So, I put a lot of time into this for what at
>> the end?
>>
>>
>> I don't think that this is how you're going to attract new developers to
>> contribute to this project...
>>
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 1:36 PM, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I did. Multiple times.
>>>
>>> One of the issues I brought up was the copy/paste bug I linked to below.
>>> When I brought it up in the mailing list in the past I got no replies.
>>>
>>> That issue (and its linked counterparts) are very annoying (for obvious
>>> reasons). I suspect no one else is experiencing this problem because it
>>> seems too major to ignore.
>>>
>>> Gili
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2018-04-20 1:21 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rather than filing hundreds of issues, I recommend you pick one, just
>> one,
>>>> and open a discussion thread around that. Once people have seen and
>>>> discussed your issue on the mailing list, probably one of those will
>>>> volunteer to tix it.
>>>>
>>>> Gj
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I understand that
>>>>> IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
>>>>> focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is
>>>>> because
>>>>> it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the pieces in
>>>>> place,
>>>>> but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow to use.
>>>>> Specifically
>>>>> on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that it is impossible to
>>>>> copy/paste correctly: https://issues.apache.org/
>> jira/browse/NETBEANS-235
>>>>> (see linked issues as well)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but those
>>>>> got
>>>>> flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already filed
>>>>> some
>>>>> issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much movement
>>>>> (committers are understandably working on their own issues before
>> looking
>>>>> at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you guys but I
>> don't
>>>>> have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports. Family
>> emergencies
>>>>> are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I don't see the point of
>>>>> doing all this work until I see some movement on the issues that I
>>>>> already
>>>>> filed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gili
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
>>>>>> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will
>> also
>>>>>> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and try
>> to
>>>>>> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the
>>>>>> window
>>>>>> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the
>> last
>>>>>> Wizard
>>>>>> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
>>>>>> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing
>>>>>> project
>>>>>> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would
>> allow
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only open
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify groups.
>>>>>> (Very
>>>>>> minor convenience improvement)
>>>>>> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with
>>>>>> dpiaware
>>>>>> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
>>>>>> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
>>>>>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
>>>>>> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
>>>>>> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <
>> christian.lenz@gmx.net
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but
>> I
>>>>>>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is
>> not
>>>>>>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to
>> open
>>>>>>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
>>>>>>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the
>>>>>>> indexing
>>>>>>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to
>>>>>>> whatever,
>>>>>>> searching etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
>>>>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
>>>>>>> insights
>>>>>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread
>> there’s
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to
>>>>>>> performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gj
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
>>>>>>>> Apache,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together.
>>>>>>>>> Many
>>>>>>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to
>> tackle
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any
>> deklunking
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific
>> list
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>>>>>>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> things,
>>>>>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
>>>>>>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
>>>>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project
>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can
>> really
>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
>>>>>>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right
>> now I
>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>>>>>>> Wade
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
“25 days and nothing” — yes, that’s how it’s going to be for a while until
we are a real Apache project, whereas right now we’re in process moving
from Oracle to Apache. Though note you’re going to always be responsible
for making your own party — if you provide a PR or issue and no one
responds, create a new discussion thread here, i.e., new from scratch, to
discuss it.
Gj
On Saturday, April 21, 2018, Christian Bourque <ch...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I have to agree with Gili...
>
>
> Sometimes it feels that nobody cares... I created a ticket a month ago
> about an improvement in the NetBeans Git integration and decided to code it
> myself.
>
>
> Then I submitted a PR and eventually the reviewing process started. But the
> reviewer has had many objections to my request (which is perfectly fine). I
> told him that the Eclipse JGit library was OSGi based and that it had
> external dependencies that were triggered during the bootstrapping of
> NetBeans. I even contacted the Eclipse team to tell them that one of their
> OSGi dependencies wasn't even used in their JGit library, the lead
> developer realized that it was a mistake and he fixed it!
>
>
> After that, I sent more questions and comments to the reviewer to
> understand how I could resolve the remaining issues in an acceptable way,
> but to no avail. The reviewer just stopped answering my questions! Now it's
> been 25 days and nothing... So, I put a lot of time into this for what at
> the end?
>
>
> I don't think that this is how you're going to attract new developers to
> contribute to this project...
>
>
> Christian
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 1:36 PM, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>
> > I did. Multiple times.
> >
> > One of the issues I brought up was the copy/paste bug I linked to below.
> > When I brought it up in the mailing list in the past I got no replies.
> >
> > That issue (and its linked counterparts) are very annoying (for obvious
> > reasons). I suspect no one else is experiencing this problem because it
> > seems too major to ignore.
> >
> > Gili
> >
> >
> > On 2018-04-20 1:21 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> >
> >> Rather than filing hundreds of issues, I recommend you pick one, just
> one,
> >> and open a discussion thread around that. Once people have seen and
> >> discussed your issue on the mailing list, probably one of those will
> >> volunteer to tix it.
> >>
> >> Gj
> >>
> >> On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I understand that
> >>> IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
> >>> focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is
> >>> because
> >>> it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the pieces in
> >>> place,
> >>> but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow to use.
> >>> Specifically
> >>> on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that it is impossible to
> >>> copy/paste correctly: https://issues.apache.org/
> jira/browse/NETBEANS-235
> >>> (see linked issues as well)
> >>>
> >>> I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but those
> >>> got
> >>> flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already filed
> >>> some
> >>> issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much movement
> >>> (committers are understandably working on their own issues before
> looking
> >>> at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you guys but I
> don't
> >>> have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports. Family
> emergencies
> >>> are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I don't see the point of
> >>> doing all this work until I see some movement on the issues that I
> >>> already
> >>> filed.
> >>>
> >>> Gili
> >>>
> >>> On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
> >>>> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will
> also
> >>>> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and try
> to
> >>>> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
> >>>>
> >>>> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the
> >>>> window
> >>>> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the
> last
> >>>> Wizard
> >>>> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
> >>>> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing
> >>>> project
> >>>> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would
> allow
> >>>> someone
> >>>> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only open
> >>>> the
> >>>> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify groups.
> >>>> (Very
> >>>> minor convenience improvement)
> >>>> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with
> >>>> dpiaware
> >>>> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
> >>>> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
> >>>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded
> >>>> to
> >>>> me
> >>>> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
> >>>> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
> >>>> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <
> christian.lenz@gmx.net
> >>>> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but
> I
> >>>>
> >>>>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> go
> >>>>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is
> not
> >>>>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to
> open
> >>>>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
> >>>>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans
> >>>>> can
> >>>>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the
> >>>>> indexing
> >>>>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to
> >>>>> whatever,
> >>>>> searching etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> >>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
> >>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
> >>>>> insights
> >>>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread
> there’s
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to
> >>>>> performance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gj
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
> >>>>>> Apache,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together.
> >>>>>>> Many
> >>>>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to
> tackle
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any
> deklunking
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> am
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific
> list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get
> >>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
> >>>>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> things,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
> >>>>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
> >>>>>> actions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project
> >>>>>> support
> >>>>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can
> really
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> be a
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
> >>>>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> years with such issues in other environments.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right
> now I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> must
> >>>>>
> >>>>> get ready for CodeStock!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Wade
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Christian Bourque <ch...@gmail.com>.
I have to agree with Gili...
Sometimes it feels that nobody cares... I created a ticket a month ago
about an improvement in the NetBeans Git integration and decided to code it
myself.
Then I submitted a PR and eventually the reviewing process started. But the
reviewer has had many objections to my request (which is perfectly fine). I
told him that the Eclipse JGit library was OSGi based and that it had
external dependencies that were triggered during the bootstrapping of
NetBeans. I even contacted the Eclipse team to tell them that one of their
OSGi dependencies wasn't even used in their JGit library, the lead
developer realized that it was a mistake and he fixed it!
After that, I sent more questions and comments to the reviewer to
understand how I could resolve the remaining issues in an acceptable way,
but to no avail. The reviewer just stopped answering my questions! Now it's
been 25 days and nothing... So, I put a lot of time into this for what at
the end?
I don't think that this is how you're going to attract new developers to
contribute to this project...
Christian
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 1:36 PM, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
> I did. Multiple times.
>
> One of the issues I brought up was the copy/paste bug I linked to below.
> When I brought it up in the mailing list in the past I got no replies.
>
> That issue (and its linked counterparts) are very annoying (for obvious
> reasons). I suspect no one else is experiencing this problem because it
> seems too major to ignore.
>
> Gili
>
>
> On 2018-04-20 1:21 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
>> Rather than filing hundreds of issues, I recommend you pick one, just one,
>> and open a discussion thread around that. Once people have seen and
>> discussed your issue on the mailing list, probably one of those will
>> volunteer to tix it.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I understand that
>>> IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
>>> focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is
>>> because
>>> it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the pieces in
>>> place,
>>> but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow to use.
>>> Specifically
>>> on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that it is impossible to
>>> copy/paste correctly: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-235
>>> (see linked issues as well)
>>>
>>> I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but those
>>> got
>>> flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already filed
>>> some
>>> issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much movement
>>> (committers are understandably working on their own issues before looking
>>> at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you guys but I don't
>>> have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports. Family emergencies
>>> are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I don't see the point of
>>> doing all this work until I see some movement on the issues that I
>>> already
>>> filed.
>>>
>>> Gili
>>>
>>> On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
>>>> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will also
>>>> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and try to
>>>> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
>>>>
>>>> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the
>>>> window
>>>> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the last
>>>> Wizard
>>>> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
>>>> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing
>>>> project
>>>> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would allow
>>>> someone
>>>> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only open
>>>> the
>>>> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify groups.
>>>> (Very
>>>> minor convenience improvement)
>>>> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with
>>>> dpiaware
>>>> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
>>>> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
>>>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded
>>>> to
>>>> me
>>>> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
>>>> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
>>>> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <christian.lenz@gmx.net
>>>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but I
>>>>
>>>>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was
>>>>> the
>>>>> go
>>>>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is not
>>>>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to open
>>>>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
>>>>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans
>>>>> can
>>>>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the
>>>>> indexing
>>>>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to
>>>>> whatever,
>>>>> searching etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
>>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>>>>
>>>>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with
>>>>> the
>>>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
>>>>> insights
>>>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing
>>>>> and
>>>>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s
>>>>> a
>>>>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to
>>>>> performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gj
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>>>>>
>>>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
>>>>>> Apache,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together.
>>>>>>> Many
>>>>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>
>>>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>>>>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
>>>>>>
>>>>>> things,
>>>>>
>>>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
>>>>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
>>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really
>>>>>>
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>
>>>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
>>>>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I
>>>>>>
>>>>>> must
>>>>>
>>>>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wade
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Валера Солдатов <v....@gmail.com>.
22.04.2018 22:39, William L. Thomson Jr. пишет:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 22:01:48 +0200
> Kai Uwe Pel <ka...@asia.com> wrote:
>
>> Just wondering... for example, if you need to coding with C++, the
>> only way to get decent C/C++ support within the IntelliJ IDEA is to
>> use/buy JetBrains CLion.
>> Anyway NetBeans IDE supports everything in one, and you no need to
>> have all possible features like IntelliJ. Simple said!
> Lately I do more C in Netbeans than Java. It has good support for
> CMake, my preferred C build system. Not really on the Meson bandwagon.
> Only bits I am eager to see Oracle release :)
>
> Oracle/Sun always used Netbeans for much more than Java. It was the
> foundation for their other products for C/C++ and Fortran/
> It has had a stupid amount of names/rebranding...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Developer_Studio
>
> Netbeans + Commercial stuff
>
Now almost all IDE-related Developer Studio features can be found in
https://hg.netbeans.org/ sources.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by "William L. Thomson Jr." <wl...@o-sinc.com>.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 22:01:48 +0200
Kai Uwe Pel <ka...@asia.com> wrote:
> Just wondering... for example, if you need to coding with C++, the
> only way to get decent C/C++ support within the IntelliJ IDEA is to
> use/buy JetBrains CLion.
> Anyway NetBeans IDE supports everything in one, and you no need to
> have all possible features like IntelliJ. Simple said!
Lately I do more C in Netbeans than Java. It has good support for
CMake, my preferred C build system. Not really on the Meson bandwagon.
Only bits I am eager to see Oracle release :)
Oracle/Sun always used Netbeans for much more than Java. It was the
foundation for their other products for C/C++ and Fortran/
It has had a stupid amount of names/rebranding...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Developer_Studio
Netbeans + Commercial stuff
--
William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Kai Uwe Pel <ka...@asia.com>.
Just wondering... for example, if you need to coding with C++, the only
way to get decent C/C++ support within the IntelliJ IDEA is to use/buy
JetBrains CLion.
Anyway NetBeans IDE supports everything in one, and you no need to have
all possible features like IntelliJ. Simple said!
Kai
On 4/20/2018 7:36 PM, cowwoc wrote:
> I did. Multiple times.
>
> One of the issues I brought up was the copy/paste bug I linked to
> below. When I brought it up in the mailing list in the past I got no
> replies.
>
> That issue (and its linked counterparts) are very annoying (for
> obvious reasons). I suspect no one else is experiencing this problem
> because it seems too major to ignore.
>
> Gili
>
> On 2018-04-20 1:21 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>> Rather than filing hundreds of issues, I recommend you pick one, just
>> one,
>> and open a discussion thread around that. Once people have seen and
>> discussed your issue on the mailing list, probably one of those will
>> volunteer to tix it.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>>
>>> This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I understand
>>> that
>>> IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
>>> focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is
>>> because
>>> it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the pieces in
>>> place,
>>> but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow to use.
>>> Specifically
>>> on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that it is impossible to
>>> copy/paste correctly:
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-235
>>> (see linked issues as well)
>>>
>>> I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but
>>> those got
>>> flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already
>>> filed some
>>> issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much movement
>>> (committers are understandably working on their own issues before
>>> looking
>>> at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you guys but I
>>> don't
>>> have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports. Family
>>> emergencies
>>> are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I don't see the point of
>>> doing all this work until I see some movement on the issues that I
>>> already
>>> filed.
>>>
>>> Gili
>>>
>>> On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
>>>> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will
>>>> also
>>>> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and
>>>> try to
>>>> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
>>>>
>>>> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the
>>>> window
>>>> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the
>>>> last
>>>> Wizard
>>>> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
>>>> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing
>>>> project
>>>> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would
>>>> allow
>>>> someone
>>>> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only
>>>> open the
>>>> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify
>>>> groups. (Very
>>>> minor convenience improvement)
>>>> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with
>>>> dpiaware
>>>> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
>>>> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
>>>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels
>>>> crowded to
>>>> me
>>>> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
>>>> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
>>>> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz
>>>> <ch...@gmx.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ
>>>> but I
>>>>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested
>>>>> was the
>>>>> go
>>>>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search
>>>>> is not
>>>>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to
>>>>> open
>>>>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
>>>>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what
>>>>> NetBeans can
>>>>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the
>>>>> indexing
>>>>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to
>>>>> whatever,
>>>>> searching etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
>>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>>>>
>>>>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done
>>>>> with the
>>>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
>>>>> insights
>>>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that
>>>>> indexing and
>>>>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread
>>>>> there’s a
>>>>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to
>>>>> performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gj
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>>>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
>>>>>> Apache,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on
>>>>>>> together. Many
>>>>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to
>>>>>>> tackle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any
>>>>>>> deklunking I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> am
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific
>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>>>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we
>>>>>>> get more
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>>>>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
>>>>>>
>>>>> things,
>>>>>
>>>>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
>>>>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
>>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can
>>>>>> really
>>>>>>
>>>>> be a
>>>>>
>>>>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and
>>>>>> builds or
>>>>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members
>>>>>> over the
>>>>>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right
>>>>>> now I
>>>>>>
>>>>> must
>>>>>
>>>>>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wade
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org>.
I did. Multiple times.
One of the issues I brought up was the copy/paste bug I linked to below.
When I brought it up in the mailing list in the past I got no replies.
That issue (and its linked counterparts) are very annoying (for obvious
reasons). I suspect no one else is experiencing this problem because it
seems too major to ignore.
Gili
On 2018-04-20 1:21 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Rather than filing hundreds of issues, I recommend you pick one, just one,
> and open a discussion thread around that. Once people have seen and
> discussed your issue on the mailing list, probably one of those will
> volunteer to tix it.
>
> Gj
>
> On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>
>> This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I understand that
>> IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
>> focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is because
>> it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the pieces in place,
>> but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow to use. Specifically
>> on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that it is impossible to
>> copy/paste correctly: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-235
>> (see linked issues as well)
>>
>> I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but those got
>> flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already filed some
>> issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much movement
>> (committers are understandably working on their own issues before looking
>> at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you guys but I don't
>> have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports. Family emergencies
>> are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I don't see the point of
>> doing all this work until I see some movement on the issues that I already
>> filed.
>>
>> Gili
>>
>> On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
>>
>>> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
>>> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will also
>>> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and try to
>>> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
>>>
>>> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the
>>> window
>>> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the last
>>> Wizard
>>> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
>>> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing project
>>> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would allow
>>> someone
>>> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only open the
>>> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify groups. (Very
>>> minor convenience improvement)
>>> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with dpiaware
>>> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
>>> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
>>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to
>>> me
>>> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
>>> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
>>> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but I
>>>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was the
>>>> go
>>>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is not
>>>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to open
>>>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
>>>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
>>>>
>>>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans can
>>>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the
>>>> indexing
>>>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to
>>>> whatever,
>>>> searching etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
>>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>>>
>>>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with the
>>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
>>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing and
>>>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s a
>>>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to
>>>> performance.
>>>>
>>>> Gj
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
>>>>> Apache,
>>>>>
>>>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
>>>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
>>>>>>
>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I
>>>>>>
>>>>> am
>>>>>
>>>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more
>>>>> of
>>>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>>>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>>>>
>>>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
>>>>>
>>>> things,
>>>>
>>>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
>>>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
>>>>> actions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
>>>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really
>>>>>
>>>> be a
>>>>
>>>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
>>>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
>>>>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I
>>>>>
>>>> must
>>>>
>>>>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>>>>
>>>>> Wade
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Rather than filing hundreds of issues, I recommend you pick one, just one,
and open a discussion thread around that. Once people have seen and
discussed your issue on the mailing list, probably one of those will
volunteer to tix it.
Gj
On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
> This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I understand that
> IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
> focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is because
> it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the pieces in place,
> but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow to use. Specifically
> on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that it is impossible to
> copy/paste correctly: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-235
> (see linked issues as well)
>
> I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but those got
> flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already filed some
> issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much movement
> (committers are understandably working on their own issues before looking
> at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you guys but I don't
> have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports. Family emergencies
> are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I don't see the point of
> doing all this work until I see some movement on the issues that I already
> filed.
>
> Gili
>
> On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
>
>> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
>> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will also
>> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and try to
>> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
>>
>> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the
>> window
>> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the last
>> Wizard
>> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
>> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing project
>> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would allow
>> someone
>> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only open the
>> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify groups. (Very
>> minor convenience improvement)
>> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with dpiaware
>> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
>> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to
>> me
>> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
>> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
>> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but I
>>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was the
>>> go
>>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is not
>>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to open
>>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
>>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
>>>
>>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans can
>>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the
>>> indexing
>>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to
>>> whatever,
>>> searching etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>>
>>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with the
>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing and
>>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s a
>>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to
>>> performance.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
>>>>>
>>>> Apache,
>>>>
>>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
>>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
>>>>>
>>>> this
>>>>
>>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I
>>>>>
>>>> am
>>>>
>>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list
>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>
>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>>>
>>>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more
>>>> of
>>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>>>
>>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
>>>>
>>> things,
>>>
>>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
>>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
>>>> actions.
>>>>
>>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
>>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really
>>>>
>>> be a
>>>
>>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
>>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>>>
>>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
>>>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>>>
>>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I
>>>>
>>> must
>>>
>>>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>>>
>>>> Wade
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org>.
This is precisely the kind of fixes I'm talking about. I understand that
IntelliJ has many features that Netbeans does not, but I'm primarily
focused on improving the *core* development functionality (this is
because it impacts all other project types). We've got many of the
pieces in place, but UI problems make that functionality annoying/slow
to use. Specifically on the point of 4k monitors, I keep on saying that
it is impossible to copy/paste correctly:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-235 (see linked issues as
well)
I have already filed thousands of issues before (literally), but those
got flushed down the drain when we migrated to Apache. I've already
filed some issues in Apache JIRA but for now there hasn't been much
movement (committers are understandably working on their own issues
before looking at other people's issues). Nothing personal against you
guys but I don't have the time/energy to re-file all those bug reports.
Family emergencies are keeping me super busy nowadays and frankly I
don't see the point of doing all this work until I see some movement on
the issues that I already filed.
Gili
On 2018-04-20 10:20 AM, John Leon wrote:
> I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
> NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will also
> keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and try to
> contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
>
> - The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the window
> to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the last Wizard
> window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
> - The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing project
> groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would allow someone
> to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only open the
> "project group manager" window if you need to add/modify groups. (Very
> minor convenience improvement)
> - Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with dpiaware
> and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
> - Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to me
> - With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
> - Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
> optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but I
>> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was the go
>> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is not
>> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to open
>> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
>> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
>>
>> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans can
>> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the indexing
>> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to whatever,
>> searching etc.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>
>> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with the
>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
>> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing and
>> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s a
>> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to performance.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
>>> Apache,
>>>> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
>>>> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
>>> this
>>>> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I
>>> am
>>>> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list
>> and
>>>> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>>>>
>>> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more of
>>> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
>>> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>>>
>>> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
>> things,
>>> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
>>> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
>>> actions.
>>>
>>> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
>>> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really
>> be a
>>> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
>>> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>>>
>>> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
>>> years with such issues in other environments.
>>>
>>> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I
>> must
>>> get ready for CodeStock!
>>>
>>> Wade
>>>
>>
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Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Rodolfo Fortes <rf...@gmail.com>.
If it's to compare to IntelliJ it must be done with their community
version, that's free like NetBeans but lacks a lot of features.
To me, NetBeans is the best free IDE available to work with Java EE, I
tried Eclipse but I found its interface outdated and not straightforward as
NetBeans, I find it very easy to start a Java EE/Maven project with
NetBeans. A killer feature to me it's a plugin one, the Jeddict plugin! It
helped me a LOT! Sometimes when dealing with legacy systems I need just of
their database, Jeddict helps me to take it and reverse engineering to JPA
Entitys! I didn't find something so easy to work with as this plugin even
in the paid IntelliJ, I hope their developers continue to improve it.
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 7:13 AM, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> @Gili/Laszlo
>
> Jiri already created a dashboard for NetBeans:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12332455
>
> We also have a Kanban board for all issues (its a little slow loading):
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/RapidBoard.jspa?rapidView=216
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
> On 21 April 2018 at 08:35, Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We may want to define a NetBeans wide "style guide" or "design
> guidelines"
> > that define:
> >
> > - A NetBeans-wide icon set (Emilian built a webpage for this).
> > - Padding/margins etc.
> > - Maybe an open source font (APLv2) we can use. IBM Plex
> > https://github.com/IBM/plex is SIL licensed (can we use that).
> > - A NetBeans-wide color theme.
> >
> > The "Java Look and Feel Design Guidelines" at
> > http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/index-136139.html is indeed
> > obsolete nowadays.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Antonio
> >
> > On 20/04/18 17:21, Neil C Smith wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:29 John Leon <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to
> >>> me
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Funnily enough just been doing exactly that for Praxis LIVE (image at
> >> https://twitter.com/PraxisLIVE/status/984810937159995392 ), and making
> >> it a
> >> bit more responsive to --fontsize. Definitely be interested in helping
> out
> >> with this.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
@Gili/Laszlo
Jiri already created a dashboard for NetBeans:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12332455
We also have a Kanban board for all issues (its a little slow loading):
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/RapidBoard.jspa?rapidView=216
Regards
John
On 21 April 2018 at 08:35, Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We may want to define a NetBeans wide "style guide" or "design guidelines"
> that define:
>
> - A NetBeans-wide icon set (Emilian built a webpage for this).
> - Padding/margins etc.
> - Maybe an open source font (APLv2) we can use. IBM Plex
> https://github.com/IBM/plex is SIL licensed (can we use that).
> - A NetBeans-wide color theme.
>
> The "Java Look and Feel Design Guidelines" at
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/index-136139.html is indeed
> obsolete nowadays.
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
> On 20/04/18 17:21, Neil C Smith wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:29 John Leon <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to
>>> me
>>>
>>>
>>> Funnily enough just been doing exactly that for Praxis LIVE (image at
>> https://twitter.com/PraxisLIVE/status/984810937159995392 ), and making
>> it a
>> bit more responsive to --fontsize. Definitely be interested in helping out
>> with this.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
Hi all,
We may want to define a NetBeans wide "style guide" or "design
guidelines" that define:
- A NetBeans-wide icon set (Emilian built a webpage for this).
- Padding/margins etc.
- Maybe an open source font (APLv2) we can use. IBM Plex
https://github.com/IBM/plex is SIL licensed (can we use that).
- A NetBeans-wide color theme.
The "Java Look and Feel Design Guidelines" at
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/index-136139.html is indeed
obsolete nowadays.
Cheers,
Antonio
On 20/04/18 17:21, Neil C Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:29 John Leon <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to me
>>
>>
> Funnily enough just been doing exactly that for Praxis LIVE (image at
> https://twitter.com/PraxisLIVE/status/984810937159995392 ), and making it a
> bit more responsive to --fontsize. Definitely be interested in helping out
> with this.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
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Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>.
Intellij integration with Maven is quite poor and indexing, in my
experience, takes much longer than NB.
Strangely enough, since [NETBEANS-655] is a show-stopper for me I decided
to try Intellij yesterday. It's quite weak. While it does create the
Maven project it does not produce a *.jar file with the default set-up,
installs very old plugins, and even after fixing the packaging xml does not
produce a packaging component.
Inellij does not manage projects as well as NB does (i.e. delete, close)
The NB editor provides some really convenient features such as imports
(Ctrl+Shift+i) which are useful when starting to develop a class. Other
editor features appear to be comparable.
I've also recently looked (again) at Eclipse -- now there's a total train
wreck if anybody wants to see one.
I always keep an eye on the competition but keep running back to NB for the
nice productivity features.
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:29 John Leon <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to
> me
> >
> >
> Funnily enough just been doing exactly that for Praxis LIVE (image at
> https://twitter.com/PraxisLIVE/status/984810937159995392 ), and making it
> a
> bit more responsive to --fontsize. Definitely be interested in helping out
> with this.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:29 John Leon <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to me
>
>
Funnily enough just been doing exactly that for Praxis LIVE (image at
https://twitter.com/PraxisLIVE/status/984810937159995392 ), and making it a
bit more responsive to --fontsize. Definitely be interested in helping out
with this.
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by John Leon <jo...@gmail.com>.
I have been compiling a list myself of things I wanted to improve with
NetBeans as a relatively new user. I'll share them here, but I will also
keep an eye out for the Wiki page that Wade is going to make and try to
contribute there. Here are some of the examples I had in my list:
- The Wizard dialog is always too small and I have to resize the window
to read everything. I want to make it remember the size of the last Wizard
window. (This was going to be my first real plugin attempt)
- The Project Groups menu item should have a sub-menu listing project
groups in addition to the existing dialog window. This would allow someone
to go File->Project Groups->My Project X directly, and only open the
"project group manager" window if you need to add/modify groups. (Very
minor convenience improvement)
- Better 4k monitor support (right now requires fiddling with dpiaware
and font size, sometimes images are scaled and pixelated still)
- Can't run Windows command prompt in the Terminal
- Add more padding/borders to the Darcula L&F as it feels crowded to me
- With some L&F Some status bar/tooltips
- Right click a file/folder -> Open in Explorer (Think this is a
optional 3rd party plugin only currently)
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:
> Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but I
> can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was the go
> to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is not
> that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to open
> etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in
> different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
>
> So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans can
> handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the indexing
> Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to whatever,
> searching etc.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>
> Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
> as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing and
> performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s a
> preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to performance.
>
> Gj
>
> On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
> > geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
> > Apache,
> > > this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
> > > deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
> > this
> > > and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I
> > am
> > > able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list
> and
> > > we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
> > >
> >
> > +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more of
> > the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
> > "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
> >
> > My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some
> things,
> > and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
> > performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
> > actions.
> >
> > I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
> > versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really
> be a
> > bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
> > executions work in one side, but not the other.
> >
> > So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
> > years with such issues in other environments.
> >
> > I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I
> must
> > get ready for CodeStock!
> >
> > Wade
> >
>
>
AW: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Some other People say that, better indexing with NB over IntelliJ but I can say sometimes yes and sometimes not. I can say what I tested was the go to file and this is often clunky in NetBeans or the quick search is not that fast over intelliJ and and and. Open Options Needs some MS to open etc. So I can say that the Performance of IntelliJ is way better in different cases than in NetBeans. I will add some comparisions too.
So NetBeans is my full enviroment for almost everything what NetBeans can handle for hopefully for more in the future and yes I can feel the indexing Problem too, what Wade mentioned. For Code completion, for go to whatever, searching etc.
Cheers
Chris
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 20. April 2018 13:56
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with the
code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing and
performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s a
preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to performance.
Gj
On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
> Apache,
> > this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
> > deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
> this
> > and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I
> am
> > able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list and
> > we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
> >
>
> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more of
> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>
> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some things,
> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
> actions.
>
> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really be a
> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>
> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
> years with such issues in other environments.
>
> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I must
> get ready for CodeStock!
>
> Wade
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Deklunkification on indexing and performance levels can be done with the
code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
as well as gratitude for help in this area, while note that indexing and
performance have subjective aspects, e.g., even in this thread there’s a
preference expressed of NetBeans over IntelliJ in relation to performance.
Gj
On Friday, April 20, 2018, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in
> Apache,
> > this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
> > deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle
> this
> > and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I
> am
> > able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list and
> > we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
> >
>
> +1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more of
> the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
> "Deklunkification Taskforce"!
>
> My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some things,
> and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
> performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI
> actions.
>
> I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
> versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really be a
> bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
> executions work in one side, but not the other.
>
> So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
> years with such issues in other environments.
>
> I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I must
> get ready for CodeStock!
>
> Wade
>
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 04:49 Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in Apache,
> this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
> deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle this
> and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I am
> able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list and
> we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
>
+1 this has been my goal with the move to Apache, and once we get more of
the other bits over plan to try to tackle much of it. I love
"Deklunkification Taskforce"!
My biggest item I plan to look at is the indexing which blocks some things,
and impacts performance. It is really as far as I can tell the main
performance difference as it has impacts on the editor and other UI actions.
I much more prefer the integration of NB with the tools project support
versus rolling our own. The classpath and build differences can really be a
bear sometimes when having differences between the two, and builds or
executions work in one side, but not the other.
So, I find this a strength of NB, as I have helped team members over the
years with such issues in other environments.
I will create a page in the Wiki later if nobody else has; right now I must
get ready for CodeStock!
Wade
Re: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Deklunkifyng NetBeans was never a big goal in Oracle though now, in Apache,
this really seems a doable target and one we can work on together. Many
deklunkification tasks are probably quite trivial. How best to tackle this
and who will take the lead in beginning to list these? Any deklunking I am
able to implement I will implement, just provide a very specific list and
we’ll form a NetBeans deklunking taskforce.
Gj
On Friday, April 20, 2018, cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
>
> The final point I'm sure you already know: our UI is a lot more klunky
> than theirs. I don't mean that their IDE is "better looking" but rather
> that we have many long-standing UI bugs that are simply not present on
> their end (clashing foreground/background colors making text hard to read,
> viewport whose default size is too small, etc).
>
> Anyway, that's it for now. I hope it helps.
>
> Gili
>